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Balance is terrible.I don't think mesmer are treated fairly


ZeteCommander.4937

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@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Believe what you want ... if you think Anet doesn't have a plan they are implementing based on what they want to do, then you don't really know much to begin with.

Chromomancer was designed to be a defensively orientated support spec. Mirage was designed to be a dps condition damage spec. DPS Chronomancer massively out performs Mirage in dps on 75% of the raid bosses and in 95% of other PvE situations. Power GS Chronomancer is also far more deadly and lethal than mirage variants in PvP as well. That probably wasn't planned.

Anet clearly has some overall philosophical goals. Like spellbreakers should be a top 1v1 spec. Necros and guardians of all stripes should excel in team fights. But if you don't think wackamole the over performing spec and community feedback has a driving factor in balance you don't know what you're talking about. Just look at how impactful the Jawgeous rant was. That video literally single handedly commit to reworking all traits that improve shatters to only improve one shatter which means heavily nerfed effectiveness overall like we see with the new Blinding Dissipation.

Edit: My post was originally made on a phone at work and was edited to be more clear in it's wording and intent.

This is where I think you go a little off ... Nothing suggests that SB's being a top 1 vs. 1 spec is an overall philosophical goal Anet has ... same goes for what you said about Necros, Guardians, etc... you're just making that inference and making that correlation without knowing it's true. It's when you impose you own ideas on what Anet is doing when you go wrong with your conclusions about why they did this or that.

As I said, when the community complains this much, they are bound to get it right once in a while. That's all you're seeing here. If Anet is so dedicated to creating a roadmap to changing the game because of players complaints ... how do you explain the current state of the game? That tells me that in the last 7 years that even though Anet is focused on developing classes based on addressing players complaints, they just can't do it. I know the reason why too ... What does that tell you about the value of using players complaints as a guideline for changing the game? It should tell you it's a waste of their time to try and chase all these diametrically opposing views of what the game should be.

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@"Obtena.7952" said:you're just making that inference and making that correlation without knowing it's true. It's when you impose you own ideas on what Anet is doing when you go wrong with your conclusions about why they did this or that.

It's astonishing to me that you understand that fact when someone else writes it, but at the same time you do the same thing in your own posts for the sake of pretending you have an argument. Obviously you ignore the posts that call you out on this, I'm really curious why you'd do something like that.

But yeah, even though Spb has solid pvp tools and could be seen as a pvp spec since the release, it still doesn't mean it necessarily "has to" be on the top of that mode.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Believe what you want ... if you think Anet doesn't have a plan they are implementing based on what they want to do, then you don't really know much to begin with.

Chromomancer was designed to be a defensively orientated support spec. Mirage was designed to be a dps condition damage spec. DPS Chronomancer massively out performs Mirage in dps on 75% of the raid bosses and in 95% of other PvE situations. Power GS Chronomancer is also far more deadly and lethal than mirage variants in PvP as well. That probably wasn't planned.

Anet clearly has some overall philosophical goals. Like spellbreakers should be a top 1v1 spec. Necros and guardians of all stripes should excel in team fights. But if you don't think wackamole the over performing spec and community feedback has a driving factor in balance you don't know what you're talking about. Just look at how impactful the Jawgeous rant was. That video literally single handedly commit to reworking all traits that improve shatters to only improve one shatter which means heavily nerfed effectiveness overall like we see with the new Blinding Dissipation.

Edit: My post was originally made on a phone at work and was edited to be more clear in it's wording and intent.

This is where I think you go a little off ... Nothing suggests that SB's being a top 1 vs. 1 spec is an overall philosophical goal Anet has ...

If you want to get technical Spellbreaker is explicitly designed to be an elite specialization that's both less offensive and more defensively orientated compared to standard warriors as well as extremely disruptive by canceling other profession's strengths such as eliminating their boons, conditions, stealth, projectiles, even their mobility, and is packing a a solid amount of interrupts. Which if you're going to emphasize A-Net's "vision" paints them as even bigger failures as all meta spellbreaker is at this point in Conquest is a 1vX build that ramps 25 might and chucks 10k crits out while having top tier mobility. The utilities and traits designed to cancel out other profession's strengths never lived up to their potential. Sometimes stuff like this pans out well design wise, sometimes it misses it's mark.

When Spellbreaker is perhaps the purest example of a 1vX duelist and has been for almost 2 years straight now. And when arenanet in their reasoning for class changes explicitly mention being happy with spellbreakers and how they're performing, it's pretty safe to say they want them largely 1vXing.

Or take mesmers. Since the beginning of the game mesmers have been defined by Portal in conquest. It was a staple of almost every meta since the start of the game for five years straight. Then during December when anger at Mirage reached a fevor pitch Arenanet finally truly hard hard nerfed Portal to the point of forcing mesmers to stop running it.

Maybe it really was a sudden change in philosophy about what mesmer PvP should be about. Or maybe the massive amount of feedback on the topic changed Arenanet's stance on the matter.

same goes for what you said about Necros, Guardians, etc... It's when you impose you own ideas on what Anet is doing when you go wrong with your conclusions about why they did this or that.

"Guardians gain powerful personal enhancements from their virtues, which they can briefly expend to aid friends or damage foes. Formidable on their own, guardians shine brightest in the company of allies."

"Necromancers of Tyria are monsters on the battlefield, draining life force from their enemies and entering a death shroud that temporarily grants them powerful abilities and protects them from harm."

"Mesmers are magical duelists who wield deception as a weapon. Using powerful illusions, clones, and phantasmal magic to confuse and distract their foes, mesmers make sure every fight is balanced in their favor and their opponents can’t believe their eyes."

"Engineers are jacks-of-all-trades and, with enough time, masters of many. Able to bring dozens of abilities and toolbelt skills to a fight, their art is in choosing the right one to utilize at the perfect time."

Literally the first thing you see in character creation about the class when you make a new character. It's literally the thesis statement is how they intend for the classes to operate. Arenanet is very upfront about what they intend the professions to focus on and be capable of.

As i said, when the community complains this much, they are bound to get it right once in a while. That's all you're seeing here. If Anet is so dedicated to changing the game because of players complaints ... how do you explain the current state of the game? You're telling me that in the last 7 years that even though Anet is focused on addressing players complaints, they just can't do it? What does that tell you about the value of using players complaints as a guideline for changing the game?

It tells me that, in their own words, "balance is a moving target" and that they know they have more work to do.

