GW2's odd version of flying . . . Why can't your mount, like Just. Fly.??

[Ashantara.8731]

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:Why?Why is it so problematic that players can fly?

We have already given you detailed answers to your question. Asking the same thing over and over won't change a thing. Get over it.

[Mewcifer.5198]

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:WoW mounts are boring to those who have not mastered them.

I am incredibly curious about what you mean by this. Please explain what it takes to master WoW mounts.

I am also incredibly curious about this.

[borgs.6103]

We had a permanently flying mount - Aurene. :p Too bad she disappeared.

[Kal Spiro.9745]

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

@"EmmetOtter.8542" said:It's a fantasy roleplaying computer game. They can do whatever they want. Anet could have made it look like a paper bag and called it flying, as long as it actually transported me through the air for as long as I wanted to be in the air.

Right now we got an undersized, asthmatic, out of shape, "dragon" that's gasping for breath and needs a break after like 200 yards.

When dragons picked teams for Dragon Ball, this guy wouldn't get picked until last and then they were all like "I don't want Gilbert, you take him" and "Naw man, I got him last time". This is what we got for a flyer.

And sadly, it's the best we got so yeah I'm going to bust my but getting him.

I know.And my point still is . . .The GW2 team tried to put a completely discombobulated false, artificial, constructof a mount into place.And they failed.Why?

BECAUSE IT MIMICS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN REAL LIFE!

At least the Raptor is believable.It seems like a real animal.It moves, shimmies, sits, rises, scratches itself,does sooo many things a REAL animal would do.

If you have a pet, you will know exactly what I am saying.

The Griffon and Skyscale mimic absolutely NOTHING in real life.That is why they FEEL false,feel like a mockery of real animals,and that is why they fail.

Is it a poem? Am I supposed to be reading it to a beat? Why is it broken up like this? It provides nothing to the argument. Though, realistically, I don't know why there even is an argument. You clearly don't care about what anyone else actually has to say here. You offhandedly dismiss valid arguments that quite effectively answer your question, while coming back over and over with an invalid approach to the question.

Birds can't hover. Humming birds are literally the only birds able to hover because they flap their wings similarly to insects. But no other type of birds can hover. Nothing moving it's wings that slowly can hover. Birds can't fly backwards, not to any extended degree. All flying mounts in other games are ridiculously unrealistic, so how can you come in here and argue for the realism of any such mounts? These mounts are not designed to be realistic. No mounts, in any game, are designed to be realistic. Mounts are designed to fulfill a purpose. In most games it's to traverse the map faster than walking. In this game it's to do that, and also to accomplish a variety of specific extra features. That's why. That's why we don't just have a bird that can fly like a bird, which can't like like any flying mount in any other game ever made anyway.

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

In WoW, there are Many mounts that require work . . .blood, sweat, and tears,to master.To become really, really good with them.

Please don't generalize about things that are false.Many WoW mounts require a LOT of work to master.The fact that you did notdoes not mean they are boring.It means you did not do the work to master them.

Okay as another WoW player I’m going to have to stop you here.

There is nothing to “master” about WoW mounts. They all function the same (either a land, aquatic, or flying mount) and the only difference between them is appearance.

Either the mount flies, in which case you can simply fly, or it doesn’t. Nothing changes. There is nothing to master about it.

If you don’t like how this game handles flying, or what ever it is, you need to actually open your ears and listen to the reasoning people are giving. You’re currently acting like a complete loon and this is why no one actually enjoys discussing this topic with you.

[WinterSolstice.7829]

The game series has always been exploring possibilities to exploration. Not anti exploration of avoiding the entire map all-together. Seemless sort of easy would be by moving around with admin commands, every map in the game would need full on updated patching, with the updating would be more restrictions to the fun secret stuff, the game for over half it's being around was more about being able to jump and swim around to really rewarding places for the eyes and ears. If they make a full on flying, I'd have to quit because there will be no more fun and sport in it. Griffon and bunny were map-breaker mounts. Skyscale improved bunny basically. The game seems to favoring the exploring the magics of Tyria and their balances as a direction, so I'm sure we're going to see other travel variations and ways to interact with the world. This really isn't very negotiable of a subject to change. We're better off asking for cape glider to feel like a super hero.

