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Damage is just way too high


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Too much passive aoe and condi builds non existent minus brainless scourge. Power attacks are dealing 3x more damage INSTANTLY when compared to a condi attack doing it's damage over it's entire duration, which just gets removed passively anyway.

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Game needs more iteration from Anet devs, still don’t forget high damage output will help players stay due the high numbers placebo on screen.

A lot of mechanics in this game feel it’s from a beta state game.Pvp also needs more map types than node control.

6 years of that... gets old way to fast it doesn’t help.

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@Aeolus.3615 said:

Pvp also needs more map types than node control.

6 years of that... gets old way to fast it doesn’t help.

oh well, they failed miserably with the mobalike mechanics.

I think node control is fine, but all of em being a v5. -.-

But I kinda see the reason they keep it this way.

Having a v1 match will make one stronger duelist rise as the complaint s about on forums

Having v2s, we already seeing the nerf fb/scourge now, imagine with a v2 arena.

Lets say a v8, dmg balance here would definitely be a problem.

they're already having issues balancing a 7 years old mode, imagine adding new ones.

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It's easy to say that damage is too high across the board, and indeed the meta is very bursty, but if damage is really nerfed across the board, then a lot of either things would have to be reduced aswell. Not just bunkerishness of Scrapper, sustain and support on FB, but also res cheese like Blood Nec, Scrapper Gyro or Signet of Mercy. The mobility creep is also real, barely any teamfight is done without port engages.

It's always easy to say nerf "X, Y and Z" but the overall picture is a lot more complicated, because you will automatically promote hitherto second tier builds to a new overperforming top tier if you seriously gut all meta builds. It's not that hard to imagine to have builds like Reaper or Power Chrono (both very high dps build) dominating when you completely gut Rev, Holo, FB, Scourge and Soulbeast for example.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:Be careful with that. specify exactly who is too high or else we will very quickly return to bunker meta.

Please specify classes that are overperforming and why, so that we dont get blanket reductions and return to what killed ~~GW2 esports. ~~ pvp that time when people were interested.

"The middle" is ideal, yes, but damage output can scale based on how telegraphed/risky it is to deliver.

Like how Firegrab was designed... slow and hard hitting but now its just slow.

It's got a 2.8 power modifier against burning foes which is very strong for a 3/4 second cast. Even 1.75 to non burning is the same as ranger maul (no sic 'em though). Then there is quantum strike with an absurd 3.9 modifier on a 3/4 sec cast and no prerequisite for the damage, this would be heavily nerfed on any other class. The thing is though, ele baseline defenses are just way too garbage so they all run around with an extremely defensive trait setups and a healing amulet thinking their damage is tash when it would be top tier if they wouldn't get smooshed so easily when they actually build for DPS. The low hp classes need base hp brought up to 14k as 11k is way too susceptible to spike, ele needs larger base heals with lower scaling to be able to move away from healing power amulets viably. Then reducing Weaver attunement cd by 1 sec would allow faster transitions between offense and defense.

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@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:Be careful with that. specify exactly who is too high or else we will very quickly return to bunker meta.

Please specify classes that are overperforming and why, so that we dont get blanket reductions and return to what killed ~~GW2 esports. ~~ pvp that time when people were interested.

"The middle" is ideal, yes, but damage output can scale based on how telegraphed/risky it is to deliver.

Like how Firegrab was designed... slow and hard hitting but now its just slow.

It's got a 2.8 power modifier against burning foes which is very strong for a 3/4 second cast. Even 1.75 to non burning is the same as ranger maul (no sic 'em though). Then there is quantum strike with an absurd 3.9 modifier on a 3/4 sec cast and no prerequisite for the damage, this would be heavily nerfed on any other class. The thing is though, ele baseline defenses are just way too garbage so they all run around with an extremely defensive trait setups and a healing amulet thinking their damage is tash when it would be top tier if they wouldn't get smooshed so easily when they actually build for DPS. The low hp classes need base hp brought up to 14k as 11k is way too susceptible to spike, ele needs larger base heals with lower scaling to be able to move away from healing power amulets viably. Then reducing Weaver attunement cd by 1 sec would allow faster transitions between offense and defense.

Im a Tempest main and I agree with your concept but can't I have a bit of fun and poke at my class?

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@"Falan.1839" said:It's easy to say that damage is too high across the board, and indeed the meta is very bursty, but if damage is really nerfed across the board, then a lot of either things would have to be reduced aswell. Not just bunkerishness of Scrapper, sustain and support on FB, but also res cheese like Blood Nec, Scrapper Gyro or Signet of Mercy. The mobility creep is also real, barely any teamfight is done without port engages.

It's always easy to say nerf "X, Y and Z" but the overall picture is a lot more complicated, because you will automatically promote hitherto second tier builds to a new overperforming top tier if you seriously gut all meta builds. It's not that hard to imagine to have builds like Reaper or Power Chrono (both very high dps build) dominating when you completely gut Rev, Holo, FB, Scourge and Soulbeast for example.