It's not 100% feedback or 100% developer vision with no player input what so ever. I mean Ben P literally hangs out in discords to get feedback directly from specific groups in the community. I don't think any amount of complaining will ever get Arenanet to hard nerf thief mobility and high evasion uptime ever. It's literally the defining point of the class as a whole. Arenanet clearly have a philosphical perspective on thieves being fragile but also having mobility, agility, evasion and stealth to disrupt and take down foes and no amount of player complaining is going to make Arenanet turn Thieves into the most survivable bunkers ever made, nor will you see them halve the range of Shadowstep and Infiltrator's Arrow. But player feedback might get something like Infiltrator's Strike looked at and it's range reduced to 600 potentially, which is something a number of members of the community have talked about since SD Thief became meta.

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@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:My necropinion on different shatters for different elites:

HELL NO.

Mesmers are difficult to deal with in pvp scenarios as is. Now among the sea of clones, phantasms, and blinks you expect me to take time figuring out which spec you are and which shatters to expect? When a necro uses shroud, you can see clear as day which spec he's running without any guesswork.

...You mean.....You still get confused as to what is or is not a clone?I wish I was stuck in 2012. Maybe I could invest in bitcoin before it exploded.On a serious note. If you still at this point in time can't tell what is a clone or phantasm and what isn't this is a you problem.Also a sea of blinks.....you mean the one blink.......A singular blink is too hard to manage I guess.Mesmers give 0 warnings regarding what shatter they are using already. When i see buncha clones run at me i don't know if they'll burst me to 0 health in 0.5s (hi legendary chronomancer in spvp arena), give me confusion stacks, daze me or make you invulnerable for 4s or so.

Most people see clones run to them and dodge. Though you being a necro can simply kill them with your AoE's.

You wouldn't happen to be an alt Account for Badmed?

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It's all hyperbole and double standards since RELEASE!

"Mesmer has perma evade, stealth, blocks and invulns!"

When in reality any medium armor class has access to FAR more on demand survivability cooldowns. Mirage in particular doesn't have any more survivability cooldowns including base dodges as any type of ranger meta build, while rangers still having strong passives and access to off meta weapons to grant them more.You want to talk about a cocktail of block, stealth, invulns, and such. How about engie? Who on top of it has one of the best heals in the game AND now gets barrier for scrapper? lol okay.

LITERALLY COUNT THE NUMBER OF SURVIVABILITY ACTIONS A MIRAGE HAS THEN COMPARE IT TO THE REST OF THE CAST.And I don't just mean up time, calculate the on demand options and the accessibility depending on weapon set.

"Mesmer does to much damage"

An argument could have been made for condi, but an argument of "being to powerful" is ALWAYS made for condi, mesmer or not. That is a balance issue of the game as a whole.But just compare any burst combo to GS shatter and, "what it requires", and "what you have left to follow up with", Then idea that it "Does to much" is ridiculous when half the cast can just breath on you, and put you in a dangerous position while you have to try and line up a very specific combo that when whiffed is an up hill battle as you have to deal with whats left of these tanky, overly healy, or overly evasive bodies.

Ranger burst, holo burst, war burst: All easy one ore two button uses, barely any secondary management to hit larger numbers. Thief back stabs or snipes, Safest things in game if you whiff you just escape for virtually free and try again.

But okay mesmer is the problem and the most OP thing in game right? Let's just ignore how low either their coefficients or modifiers are compared to the rest of the roster.

"Mesmer has to many clones and it's distracting, I can't target them!"

Yeah well, no one good actually falls for that crap. Boons give you away, attack patterns are different, entire thing is easy to manipulate with AI pathing, and everything dies in cleave; oh and BTW unlike something more safe like perma stealth, a mesmer can't just simply eat those AoEs and cleaves acting like a clone. Even with target drop they are mediocre at best as a survivability mechanic. So they become a resource bar, like adreanline, or initiative, or life force... Except able to just be cleaved down.

Since release whenever Mesmer was on an objective level mediocre or underpowered everyone still called it OP.(This includes when people only ran it for portal and moa)

In the cases where it was so brokenly OP, it got nerfed within the season. (like OG Chronobunk)

When it was pretty much on par with everything else, and either side could win if they out played each other, we would get daily call outs for nerfs.

Whenever nerfs came it rarely dealt with the main issues, and all other builds would unfairly suffer.

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@"MrPhantasia.5924" said:If you want to get technical Spellbreaker is explicitly designed to be an elite specialization that's both less offensive and more defensively orientated compared to standard warriors as well as extremely disruptive by canceling other profession's strengths such as eliminating their boons, conditions, stealth, projectiles, even their mobility, and is packing a a solid amount of interrupts. Which if you're going to emphasize A-Net's "vision" paints them as even bigger failures as all meta spellbreaker is at this point in Conquest is a 1vX build that ramps 25 might and chucks 10k crits out while having top tier mobility. The utilities and traits designed to cancel out other profession's strengths never lived up to their potential. Sometimes stuff like this pans out well design wise, sometimes it misses it's mark.

When Spellbreaker is perhaps the purest example of a 1vX duelist and has been for almost 2 years straight now. And when arenanet in their reasoning for class changes explicitly mention being happy with spellbreakers and how they're performing, it's pretty safe to say they want them largely 1vXing.

I don't think that's a safe conclusion at all. Being happy with SB's only means one thing ... they aren't going to touch it ... until they decide to touch it again. This 'being happy with' has been the general case for Guardians for a LONG time but it doesn't have anything to do with some particular role that Guardians play in competetive aspects of the game. If you go further than the literal sense of that "being happy" statement, it's only because it suits your purpose to do so.

Literally the first thing you see in character creation about the class when you make a new character. It's literally the thesis statement is how they intend for the classes to operate. Arenanet is very upfront about what they intend the professions to focus on and be capable of.

Yes, those descriptors are good at saying generally what the classes are good at so people can choose a class that suits their playstyle. Again, I don't think that any player should think that in a competitive situation that's the best role those classes play. Guardians for the longest time were simply bunkers and they were horrible in the context of the team because they didn't add much to a team environment, yet they have been in a happy place for a long time. It's only recently that FB takes guardian class to it's rightful good team player position as the descriptor indicates.

My point here is that we should be VERY careful about reading into things Anet is telling you and making conclusions like you have with SB because what could happen (which has lots in past) is that Anet can change something and SB won't be 1 vs. X anymore and you will be sitting there convinced they have lied to you because you inferred something they never explicitly stated.

