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Guild Wars 2 should have harder content.


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@Ashen.2907 said:

@Mil.3562 said:

@"Excursion.9752" said:I'll tell you what someone said to me once when I mentioned this very same topic in game. Only because it made me laugh.They told me to take the gear I use for my weekly key run and use that on my level 80's. I guess they were trying to say there are ways to make it more difficult.

On a serious note do you raid? Or you like me and looking for more difficult solo content?

I play everything. PvP, WvW, Raids, PvE.
Compared to other games
, GW2 is way too easy and they spoil players too much. That's why we have people who are lazy and just afk metas.

Then go play your other games. This is like eating an apple and asked, " why doesn't this taste like orange? ".

I think a better analogy would be something like eating the chocolate sundae you ordered and noticing that the kitten cream and cherry on top were missing and asking for them to be added.

Considering that gw2 was never marketed as a hardcore game and was pretty open about being designed for more casual gameplay and audiences. I think a better analogy is ordering plain ice cream and then getting mad that you didn't get a chocolate sundae.

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@ChronosCosmos.9450 said:We already have plenty of ways to casually play the game with barely any effort. Is there not a way where you guys can make some parts of the game more difficult? I understand that your main audience is not hardcore, but please leave some hardcore content for your hardcore fans that have been with you for a while. That is all that we ask for. Legendaries are nice...but we prefer harder content. I would trade my existing Legendaries for difficult content.

I would.personally like to see a harder one server. Bump mob up and dmglevels, and nerf player character damage.

Make open world PvP harder, but make it so you have to reroll on that server and start with no account bound perks.

This way people that want the challenge elect for it and it isn't forced on everyone.

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@"Excursion.9752" said:I'll tell you what someone said to me once when I mentioned this very same topic in game. Only because it made me laugh.They told me to take the gear I use for my weekly key run and use that on my level 80's. I guess they were trying to say there are ways to make it more difficult.

On a serious note do you raid? Or you like me and looking for more difficult solo content?

There are also ways to make the game easier, namely by using good builds and playing well. Tho u are called toxic elitist when u say that and it doesnt "adress" their demands for easy mode raids.

What gives?

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@Teratus.2859 said:

@aspirine.6852 said:They used to have Elite areas in GW1, so why not in GW2.

Open world vs instanced maps..

It would be impossible to make a hard mode similar to Gw1.

It might be possible to make Elite Dungeons similar to Gw1 though.. but I expect many would state that raids are more or less the Gw2 variant of those.Personally prefer Gw1's Elite Dungeons to them though.Raids are more DPS vs a clock sorta thing where as Elite Dungeons were a hardcore endurance test.

I think they could do Elite map raids in Gw2 though if they wanted to.Wouldn't be easy to make and balance but I really like the idea of Elite maps full of strong enemies and raid like bosses, designed for 50 man squads.Would certainly make for some interesting Guild content, not to mention serious squad building consideration.You could have tank roles, healing roles, boon spam roles, DPS roles, support roles, ranged roles, condi roles.A squad actually working as an effective unit rather than a random zerg of people rushing through everything like we always see in PvE.

Story missions are instanced, hard mode for those would work as well as it did for the first game.

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Raids and fractals exist :UAnd from my experience, it doesn't really matter how "hard" they make it, some people will still complain it's too easy. So imo, the current raids and their challenge motes are good enough. This game really doesn't need a ton of super difficult content, especially when most of the playerbase won't touch it.

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I see a lot of misinformation and contradictory statements in this thread.If the question was about instanced content,meant and designed to be as challenging as possible in the context of a game like GW2,it would make sense for players to be asking for "harder" content.But to complain about the open world content difficulty in GW2 when in every single one of the other "AAA" MMOs similar type of content is far easier,way simpler and not even close to as much varied and abundant....something is seriously wrong with this picture.Unless all this was really meant to be a rant about players afking and getting rewards from the events while others do all the work,which shouldn't be much of an issue since open world content is really easy and takes no effort anyway,don't it?

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@kharmin.7683 said:Not sure that you are part of the target audience?

What is the target audience?I mean I don't want your opinion but a reference from ANET.

