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GW2's odd version of flying . . . Why can't your mount, like Just. Fly.??


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@"EmmetOtter.8542" said:It's a fantasy roleplaying computer game. They can do whatever they want. Anet could have made it look like a paper bag and called it flying, as long as it actually transported me through the air for as long as I wanted to be in the air.

Right now we got an undersized, asthmatic, out of shape, "dragon" that's gasping for breath and needs a break after like 200 yards.

When dragons picked teams for Dragon Ball, this guy wouldn't get picked until last and then they were all like "I don't want Gilbert, you take him" and "Naw man, I got him last time". This is what we got for a flyer.

And sadly, it's the best we got so yeah I'm going to bust my but getting him.

I know.And my point still is . . .The GW2 team tried to put a completely discombobulated false, artificial, constructof a mount into place.And they failed.Why?

BECAUSE IT MIMICS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN REAL LIFE!

At least the Raptor is believable.It seems like a real animal.It moves, shimmies, sits, rises, scratches itself,does sooo many things a REAL animal would do.

If you have a pet, you will know exactly what I am saying.

The Griffon and Skyscale mimic absolutely NOTHING in real life.That is why they FEEL false,feel like a mockery of real animals,and that is why they fail.

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@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:At least the Raptor is believable.They all are believable to me. Maybe I just start with fewer preconceptions about how things should or shouldn't work in the game.

It seems like a real animal.It moves, shimmies, sits, rises, scratches itself,does sooo many things a REAL animal would do.The other mounts also do things I'd associate with beasts.

and that is why they fail.For you. Keep in mind that the game's population is vast; there are all sorts of opinions.

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@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:Well, you have a point.

The Raptor mount is a perfectly realistic example ofa prehistoric animal

Not really. For a raptor to be a perfectly realistic example of a dinossaur, it would need to have feathers.

The fossil evidence is still out on that.Most paleontologists are divided on that issue.There are peer-reviewed journal research articles that come down on either side of that viewpoint.

I suppose you haven’t seen the fossils for Yutyrannus, Microraptor, or Archeopteryx but that’s besides the point here.

True flying would be game breaking and render other mounts as obsolete. It’s not so much about realism but about balance.

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@Warscythes.9307 said:

Also please stop typing with a new line after every word, is obnoxious.

Our writing styles differ.Are you the English Professor on this forum,who has the ability to critique others who do not follow your dictates?

Get a grip.

No I am not the English Professor on this forum, but I do have the ability to critique others as do everybody else. You are allowed to listen or not, it doesn't matter as I am not your mother. But it would help to at least try to hear what other people thinks, especially when you are trying to voice an opinion on a topic.

But you criticized my writing style,

I was not so crude to criticize yours.

I don't have to resort to petty ad hominem attacks, based on writing styles.

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@"Kabuki Theatre.9752" said:And how Exactlywould it "ruin the game."?

Before mounts were introduced, the game had a set traveling mechanic: waypoints, plus by foot. If you could fly over everything just like that, not only would old means of traveling become obsolete, new maps would also no longer pose a challenge at all when it comes to map completion (as verticality would no longer matter). The point of map completion is to thoroughly explore a new map.

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@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:If you have a pet, you will know exactly what I am saying.

The Griffon and Skyscale mimic absolutely NOTHING in real life.That is why they FEEL false,feel like a mockery of real animals,and that is why they fail.

I do not care about that. Skyscale is advertised as a flying mount and it flies, for an absurdly short distance. Like a car capable of a max speed of 30 mph that quits after 5 blocks and you have to wait until it rolls to a slow stop before starting it again and driving for another 5 blocks.

It barely qualifies. And the limitation is intended. And it's annoying. But since the game really doesn't have anything better...

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@TheGrill.4896 said:

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:Well, you have a point.

The Raptor mount is a perfectly realistic example ofa prehistoric animal

Not really. For a raptor to be a perfectly realistic example of a dinossaur, it would need to have feathers.

The fossil evidence is still out on that.Most paleontologists are divided on that issue.There are peer-reviewed journal research articles that come down on either side of that viewpoint.

I suppose you haven’t seen the fossils for Yutyrannus, Microraptor, or Archeopteryx but that’s besides the point here.