As i said, when the community complains this much, they are bound to get it right once in a while. That's all you're seeing here. If Anet is so dedicated to changing the game because of players complaints ... how do you explain the current state of the game? You're telling me that in the last 7 years that even though Anet is focused on addressing players complaints, they just can't do it? What does that tell you about the value of using players complaints as a guideline for changing the game?

It tells me that, in their own words, "
" and that they know they have more work to do.

I don't disagree with that ... they have only been balancing the game since it existed and I have no doubt it will continue until 'maintenance mode'. I'm not trying to indicate Anet is ever going to finish balancing but I am trying to make the point that their balance targets have nothing to do with the QQ du Jour like some people would indicate. If they coincide, it's not because Anet is incompetent and need hordes of angry players to give them feedback like some people would like to have us believe. That's just a completely ridiculous concept to start with.

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@Solori.6025 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Mesmers give 0 warnings regarding what shatter they are using already. When i see buncha clones run at me i don't know if they'll burst me to 0 health in 0.5s (hi legendary chronomancer in spvp arena), give me confusion stacks, daze me or make you invulnerable for 4s or so.

Most people see clones run to them and dodge. Though you being a necro can simply kill them with your AoE's.

You wouldn't happen to be an alt Account for Badmed?

Oh why didn't i think about this before? Oh wait...maybe because i'm a necro, the profession with worst amount of evades in whole game? Also cleaving? are you serious? If they run at me, no cleave will kill them before they get to me. And if i use it before they do, aren't I wasting precious skill on mesmer's clones?

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@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Mesmers give 0 warnings regarding what shatter they are using already. When i see buncha clones run at me i don't know if they'll burst me to 0 health in 0.5s (hi legendary chronomancer in spvp arena), give me confusion stacks, daze me or make you invulnerable for 4s or so.

Most people see clones run to them and dodge. Though you being a necro can simply kill them with your AoE's.

You wouldn't happen to be an alt Account for Badmed?

Oh why didn't i think about this before? Oh wait...maybe because i'm a
necro
, the profession with worst amount of evades in whole game? Also cleaving? are you serious? If they run at me, no cleave will kill them before they get to me. And if i use it before they do, aren't I wasting precious skill on mesmer's clones?

Are you a minstrel scourge?Cause I just did an 2 AA's on staff with a power build and killed clones before they reached me.Like I am confused as to what you are doing that you cantAoE kill clonesAA clonesCant dodge clones.Like Are you playing on the lowest settings and just not seeing them?Are butterflies obscuring your vision?What are you doing?

As Daishi said above.No good player gets confused by clones

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@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Mesmers give 0 warnings regarding what shatter they are using already. When i see buncha clones run at me i don't know if they'll burst me to 0 health in 0.5s (hi legendary chronomancer in spvp arena), give me confusion stacks, daze me or make you invulnerable for 4s or so.

Most people see clones run to them and dodge. Though you being a necro can simply kill them with your AoE's.

You wouldn't happen to be an alt Account for Badmed?

Oh why didn't i think about this before? Oh wait...maybe because i'm a
necro
, the profession with worst amount of evades in whole game? Also cleaving? are you serious? If they run at me, no cleave will kill them before they get to me. And if i use it before they do, aren't I wasting precious skill on mesmer's clones?

The only thing that should seriously frieghten you is when a mesmer uses the gs combo on you shotgun style point blank.

If they're shattering at a distance, unless they have the Chrono trait that gives the super speed they should never reach you.

You can literally kite them around. Go practice kiting champion mobs in central tyria. Its pretty easy to kite a base speed mob especially when it cant handle ports like spectal walk and flesh worm and jumping puzzles.

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@"Soulock.1752" said:Well, I'm happy with my Power Core Mesmer but will be nice to give me the option to swap out F2's Condi purpose to a Power or defensive purpose (1sec duration blind maybe?) But ya overall is okay.

Well, I don't want to be the mesmer who say that they messed up chaos, basically mass invisibility is low cd and long duration when traited, I don't think going the stealth way is healthy for any game. (and because it is mesmer thing i don't think it is gonna stay long enough)

In before someone comes and compare it with some other classes stealth, stealth is bad for any game (the long ones specially).Of course in some cases of complains, anet introduced the thief that you can see but you can't touch because of evade 24/7 you are lucky if you touched the thief, there are some things like shocking aura, but thats limited.

That being said, in true fights that are more than 1vs1 etc core is not as good as the others, so far it is doing well because of stealth mostly, I have faced a condi mirage, he is not bad, but the reason for me for not being able to kill him is he is using chaos traitline and mass invisibility (trailblaizer/dire), 9seconds I can't get him for sure, but when i meet him with my holo friend, most of the time he will not do any good and probably die in the process of trying to run. The same will go for any mesmer that is relying on stealth.

And if there is something that i missed in the video, sorry because it is long, I can't take my time to watch it all xD

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@Heartpains.7312 said:

@"Soulock.1752" said:Well, I'm happy with my Power Core Mesmer but will be nice to give me the option to swap out F2's Condi purpose to a Power or defensive purpose (1sec duration blind maybe?) But ya overall is okay.

Well, I don't want to be the mesmer who say that they messed up chaos, basically mass invisibility is low cd and long duration when traited, I don't think going the stealth way is healthy for any game. (and because it is mesmer thing i don't think it is gonna stay long enough)

In before someone comes and compare it with some other classes stealth, stealth is bad for any game (the long ones specially).Of course in some cases of complains, anet introduced the thief that you can see but you can't touch because of evade 24/7 you are lucky if you touched the thief, there are some things like shocking aura, but thats limited.

That being said, in true fights that are more than 1vs1 etc core is not as good as the others, so far it is doing well because of stealth mostly, I have faced a condi mirage, he is not bad, but the reason for me for not being able to kill him is he is using chaos traitline and mass invisibility (trailblaizer/dire), 9seconds I can't get him for sure, but when i meet him with my holo friend, most of the time he will not do any good and probably die in the process of trying to run. The same will go for any mesmer that is relying on stealth.

