The only reason poeple complain about soulbeast is because it has a chance to dismount them

[bigo.9037]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Well... No. A warrior unless using sword mainhand doesn't have that many good gapclosers outside of rampage elite which has a long CD. They do however have really, really good sustain and dmg mitigation.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@bigo.9037 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Well... No. A warrior unless using sword mainhand doesn't have that many good gapclosers outside of rampage elite which has a long CD. They do however have really, really good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Savage Leap says hi! There is also Bull's Charge. Your secondary weapon set could be GS for rush + WWA. Runes of Speed and one of a Warrior's sources of swiftness can get you in close as well.

But this just reinforces my prior point. A melee has to blow cooldowns just to get into range for their burst, while a Sic'em Soulbeast does not.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Ranger can use gs and owl to easily stay out of ange of most classes. That set up had even kept up with my thief enough to keep pew pewing me to death while trying to run away.

Thieves have teleports.Warriors have stability and lock on gap closers.Guardians have teleports and leaps.Engineers have leaps and reflects.

Just to name a few, they also have times where they are completely undamaged. This isnt even counting their vigor uptime for more evasion.

Ranger seems easily susceptible to CC's though. > @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Maybe I can help. If a rev burst u and u either die to it,live through it with dps taken or avoided it with dodge,sustain skills etc where does that put the rev? Puts it in melee range with low energy and skill on CD. Ranger does its crazy high unlockable burst wheres that leave ranger? Still at 1800 range in safety. Huge difference. Make revs hammer drop hit consecutive times at 1800 range with a 40% dps modifier and I'd be broken as well lol before u say revs a might boon monster so its different it really isn't hassle gets more than enough dps modifiers and boons ontop of sic em. Revs burst was definitely OP but it's all it had and it got deserved nerfs,power slb can be built far more ways than power rev

This doesnt make sense. How did you get into melee range against a rev, but not into melee range against a soulbeast?

If a rev does its s/s burst as I'm assuming that's the burst ur talking about that puts the rev in melee range at end of burst. Slb burst is done at 1800 range with ranger still being at said range. Slb burst doesnt end with it next to the opponent like revs does. High reward with zero risk. That doesnt make sense? Most agree that range attacks should have less burst or dps potential than melee do to way less risk, especially when it's the only class that can dps from that range. Yet slb range burst has zero risk or drawbacks with unblockable on top just to make sure it's that extra kind of op lol

Talking about Hammer Revenant damage being compared to SlB Longbow here. Not sure where melee range is coming into play here. Why is the Rev in S/S?

@bigo.9037 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Well... No. A warrior unless using sword mainhand doesn't have that many good gapclosers outside of rampage elite which has a long CD. They do however have really, really good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Gs3, Gs5, Bull rush, Shield, Rampage. This is if not running sword btw. With good sustain and dmg mitigation.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Ranger can use gs and owl to easily stay out of ange of most classes. That set up had even kept up with my thief enough to keep pew pewing me to death while trying to run away.

Thieves have teleports.Warriors have stability and lock on gap closers.Guardians have teleports and leaps.Engineers have leaps and reflects.

Just to name a few, they also have times where they are completely undamaged. This isnt even counting their vigor uptime for more evasion.

Ranger seems easily susceptible to CC's though. > @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Maybe I can help. If a rev burst u and u either die to it,live through it with dps taken or avoided it with dodge,sustain skills etc where does that put the rev? Puts it in melee range with low energy and skill on CD. Ranger does its crazy high unlockable burst wheres that leave ranger? Still at 1800 range in safety. Huge difference. Make revs hammer drop hit consecutive times at 1800 range with a 40% dps modifier and I'd be broken as well lol before u say revs a might boon monster so its different it really isn't hassle gets more than enough dps modifiers and boons ontop of sic em. Revs burst was definitely OP but it's all it had and it got deserved nerfs,power slb can be built far more ways than power rev

This doesnt make sense. How did you get into melee range against a rev, but not into melee range against a soulbeast?