Don't "gut all meta builds." Reign them in so that they're on par with the "second tier". Similarly, pull under performers up.

In a perfect world, there would be only one tier and everything would be unique but equally viable. Of course, we don't live in a perfect world, and never will, but that's still the place to strive for.

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Needless to say that one-shooting is not as fun as "3-5-shooting" - if to compare with EVE online - its frigate PVP vs battleship PVP.The more HP buffer players have the more interesting the engagements - simply because its more 'space' to build longer action sequences and roll back if a tactical mistake was made.Yes, instant deaths can be outplayed by player's awareness in most cases but overall feel of squishiness is omnipresent (unless one use dedicated tank buld).So, +1 to do something with damage/HP pool or smth.

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I tend to agree with the OP.TTK just always felt a little too fast in this game's PvP for me. I think that mainly comes from the fact that some burst combos just do what feels like an extraordinary amount of damage for the HP pools we have. I've often thought that increasing HP, decreasing damage, or some combination of both so that the fastest TTK on a Glass Cannon vs another Glass cannon should at least allow for enough reaction time to pop a ccbreak and use a heal skill and potentially drag it out to another rotation instead of just going poof would help tremendously.

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Truth be told, the damage is as high as the damage mitigation is.

Reality is that when a glass canon encounter a bunker he come here to complain about the bunker being to resilient (scisor complaining about rock), when a support or another glass canon encounter a glass canon they come here to say that damage is to high (Paper and scisor complaining about scisor).

Players want builds that excel at everything and ultimately ANet ended up giving so many boons and "soft" conditions (debuff) for free that it is what we have right now. If there is a problem it's just that, not the damages in themself. Scisor have the right to exist, just like rock and paper, there is no point in asking ANet to send both scisor and rock in the well in order for paper to only have to cover the well and be the last one standing.

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@"Edge.8724" said:I just played a few PvP matches after a long time in PvE and I'm not sure what to think. Once we are in a fight, it ends in like what, 1 or 2 seconds? Simply put, everyone deals too much damage.

There is no place to react, it's just a race of who will burst who the fastest way possible.

Now I know there are some "bunker" builds too but these are the other extreme and isn't healthy neither. (I rarely see those though...)

Why not beeing in the middle? I mean some reasonable fight duration. I can't see how this can be fun to always be "insta killed" without having any time to react.

If damage wasn't high, then people would never die. It would be the bunker meta where you win a match at time limit 30-27

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@Rehk.6574 said:I tend to agree with the OP.TTK just always felt a little too fast in this game's PvP for me. I think that mainly comes from the fact that some burst combos just do what feels like an extraordinary amount of damage for the HP pools we have. I've often thought that increasing HP, decreasing damage, or some combination of both so that the fastest TTK on a Glass Cannon vs another Glass cannon should at least allow for enough reaction time to pop a ccbreak and use a heal skill and potentially drag it out to another rotation instead of just going poof would help tremendously.

so you think someone should be able to run a glass build, and be able to face tank multiple 3-5 second bursts from another glass class?

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@Rehk.6574 said:I tend to agree with the OP.TTK just always felt a little too fast in this game's PvP for me. I think that mainly comes from the fact that some burst combos just do what feels like an extraordinary amount of damage for the HP pools we have. I've often thought that increasing HP, decreasing damage, or some combination of both so that the fastest TTK on a Glass Cannon vs another Glass cannon should at least allow for enough reaction time to pop a ccbreak and use a heal skill and potentially drag it out to another rotation instead of just going poof would help tremendously.

Damage is tuned for raid bosses who have hp beyond what a player has. Anet for whatever reason has kept damage roughly the same for pvp.

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OP, you are right. Damage is absurdly high. You can thank post-HoT powercreep for that. Honestly, it's the WORST thing that's happened to pvp. It used to be a lot more enjoyable in the pre-HoT days. Damage and sustain wasn't so stupid like it is today. Today it's just spam, spam, spam, it's ridiculous.

Honestly, how can people enjoy this? When I can get on my Berserker and two-shot almost an entire team with Arc Divider...there's a problem! Sorry, but this ain't 'fun'. I hate it. Just nerf everything to the ground and make this playable so actual SKILL can take place.

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@Faux Play.6104 said:

@"Rehk.6574" said:I tend to agree with the OP.TTK just always felt a little too fast in this game's PvP for me. I think that mainly comes from the fact that some burst combos just do what feels like an extraordinary amount of damage for the HP pools we have. I've often thought that increasing HP, decreasing damage, or some combination of both so that the fastest TTK on a Glass Cannon vs another Glass cannon should at least allow for enough reaction time to pop a ccbreak and use a heal skill and potentially drag it out to another rotation instead of just going poof would help tremendously.

so you think someone should be able to run a glass build, and be able to face tank multiple 3-5 second bursts from another glass class?