@"Obtena.7952" said:And the majority of the community like it that way.

How do you know? Just curious.

P.S Are everyone on the forum mistaking their opinion with solid facts supported by raw data of info? Because if no, can we stop pretending that we know something? Players want this, players want that - I don't remember anyone asking me what I want, how can you know what I want? Are there any raw statistics of the 11m players that can show what the community want?

OP is coming with an opinion and a suggestion but you (not pointing a specific person) are countering him with "facts" that are supposed to show what WE (all of the players) want.

I, personally, would love to see harder content and I am bigger fan of the "old" HoT than the new PoF. However, I would like to see more legendary items and collections also. For example, I like the mount and the trinket collection - they are time consuming and interesting. Also, these collections have brought so many players on the maps.

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@CeNedro.7560 said:Ppl don't want difficult content, they want to exclude other players from the rewardpool to increase value. Something I really dislike.

I can honestly see this being one of the main motives, but I don't think it covers everyone.

Rather than us having extremely challenging content we have acceptable difficulties that are repeatable, currencies to earn, and this requiring time and effort instead of players being walled off by a class or difficulty curve.

Considering this and the way the game was balanced for it, I don't know if anything more difficult than the current raids would get much positive attention.

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@CeNedro.7560 said:Ppl don't want difficult content, they want to exclude other players from the rewardpool to increase value. Something I really dislike.

Some rewards should only be available if you put in the effort to do harder content in a game. Exclusive rewards for getting better and overcoming actual challenges are a good thing imo. It seems a lot of this community feels like they are entitled to access to every reward with very little to no effort sometimes.

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@"Game of Bones.8975" said:I asked about this a while back.Most of the answers I got back revolved around me using armor and weapons that were ... well ... beginners at best.I responded I was having challenge enough with one of my cats climbing on my keyboard. I should be glad it's not one of my dogs.

As the reluctant owner of an aggressively affectionate gigantic cat, I can relate. Hell, right now she's strewn across my arms, pinning them in place passive-aggressively.

Anyway, that whole "use common gear" thing is silly on a number of levels. First, "challenging content" implies that you have to rise to meet the challenge, not debase yourself. The fun of challenge is problem solving and perfecting performance. Second, in a public area your performance directly affects how easily other players win. Purposefully nerfing yourself puts the burden on other players around you. Third, it completely ignores the community benefits. Achievement, self-betterment, and earned success are satisfying no matter who you are. It's why we play the game. To instill the desire for self-betterment in the game positively affects everyone else in the game. Nobody loses out by everybody being better.

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@Vyrulisse.1246 said:

@"CeNedro.7560" said:Ppl don't want difficult content, they want to exclude other players from the rewardpool to increase value. Something I really dislike.

Some rewards should only be available if you put in the effort to do harder content in a game. Exclusive rewards for getting better and overcoming actual challenges are a good thing imo. It seems a lot of this community feels like they are entitled to access to every reward with very little to no effort sometimes.

It also feels like there's a part of this community that feels entitled to exclusive rewards, just because they do "harder" content. That's not a good thing imo.

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Whenever this topic comes up, people will claim that this game was always marketed as casual game, never marketed towards hardcore players, players who want difficult content are not the target audience, etc. Does anyone have a source for that? I'm not claiming that there isn't one - I'm just genuinely curious because I've never seen one. (In fact, the only marketing I remember talked about there being no gear grind, no dependence on random drops, cooperative PvE, level scaling, and a combat system that is active and reactive rather than depending on rote memorisation of a skill rotation - most of which, if anything, seems to me to be at odds with the idea that the game was originally intended to be easy.)

@Hannelore.8153 said:I'm just going to say that ArenaNet needs to learn what a difficulty setting is, and why every game has had one since the 90s, with the sole exception of their game (at least in story, dungeons, fractals, raids instances, open world is understandable).

This, 1000 times this! So many of the complaints on this forum about difficulty (whether it's about something being too easy or too hard) would be solved by having difficulty levels!

