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Looking for advice regarding DPS picks [Raiding]

Hey there,
I'm not a raider, but would like to get into it, I raided a bit before PoF came out meaning its been a while.
I've been trying to look for at least 2 picks to DPS in raids (a power build and a condi build) to start with but in snowcrows it doesn't seem to show all builds and every boss shows a different best comp so I'm having some trouble figuring out the best 2 to start with. Example: Cairn shows Mirage as best DPS but in the golems Mirage is not shown, so it's not easy to compare Mirage with other condi specs.
Long story short, I'd like to know which 2 specs I should start with, and with time ill be able to get the others going.
Sorry for the noob and confusing question.

Thanks

Comments

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    well

    does a test golem attack you to trigger confusion?
    if the answer is no, then what's the point of testing mirage since a majority of it's dps can't be tested?

    psst, the answer is no ^^

    as you allready said yourself, party compostions can (and should) change to fit the situation.
    for expeirenced raiders (myself) that is zero isue as i have all classes experienced and raid ready

    for new players (you) big issue.
    1 condi dps and 1 power dps, as you suggested is therefor the ideal solution.

    mirage, condi renegade being the 2 best picks. and mirage being the better (and easier to play, also not to neglect for new players)
    for power there are several options to begin with

    soulbeast
    reaper
    dragonhunter

    those 3 are extremely easy to play.

    the real question should be: do i like these classes that i ask others players for me to play with

  • Tripzter.8623Tripzter.8623 Member
    edited May 25, 2019

    @melandru.3876 said:
    well

    does a test golem attack you to trigger confusion?
    if the answer is no, then what's the point of testing mirage since a majority of it's dps can't be tested?

    psst, the answer is no ^^

    as you allready said yourself, party compostions can (and should) change to fit the situation.
    for expeirenced raiders (myself) that is zero isue as i have all classes experienced and raid ready

    for new players (you) big issue.
    1 condi dps and 1 power dps, as you suggested is therefor the ideal solution.

    mirage, condi renegade being the 2 best picks. and mirage being the better (and easier to play, also not to neglect for new players)
    for power there are several options to begin with

    soulbeast
    reaper
    dragonhunter

    those 3 are extremely easy to play.

    the real question should be: do i like these classes that i ask others players for me to play with

    Fair point about the confusion, makes sense.
    As for power, how is daredevil/Deadeye in overall compared to those 3?
    Also, I like not being useless or being dead, so its not a matter of me liking or not liking the classes, if I go around playing with something not suited chances are I'm not gonna learn much, so I'd rather just start with something that is useful and strong and expand from there, which is why I came asking.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2019

    @Tripzter.8623 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    well

    does a test golem attack you to trigger confusion?
    if the answer is no, then what's the point of testing mirage since a majority of it's dps can't be tested?

    psst, the answer is no ^^

    as you allready said yourself, party compostions can (and should) change to fit the situation.
    for expeirenced raiders (myself) that is zero isue as i have all classes experienced and raid ready

    for new players (you) big issue.
    1 condi dps and 1 power dps, as you suggested is therefor the ideal solution.

    mirage, condi renegade being the 2 best picks. and mirage being the better (and easier to play, also not to neglect for new players)
    for power there are several options to begin with

    soulbeast
    reaper
    dragonhunter

    those 3 are extremely easy to play.

    the real question should be: do i like these classes that i ask others players for me to play with

    Fair point about the confusion, makes sense.
    As for power, how is daredevil/Deadeye in overall compared to those 3?
    Also, I like not being useless or being dead, so its not a matter of me liking or not liking the classes, if I go around playing with something not suited chances are I'm not gonna learn much, so I'd rather just start with something that is useful and strong and expand from there, which is why I came asking.

    thief is in a pretty good spot. both power deadeye (double dagger, or rifle there are 2 different builds) and power daredevil are capable of 30k+ dps

    rifle deadeye is probably the easiest build to use, but it has zero (or close to zero) aoe which i find bad
    dagger deadeye pretty simmilar, mostly single target
    power daredevil is very good, but to start it with learning can be a pain (part of the damage is that you HAVE to dodge eevrytime you have a bar, for the extra damage)
    so if you are unfammiliar with an encounter, and empty of a dodgeroll that might be pretty bad outcome

    how about warrior? bannerslave warrior has high base health, high base armor. every group needs 1 and has a really easy rotation, while still dealing ok damage (+- 25k dps)

    i play mostly warrior because i like to do mechanics, so you feel "extra important" to the group in the terms off :
    if you screw up a mechanic, it's all on you
    if you succeed an encounter, it's all because of you

  • Tripzter.8623Tripzter.8623 Member
    edited May 25, 2019

    @melandru.3876 said:

    thief is in a pretty good spot. both power deadeye (double dagger, or rifle there are 2 different builds) and power daredevil are capable of 30k+ dps

    rifle deadeye is probably the easiest build to use, but it has zero (or close to zero) aoe which i find bad
    dagger deadeye pretty simmilar, mostly single target
    power daredevil is very good, but to start it with learning can be a pain (part of the damage is that you HAVE to dodge eevrytime you have a bar, for the extra damage)
    so if you are unfammiliar with an encounter, and empty of a dodgeroll that might be pretty bad outcome

    how about warrior? bannerslave warrior has high base health, high base armor. every group needs 1 and has a really easy rotation, while still dealing ok damage (+- 25k dps)

    i play mostly warrior because i like to do mechanics, so you feel "extra important" to the group in the terms off :
    if you screw up a mechanic, it's all on you
    if you succeed an encounter, it's all because of you