[Hashberry.4510]

I enjoyed WoW style mounts for a bit, but yes, they hurt that game. Gorgeous terrain that was clearly designed to funnel players to an encounter, bypassed in the rush to end game raiding. I can see why the devs put some partial limits on them in that game.

I am not enchanted with how Anet has handled mounts as the game progresses though; they really need to think of something else.

[Rio.4259]

@"castlemanic.3198" said:I am incredibly curious about what you mean by this. Please explain what it takes to master WoW mounts.

You need like...11,000 gold or something...to make them go like...5x as fast...I think. -shrugs-

Personally I don't really care either way. I'll be honest, sometimes I DO wish I could just soar above the endless packed veteran mobs that stun, pull back, and knock down for 7 seconds, as I try to get to that one remaining PoI that I need as I clear a map for the 12th time. Yeah I know, it would make the other mounts less desirable. But honestly, that already happens. I NEVER use the Skimmer or Jackal because the Raptor and Griffon make them completely pointless except in very situational moments, or when a collection or something requires a Jackal portal. It could also be argued that the Griffon and Skyscale made gliders completely pointless, too. At one time I was in the "no, dont add it" crowd. Now I'm kind of in the "meh, doesn't matter to me either way" crowd. But yeah, Anet made it pretty clear that's not what they want anyway.

[Goettel.4389]

@"Kabuki Theatre.9752" said:having flying mounts that act just like real birds.

No "real birds" I've seen are able to hover indefinitely.And I much prefer GW2's flying mounts over the simplistic WoW mounts, which require no skill at all.

[BlueJin.4127]

I loved flying in WoW. When I play GW2, I sometimes wish that I can fly like WoW. However, in the end, I think it's better not to have WoW-like flying in GW2.

1) The center of the reason I quit WoW is the whole flying debacle from a few years ago. Open world in WoW is very annoying without flying mounts. Many areas are densely populated and enemies can easily knock players off of ground mounts with 1 or 2 hits. Upon being knocked off, players are repeatedly crippled and are basically forced to fight because they can't even just run away on foot. This made ground traveling a pain, so many players were outraged when Blizzard (WoW devs) tried to remove flying in future contents, forcing players to waste time fighting unnecessary enemies just to get from one area to another, in a game with monthly sub fee. After the outrage, Blizzard made a sacrifice where players can use flying mounts, but only after ridiculous grinds and such. Many players just quit altogether.

I really don't want to see this kind of debacle here (and we actually have a somewhat similar issue with long PoF aggro range).

2) In WoW, ground mounts are nothing but speed boosts. Levels designs are boring and not creative, not making any particular use of ground mounts or movement skills. Levels might as well just be flat 2D designs with tall walls like a maze that players must run around. Honestly, despite some people's claims that flying negated WoW's design... it didn't. The only thing flying did is allow players to skip unnecessary enemies since level designs weren't creative enough to make use of being grounded.

GW2's level design is nothing like that. This game actually makes good use of players' movements, HoT masteries, and PoF mount masteries. With full flying, many of these designs would actually become obsolete, unlike WoW.

Personally, I really like the mounts we have now. Traveling on mounts in GW2 is fun. With full flying, I'd just be watching a video while alt-tabbed.

[derd.6413]

given the replies i'd say that this post was top tier bait

[mortrialus.3062]

@"Kabuki Theatre.9752" said:Reading the following in another thread:

"I just realized something. With the Skyscale, this is an infinite elevator though a slow one. Get to the highest point you can with the skyscale/springer, jump with the springer, Bound of Faith, glide, mount the Skyscale (that's the first mastery and works just like the Griffon). Use your new flight bar to go up, hover until Bound of Faith cools down, repeat. Unless you lose as much or more altitude gliding before you can re-mount, you could go as high as you wanted this way."

Holy. Moly.

In other MMOs, let's just say WoW for now, but there are numerous others,when you get a flying mount,

It.Just.Flies.

No gliding, climbing, launching, jumping, etc.

Just.Like.An.Actual.Bird.You know, it just takes off, flies through the sky, and then lands wherever it feels like.Like an actual Eagle, Condor, Robin, Wren, Starling, Crow, or

Pterodactyl.

What gives?Flight by bird-like beings has been around for Billions of Years.