And if there is something that i missed in the video, sorry because it is long, I can't take my time to watch it all xD

Is cool! Sorry if the video is long cause I haven't play much due to real life being a pain in the gucci ? so I made it up with this 4 video long worth of honest roaming + duels with mostly wins and few loses (no idea why some people assume I edited out loses when they haven't even finish watching ?) if stealth is unhealthy for Mesmer... they should give us more utilities with mobility or better defensive options to trade off stealth which I doubt it will fix the problem and make things worst (making Condi Mirage more annoying to kill)

English is not my Native Language so no worries ?

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You guys remember when A-net said they want mirage to live longer in fights then nerfed it's survivability multiple times pretty harshly?Good times.

Not like engie or war just has to breath on you to bring you to about half health or anything lol. We can just tank ranger pets right? lol /sarcasm

The only non condi related survivability nerfs that were justified are:Evasive mirror, and MAYBE Mirage cloak duration.

Literally nothing else.Compared to the rest of the cast that exists right now:Vigor was fine, Jaunts 'x3 at 20 sec' was fine (maybe the confusion on it wasn't), Blinding dissipation was fine, Illusionary Ambush was fine.

DD still had more on demand evades.Ranger could choose to evade more and right now is on par with their usual insane damage set.Ele evades more now, with more consistent damage (vs power mes)Engie has always been the cocktail of high consistent damage, good CC, lots of stability, and one of the best heals in game. (must be nice to have so much damage not tied to one skill)Do I even need to mention war's "sturdy body" for their damage?

But ya know:Mes OP! Mes Imba! Nerf Mes! TO MANY CLONES NERF PLZ!!!!!!!!!!

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There's one thing many need to consider before suggestions. "Is it reasonable in work load" and "can we reasonably expect it to not be a giant clownfiesta on arrival and completely ruin the game for 12 months before the balance team finally have the lucky 8 ball say nerf it"

Realistically changing the shatters while nice leads to present problems with things like Master of Fragmentation, Bountiful Disillusionment and a few other select traits that buff or change specific shatters in ways. It also creates more work later as the shatters are different perhaps with different cool down etc.

So I think while it would be nice to have different shatters it's a case of not likely to be worth the effort by in large.

As for mesmer balance in general, it's a big sufferer of the way ANet balances which is they tone down and nerf everything but the problem first then nerf the problem so far below playable it has it's own level of hell. Elusive Mind is a good example of this and emphasises that they often nerf it in the wrong way.

The entire class has another problem, singular skills that are insanely strong or unique that completely carry the class and once they're removed you realise just how bad the class actually is. A good example is Continuum Shift, in every single meta where chrono has been strong or had strong abilities this one skill has been able to blow it up to arm waving "ANET NERF THIIIIIISSS!!!!" proportions because of how it lets you double up on any set of skills for 1.5-6s and has probably caused more imbalance than any other skill in the game.

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Look here; what a surprise??
(Thief) Mesmer making the headlines again of being toxic instead of being competitive- healthy-with-skill play, as the Op stated.It never amazes me that for 7 years; Thief and Mesmer continuously being called out for causing unbalance to the game yet nothing is beingdone to put an end to their Toxicity

Even forcing other professions to be toxic in dealing with them

Quote

'My favorite Scrapper build actually uses dual pistols! It doesn’t matter that my efficacy with a dual pistol Scrapper is quite high, or the amazing capabilities it has to counter high mobility and evasion classes like mesmers and thieves, simply the fact that a player isn’t running a build known to be overpowered is enough to be heckled if your team comes even slightly close to losing.'

https://www.mmorpg.com/guild-wars-2/columns/guild-wars-2-the-community-a-mixed-bag-1000013664

((Mesmers do not deserve to being treated unfairly-they deserve to being treated with fun skill-play designs and mechanics which honors Gwen Thackeray ))

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gwen

If Gwen Thackeray was still alive-she would Never approve her design and would certainly be Extremely-Beyond- Outrage by the direction of her Mesmer identity to Guild Wars and Tyria

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"MrPhantasia.5924" said:If you want to get technical Spellbreaker is explicitly designed to be an elite specialization that's both less offensive and more defensively orientated compared to standard warriors as well as extremely disruptive by canceling other profession's strengths such as eliminating their boons, conditions, stealth, projectiles, even their mobility, and is packing a a solid amount of interrupts. Which if you're going to emphasize A-Net's "vision" paints them as even bigger failures as all meta spellbreaker is at this point in Conquest is a 1vX build that ramps 25 might and chucks 10k crits out while having top tier mobility. The utilities and traits designed to cancel out other profession's strengths never lived up to their potential. Sometimes stuff like this pans out well design wise, sometimes it misses it's mark.

When Spellbreaker is perhaps the purest example of a 1vX duelist and has been for almost 2 years straight now. And when arenanet in their reasoning for class changes explicitly mention being happy with spellbreakers and how they're performing, it's pretty safe to say they want them largely 1vXing.

I don't think that's a safe conclusion at all. Being happy with SB's only means one thing ... they aren't going to touch it ... until they decide to touch it again. This 'being happy with' has been the general case for Guardians for a LONG time but it doesn't have anything to do with some particular role that Guardians play in competetive aspects of the game. If you go further than the literal sense of that "being happy" statement, it's only because it suits your purpose to do so.

Literally the first thing you see in character creation about the class when you make a new character. It's literally the thesis statement is how they intend for the classes to operate. Arenanet is very upfront about what they intend the professions to focus on and be capable of.

Yes, those descriptors are good at saying generally what the classes are good at so people can choose a class that suits their playstyle. Again, I don't think that any player should think that in a competitive situation that's the best role those classes play. Guardians for the longest time were simply bunkers and they were horrible in the context of the team because they didn't add much to a team environment, yet they have been in a happy place for a long time. It's only recently that FB takes guardian class to it's rightful good team player position as the descriptor indicates.

My point here is that we should be VERY careful about reading into things Anet is telling you and making conclusions like you have with SB because what could happen (which has lots in past) is that Anet can change something and SB won't be 1 vs. X anymore and you will be sitting there convinced they have lied to you because you inferred something they never explicitly stated.

As i said, when the community complains this much, they are bound to get it right once in a while. That's all you're seeing here. If Anet is so dedicated to changing the game because of players complaints ... how do you explain the current state of the game? You're telling me that in the last 7 years that even though Anet is focused on addressing players complaints, they just can't do it? What does that tell you about the value of using players complaints as a guideline for changing the game?

It tells me that, in their own words, "
" and that they know they have more work to do.