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@ChronosCosmos.9450 said:We already have plenty of ways to casually play the game with barely any effort. Is there not a way where you guys can make some parts of the game more difficult? I understand that your main audience is not hardcore, but please leave some hardcore content for your hardcore fans that have been with you for a while. That is all that we ask for. Legendaries are nice...but we prefer harder content. I would trade my existing Legendaries for difficult content.

How hard is hard. Any suggestion? I thought there are raid and Fractal CM

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@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@kharmin.7683 said:Not sure that you are part of the target audience?

What is the target audience?I mean I don't want your opinion but a reference from ANET.

@"Obtena.7952" said:And the majority of the community like it that way.

How do you know? Just curious.

Granted, I don't have a specific reference from Anet; however, evidence suggests that the game, which has been around for how many years now with no real push toward making content more difficult, would indicate a more casual audience. Further evidence is found with the release of HoT and the strong blow-back from the community to the point that the content was toned down. Then, PoF was released at a level comparable to the "nerfed" HoT instead of it being more difficult.

After all of these years, it doesn't appear to me that Anet is concerned about making content at the level that you, perhaps, would prefer (raids notwithstanding, although from what I've read, GW2 raiding is less complicated than in other games, which might also suggest GW2 catering to a more casual audience. YMMV). The one time that they did try to ramp things up (HoT), they pulled back. It may just be that this game isn't for you due to the level of difficulty that you would like.

There are many other MMOs in the wild that are more difficult than GW2. As a very casual player, I do not enjoy them and am quite content to have one game that I can enjoy at my pace and level of play. It is my hope that ANet keeps it this way.

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@Vyrulisse.1246 said:

@"CeNedro.7560" said:Ppl don't want difficult content, they want to exclude other players from the rewardpool to increase value. Something I really dislike.

Some rewards should only be available if you put in the effort to do harder content in a game. Exclusive rewards for getting better and overcoming actual challenges are a good thing imo. It seems a lot of this community feels like they are entitled to access to every reward with very little to no effort sometimes.

That wasn't the point of that comment though. The point, which I agree with, was that many "hardcore" players aren't asking for more difficult content for the sake of challenge. In reality, they want more exclusive shinies and challenging content just happens to be the best way to ensure they remain as exclusive as possible. So the "I want more difficult content" is usually a thinly veiled "I want more exclusive shinies to show off/profit from" but it's never expressed like that.

That's not to say there are no genuine requests ever, this OP seems honest enough.

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@"kharmin.7683" said:Not sure that you are part of the target audience?

Guild Wars 2 was announced as an MMORPG for everyone. Where it's not about how well you keep up with a treadmill, and not arbitrarily bumping up the level cap. They'll always leave the light on for you, but where there's tons of horizontal progression for dedicated players. "We'll leave the light on for you" was a direct quote. Where if you play 20 hours a week or 20 minutes a week there's something for you to enjoy and work towards. Where there's casual content and very very difficult group and solo content so there's something everyone to enjoy.

It was not announced as Baby's Day Out: Move: The Game.

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@kharmin.7683 said:Not sure that you are part of the target audience?

What is the target audience?I mean I don't want your opinion but a reference from ANET.

@"Obtena.7952" said:And the majority of the community like it that way.

How do you know? Just curious.

Granted, I don't have a specific reference from Anet; however, evidence suggests that the game, which has been around for how many years now with no real push toward making content more difficult, would indicate a more casual audience. Further evidence is found with the release of HoT and the strong blow-back from the community to the point that the content was toned down. Then, PoF was released at a level comparable to the "nerfed" HoT instead of it being more difficult.

After all of these years, it doesn't appear to me that Anet is concerned about making content at the level that you, perhaps, would prefer (raids notwithstanding, although from what I've read, GW2 raiding is less complicated than in other games, which might also suggest GW2 catering to a more casual audience. YMMV). The one time that they did try to ramp things up (HoT), they pulled back. It may just be that this game isn't for you due to the level of difficulty that you would like.

There are many other MMOs in the wild that are more difficult than GW2. As a very casual player, I do not enjoy them and am quite content to have one game that I can enjoy at my pace and level of play. It is my hope that ANet keeps it this way.