    I usually play with daredevil in the world and for bosses fractals etc, so I'm pretty used to the "dodge everytime you get a bar" mechanic, if need be i use staff 5 to dodge something unexpected.
    Which is why I asked how thief is doing, might just stick to it for power then, will read up and try deadeye soon, working on ascended rifle, got the daggers.
    I thought about going warrior, or healer, but since I'll be learning, I thought it would be better to learn as DPS and get one of those support builds running after I'm used to the fights, since the way I see it, if a DPS dies, the boss can still die most of the time, but if a support dies, its more likely to cause a wipe.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tripzter.8623 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    thief is in a pretty good spot. both power deadeye (double dagger, or rifle there are 2 different builds) and power daredevil are capable of 30k+ dps

    rifle deadeye is probably the easiest build to use, but it has zero (or close to zero) aoe which i find bad
    dagger deadeye pretty simmilar, mostly single target
    power daredevil is very good, but to start it with learning can be a pain (part of the damage is that you HAVE to dodge eevrytime you have a bar, for the extra damage)
    so if you are unfammiliar with an encounter, and empty of a dodgeroll that might be pretty bad outcome

    how about warrior? bannerslave warrior has high base health, high base armor. every group needs 1 and has a really easy rotation, while still dealing ok damage (+- 25k dps)

    i play mostly warrior because i like to do mechanics, so you feel "extra important" to the group in the terms off :
    if you screw up a mechanic, it's all on you
    if you succeed an encounter, it's all because of you

    I usually play with daredevil in the world and for bosses fractals etc, so I'm pretty used to the "dodge everytime you get a bar" mechanic, if need be i use staff 5 to dodge something unexpected.
    Which is why I asked how thief is doing, might just stick to it for power then, will read up and try deadeye soon, working on ascended rifle, got the daggers.
    I thought about going warrior, or healer, but since I'll be learning, I thought it would be better to learn as DPS and get one of those support builds running after I'm used to the fights, since the way I see it, if a DPS dies, the boss can still die most of the time, but if a support dies, its more likely to cause a wipe.

    the warrior is a support, but not your traditional support
    they drop banners, they have empower allies and that's it
    besides those 2 all that is expected from you is cc, where mace/mace is king and dps with axe/axe (or dagger/axe in case of no pain no gan fractals)

    but since you are fammiliar with fractals, why am i explaining all of this? ^^

    if you are fammiliar with daredevi just go for it, they are deffo valid option

  • DutchRiders.2871DutchRiders.2871 Member ✭✭✭

    I would go with condi mirrage and power daredevil/dead eye. You should consider adding power chrono/DH to the roster as well.

  • Tripzter.8623Tripzter.8623 Member
    edited May 25, 2019

    Thanks for the help, I will focus on mirage and the thief to start, and will probably add power chrono later. Will work on a warrior just in case aswell.

    About the condi mirage, Axe vs Scepter?
    Seems like most ppl use Axe, while Scepter allows for more Confusion stacks? is there a clear winner between the two?

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2019

    There are comprehensive guides an how to play classes. Check Snowcrows, metabatte or YouTube.

    Mirage is played with Axe+Torch and Axe+Pistol. That said, you do not want to wing this. Read up properly on your classes build, gear, utility and rotation.

    The difference between a self built mediocre build versus an optimized build is huge, and that's before factoring in for experience and practice.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I recomend mirage and DH. Mirage is meta on all condition bosses (both torment and confuisionis not represented on golem) and dh is very strong versetile power dps.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2019

    Mirage best condi imo-lot of evades, good dps
    Daredevil, dragonhunter best newbie power dps classes. Easy rotation good dps, and they bring something to party - cc from thief and stolen skills and healing, Aegis, syg from DH
    I personally play Mesmer since it has meta support, meta condi, and meta power classes in one. I guess power chrono will se further nerfs, but it's fun to play(and not that hard imo-u can que most of skills, without interrupts)

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    Mirage is the best condi DPS for all condi fights (potential 38-45k DPS depending on the encounter) with the sole exception of dhuum, where renegade is better. However, an easy-to learn condi DPS would be soulbeast that can still do respectable DPS, especially in a pug-environment. The soulbeast additionally has 2 builds afaik, SB+SB and SB+D/T.

    For power builds theres a wide range that are pretty beginner friendly. Dragonhunter, Power Soulbeast, and Kitless Holo are all good. Deadeye D/D is also a good build but Deadeye, while having a very simple rotation, requires good positioning to utilize it to maximum effect. Power Berserker is also a decent power build and honestly not that complex but requires managing Peak Performance and Headbutt-outrage combo to actually get decent numbers out of it; failure can lead to big drop offs in its DPS.