I don't disagree with that ... they have only been balancing the game since it existed and I have no doubt it will continue until 'maintenance mode'. I'm not trying to indicate Anet is ever going to finish balancing but I am trying to make the point that their balance targets have nothing to do with the
QQ du Jour
like some people would indicate. If they coincide, it's not because Anet is incompetent and need hordes of angry players to give them feedback like some people would like to have us believe. That's just a completely ridiculous concept to start with.

EZPZ Way To Understand Arenanet's Balance:

  • The phantasm update was Arenanet "Vision".
  • The 15 months of nerfs that fallowed were the direct results of what that vision had on competitive game modes performance wise and the player's reaction to it.

Both aspects play a roll. I mean hell, we have direct confirmed communication from devs that some changes like Countless suggesting Axe Ambush should require facing the target, me suggesting distortion should trigger the ambush window resulting in the Desert Distortion trait being made. Or the Jawgeous Video being confirmed by been in discord having directly resulted in Arenanet looking at mesmer shatter traits and trying to make them have enhanced effectiveness while only augmenting one shatter.

Both Anet Philosophy and player input have an impact on balance. Any argument otherwise ignores facts where both of these situations have been the case.

"Your point is" you don't have a point. You're a contrarian, a person who perpetually does nothing but plays Devil's Advocate on the forums in every thread you participate in. You have no real opinions. You have no real thoughts or intelligent observations to make. You just come into threads with a deliberate contrarian opinion to rile up debate and I'm not interested.

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@"Burnfall.9573" said:Look here; what a surprise??

(Thief) Mesmer making the headlines again of being toxic instead of being competitive- healthy-with-skill play, as the Op stated.It never amazes me that for 7 years; Thief and Mesmer continuously being called out for causing unbalance to the game yet nothing is beingdone to put an end to their Toxicity

Even forcing other professions to be toxic in dealing with them

Quote

'My favorite Scrapper build actually uses dual pistols! It doesn’t matter that my efficacy with a dual pistol Scrapper is quite high, or the amazing capabilities it has to counter high mobility and evasion classes like mesmers and thieves, simply the fact that a player isn’t running a build known to be overpowered is enough to be heckled if your team comes even slightly close to losing.'

https://www.mmorpg.com/guild-wars-2/columns/guild-wars-2-the-community-a-mixed-bag-1000013664

((Mesmers do not deserve to being treated unfairly-they deserve to being treated with fun skill-play designs and mechanics which honors Gwen Thackeray ))

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gwen

If Gwen Thackeray was still alive-she would Never approve her design and would certainly be Extremely-Beyond- Outrage by the direction of her Mesmer identity to Guild Wars and Tyria

If GW1 mesmer, the one Gwen is, was in GW2 it would have the forums on their knees grovelling to be set free from their oppressive single and sometimes multiple target shut down. GW1 mesmer was several orders of magnitude more powerful than GW2 mesmer, it could make you take massive damage for not casting and take massive damage for casting at the same time while quite literally doubling or even tripling up on any ability it wanted.

Make no mistake GW1 mesmer is a leather clad dominatrix that would reduce all these forum beta's to the pathetic slaves they are.

Edit: So why wasn't it a big issue in GW1? GW1 is a team game, had the trinity and you relied on your team to clear the hex's.

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@praqtos.9035 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:They are excellent at sustained combat (though I think you need to tell us what that means). It's almost stupid how easy it is to play a Mirage in any situation. With the right build, you literally have to work to get killed.Enlighten us about such absurdly good build where you have to work to get killed, will you ?Regardless, it doesn't change what I said. Sure devs make some mistakes, but how they balance the game isn't one of them. Just because you don't like how they do it doesn't mean it's a mistake. Again, don't impose your own ideas of how the game should work; only you will always be wrong if you do that.All you said is : I blindly believe anet know better than anyone what they do !Mirage had too long evade...? How do we solve the problem...? Shall we give 0.75s duraiton which we will give them eventually...?
  • No, lets nerf core weapon that was left alone since 2013, probably this was the reason !
  • Not enough, lets gut on crit vigor trait which many classes share in cooldown in duration and mirage vigor...
  • Bob, I think it doesnt work...
  • Okay lets make MC 0.75s and leave all the nerfs.CP alone caused clutter and double benefits from on phantasm summon traits,but because they couldnt come up with a new trait they decided to nerf core phantasms/utilities and only then CP.In other words instead go for overperforming elite they would rather nerf core first and as the last measure - elite spec. (50% nerf values... Love them)

Yes you get it. We really need some compensation for all the over the top hits and mechanics nerfs we got that didn't actually address the problems but just left in. Feels bad as right now. Many weapons feel so weak compared to what they were. We need to be thrown a bone. Not a huge one, but just some nice good stuff that feels nice.

Also chronoplasma is indeed the WORST crap you can imagine for a design perspective, it will undermine ALL phantasm balance, as well as amplify the significance of perfectly executed continuum splits that are already really annoying to play around and super easy to screw up or get screwed up outside of your control and turn power build into a damage over time build. Chronoplasma making phantasms get nerfed so they aren't op with it resulting in suck if you don't have it plus it causes splits between game modes where suddenly you do completely different proportions of damage because same bad design causing it.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"MrPhantasia.5924" said:If you want to get technical Spellbreaker is explicitly designed to be an elite specialization that's both less offensive and more defensively orientated compared to standard warriors as well as extremely disruptive by canceling other profession's strengths such as eliminating their boons, conditions, stealth, projectiles, even their mobility, and is packing a a solid amount of interrupts. Which if you're going to emphasize A-Net's "vision" paints them as even bigger failures as all meta spellbreaker is at this point in Conquest is a 1vX build that ramps 25 might and chucks 10k crits out while having top tier mobility. The utilities and traits designed to cancel out other profession's strengths never lived up to their potential. Sometimes stuff like this pans out well design wise, sometimes it misses it's mark.

When Spellbreaker is perhaps the purest example of a 1vX duelist and has been for almost 2 years straight now. And when arenanet in their reasoning for class changes explicitly mention being happy with spellbreakers and how they're performing, it's pretty safe to say they want them largely 1vXing.

I don't think that's a safe conclusion at all. Being happy with SB's only means one thing ... they aren't going to touch it ... until they decide to touch it again. This 'being happy with' has been the general case for Guardians for a LONG time but it doesn't have anything to do with some particular role that Guardians play in competetive aspects of the game. If you go further than the literal sense of that "being happy" statement, it's only because it suits your purpose to do so.

