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Im not even bother going through your text wall, there is a reason meta builds are meta, and it's because they perform better in almost any environment and with any player, low or high skilled.

Game is not blocking from play whichever build you want, just play the builds you have fun and if the build is viable you can even climb to high plat as we still seeing eles up in the ranks

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@Khalisto.5780 said:Im not even bother going through your text wall, there is a reason meta builds are meta, and it's because they perform better in almost any environment and with any player, low or high skilled.

Game is not blocking from play whichever build you want, just play the builds you have fun and if the build is viable you can even climb to high plat as we still seeing eles up in the ranks

There are lots of other builds to be discovered. Many gw2 players lack innovation and are just followers. Its funny because gw1 was quite the opposite in many ways.

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@Khalisto.5780 said:Im not even bother going through your text wall, there is a reason meta builds are meta, and it's because they perform better in almost any environment and with any player, low or high skilled.

Game is not blocking from play whichever build you want, just play the builds you have fun and if the build is viable you can even climb to high plat as we still seeing eles up in the ranks

Also to interprete what you are saying here.This is what you just said

''I don't care what you've got to say on this matter the majority thinks meta is good so meta is good. You can try playing whatever you can but you will probably not succeed since you dont run meta.''

Just read what you wrote and compare it. This is a good example of why I made this thread. Ppl thoughtlessly defending meta cuz it is gods gift to GW2 ppl

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@Jack Redline.5379

Meta builds were not CREATED by a few stuck-up pvpers having a God complex, and deciding what is best for all of us.

Meta builds were DISCOVERED by these pvpers. These people spend all their time doing pvp. They know a thing or two about what works and what doesn't work in an environment where you have a defined goal to meet. Through experience, these players discovered what the most effective builds are, through a combination of educated guessing plus trial & error.

The meta-build websites like Metabattle keep track of these builds, not for the purpose of rating which ones are or are not fun, but to rather to account for which ones are the most effective at fitting into a team of 5 for a conquest game mode and winning.

I realized this long ago... this game doesn't have infinite possibilities (or even an extremely large number) in terms of builds. Some builds on some classes just work so well, they outshine all other possible builds on that class. You can improve your personal and mechanical skills, and you can improve your pvp/map/rotational knowledge, but after that, this game is build-wars 2 with maybe one or two dozen builds you can really win on.

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@Aza.2105 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:Im not even bother going through your text wall, there is a reason meta builds are meta, and it's because they perform better in almost any environment and with any player, low or high skilled.

Game is not blocking from play whichever build you want, just play the builds you have fun and if the build is viable you can even climb to high plat as we still seeing eles up in the ranks

There are lots of other builds to be discovered. Many gw2 players lack innovation and are just followers. Its funny because gw1 was quite the opposite in many ways.

game is 7 years old now, I don't think there're a lot of build to be discovered, most viable things were already in meta once, they come and go as the patches come out, making them more or less viable. I've never played gw1, but from what I know the game had a ton of more options than gw2.

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@Khalisto.5780 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:Im not even bother going through your text wall, there is a reason meta builds are meta, and it's because they perform better in almost any environment and with any player, low or high skilled.

Game is not blocking from play whichever build you want, just play the builds you have fun and if the build is viable you can even climb to high plat as we still seeing eles up in the ranks

There are lots of other builds to be discovered. Many gw2 players lack innovation and are just followers. Its funny because gw1 was quite the opposite in many ways.

game is 7 years old now, I don't think there're a lot of build to be discovered, most viable things were already in meta once, they come and go as the patches come out, making them more or less viable. I've never played gw1, but from what I know the game had a ton of more options than gw2.

No there is. The problem is the crowd has been roughly the same for 7 years. Before metabattle there was "following my favorite gw2 streamer". Because you know if he/she says its good then it must be! Gw1 community embraced build making, creating counters to the meta. While the gw2 community just sits on their butt crying how strong the meta is when there are tools to shut meta down. They just don't use them. In gw1 when a team knew that they were going to be up against a certain group build then they would make a build to counter it and win. Gw2? The players run the same meta to defeat the meta and complain when they lose.

If you notice Anet balance patch notes, they tend to buff under used skills so that players will start to use them. It never happens usually though, players will glance over the notes then pretend like the buffs never happened UNTIL it appears on meta or they find out some top player is using it. Then it becomes known. Like I said, gw2 players lack innovation. It could be that this is a different generation of players than those from gw1, so they just want premade stuff.

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@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:Im not even bother going through your text wall, there is a reason meta builds are meta, and it's because they perform better in almost any environment and with any player, low or high skilled.