If a rev does its s/s burst as I'm assuming that's the burst ur talking about that puts the rev in melee range at end of burst. Slb burst is done at 1800 range with ranger still being at said range. Slb burst doesnt end with it next to the opponent like revs does. High reward with zero risk. That doesnt make sense? Most agree that range attacks should have less burst or dps potential than melee do to way less risk, especially when it's the only class that can dps from that range. Yet slb range burst has zero risk or drawbacks with unblockable on top just to make sure it's that extra kind of op lol

Talking about Hammer Revenant damage being compared to SlB Longbow here. Not sure where melee range is coming into play here. Why is the Rev in S/S?

@bigo.9037 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Well... No. A warrior unless using sword mainhand doesn't have that many good gapclosers outside of rampage elite which has a long CD. They do however have really, really good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Gs3, Gs5, Bull rush, Shield, Rampage. This is if not running sword btw. With good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Yeah thief teles on inf arrow can be done when enough ini is available,one shadow step and infiltrator sig if targets available. Gs and owl slb can and have kept close enough to me disengaging on thief to easily pew pew me down. Ranger doesnt have to catch up to thief, just stay in pew pew range which is easy considering low CD of swoop and gs leap ontop of swiftness. Not to mention mounts. I've had mounted groups catch my DD and eat me alive. Ini isn't infinite for inf arrow and CD long enough on shadow step. Nowadays thief's mobility isn't that much better than a lot of classes, not like people make it out to be.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@iKeostuKen.2738Rangers can also double swoop, about face weapon swap to sword, hornet's sting, about face again, Monarch's Leap. About the only class that can't play the mobility game is Necro.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Ranger can use gs and owl to easily stay out of ange of most classes. That set up had even kept up with my thief enough to keep pew pewing me to death while trying to run away.

Thieves have teleports.Warriors have stability and lock on gap closers.Guardians have teleports and leaps.Engineers have leaps and reflects.

Just to name a few, they also have times where they are completely undamaged. This isnt even counting their vigor uptime for more evasion.

Ranger seems easily susceptible to CC's though. > @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Maybe I can help. If a rev burst u and u either die to it,live through it with dps taken or avoided it with dodge,sustain skills etc where does that put the rev? Puts it in melee range with low energy and skill on CD. Ranger does its crazy high unlockable burst wheres that leave ranger? Still at 1800 range in safety. Huge difference. Make revs hammer drop hit consecutive times at 1800 range with a 40% dps modifier and I'd be broken as well lol before u say revs a might boon monster so its different it really isn't hassle gets more than enough dps modifiers and boons ontop of sic em. Revs burst was definitely OP but it's all it had and it got deserved nerfs,power slb can be built far more ways than power rev

This doesnt make sense. How did you get into melee range against a rev, but not into melee range against a soulbeast?

If a rev does its s/s burst as I'm assuming that's the burst ur talking about that puts the rev in melee range at end of burst. Slb burst is done at 1800 range with ranger still being at said range. Slb burst doesnt end with it next to the opponent like revs does. High reward with zero risk. That doesnt make sense? Most agree that range attacks should have less burst or dps potential than melee do to way less risk, especially when it's the only class that can dps from that range. Yet slb range burst has zero risk or drawbacks with unblockable on top just to make sure it's that extra kind of op lol

Talking about Hammer Revenant damage being compared to SlB Longbow here. Not sure where melee range is coming into play here. Why is the Rev in S/S?

