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Ranger changes May 28th (Shouts)


Dragana.1497

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Rangers' shouts have always been significantly different from what standard shouts are, as they've largely been focused on interplay with your pet rather than bolstering your allies. As such, ranger shout skills have been reclassified as command skills rather than shout skills. They're keeping their voice callouts and all their pre-existing functionality, but they won't be affected by the Rune of the Trooper or Rune of the Reaper.

  • Resounding Timbre: This trait now affects command skills rather than shout skills.
  • Entangle: Fixed a bug that caused this skill to inflict vulnerability and display a lower immobilization than intended. Entangle will correctly display its 2 seconds per pulse immobilization duration, and it will no longer inflict vulnerability.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/77925/game-update-notes-may-28-2019#latest

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I have a feeling "Commands" are going to be a type of skill for an espec or they want to give rangers shouts... but either way it'd be nice if we could for the love of god get a Resounding Timbre nerf reversal in PvP now that they don't even have the potential to clear conditions.

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I used Runes of the Trooper specifically with my Ranger because of his shouts. You've now removed that functionality. What compensation does my character get for an unanticipated core change? You already made runes so much more expensive to craft. I'm very upset.

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@matthewr.3980 said:Rangers should at least get a trait that offers the same functionality of condition removal on shout/command skill use.

I don't think they should, that ability came from a rune set in the first place, why would we get an extra benefit out of this change when the other classes don't? It's not like we do not have better condi cleanses ourselves as rangers or anything. Would agree with some new rune that interacts with said new command skill type, but i get the feeling that this change was not only due to making sense when it comes to its type name but also due to future content ahead like the next elite specs.

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@"Sandzibar.5134" said:kitten is a command skill?

the link on the wiki for resounding timber for commands goes to a number of guardian skills.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resounding_Timbre

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Command

It’s a new skill type they’re adding. Currently only exists on rangers. Wiki has not been updated yet because the patch dropped like an hour ago.

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@Eurantien.4632 said:Noooooooooooo!!!!!! What the kitten. How the hell are we supposed to Condi clear without Wilderness Survival!?!! Idiots.

RIP diversity. Now we are all pidgeon-holed into Wilderness Survival even more. kitten that broken traitline. (For PvP).

What's scarier is that this change very likely is not a change that is just happening out of the blue, and Ranger changes are very rarely ever good changes.

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@AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:So everyone complaining about losing a synergy that removes a singular condition on a shout, forgetting things such as bear stance, healing spring, Druid clear, weapon swap sigils, resistance from pets, all on top on wilderness survival synergy?

For PvP Druid isn't viable. Core isn't really viable. Because the pet dies too easily with the amount of damage in the game (especially with the stat nerf on Druid). The problem is build diversity and viability. To be viable we need some Condi clear, you can't have none and expect to be in plat 2 or maybe even play 1. That means we can run what you say or wilderness survival. This is where diversity comes into play too...

If I run wilderness survival, I get Condi clear and survival skills and get rugged growth and arguably rangers best heal, troll ungüent, due to the sustain it gives. The sustain from WS is amazing.

On the other hand, If i want to run without survival skills and WS. Then I have bear stance, healing spring, evasive purity, or something like leadership runes, and signet of renewal.

These two heals simply do not provide enough healing to sustain in the current game with the amount of damages out there. If I need to save my heal for Condi clear... i am in trouble. That means If i want to sustain and use these heals? I need WS for rugged growth... which nullifies the point in using these heals. +healing spring doesn't cleanse fast enough. A scourge can insta put 4 condis on you, now what? You cant afford to stay in that area in your spring in PvP.

Runes and signet of renewal? Both have too high cool downs (60s) to be able to be effective for Condi clear. There just too much reapplication for that to be viable. + signet of renewal can easily fail, or fuck up your merge and unmerge since it doesn't work while merged.

Evasive purity? Not enough.

Why is this a big deal? Shouts gave just enough reactive Condi clear that you could get by. It wasn't optimal but it was viable. Something that these other cleanses just aren't.

What this means?Now for PvP we have to run soulbeast. We have to run wilderness survival. Then what? The next traitline with the most synergy is beastmastery. We now have one build. With shouts... we could at least run MM or NM instead of WS.

So that's the problem. Changing this kills build diversity because other cleanse skills arent good enough to compensate for this change. We should not be forced to run wilderness survival.

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@Eurantien.4632 said:

@AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:So everyone complaining about losing a synergy that removes a singular condition on a shout, forgetting things such as bear stance, healing spring, Druid clear, weapon swap sigils, resistance from pets, all on top on wilderness survival synergy?

For PvP Druid isn't viable. Core isn't really viable. Because the pet dies too easily with the amount of damage in the game (especially with the stat nerf on Druid). The problem is build diversity and viability. To be viable we need some Condi clear, you can't have none and expect to be in plat 2 or maybe even play 1. That means we can run what you say or wilderness survival. This is where diversity comes into play too...

If I run wilderness survival, I get Condi clear and survival skills and get rugged growth and arguably rangers best heal, troll ungüent, due to the sustain it gives. The sustain from WS is amazing.

On the other hand, If i want to run without survival skills and WS. Then I have bear stance, healing spring, evasive purity, or something like leadership runes, and signet of renewal.

These two heals simply do not provide enough healing to sustain in the current game with the amount of damages out there. If I need to save my heal for Condi clear... i am in trouble. That means If i want to sustain and use these heals? I need WS for rugged growth... which nullifies the point in using these heals. +healing spring doesn't cleanse fast enough. A scourge can insta put 4 condis on you, now what? You cant afford to stay in that area in your spring in PvP.