    Lastly, don't feel bad for asking questions. It's ok! It's how you learn.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2019

    @Tripzter.8623 said:
    Hey there,
    I'm not a raider, but would like to get into it, I raided a bit before PoF came out meaning its been a while.
    I've been trying to look for at least 2 picks to DPS in raids (a power build and a condi build) to start with but in snowcrows it doesn't seem to show all builds and every boss shows a different best comp so I'm having some trouble figuring out the best 2 to start with. Example: Cairn shows Mirage as best DPS but in the golems Mirage is not shown, so it's not easy to compare Mirage with other condi specs.
    Long story short, I'd like to know which 2 specs I should start with, and with time ill be able to get the others going.
    Sorry for the noob and confusing question.

    Thanks

    They don't bother doing benchmarks for Mirage anymore because A) confusion does next to no damage to the golem and B.) Mirage dps really revolves around each fight's specifics (spiking confusion right before certain attacks like on Largos or just going with a super tight rotation like on Cairn, etc...).

    Now if I were you, and had to pick one power class and one condi class to start raiding on (I don't know what classes you already have or how many character slots you have or whatever, so I'm just gonna generalize a few things) I would go with:
    Power: Either Daredevil or DragonHunter.
    Condi: Mirage or Renegade.

    The biggest pro of Daredevil is that as long as magnetic bomb exists in its current state, it will be the de-facto, top-dps pick in any fight where that's the stolen skill, while still doing very competitive dps in other fights... Like, there's not a power-dps encounter right now where DD is a bad choice. It also has somewhat of a carry potential on Sloth and Xera via the stolen 10-man mass cleanse and can help with boon uptime on MO/KC. And finally, it uses the same gear as deadeye builds, so if you want to go that route for certain bosses, it's a quick swap (i.e. a ranged Deimos group, daggers on Gorse, just cuz you feel like something different, etc, etc, etc...) The only con with choosing DD imo is that if it's dps gets randomly super-nerfed/gutted there's not much else you could do with it (boon/heal thief on MO/Matt, kiter on Qadim, but that's it really.)

    Dragonhunter offers strong dps with an insane burst that also especially punishes large hitboxes. DH really shines in fights with quick burst phases followed by downtime, or when you want to cleave a lot. It's especially effective when stacked, like in the meta-speed-run comps for VG/Gorse/Deimos, due to the sharing of retaliation and coordinated bursts being able to insta-phase the bosses. Basically if a fight has burst phases and doesn't have Magnetic Bomb as a stolen skill, DH is going to be king there (with a few exceptions where weaver beats it due to the insane size of the bosses hitbox like on CA.) Another big pro of DH is that you don't really need Spotter, so it's cool to not be in the druid's subgroup. DH has a little bit of utility via it's f2 mobility and f3 group block--you can be a bro and help your worser pug groups by blocking some very punishing mechanics like Sloth's shake or Qadim's meteor strike and very little loss of dps and your f2 (and gs3) leap can help a lot with mechanics like canons/shrooms/dropping poisons/etc. And finally, by going DH, you'll have a guardian on your roster that you can one day give multiple sets to, like Quickbrand or healbrand should you ever want to play those.

    For condi I would definitely go with Mirage... Mostly because (with the exception of Dhuum), Mirage either beats or does the same dps as Renegade, but it's a lot more forgiving of a rotation, and overall having a Mesmer on your roster will give you more opportunities than a Revenant, as you can make a boon chrono or a power dps chrono... Rev, on the other hand, just has Alacrigade as a realistic second option... Which, ya is cool to have (especially if you do fractal CM pugs), but is generally much less sought after in the LFG raid scene than chronos. Pugs still generally gravitate towards double chrono instead of chrono/firebrigade comps cuz it's easier to fill. Also, while their dps can be pretty close, you will sometimes run into pug groups that ONLY want a Mirage for things like Largos or Matt, and if you don't have a Mirage you can gtfo, but you very rarely(never) run into a group that ONLY wants Ren--not even for Dhum.

  • vyncius.6105vyncius.6105 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tripzter.8623 said:
    Hey there,
    I'm not a raider, but would like to get into it, I raided a bit before PoF came out meaning its been a while.
    I've been trying to look for at least 2 picks to DPS in raids (a power build and a condi build) to start with but in snowcrows it doesn't seem to show all builds and every boss shows a different best comp so I'm having some trouble figuring out the best 2 to start with. Example: Cairn shows Mirage as best DPS but in the golems Mirage is not shown, so it's not easy to compare Mirage with other condi specs.
    Long story short, I'd like to know which 2 specs I should start with, and with time ill be able to get the others going.
    Sorry for the noob and confusing question.

    Thanks

    I would say gear condi renegade and power dh or dd, condi renegade is kinda like playing piano, but it will be useful on 90% of bosses. You can also gear for alacrity renegade with diviners stats and have more flexibility

  • Kelieto.6375Kelieto.6375 Member ✭✭

    I will make this very easy for you by giving you some of the best options for a beginner:
    Pick one for Power: Dragonhunter/Daredevil/Holosmith
    Pick one for Condi: Soulbeast/Scourge

    Congratulations! You now have a viable dps for every raid boss!