@bigo.9037 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Well... No. A warrior unless using sword mainhand doesn't have that many good gapclosers outside of rampage elite which has a long CD. They do however have really, really good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Gs3, Gs5, Bull rush, Shield, Rampage. This is if not running sword btw. With good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Yeah thief teles on inf arrow can be done when enough ini is available,one shadow step and infiltrator sig if targets available. Gs and owl slb can and have kept close enough to me disengaging on thief to easily pew pew me down. Ranger doesnt have to catch up to thief, just stay in pew pew range which is easy considering low CD of swoop and gs leap ontop of swiftness. Not to mention mounts. I've had mounted groups catch my DD and eat me alive. Ini isn't infinite for inf arrow and CD long enough on shadow step. Nowadays thief's mobility isn't that much better than a lot of classes, not like people make it out to be.Thief can also teleport without using any initiative.Kind of confused on how your playing your thief if your running from the ranger instead of closing the distance and stealthing up.Mounting in a 1vX situation is another issue itself, not much of a ranger issue then it is a mount implementation issue that should have never touched the mode to begin with.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@iKeostuKen.2738Rangers can also double swoop, about face weapon swap to sword, hornet's sting, about face again, Monarch's Leap. About the only class that can't play the mobility game is Necro.

If a ranger is doing that to stay out of range Im pretty they arent much of a threat at that point since they possibly just broke the out of combat zone. Also if they weapon swap they arent doing any damage to you at range and you have about 9 seconds of no pressure to do what you want.

(Btw, how do they have double swoop? Isnt there a cooldown on swaps and going beastmode?)

[bigo.9037]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Ranger can use gs and owl to easily stay out of ange of most classes. That set up had even kept up with my thief enough to keep pew pewing me to death while trying to run away.

Thieves have teleports.Warriors have stability and lock on gap closers.Guardians have teleports and leaps.Engineers have leaps and reflects.

Just to name a few, they also have times where they are completely undamaged. This isnt even counting their vigor uptime for more evasion.

Ranger seems easily susceptible to CC's though. > @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Maybe I can help. If a rev burst u and u either die to it,live through it with dps taken or avoided it with dodge,sustain skills etc where does that put the rev? Puts it in melee range with low energy and skill on CD. Ranger does its crazy high unlockable burst wheres that leave ranger? Still at 1800 range in safety. Huge difference. Make revs hammer drop hit consecutive times at 1800 range with a 40% dps modifier and I'd be broken as well lol before u say revs a might boon monster so its different it really isn't hassle gets more than enough dps modifiers and boons ontop of sic em. Revs burst was definitely OP but it's all it had and it got deserved nerfs,power slb can be built far more ways than power rev

This doesnt make sense. How did you get into melee range against a rev, but not into melee range against a soulbeast?

If a rev does its s/s burst as I'm assuming that's the burst ur talking about that puts the rev in melee range at end of burst. Slb burst is done at 1800 range with ranger still being at said range. Slb burst doesnt end with it next to the opponent like revs does. High reward with zero risk. That doesnt make sense? Most agree that range attacks should have less burst or dps potential than melee do to way less risk, especially when it's the only class that can dps from that range. Yet slb range burst has zero risk or drawbacks with unblockable on top just to make sure it's that extra kind of op lol

Talking about Hammer Revenant damage being compared to SlB Longbow here. Not sure where melee range is coming into play here. Why is the Rev in S/S?

@bigo.9037 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Well... No. A warrior unless using sword mainhand doesn't have that many good gapclosers outside of rampage elite which has a long CD. They do however have really, really good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Gs3, Gs5, Bull rush, Shield, Rampage. This is if not running sword btw. With good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Yeah thief teles on inf arrow can be done when enough ini is available,one shadow step and infiltrator sig if targets available. Gs and owl slb can and have kept close enough to me disengaging on thief to easily pew pew me down. Ranger doesnt have to catch up to thief, just stay in pew pew range which is easy considering low CD of swoop and gs leap ontop of swiftness. Not to mention mounts. I've had mounted groups catch my DD and eat me alive. Ini isn't infinite for inf arrow and CD long enough on shadow step. Nowadays thief's mobility isn't that much better than a lot of classes, not like people make it out to be.Thief can also teleport without using any initiative.Kind of confused on how your playing your thief if your running from the ranger instead of closing the distance and stealthing up.Mounting in a 1vX situation is another issue itself, not much of a ranger issue then it is a mount implementation issue that should have never touched the mode to begin with.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@iKeostuKen.2738Rangers can also double swoop, about face weapon swap to sword, hornet's sting, about face again, Monarch's Leap. About the only class that can't play the mobility game is Necro.