I simply do not accept or believe that false analogy "game balance" asthe be all and end all excuse for "anything goes and nothing is impossible"mentality for MMOs.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

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  • It's a Design decision. The developers didn't want players to have a mount that "just flies". (For several reasons we can guess at, but only they can confirm, and it doesn't really matter since it's their choice anyways).
  • Realism in a video game is whatever the developers says it is.
  • How many birds have you seen carry a fully grown man on its back, and for how long ?

Realism:

We have a game where we kill dragons with circus-toy-weapons, run around in costumes so dumb looking even a Disney princess wouldn't be seen in it, where npc's hail the biggest murder-hobo in the world that goes around seeing ghosts, talking to the air, murdering random critters out of random, sits by and watch as centaurs slaughter them, as the great savior commander of the world. I'm fairly confident that the Player Character acting the way they do would have gotten hung at any part of history prior to 1900, and put in an asylum at any period after, if we where going to be realistic.

And lets not get into the topic of hover-crafting lazer great-swords with purple glows and rainbows!

Oh, and we can walk on illusions projected by light from Asura machines. Go physics!

I mean if we're going to get realistic then start adding: Stamina bars that deplete constantly while mounted and more if rushing, the need to buy new saddles, horse-shoes (or similar), constantly feed, train, deal with bad days as the mount refuses to out in rain or snow, panicking at all the monsters around in the world, running away while you're mining a node, and refusing to jump out that cliffs edge throwing you off instead. So much fun.


TLDR: Don't mix realism with game mechanics/design, the game is supposed to be fun and "gamey". Making each mount have different but limited movement abilities is a way to give gamers some new gamey ways to deal with situations in new ways.

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It's not a matter of lore. It's a matter of logistics. Gw2 is not WoW. If you want flying mounts with no restraints, go there. If you want to have SOME semblance of skill and mastery required to fully get the most out of every mount, and every mount that comes out after the initial ones not making the previous ones worthless, then you stick with what we got.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/gw2-griffon-path-of-fire-secret-design

Propose a flying mount in Guild Wars 2, and there’s an obvious challenge in that its content to date has been designed with players’ feet firmly on the ground.

“We knew we had to be careful with how we went about tackling ‘flying’ in the game,” says Cronacher. “If we did free flight it would break a lot of content and invalidate the other mounts, which we didn’t want to do. We had to find a balance of feeling like the flight was natural and fun, but focused on player skill and manipulation, rather than free omnidirectional flight.”

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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Kabuki Theatre.9752" said:And how Exactlywould it "ruin the game."?

Before mounts were introduced, the game had a set traveling mechanic: waypoints, plus by foot. If you could fly over everything just like that, not only would old means of traveling become obsolete, new maps would also no longer pose a challenge at all when it comes to map completion (as verticality would no longer matter). The point of map completion is to thoroughly explore a new map.

I would like to ask you one simple question ---How is it that so many other MMOshave implemented flying creatures into their games,without completely destroying their creations?

Is this not possible within the GW2 environment?OR

is GW2 the great exception to the rule?

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@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

Please explain to me in plain words,how a bird,behaving exactly like a real bird,is somehow artificial?

By carrying a person on its back when it shouldn't be.

And the mythical Griffon and Skyscale is being realistic by carrying people on its back?At least an Eagle can carry off a sheep with no problem at all.

You asked how a bird in this game, behaving like a real bird, is artificial.

It's artificial because it's carrying a person on its back. When a real bird that can take flight carries a person on its back let me know.

It is artificial because it is a false construct.Birds do not going through a false discombobulation of jumping, leaping, gliding, and caterwaulingJust.Simply.To.Fly.

It is an artificial construct by GW2 to imagine a flying creature that does not evenbegin to mimic nature.Something that would be so easy to do.

Actually, if you did some research you would find that there are real birds that do some of the above before taking flight, they may not do all 4 together but there are birds that do 1 of those things before it takes off...so it's not really artificial at all. No, I will not find them for you, if it's that important to you then look it up yourself, or you can just believe I've watched enough nature programs to know better.

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@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:And how Exactlywould it "ruin the game."?

Before mounts were introduced, the game had a set traveling mechanic: waypoints, plus by foot. If you could fly over everything just like that, not only would old means of traveling become obsolete, new maps would also no longer pose a challenge at all when it comes to map completion (as verticality would no longer matter). The point of map completion is to thoroughly explore a new map.

I would like to ask you one simple question ---How is it that so many other MMOshave implemented flying creatures into their games,without completely destroying their creations?

Is this not possible within the GW2 environment?OR

is GW2 the great exception to the rule?