Game is not blocking from play whichever build you want, just play the builds you have fun and if the build is viable you can even climb to high plat as we still seeing eles up in the ranks

Also to interprete what you are saying here.This is what you just said

''I don't care what you've got to say on this matter the majority thinks meta is good so meta is good. You can try playing whatever you can but you will probably not succeed since you dont run meta.''

Just read what you wrote and compare it. This is a good example of why I made this thread. Ppl thoughtlessly defending meta cuz it is gods gift to GW2 ppl

To gw2 and all other games out there, let me now if you find a game perfectly balance.

Doesnt matter how balanced a game is, something will always be at least 1% better than another and this 1% will make the difference in the highest level gameplay and then someone will always complain about it

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And people still don't understand that meta builds will always exist.

You can balance the game even 1000 times, there will be always that 5-10 builds which will be stronger and effective to use over others.

The problem are not meta builds themselves, the problem is how a completely retard player can pick up holo or warrior or boonbeast, or duo fb-scourge or whatever and reach at least low plat with zero to little effort with just few days using the profession, the skill level to play certain build and specs is lower and lower every expansion, remember when core engi had to use multiple kits and over 30 skills comboed to be effective, look engi now, both scrapper and holo just press 2 or 3 godmode keys off cooldown and they are good to go.

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@Aza.2105 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:Im not even bother going through your text wall, there is a reason meta builds are meta, and it's because they perform better in almost any environment and with any player, low or high skilled.

Game is not blocking from play whichever build you want, just play the builds you have fun and if the build is viable you can even climb to high plat as we still seeing eles up in the ranks

There are lots of other builds to be discovered. Many gw2 players lack innovation and are just followers. Its funny because gw1 was quite the opposite in many ways.

game is 7 years old now, I don't think there're a lot of build to be discovered, most viable things were already in meta once, they come and go as the patches come out, making them more or less viable. I've never played gw1, but from what I know the game had a ton of more options than gw2.

No there is. The problem is the crowd has been roughly the same for 7 years. Before metabattle there was "following my favorite gw2 streamer". Because you know if he/she says its good then it must be! Gw1 community embraced build making, creating counters to the meta. While the gw2 community just sits on their butt crying how strong the meta is when there are tools to shut meta down. They just don't use them. In gw1 when a team knew that they were going to be up against a certain group build then they would make a build to counter it and win. Gw2? The players run the same meta to defeat the meta and complain when they lose.

If you notice Anet balance patch notes, they tend to buff under used skills so that players will start to use them. It never happens usually though, players will glance over the notes then pretend like the buffs never happened UNTIL it appears on meta or they find out some top player is using it. Then it becomes known. Like I said, gw2 players lack innovation. It could be that this is a different generation of players than those from gw1, so they just want premade stuff.

So, why don't you do it yourself, community would be glad if you could find something that beats scrapper with certain ease and still be viable in the other aspects , not something that beat scrapper and dies to everything else.

Meta evolves but not at the speed you want maybe, seasons ago the defense warrior was the strongest warrior build, than came the tether and now the strenght dagger, shortly after that the current boonbeast was posted in the forums, the build quickly became popular and had its rise and fall.

If you can come up with something new and consistently perform top 100 ppl might listen to you.

I think it's naive to think the higher ranks play the builds they play because they are told to, I think they test a lot of things and when they compare to what's in the table it's not as good, and if it's it'll take sometime to get popular. And then you can't expect a counter to this new build withing 2 days.

I have a mesmer build that can almost perma reflect projectiles, it's great against DE and rangers but it's worse than any mesmer condi duel builds for every other match up.

There're bigger games like dota and lol, and there's still a meta in this game, even with a fully commited team to be always trying to nerf the current meta or making a new meta. So far I haven't heard of a game perfectly balanced, talking about mmo, which most of resources are focused in pve, it's an even worst case.

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@whoknocks.4935 said:And people still don't understand that meta builds will always exist.

You can balance the game even 1000 times, there will be always that 5-10 builds which will be stronger and effective to use over others.