Runes and signet of renewal? Both have too high cool downs (60s) to be able to be effective for Condi clear. There just too much reapplication for that to be viable. + signet of renewal can easily fail, or kitten up your merge and unmerge since it doesn't work while merged.

Evasive purity? Not enough.

Why is this a big deal? Shouts gave just enough reactive Condi clear that you could get by. It wasn't optimal but it was viable. Something that these other cleanses just aren't.

What this means?Now for PvP we have to run soulbeast. We have to run wilderness survival. Then what? The next traitline with the most synergy is beastmastery. We now have one build. With shouts... we could at least run MM or NM instead of WS.

So that's the problem. Changing this kills build diversity because other cleanse skills arent good enough to compensate for this change. We should not be forced to run wilderness survival.

So you’re telling me a single rune build that allows you to cleanse one condition per skill is keeping these builds afloat? Really? I find this quite hard to believe.

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@AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

@AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:So everyone complaining about losing a synergy that removes a singular condition on a shout, forgetting things such as bear stance, healing spring, Druid clear, weapon swap sigils, resistance from pets, all on top on wilderness survival synergy?

For PvP Druid isn't viable. Core isn't really viable. Because the pet dies too easily with the amount of damage in the game (especially with the stat nerf on Druid). The problem is build diversity and viability. To be viable we need some Condi clear, you can't have none and expect to be in plat 2 or maybe even play 1. That means we can run what you say or wilderness survival. This is where diversity comes into play too...

If I run wilderness survival, I get Condi clear and survival skills and get rugged growth and arguably rangers best heal, troll ungüent, due to the sustain it gives. The sustain from WS is amazing.

On the other hand, If i want to run without survival skills and WS. Then I have bear stance, healing spring, evasive purity, or something like leadership runes, and signet of renewal.

These two heals simply do not provide enough healing to sustain in the current game with the amount of damages out there. If I need to save my heal for Condi clear... i am in trouble. That means If i want to sustain and use these heals? I need WS for rugged growth... which nullifies the point in using these heals. +healing spring doesn't cleanse fast enough. A scourge can insta put 4 condis on you, now what? You cant afford to stay in that area in your spring in PvP.

Runes and signet of renewal? Both have too high cool downs (60s) to be able to be effective for Condi clear. There just too much reapplication for that to be viable. + signet of renewal can easily fail, or kitten up your merge and unmerge since it doesn't work while merged.

Evasive purity? Not enough.

Why is this a big deal? Shouts gave just enough reactive Condi clear that you could get by. It wasn't optimal but it was viable. Something that these other cleanses just aren't.

What this means?Now for PvP we have to run soulbeast. We have to run wilderness survival. Then what? The next traitline with the most synergy is beastmastery. We now have one build. With shouts... we could at least run MM or NM instead of WS.

So that's the problem. Changing this kills build diversity because other cleanse skills arent good enough to compensate for this change. We should not be forced to run wilderness survival.

So you’re telling me a single rune build that allows you to cleanse
one
condition per skill is keeping these builds afloat? Really? I find this quite hard to believe.

Some of them, yes. Here's why, if I run heal, sic em, and protect me that is 3 condis cleared every about 24s. I also get my elite. If a random burn guard jumps me I can survive by actively reacting with a cleanse. If a reaper chills me, same thing. If a mesmer condi loads me up maybe I can cleanse the confusion or torment and live and get away. If i need to, i can spam all 3 or 4 depending on whats available to get the cleanse i need. It's not optimal for me to run shouts. But it can work because im trading a severe weakness to condis for more dmg by dropping WS. Without cleanse, any of these things and more would kill me. Sigils aren't enough. Runes for elite cleanse aren't enough. And like I said the other heal options aren't enough sustain. So dropping soldier rune for ranger makes anything with condis (even power classes) much more likely to kill me as even cripple becomes dangerous now.

I solo queued to rank 26 last season without WS... that would have been significantly harder and maybe even impossible without soldier runes.

Again, this worked because of a trade off. I dropped the amazing sustainability of WS for the extra damage of MM. Even then MM is still lackluster in comparison and something that can be bolstered with Sic Em and We Heal as One. Sic Em with the bonus damage that is pretty much meta for ranger atm and We Heal as One because of the might stacking - both of these adding even more damage to MM. On top of that, I was able to synergize well the with the utility of Protect Me and interrupt/CC traits. Nevertheless, these skills are a little lackluster (besides sic em) without these synergies. Their synergy with soldier runes (and that stats from soldier runes) helped make up for the deficit of giving up WS and their being weaker than survival skills.

I'll do what I can to see what I can make work... but this is a huge blow to diversity. And I'm extremely disappointed we are getting pigeon-holed even deeper than we already are into WS.

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Rangers' shouts have always been significantly different from what standard shouts are, as they've largely been focused on interplay with your pet rather than bolstering your allies. As such, ranger shout skills have been reclassified as command skills rather than shout skills.

Really, Anet? Even though the uniqueness of Ranger shouts were using the pet as part of supporting allies when Irenio went through the trouble of updating most of them to reflect this.

Search & Rescue sending the pet to revive allies, Protect Me also breaking stuns for nearby allies while redirecting an attacker's focus to alleviate pressure, and Guard using the pet to redirect a portion of damage off allies wasn't bolstering allies?

So, once again, instead of doing the right thing and putting in the work to revamp Strength of the Pack, Heal as One, and Sic 'Em to be in line with the design philosophy of bolstering allies while keeping the flavor of Ranger by incorporating the pet as part of delivering this support, you took the easy way out and re-categorized them while reducing build diversity.

By the way, Stance sharing is a thing. Let that sink it. Such kittens.

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