Propose a flying mount in Guild Wars 2, and there’s an obvious challenge in that its content to date has been designed with players’ feet firmly on the ground.

“We knew we had to be careful with how we went about tackling ‘flying’ in the game,” says Cronacher. “If we did free flight it would break a lot of content and invalidate the other mounts, which we didn’t want to do. We had to find a balance of feeling like the flight was natural and fun, but focused on player skill and manipulation, rather than free omnidirectional flight.”

They dont WANT omnidirectional free flight. This is what they have chosen for their game. If you don't like it, this game is not for you.

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@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:And how Exactlywould it "ruin the game."?

Before mounts were introduced, the game had a set traveling mechanic: waypoints, plus by foot. If you could fly over everything just like that, not only would old means of traveling become obsolete, new maps would also no longer pose a challenge at all when it comes to map completion (as verticality would no longer matter). The point of map completion is to thoroughly explore a new map.

I would like to ask you one simple question ---How is it that so many other MMOshave implemented flying creatures into their games,without completely destroying their creations?

Do they have map completion implemented as a game mechanic? I don't think they do.

I am neither Blizzard nor ANet, so you should ask them, not me. ;)

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@"joneirikb.7506" said:

  • It's a Design decision. The developers didn't want players to have a mount that "just flies". (For several reasons we can guess at, but only they can confirm, and it doesn't really matter since it's their choice anyways).
  • Realism in a video game is whatever the developers says it is.
  • How many birds have you seen carry a fully grown man on its back, and for how long ?

Realism:

We have a game where we kill dragons with circus-toy-weapons, run around in costumes so dumb looking even a Disney princess wouldn't be seen in it, where npc's hail the biggest murder-hobo in the world that goes around seeing ghosts, talking to the air, murdering random critters out of random, sits by and watch as centaurs slaughter them, as the great savior commander of the world. I'm fairly confident that the Player Character acting the way they do would have gotten hung at any part of history prior to 1900, and put in an asylum at any period after, if we where going to be realistic.

And lets not get into the topic of hover-crafting lazer great-swords with purple glows and rainbows!

Oh, and we can walk on illusions projected by light from Asura machines. Go physics!

I mean if we're going to get realistic then start adding: Stamina bars that deplete constantly while mounted and more if rushing, the need to buy new saddles, horse-shoes (or similar), constantly feed, train, deal with bad days as the mount refuses to out in rain or snow, panicking at all the monsters around in the world, running away while you're mining a node, and refusing to jump out that cliffs edge throwing you off instead. So much fun.


TLDR: Don't mix realism with game mechanics/design, the game is supposed to be fun and "gamey". Making each mount have different but limited movement abilities is a way to give gamers some new gamey ways to deal with situations in new ways.

THIS!!!This is by far

BY FAR

the most intelligent,succinctand having the most Bravadoof any response on this thread so far!!

Excellent, Sir or Madame!!

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@"Kabuki Theatre.9752" said:And how Exactlywould it "ruin the game."?Seems to me other MMOs have not been"ruined"by having flying mounts that act just like real birds.

I'm pretty sure you can use search in those "other games" forums right now, and find threads detailing how unlimited flying ruined the experience there too. With the main argument being that unlimited flying allows you to pretty much "skip" the persistent world you were supposed to be playing in. Which would be a shame considering the work been put into those worlds. GW2 world is even more detailed so it would be a double shame here.

Also GW2, unlike some other MMOs, usually tries to avoid making older content obsolete in favor of a new, blatantly OP option.

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@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:Well, you have a point.

The Raptor mount is a perfectly realistic example ofa prehistoric animal

Not really. For a raptor to be a perfectly realistic example of a dinossaur, it would need to have feathers.

The fossil evidence is still out on that.Most paleontologists are divided on that issue.There are peer-reviewed journal research articles that come down on either side of that viewpoint.

I suppose you haven’t seen the fossils for Yutyrannus, Microraptor, or Archeopteryx but that’s besides the point here.

I simply do not accept or believe that false analogy "game balance" asthe be all and end all excuse for "anything goes and nothing is impossible"mentality for MMOs.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

This game is not WoW and it won’t be like it when it comes to mounts. I don’t know what else to tell you.

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Well, at the risk of sounding flippant...it's because it's Tyria...not Earth. Maybe the gravity is too strong for extended flight, or the air too thin. Within the game, it really is up to you to come up with your own reason. IRL, the folks at Anet have actually stated they did this for reasons mentioned above: they don't want people simply flying over everything. The way points already allow you to bypass most of the content...I guess they want us to enjoy the rest.