Why complicate it so much?

What EXACTLY is the point with flying mounts GW2 wants to make SO COMPLICATED???

Every time Blizzard was asked about their greatest regret the developers always said every time that it was true flying mounts.

They invalidated huge portions of the game world and exploration, destroyed a lot of emergent gameplay like world pvp and even the joy of finding people to quest with in the open world.

And once that convenience was in game they could never take it out. They couldnt have continents that didnt have flying. Every time they tried the forum threads would cap out with complaints. Even restricting flying until reaching the new level cap in new zones was contentious.

It was and still is a nightmare and blizzard frequently maintained that they wish they never added them so they could avoid how they trivialized a lot of their open world and players wouldnt have gotten so accustomed to trivializing the open world.

So hopefully Arenanet never makes that mistake and makes a mount that funtionally has no clip on as it just flies through the air and maintains serious restrictions on any sort of flying mount. The Skyscale is already nuts and probably warrants a nerf, able to climb on top of the durmand priory and on top of Mordremoth's tree, and fly high up enough to make expose how fake certain maps like Tangled Depths look from that high perspective.

[serialkicker.5274]

Judging by how boring and simplistic open world is in other mmos, I wonder not people wish to skip all of it by flying over.Maybe my Griffon could "fly for real" if it didn't carry a big cat in full plate on it's back :)

Also, in other mmos, mounts are usually just speed buff, nothing special about them. In gw2, each of them have their advantage and special movements, that, combined with other means of traveling like gliding, provides some dynamic and fun way to move around. If you had a mount that could fly for real, all of that would become obsolete. Gliding wouldn't exist anymore.

[zealex.9410]

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

@Trise.2865 said:

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

@Trise.2865 said:Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

Please explain to me in plain words,how a bird,behaving exactly like a real bird,is somehow artificial?

They already do

, but that's not the point. The point is

players

being able to fly is a bad thing for the game.

Why?Why is it so problematic that players can fly?

Because maps either have to be designed with it in mind or they end up being reduced to a b line.

[Rico.6873]

A mount that can fly everywhere would be too Op, the more restrictions you have on a mount the more freedom you have.We humans cannot fly as well, which is why we found other ways to fly even if those ways are limited

[Echostorm.9143]

Here come the Doom Speakers. Flying will break the game! People will be able to skip content!! Wait. Don't we just run and fly past content now? When you're on your way to AB meta do you kill everything in your path or do you just ride to the gate? Do you stop for every single random meta when crossing a map because you have no choice? Does being on the ground with your raptor make those ground events unavoidable?

The argument that a flying mount would break the game is silly when you actually think about it. As it is we skip things anyway and there is no part of a map we can't get to as is. This comes down to 2 things, 1. fan bois who just parrot whatever they've heard from anet before without thinking about it critically. (I promise if an anet dev said flying was good they'd all change their minds rather dramatically) and 2. The Fun Police. They just want people the play the game exactly the same way they do. They think gaming should be hard and they resent anything that makes it easier for the unwashed masses playing 'their' game. If it was up to them there would be no mounts and no waypoints either. If people don't have 8 hours a day to grind in the game they are not worthy sayeth the Fun Police.

Having a truly flying mount wouldn't hurt the game at all, but it might be fun. :)

PS> The only people that flying ruined wow for are the types in this thread. Wow still has a massive amount more subs than gw could ever hope to have so lets retire that argument too please.

[flog.3485]

@Echostorm.9143 said:Here come the Doom Speakers. Flying will break the game! People will be able to skip content!! Wait. Don't we just run and fly past content now? When you're on your way to AB meta do you kill everything in your path or do you just ride to the gate? Do you stop for every single random meta when crossing a map because you have no choice? Does being on the ground with your raptor make those ground events unavoidable?

The argument that a flying mount would break the game is silly when you actually think about it. As it is we skip things anyway and there is no part of a map we can't get to as is. This comes down to 2 things, 1. fan bois who just parrot whatever they've heard from anet before without thinking about it critically. (I promise if an anet dev said flying was good they'd all change their minds rather dramatically) and 2. The Fun Police. They just want people the play the game exactly the same way they do. They think gaming should be hard and they resent anything that makes it easier for the unwashed masses playing 'their' game. If it was up to them there would be no mounts and no waypoints either. If people don't have 8 hours a day to grind in the game they are not worthy sayeth the Fun Police.