Literally the first thing you see in character creation about the class when you make a new character. It's literally the thesis statement is how they intend for the classes to operate. Arenanet is very upfront about what they intend the professions to focus on and be capable of.

Yes, those descriptors are good at saying generally what the classes are good at so people can choose a class that suits their playstyle. Again, I don't think that any player should think that in a competitive situation that's the best role those classes play. Guardians for the longest time were simply bunkers and they were horrible in the context of the team because they didn't add much to a team environment, yet they have been in a happy place for a long time. It's only recently that FB takes guardian class to it's rightful good team player position as the descriptor indicates.

My point here is that we should be VERY careful about reading into things Anet is telling you and making conclusions like you have with SB because what could happen (which has lots in past) is that Anet can change something and SB won't be 1 vs. X anymore and you will be sitting there convinced they have lied to you because you inferred something they never explicitly stated.

As i said, when the community complains this much, they are bound to get it right once in a while. That's all you're seeing here. If Anet is so dedicated to changing the game because of players complaints ... how do you explain the current state of the game? You're telling me that in the last 7 years that even though Anet is focused on addressing players complaints, they just can't do it? What does that tell you about the value of using players complaints as a guideline for changing the game?

It tells me that, in their own words, "
" and that they know they have more work to do.

I don't disagree with that ... they have only been balancing the game since it existed and I have no doubt it will continue until 'maintenance mode'. I'm not trying to indicate Anet is ever going to finish balancing but I am trying to make the point that their balance targets have nothing to do with the
QQ du Jour
like some people would indicate. If they coincide, it's not because Anet is incompetent and need hordes of angry players to give them feedback like some people would like to have us believe. That's just a completely ridiculous concept to start with.

EZPZ Way To Understand Arenanet's Balance:
  • The phantasm update was Arenanet "Vision".
  • The 15 months of nerfs that fallowed were the direct results of what that vision had on competitive game modes performance wise and the player's reaction to it.

Both aspects play a roll. I mean hell, we have direct confirmed communication from devs that some changes like Countless suggesting Axe Ambush should require facing the target, me suggesting distortion should trigger the ambush window resulting in the Desert Distortion trait being made. Or the Jawgeous Video being confirmed by been in discord having directly resulted in Arenanet looking at mesmer shatter traits and trying to make them have enhanced effectiveness while only augmenting one shatter.

Both Anet Philosophy and player input have an impact on balance. Any argument otherwise ignores facts where both of these situations have been the case.

"Your point is" you don't have a point. You're a contrarian, a person who perpetually does nothing but plays Devil's Advocate on the forums in every thread you participate in. You have no real opinions. You have no real thoughts or intelligent observations to make. You just come into threads with a deliberate contrarian opinion to rile up debate and I'm not interested.

It's a good story, but it doesn't change what I posted in response to that other guy. For someone that isn't interested, you sure put down alot of words here.

The fact is that Anet implements and changes as they go along. There isn't a test server here and even if there was, it wouldn't prove out the way things work anyways. The live server is the best place for changes to be tested because it's where players fully engage the game.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"MrPhantasia.5924" said:If you want to get technical Spellbreaker is explicitly designed to be an elite specialization that's both less offensive and more defensively orientated compared to standard warriors as well as extremely disruptive by canceling other profession's strengths such as eliminating their boons, conditions, stealth, projectiles, even their mobility, and is packing a a solid amount of interrupts. Which if you're going to emphasize A-Net's "vision" paints them as even bigger failures as all meta spellbreaker is at this point in Conquest is a 1vX build that ramps 25 might and chucks 10k crits out while having top tier mobility. The utilities and traits designed to cancel out other profession's strengths never lived up to their potential. Sometimes stuff like this pans out well design wise, sometimes it misses it's mark.

When Spellbreaker is perhaps the purest example of a 1vX duelist and has been for almost 2 years straight now. And when arenanet in their reasoning for class changes explicitly mention being happy with spellbreakers and how they're performing, it's pretty safe to say they want them largely 1vXing.

I don't think that's a safe conclusion at all. Being happy with SB's only means one thing ... they aren't going to touch it ... until they decide to touch it again. This 'being happy with' has been the general case for Guardians for a LONG time but it doesn't have anything to do with some particular role that Guardians play in competetive aspects of the game. If you go further than the literal sense of that "being happy" statement, it's only because it suits your purpose to do so.

Literally the first thing you see in character creation about the class when you make a new character. It's literally the thesis statement is how they intend for the classes to operate. Arenanet is very upfront about what they intend the professions to focus on and be capable of.

Yes, those descriptors are good at saying generally what the classes are good at so people can choose a class that suits their playstyle. Again, I don't think that any player should think that in a competitive situation that's the best role those classes play. Guardians for the longest time were simply bunkers and they were horrible in the context of the team because they didn't add much to a team environment, yet they have been in a happy place for a long time. It's only recently that FB takes guardian class to it's rightful good team player position as the descriptor indicates.

My point here is that we should be VERY careful about reading into things Anet is telling you and making conclusions like you have with SB because what could happen (which has lots in past) is that Anet can change something and SB won't be 1 vs. X anymore and you will be sitting there convinced they have lied to you because you inferred something they never explicitly stated.

As i said, when the community complains this much, they are bound to get it right once in a while. That's all you're seeing here. If Anet is so dedicated to changing the game because of players complaints ... how do you explain the current state of the game? You're telling me that in the last 7 years that even though Anet is focused on addressing players complaints, they just can't do it? What does that tell you about the value of using players complaints as a guideline for changing the game?

It tells me that, in their own words, "
" and that they know they have more work to do.

I don't disagree with that ... they have only been balancing the game since it existed and I have no doubt it will continue until 'maintenance mode'. I'm not trying to indicate Anet is ever going to finish balancing but I am trying to make the point that their balance targets have nothing to do with the
QQ du Jour
like some people would indicate. If they coincide, it's not because Anet is incompetent and need hordes of angry players to give them feedback like some people would like to have us believe. That's just a completely ridiculous concept to start with.

EZPZ Way To Understand Arenanet's Balance:
  • The phantasm update was Arenanet "Vision".
  • The 15 months of nerfs that fallowed were the direct results of what that vision had on competitive game modes performance wise and the player's reaction to it.