The problem are not meta builds themselves, the problem is how a completely kitten player can pick up holo or warrior or boonbeast, or duo fb-scourge or whatever and reach at least low plat with zero to little effort with just few days using the profession, the skill level to play certain build and specs is lower and lower every expansion, remember when core engi had to use multiple kits and over 30 skills comboed to be effective, look engi now, both scrapper and holo just press 2 or 3 godmode keys off cooldown and they are good to go.

ppl refuse to accept that

They either want to randomly pick up their weapons, skills and traits and be equally effective as a well thought build or their favorite class/spec is not in the meta and they come to forums to QQ, or their build are in the meta and get nerf and then they come to forums to QQ

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@whoknocks.4935 said:And people still don't understand that meta builds will always exist.

but i am not arguing that some builds are better or not I am saying that the community simply inclines so bad on the fact that they already have top 9 builds served to their hands it is killing room for any other creativity and discovering and that it creates toxic and salty surroundings for new and old players who just might want to see if there is other wayNot to metion that the Meta ppl follow now is not bullet proof and it is counterable by off meta builds

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@Khalisto.5780 said:

ppl refuse to accept that

They either want to randomly pick up their weapons, skills and traits and be equally effective as a well thought build or their favorite class/spec is not in the meta and they come to forums to QQ, or their build are in the meta and get nerf and then they come to forums to QQ

AGAIN I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BUILD EFFICIENCY HEREI am talking about the fact that the community is so inclined to THE META that they are toxic and salty to anyone who thinks otherwise not to mention that THE META is no flawless and is counterably by off meta builds that are looked down upon thanks to the communities way of thinking that Meta is is the gods gift to the world

THE TITLE IS META OBSCESSION

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@"Jack Redline.5379" said:IF i had a peny for each time I hear in duel Arena Spellbreaker or Herald or other Thief or even Rangers to tell me : "You are running Condi? Why that is not the meta. Swap to s/d." cuz i ran them over 5 times in a row on my condi build cuz they ran Meta build that is meant to deal with power dmg not condi dmg I would be a milionaire.

Man, youre playing condi teef? Where have you lost your dignity...

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@Khalisto.5780 said:So, why don't you do it yourself, community would be glad if you could find something that beats scrapper with certain ease and still be viable in the other aspects , not something that beat scrapper and dies to everything else.

Thats because there is no point. The community isn't receptive to build crafting.

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@whoknocks.4935 said:And people still don't understand that meta builds will always exist.

You can balance the game even 1000 times, there will be always that 5-10 builds which will be stronger and effective to use over others.

The problem are not meta builds themselves, the problem is how a completely kitten player can pick up holo or warrior or boonbeast, or duo fb-scourge or whatever and reach at least low plat with zero to little effort with just few days using the profession, the skill level to play certain build and specs is lower and lower every expansion, remember when core engi had to use multiple kits and over 30 skills comboed to be effective, look engi now, both scrapper and holo just press 2 or 3 godmode keys off cooldown and they are good to go.

This^Classes in this game that have a higher skill ceiling and require more skill and practice to be effective on the same level of a low skill ceiling class get zero reward considering how much more punished ur mistakes are.In gw2 a face roll sustain filled class gets same mobility, burst or over all dps than classes that have less sustain or have to rely on a active style of sustain to stay alive. Then u have classes that are great at one thing but nerfed everywhere because it's great at one thing while other classes like holo as an example are just great at almost everything. The balance disparity between classes is soo bad right now.

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@Widmo.3186 said:

@"Jack Redline.5379" said:IF i had a peny for each time I hear in duel Arena Spellbreaker or Herald or other Thief or even Rangers to tell me : "You are running Condi? Why that is not the meta. Swap to s/d." cuz i ran them over 5 times in a row on my condi build cuz they ran Meta build that is meant to deal with power dmg not condi dmg I would be a milionaire.

Man, youre playing condi teef? Where have you lost your dignity...

OH playing condi thief is undignified? xD 1st of all I dont play just some what kind of thief I play a Trapper2nd at this point of a game you got exactly 0 validity to say palying condi thief is undignified since everything is either bunker tank or one hit kill switch

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@"dominik.9721" said:meta builds are not only good against meta builds, like kitten do you even talk.meta builds faceroll any non meta builds, which is the reason they are meta - meta is what is the best / most effective.

if you play meta you are able to compete with other meta builds, if you play non meta, you are in a disadvantage - simple as that.

If you think Meta is "what is best and most effective", then consider this; for about a year in PvP, players went for stacking bleed over burning because we all thought that getting that sweet 25 stack was the way to go, we didn't realize at the time that burn was just 100% better simply because it has no wind up time. You technically just apply 6 stacks of bleed instantly when you apply a burn (this is before condi changes that make them what we see today).

Then the meta changed and became; focus on burning and then cover the burn with crappy condis.

Meta isn't what is definitely the best, meta is what people THINK is definitely the best.

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Still hilarious to see all these gold players saying how op their builds are yet they are still... Stuck in G O L D. Or how many OP hidden builds that people haven't theorycrafted YET but theres so many!

"spellbreaker isnt rly top notch to be used as an example here even a berserker is more dangerous now"

Man I swear do you guys actually believe all that you are saying? It is delusional at its finest

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