Aaaand that is exactly why we do not need flying mounts. Here is deal: if we assume that so many stuffs can already skipped without a flying mount, then there is no reason to add a fully flying mount because in terms of game mechanics, nothing will be more OP than using a waypoint.

That said they could add fully flying mounts. However for that, we would need to have flying mobs, flying obstacles and a fully developed flying combat system. Is it worth the cost ? I don’t think so personally.

[serialkicker.5274]

@Echostorm.9143 said:Here come the Doom Speakers. Flying will break the game! People will be able to skip content!! Wait. Don't we just run and fly past content now? When you're on your way to AB meta do you kill everything in your path or do you just ride to the gate? Do you stop for every single random meta when crossing a map because you have no choice? Does being on the ground with your raptor make those ground events unavoidable?

The argument that a flying mount would break the game is silly when you actually think about it. As it is we skip things anyway and there is no part of a map we can't get to as is. This comes down to 2 things, 1. fan bois who just parrot whatever they've heard from anet before without thinking about it critically. (I promise if an anet dev said flying was good they'd all change their minds rather dramatically) and 2. The Fun Police. They just want people the play the game exactly the same way they do. They think gaming should be hard and they resent anything that makes it easier for the unwashed masses playing 'their' game. If it was up to them there would be no mounts and no waypoints either. If people don't have 8 hours a day to grind in the game they are not worthy sayeth the Fun Police.

Having a truly flying mount wouldn't hurt the game at all, but it might be fun. :)

PS> The only people that flying ruined wow for are the types in this thread. Wow still has a massive amount more subs than gw could ever hope to have so lets retire that argument too please.

As a matter of fact, yes, a lot of people do events. Don't generalize and count those who come for final chest of meta as a whole population. Every event I come across, if I decide to do it, even if I'm the only one there at the moment, there is a very good chance I'll get some company very quick. I actually even noticed, which should be quite obvious, that people are even encouraged to pitch in if they see someone already doing an event. If you fly over with your super dragon directly towards your target area of final chest, you won't even notice most events, let alone care to actually swoop down to help. When I'm on my raptor, I stop to help a lot more often than I do when on griffon. When I'm on griffon, I want to fly as long as possible, because it's fun or because I have my destination set.Not to mention, you would totally make gliding obsolete with flying mount, as well as probably most other mounts. Heck, griffon and skyscale would definetly become insta useless.Right now you have to use different ways and mechanics to explore - each mount has their own advantage and uses. Then you have gliding, bouncing mushrooms, updrafts, ley lines etc... With flying mount, all of this would become ruined and obsolete.

PS> The only people that flying ruined wow for are the types in this thread. Wow still has a massive amount more subs than gw could ever hope to have so lets retire that argument too please.Yeah, surely, millions more chose WoW because it has a flying mount and it doesn't have anything to do with it being there way before gw2 in golden time of mmos where genre was at it's peak. If WoW was released today, no one would touch it.

[Cyninja.2954]

@"Echostorm.9143" said:Here come the Doom Speakers. Flying will break the game! People will be able to skip content!! Wait. Don't we just run and fly past content now? When you're on your way to AB meta do you kill everything in your path or do you just ride to the gate? Do you stop for every single random meta when crossing a map because you have no choice? Does being on the ground with your raptor make those ground events unavoidable?

The argument that a flying mount would break the game is silly when you actually think about it. As it is we skip things anyway and there is no part of a map we can't get to as is. This comes down to 2 things, 1. fan bois who just parrot whatever they've heard from anet before without thinking about it critically. (I promise if an anet dev said flying was good they'd all change their minds rather dramatically) and 2. The Fun Police. They just want people the play the game exactly the same way they do. They think gaming should be hard and they resent anything that makes it easier for the unwashed masses playing 'their' game. If it was up to them there would be no mounts and no waypoints either. If people don't have 8 hours a day to grind in the game they are not worthy sayeth the Fun Police.

Having a truly flying mount wouldn't hurt the game at all, but it might be fun. :)

PS> The only people that flying ruined wow for are the types in this thread. Wow still has a massive amount more subs than gw could ever hope to have so lets retire that argument too please.