Both aspects play a roll. I mean hell, we have direct confirmed communication from devs that some changes like Countless suggesting Axe Ambush should require facing the target, me suggesting distortion should trigger the ambush window resulting in the Desert Distortion trait being made. Or the Jawgeous Video being confirmed by been in discord having directly resulted in Arenanet looking at mesmer shatter traits and trying to make them have enhanced effectiveness while only augmenting one shatter.

Both Anet Philosophy and player input have an impact on balance. Any argument otherwise ignores facts where both of these situations have been the case.

"Your point is" you don't have a point. You're a contrarian, a person who perpetually does nothing but plays Devil's Advocate on the forums in every thread you participate in. You have no real opinions. You have no real thoughts or intelligent observations to make. You just come into threads with a deliberate contrarian opinion to rile up debate and I'm not interested.

It's a good story, but it doesn't change what I posted in response to that other guy. For someone that isn't interested, you sure put down alot of words here.

The fact is that Anet implements and changes as they go along. There isn't a test server here and even if there was, it wouldn't prove out the way things work anyways. The live server is the best place for changes to be tested because it's where players fully engage the game.

This is literally a nonsequitor that has nothing to do with the conversation.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"MrPhantasia.5924" said:If you want to get technical Spellbreaker is explicitly designed to be an elite specialization that's both less offensive and more defensively orientated compared to standard warriors as well as extremely disruptive by canceling other profession's strengths such as eliminating their boons, conditions, stealth, projectiles, even their mobility, and is packing a a solid amount of interrupts. Which if you're going to emphasize A-Net's "vision" paints them as even bigger failures as all meta spellbreaker is at this point in Conquest is a 1vX build that ramps 25 might and chucks 10k crits out while having top tier mobility. The utilities and traits designed to cancel out other profession's strengths never lived up to their potential. Sometimes stuff like this pans out well design wise, sometimes it misses it's mark.

When Spellbreaker is perhaps the purest example of a 1vX duelist and has been for almost 2 years straight now. And when arenanet in their reasoning for class changes explicitly mention being happy with spellbreakers and how they're performing, it's pretty safe to say they want them largely 1vXing.

I don't think that's a safe conclusion at all. Being happy with SB's only means one thing ... they aren't going to touch it ... until they decide to touch it again. This 'being happy with' has been the general case for Guardians for a LONG time but it doesn't have anything to do with some particular role that Guardians play in competetive aspects of the game. If you go further than the literal sense of that "being happy" statement, it's only because it suits your purpose to do so.

Literally the first thing you see in character creation about the class when you make a new character. It's literally the thesis statement is how they intend for the classes to operate. Arenanet is very upfront about what they intend the professions to focus on and be capable of.

Yes, those descriptors are good at saying generally what the classes are good at so people can choose a class that suits their playstyle. Again, I don't think that any player should think that in a competitive situation that's the best role those classes play. Guardians for the longest time were simply bunkers and they were horrible in the context of the team because they didn't add much to a team environment, yet they have been in a happy place for a long time. It's only recently that FB takes guardian class to it's rightful good team player position as the descriptor indicates.

My point here is that we should be VERY careful about reading into things Anet is telling you and making conclusions like you have with SB because what could happen (which has lots in past) is that Anet can change something and SB won't be 1 vs. X anymore and you will be sitting there convinced they have lied to you because you inferred something they never explicitly stated.

As i said, when the community complains this much, they are bound to get it right once in a while. That's all you're seeing here. If Anet is so dedicated to changing the game because of players complaints ... how do you explain the current state of the game? You're telling me that in the last 7 years that even though Anet is focused on addressing players complaints, they just can't do it? What does that tell you about the value of using players complaints as a guideline for changing the game?

It tells me that, in their own words, "
" and that they know they have more work to do.

I don't disagree with that ... they have only been balancing the game since it existed and I have no doubt it will continue until 'maintenance mode'. I'm not trying to indicate Anet is ever going to finish balancing but I am trying to make the point that their balance targets have nothing to do with the
QQ du Jour
like some people would indicate. If they coincide, it's not because Anet is incompetent and need hordes of angry players to give them feedback like some people would like to have us believe. That's just a completely ridiculous concept to start with.

EZPZ Way To Understand Arenanet's Balance:
  • The phantasm update was Arenanet "Vision".
  • The 15 months of nerfs that fallowed were the direct results of what that vision had on competitive game modes performance wise and the player's reaction to it.

Both aspects play a roll. I mean hell, we have direct confirmed communication from devs that some changes like Countless suggesting Axe Ambush should require facing the target, me suggesting distortion should trigger the ambush window resulting in the Desert Distortion trait being made. Or the Jawgeous Video being confirmed by been in discord having directly resulted in Arenanet looking at mesmer shatter traits and trying to make them have enhanced effectiveness while only augmenting one shatter.

Both Anet Philosophy and player input have an impact on balance. Any argument otherwise ignores facts where both of these situations have been the case.

"Your point is" you don't have a point. You're a contrarian, a person who perpetually does nothing but plays Devil's Advocate on the forums in every thread you participate in. You have no real opinions. You have no real thoughts or intelligent observations to make. You just come into threads with a deliberate contrarian opinion to rile up debate and I'm not interested.

It's a good story, but it doesn't change what I posted in response to that other guy. For someone that isn't interested, you sure put down alot of words here.

The fact is that Anet implements and changes as they go along. There isn't a test server here and even if there was, it wouldn't prove out the way things work anyways. The live server is the best place for changes to be tested because it's where players fully engage the game.

This is literally a nonsequitor that has nothing to do with the conversation.

Then i guess it's a good fit to your previous post :wink:

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@apharma.3741 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Look here; what a surprise??

(Thief) Mesmer making the headlines again of being toxic instead of being competitive- healthy-with-skill play, as the Op stated.It never amazes me that for 7 years; Thief and Mesmer continuously being called out for causing unbalance to the game yet nothing is beingdone to put an end to their Toxicity

Even forcing other professions to be toxic in dealing with them

Quote

'My favorite Scrapper build actually uses dual pistols! It doesn’t matter that my efficacy with a dual pistol Scrapper is quite high, or the amazing capabilities it has to counter high mobility and evasion classes like mesmers and thieves, simply the fact that a player isn’t running a build known to be overpowered is enough to be heckled if your team comes even slightly close to losing.'