BTW, irl a chicken has wings, and can launch itself off the ground, but cannot fly. 'Course, can't hover either.

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In WoW mounts are glorified speedboosts. It's one of the amazing designs in GW2, that all the mounts feel different, and you actually have to do something to stay in the air (the griffon can permanently stay in the air with all the masteries). WoW mounts are incredibly boring.

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@TheGrill.4896 said:

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:Well, you have a point.

The Raptor mount is a perfectly realistic example ofa prehistoric animal

Not really. For a raptor to be a perfectly realistic example of a dinossaur, it would need to have feathers.

The fossil evidence is still out on that.Most paleontologists are divided on that issue.There are peer-reviewed journal research articles that come down on either side of that viewpoint.

I suppose you haven’t seen the fossils for Yutyrannus, Microraptor, or Archeopteryx but that’s besides the point here.

I simply do not accept or believe that false analogy "game balance" asthe be all and end all excuse for "anything goes and nothing is impossible"mentality for MMOs.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

This game is not WoW and it won’t be like it when it comes to mounts. I don’t know what else to tell you.

I certainly don't expect it to be anything like WoW,nor would I want it to be, at all.

However, the bird mounts in WoW are farmore realistic than GW2,because they don't impose these artificial constructs where they do not need to exist.They just behavelike real birds.

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@yusayu.3629 said:In WoW mounts are glorified speedboosts. It's one of the amazing designs in GW2, that all the mounts feel different, and you actually have to do something to stay in the air (the griffon can permanently stay in the air with all the masteries). WoW mounts are incredibly boring.

WoW mounts are boring to those who have not mastered them.

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@yusayu.3629 said:In WoW mounts are glorified speedboosts. It's one of the amazing designs in GW2, that all the mounts feel different, and you actually have to do something to stay in the air (the griffon can permanently stay in the air with all the masteries). WoW mounts are incredibly boring.

WoW mounts are only incredibly boring to people that have not totally mastered them.If you spend the time, energy, sweat, and purpose, they are exceedingly resourceful adjuncts.Worth every penny of time spent, and flamboyantly desirable possessions.Beyond belief if you get a Really, Really Good One.

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A big reason as to why they did the mounts the way they did was because it's Guild Wars. Mounts that provide functionality and don't feel just like a movement speed boost is a fundamental component of GW1 like having swords in a fantasy game. Some examples of these are the siege devourer that you can high jack in Eye of the North and the Wurm.

Asking for mounts to just be copy paste WoW mounts with no real weight or life in them is like asking for the ability to use potions in combat in the Witcher. Yes in other games you can do that but that's not part of the world or the dynamic of the game.

Also flying mounts ruined WoW, many of the lead devs even came out and said it. It killed PvP servers because you can just fly past everything and druids were ultra Troll with the ability to knock people out of the sky before the models would load. Best update in BC was Isle of Quel Danas because everyone was close by, on the ground and you could just gank each other so much the peace keeping patrols would expand their patrol circles to the point that they'd be swimming off of the island. This is also a big reason as to why Classic WoW is catching steam. Everything feels big again, everyone is on the ground, no bullshit problems that came with flying mounts especially on PvP servers. The most fun PvP in WoW is in world zones where everyone is on the ground like stranglethorn pvp in vanilla or raid ganks when people were still on Molten Core and Black Wing Lair.

It went downhill after Wrath of the Lich King. Game felt super empty even on full servers cus nothing loaded and most of the time spent was sitting in Dalaran in Q for another dungeon. Unless you were raiding, you may as well have just been playing an instance multiplayer game like left 4 dead because you only ever saw 4 other people on average. Most people I ever saw out in the world at a time in WoW throughout the time I played after vanilla is like maybe 5 people max on a full pvp server unless it was progression night, flying was a big reason why.

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We already had this discussion many times over.The answers are going to be no different: That GW2 is not WoW, it's not supposed to be WoW, and the Devs and majority of players are happy it isn't WoW. I'm not telling anyone to shove off here but given that that's what the answer has always boiled down to and probably always will, surely if you want to play WoW, just go play WoW.Don't try to make one game into another, games are supposed to be diverse. It's better this way. You'd get bored real quick if everything you logged into was same old same old.(Seriously though the best thing to do is to enjoy things on their own merit. Hope you find your joy.)

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