Okay, I see now from where comes your assumption. After HoT was released there were clearly 2 sides - 1 hated it because it was confusing, difficult and different from the core game; the other side loved it because it was different from the original GW2, harder and more interesting. With that said you can't say (you can but you won't be right) that the community had a strong blow-back and ignore all the players that actually liked the expansion. Now, you will say that I am right but the amount of people complaining were more than the amount of players who actually were enjoying it (BTW sorry for making a solo dialog - just trying to save some time). And this won't be a correct statement because this observation was most likely made on the forums, in game chat and other social media networks. Why it won't be correct? Because people that are not enjoying the content are more likely (a lot more) to "blow-back" about it than the people who are actually enjoying it, thus a statement that says "the amount of people complaining were more than the amount of players who actually were enjoying it" will be incorrect. However, you could say "the amount of people complaining were more than the amount of players who weren't complaining". And this is completely normal. If you are happy with (just an example) your internet connection, you won't bother writing grateful letters or emails to your internet provider, aren't you? This means that you simply will be wrong by saying that the community didn't like the harder content of HoT.

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@ChronosCosmos.9450 said:We already have plenty of ways to casually play the game with barely any effort. Is there not a way where you guys can make some parts of the game more difficult?They tried that with raids and Fractal CM's. That ended up being a... mixed success at best.

@Deihnyx.6318 said:The game wasn't always like that, and GW1 certainly wasn't. These changes are made because you got people complaining non stop that everything is too hard and they can't get everything instantly.No, these changes are made because people vote with their feet. The hardcore content was simply not popular enough for Anet to continue to invest in it at the cost of ther more casual part of community.

@Opopanax.1803 said:

@ChronosCosmos.9450 said:We already have plenty of ways to casually play the game with barely any effort. Is there not a way where you guys can make some parts of the game more difficult? I understand that your main audience is not hardcore, but please leave some hardcore content for your hardcore fans that have been with you for a while. That is all that we ask for. Legendaries are nice...but we prefer harder content. I would trade my existing Legendaries for difficult content.

I would.personally like to see a harder one server. Bump mob up and dmglevels, and nerf player character damage.

Make open world PvP harder, but make it so you have to reroll on that server and start with no account bound perks.

This way people that want the challenge elect for it and it isn't forced on everyone.I'd like that too. I could then sit back with popcorn and laught as it would be closed later on due to not having enough players to sustain itself.

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Okay, I see now from where comes your assumption. After HoT was released there were clearly 2 sides - 1 hated it because it was confusing, difficult and different from the core game; the other side loved it because it was different from the original GW2, harder and more interesting. With that said you can't say (you can but you won't be right) that the community had a strong blow-back and ignore all the players that actually liked the expansion. Now, you will say that I am right but the amount of people complaining were more than the amount of players who actually were enjoying it (BTW sorry for making a solo dialog - just trying to save some time). And this won't be a correct statement because this observation was most likely made on the forums, in game chat and other social media networks.True. But i seriously doubt Anet made the change based on the forum blowback (because they sure as kitten have ignored even greater blowbacks in other matters). They did it after observing their
ingame
metrics. It was those that told them HoT was too hard for the community, not the forums.

Same for other hardcore content - they are not investing heavily into it (and even seem to cut bac on it lately), because they don't see enough of an ingame return from it. Not because hardcores aren't asking for it loudly enough, or because casuals are complaining.

Simply put, there clearly aren't enough players that like that type of content for them to make bigger investment into it worthwhile. I know that's not what the small number of remaining gw2 hardcores want to hear, but that's what it is. Blaming the community for having different likes and dislikes than yours won't change it.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:If you want harder content, you'll have to blame the playerbase. Because, if Anet makes harder content, it won't make money. It'll just drive away all the players.

It's a very good description of the situation we have.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:True. But i seriously doubt Anet made the change based on the forum blowback (because they sure as kitten have ignored even greater blowbacks in other matters). They did it after observing their ingame metrics. It was those that told them HoT was too hard for the community, not the forums.

I hope so, but don't forget that ANET listens to the forums - look at the most recent blow-back about the SKyscale. They did change it based on a forum blow-back.

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