Yes, that's why Draenor was originally planned without ANY flying and Blizzard was forced to backpedal because a freedom once given can't be as easily taken away (and the fact people had spent hundreds of hours farming and/or buying flying mounts).

Relevant article, interviews and summaries here:https://www.polygon.com/2015/5/22/8645293/world-of-warcraft-no-flying-tanaan-jungle-warlords-of-draenor-mmo-pc-blizzardhttps://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4911-Dev-Interview-No-More-Flying-May-22-Hotfixes-Blue-Tweets-WoW-Marathon-Record

Now you can be oblivious, you can be ignorant, you can even disagree with developers and argue any of those points. The one thing you can't argue though is that flying does not create serious issues.

WoW is always given as an example as to flying working. That's simply not true, flying in WoW has created issues (to this day) and was so inconvenient to balance for, that the developers went as far as to plan an entire expansion without it. The only reason it remained was due to massive player backlash for removing this given freedom. To this day, new expansions are launched with flying disabled by the way. Maybe give that reason a thought and how this could cause even greater issues for a game like GW2 where there is no disposable zones as in WoW.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Echostorm.9143 said:Here come the Doom Speakers. Flying will break the game! People will be able to skip content!! Wait. Don't we just run and fly past content now? When you're on your way to AB meta do you kill everything in your path or do you just ride to the gate? Do you stop for every single random meta when crossing a map because you have no choice? Does being on the ground with your raptor make those ground events unavoidable?

The argument that a flying mount would break the game is silly when you actually think about it. As it is we skip things anyway and there is no part of a map we can't get to as is. This comes down to 2 things, 1. fan bois who just parrot whatever they've heard from anet before without thinking about it critically. (I promise if an anet dev said flying was good they'd all change their minds rather dramatically) and 2. The Fun Police. They just want people the play the game exactly the same way they do. They think gaming should be hard and they resent anything that makes it easier for the unwashed masses playing 'their' game. If it was up to them there would be no mounts and no waypoints either. If people don't have 8 hours a day to grind in the game they are not worthy sayeth the Fun Police.

Having a truly flying mount wouldn't hurt the game at all, but it might be fun. :)

PS> The only people that flying ruined wow for are the types in this thread. Wow still has a massive amount more subs than gw could ever hope to have so lets retire that argument too please.

And yet the most buzz WoW has generated since Warlords of Draenor was released is Classic WoW, a version before flying mounts were added, after Blizzard went on the authentic vanilla private servers once the known active population of several of the most popular ones collectively reached over 1.5 million players.

[zallesz.1650]

Flying in WoW deleted many of the challenges of open world, pve and pvp. Now there is no danger of "standing at one place" anymore, you just fly up and danger is gone. GW2 also made it easier to bypass content that is happening on the ground, but did not completely eliminate it, and I am grateful for that.The game is meant to be played, not flown over. Games should be more about the journey and not the destination. A lot of people seem to forget that.Edit:grammar.

[Clyan.1593]

@"Kabuki Theatre.9752" said:And how Exactlywould it "ruin the game."?Seems to me other MMOs have not been"ruined"by having flying mounts that act just like real birds.

You seem not to understand what the mounts in GW2 are. They aren't mounts in a classical sense. Each of these fulfill a specific role, they come with a functionality, extending gameplay mechanics. This is also the reason why ANet adding mounts didn't ruin the game, they implemented them with a certain idea in mind.Having a mount that can endlessly elevate and fly however and wherever you like would make all of them more or less obsolete. You no longer need to think how to reach a certain spot. It's just hoping on the bird and fly there. It would ruin the game indeed - it's also the reason why WOW is super stale after acquiring the flying mount. Yes it's efficient, because you can go straight from A to B, but man, it's just plain boring.

[Hesacon.8735]

It's like how a 5 ounce bird can't carry a one pound coconut.

[verskore.4312]

This guy is a troll? Has to be right? cries about lack of realism in a fantasy game and at the same time tries to act 'intelligent' by mocking replies who try to explain why fly mounts wouldn't be a good idea.

[HawkXtream.1538]

Well, have you considered that your mount may be tired and can't fly indefinitely? I guess not, because you only think about yourself. LOL