((Mesmers do not deserve to being treated unfairly-they deserve to being treated with fun skill-play designs and mechanics which honors Gwen Thackeray ))

If Gwen Thackeray was still alive-she would Never approve her design and would certainly be Extremely-Beyond- Outrage by the direction of her Mesmer identity to Guild Wars and Tyria

If GW1 mesmer, the one Gwen is, was in GW2 it would have the forums on their knees grovelling to be set free from their oppressive single and sometimes multiple target shut down. GW1 mesmer was several orders of magnitude more powerful than GW2 mesmer, it could make you take massive damage for not casting and take massive damage for casting at the same time while quite literally doubling or even tripling up on any ability it wanted.

Make no mistake GW1 mesmer is a leather clad dominatrix that would reduce all these forum beta's to the pathetic slaves they are.

Edit: So why wasn't it a big issue in GW1? GW1 is a team game, had the trinity and you relied on your team to clear the hex's.

I want this..........i want this now.........

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@Solori.6025 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Look here; what a surprise??

(Thief) Mesmer making the headlines again of being toxic instead of being competitive- healthy-with-skill play, as the Op stated.It never amazes me that for 7 years; Thief and Mesmer continuously being called out for causing unbalance to the game yet nothing is beingdone to put an end to their Toxicity

Even forcing other professions to be toxic in dealing with them

Quote

'My favorite Scrapper build actually uses dual pistols! It doesn’t matter that my efficacy with a dual pistol Scrapper is quite high, or the amazing capabilities it has to counter high mobility and evasion classes like mesmers and thieves, simply the fact that a player isn’t running a build known to be overpowered is enough to be heckled if your team comes even slightly close to losing.'

((Mesmers do not deserve to being treated unfairly-they deserve to being treated with fun skill-play designs and mechanics which honors Gwen Thackeray ))

If Gwen Thackeray was still alive-she would Never approve her design and would certainly be Extremely-Beyond- Outrage by the direction of her Mesmer identity to Guild Wars and Tyria

If GW1 mesmer, the one Gwen is, was in GW2 it would have the forums on their knees grovelling to be set free from their oppressive single and sometimes multiple target shut down. GW1 mesmer was several orders of magnitude more powerful than GW2 mesmer, it could make you take massive damage for not casting and take massive damage for casting at the same time while quite literally doubling or even tripling up on any ability it wanted.

Make no mistake GW1 mesmer is a leather clad dominatrix that would reduce all these forum beta's to the pathetic slaves they are.

Edit: So why wasn't it a big issue in GW1? GW1 is a team game, had the trinity and you relied on your team to clear the hex's.

I want this..........i want this now.........

https://www.guildwars.com/en/

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@apharma.3741 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Look here; what a surprise??

(Thief) Mesmer making the headlines again of being toxic instead of being competitive- healthy-with-skill play, as the Op stated.It never amazes me that for 7 years; Thief and Mesmer continuously being called out for causing unbalance to the game yet nothing is beingdone to put an end to their Toxicity

Even forcing other professions to be toxic in dealing with them

Quote

'My favorite Scrapper build actually uses dual pistols! It doesn’t matter that my efficacy with a dual pistol Scrapper is quite high, or the amazing capabilities it has to counter high mobility and evasion classes like mesmers and thieves, simply the fact that a player isn’t running a build known to be overpowered is enough to be heckled if your team comes even slightly close to losing.'

((Mesmers do not deserve to being treated unfairly-they deserve to being treated with fun skill-play designs and mechanics which honors Gwen Thackeray ))

If Gwen Thackeray was still alive-she would Never approve her design and would certainly be Extremely-Beyond- Outrage by the direction of her Mesmer identity to Guild Wars and Tyria

If GW1 mesmer, the one Gwen is, was in GW2 it would have the forums on their knees grovelling to be set free from their oppressive single and sometimes multiple target shut down. GW1 mesmer was several orders of magnitude more powerful than GW2 mesmer, it could make you take massive damage for not casting and take massive damage for casting at the same time while quite literally doubling or even tripling up on any ability it wanted.

Make no mistake GW1 mesmer is a leather clad dominatrix that would reduce all these forum beta's to the pathetic slaves they are.

Edit: So why wasn't it a big issue in GW1? GW1 is a team game, had the trinity and you relied on your team to clear the hex's.

I want this..........i want this now.........

I meant in gw2 ?I tried gw1.....waaaaayyy to slow for me. Like I can stand playing FF14 or Swtor more than I can gw1.

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@Solori.6025 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Look here; what a surprise??

(Thief) Mesmer making the headlines again of being toxic instead of being competitive- healthy-with-skill play, as the Op stated.It never amazes me that for 7 years; Thief and Mesmer continuously being called out for causing unbalance to the game yet nothing is beingdone to put an end to their Toxicity

Even forcing other professions to be toxic in dealing with them

Quote

'My favorite Scrapper build actually uses dual pistols! It doesn’t matter that my efficacy with a dual pistol Scrapper is quite high, or the amazing capabilities it has to counter high mobility and evasion classes like mesmers and thieves, simply the fact that a player isn’t running a build known to be overpowered is enough to be heckled if your team comes even slightly close to losing.'

((Mesmers do not deserve to being treated unfairly-they deserve to being treated with fun skill-play designs and mechanics which honors Gwen Thackeray ))

If Gwen Thackeray was still alive-she would Never approve her design and would certainly be Extremely-Beyond- Outrage by the direction of her Mesmer identity to Guild Wars and Tyria

If GW1 mesmer, the one Gwen is, was in GW2 it would have the forums on their knees grovelling to be set free from their oppressive single and sometimes multiple target shut down. GW1 mesmer was several orders of magnitude more powerful than GW2 mesmer, it could make you take massive damage for not casting and take massive damage for casting at the same time while quite literally doubling or even tripling up on any ability it wanted.

Make no mistake GW1 mesmer is a leather clad dominatrix that would reduce all these forum beta's to the pathetic slaves they are.

Edit: So why wasn't it a big issue in GW1? GW1 is a team game, had the trinity and you relied on your team to clear the hex's.

I want this..........i want this now.........

I meant in gw2 >_<.I tried gw1.....waaaaayyy to slow for me. Like I can stand playing FF14 or Swtor more than I can gw1.

It's a choice of preference. I and many others with many more returning players including increasingly more new players prefers Guild Wars healthy-fun competitive effort-skill play pace instead of Guild Wars 2 pace approach where whoever can spam the most toxic skills with abusing bad design mechanic wins.

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