Not exactly. I wish one glass build would be able to kill another in 3-5 seconds if they don't react, and at minimum 6-10 if they do react at least reasonably effectively. I'd prefer any 1v1 matchup to be a little more of a thinking man's game where you outsmart and outplay the enemy to win, not just land a lucky burst and it's simply over before it (any type of player against player competition) begins. I just don't find any fight in which the enemy (or I) is over without so much as any time to react....fun.

Of course my opinion on what's "best" has been shaped by games that don't really share a similar combat system, but all I can say is that my best PvP experiences were from games with a slower pace (DAoC, WAR, certain periods of WoW, Wildstar, certain periods of ESO, FF, etc).

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@Rehk.6574 said:

@Rehk.6574 said:I tend to agree with the OP.TTK just always felt a little too fast in this game's PvP for me. I think that mainly comes from the fact that some burst combos just do what feels like an extraordinary amount of damage for the HP pools we have. I've often thought that increasing HP, decreasing damage, or some combination of both so that the fastest TTK on a Glass Cannon vs another Glass cannon should at least allow for enough reaction time to pop a ccbreak and use a heal skill and potentially drag it out to another rotation instead of just going poof would help tremendously.

so you think someone should be able to run a glass build, and be able to face tank multiple 3-5 second bursts from another glass class?

Not exactly. I wish one glass build would be able to kill another in 3-5 seconds if they don't react, and at minimum 6-10 if they do react at least reasonably effectively. I'd prefer any 1v1 matchup to be a little more of a thinking man's game where you outsmart and outplay the enemy to win, not just land a lucky burst and it's simply over before it (any type of player against player competition) begins. I just don't find any fight in which the enemy (or I) is over without so much as any time to react....fun.

Of course my opinion on what's "best" has been shaped by games that don't really share a similar combat system, but all I can say is that my best PvP experiences were from games with a slower pace (DAoC, WAR, certain periods of WoW, Wildstar, certain periods of ESO, FF, etc).

Yeah, it's gotten way too fast-paced. I like the thinking man's game approach. Although I'll increase your baseline glass cannon burst to 5 seconds!

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@JTGuevara.9018 said:

@Rehk.6574 said:I tend to agree with the OP.TTK just always felt a little too fast in this game's PvP for me. I think that mainly comes from the fact that some burst combos just do what feels like an extraordinary amount of damage for the HP pools we have. I've often thought that increasing HP, decreasing damage, or some combination of both so that the fastest TTK on a Glass Cannon vs another Glass cannon should at least allow for enough reaction time to pop a ccbreak and use a heal skill and potentially drag it out to another rotation instead of just going poof would help tremendously.

so you think someone should be able to run a glass build, and be able to face tank multiple 3-5 second bursts from another glass class?

Not exactly. I wish one glass build would be able to kill another in 3-5 seconds if they don't react, and at minimum 6-10 if they do react at least reasonably effectively. I'd prefer any 1v1 matchup to be a little more of a thinking man's game where you outsmart and outplay the enemy to win, not just land a lucky burst and it's simply over before it (any type of player against player competition) begins. I just don't find any fight in which the enemy (or I) is over without so much as any time to react....fun.

Of course my opinion on what's "best" has been shaped by games that don't really share a similar combat system, but all I can say is that my best PvP experiences were from games with a slower pace (DAoC, WAR, certain periods of WoW, Wildstar, certain periods of ESO, FF, etc).

Yeah, it's gotten way too fast-paced. I like the thinking man's game approach. Although I'll increase your baseline glass cannon burst to 5 seconds!

I don't think you realize how much every single damage skill of every single weapon (and damage dealing utilities) of every single class would have to be nerfed in order for no builds to be able to kill an afk berserker ele in less than 5 seconds.

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Time to Live(TTL) was never a consideration in this game by the developers, other companies have obvious solutions. But it would require a huge amount of code and testing, something Anet is obviously not interested in doing. It seems most of their efforts are towards their cash shop and living world episodes which also boost their cash shop. I give you an example, some games have implemented pvp specific stats, ie. resilience for world of warcraft, toughness for games like Rift. Gw2 has no pvp stat to mitigate pve skill damage from players. Which is why I've stayed away from pvp, its stun->dead, all in less than two seconds. Its not fun, and quite silly actually, but it'll come down to the developers to implement specific core stats for pvp that will separate it from pve.

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Anyone calling for any specific class to be nerfed to adjust TTL has never played games with core pvp stats that separate pve from pvp, if you want pvp to be adjusted for the better, then start a petition calling for core pvp stats. Obviously this will require a whole new set of armor/weapons to be implemented in the game for players to acquire, and force a ton of work onto the developers, but if this issue wont ever be addressed, then you'll know the dev's treat pvp as an after thought.

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