If a ranger is doing that to stay out of range Im pretty they arent much of a threat at that point since they possibly just broke the out of combat zone. Also if they weapon swap they arent doing any damage to you at range and you have about 9 seconds of no pressure to do what you want.

(Btw, how do they have double swoop? Isnt there a cooldown on swaps and going beastmode?)

He probably just means a merged pet skill from bird or gazelle + the gs3 swoop.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@bigo.9037 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Ranger can use gs and owl to easily stay out of ange of most classes. That set up had even kept up with my thief enough to keep pew pewing me to death while trying to run away.

Thieves have teleports.Warriors have stability and lock on gap closers.Guardians have teleports and leaps.Engineers have leaps and reflects.

Just to name a few, they also have times where they are completely undamaged. This isnt even counting their vigor uptime for more evasion.

Ranger seems easily susceptible to CC's though. > @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Maybe I can help. If a rev burst u and u either die to it,live through it with dps taken or avoided it with dodge,sustain skills etc where does that put the rev? Puts it in melee range with low energy and skill on CD. Ranger does its crazy high unlockable burst wheres that leave ranger? Still at 1800 range in safety. Huge difference. Make revs hammer drop hit consecutive times at 1800 range with a 40% dps modifier and I'd be broken as well lol before u say revs a might boon monster so its different it really isn't hassle gets more than enough dps modifiers and boons ontop of sic em. Revs burst was definitely OP but it's all it had and it got deserved nerfs,power slb can be built far more ways than power rev

This doesnt make sense. How did you get into melee range against a rev, but not into melee range against a soulbeast?

If a rev does its s/s burst as I'm assuming that's the burst ur talking about that puts the rev in melee range at end of burst. Slb burst is done at 1800 range with ranger still being at said range. Slb burst doesnt end with it next to the opponent like revs does. High reward with zero risk. That doesnt make sense? Most agree that range attacks should have less burst or dps potential than melee do to way less risk, especially when it's the only class that can dps from that range. Yet slb range burst has zero risk or drawbacks with unblockable on top just to make sure it's that extra kind of op lol

Talking about Hammer Revenant damage being compared to SlB Longbow here. Not sure where melee range is coming into play here. Why is the Rev in S/S?

@bigo.9037 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Well... No. A warrior unless using sword mainhand doesn't have that many good gapclosers outside of rampage elite which has a long CD. They do however have really, really good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Gs3, Gs5, Bull rush, Shield, Rampage. This is if not running sword btw. With good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Yeah thief teles on inf arrow can be done when enough ini is available,one shadow step and infiltrator sig if targets available. Gs and owl slb can and have kept close enough to me disengaging on thief to easily pew pew me down. Ranger doesnt have to catch up to thief, just stay in pew pew range which is easy considering low CD of swoop and gs leap ontop of swiftness. Not to mention mounts. I've had mounted groups catch my DD and eat me alive. Ini isn't infinite for inf arrow and CD long enough on shadow step. Nowadays thief's mobility isn't that much better than a lot of classes, not like people make it out to be.Thief can also teleport without using any initiative.Kind of confused on how your playing your thief if your running from the ranger instead of closing the distance and stealthing up.Mounting in a 1vX situation is another issue itself, not much of a ranger issue then it is a mount implementation issue that should have never touched the mode to begin with.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@iKeostuKen.2738Rangers can also double swoop, about face weapon swap to sword, hornet's sting, about face again, Monarch's Leap. About the only class that can't play the mobility game is Necro.

If a ranger is doing that to stay out of range Im pretty they arent much of a threat at that point since they possibly just broke the out of combat zone. Also if they weapon swap they arent doing any damage to you at range and you have about 9 seconds of no pressure to do what you want.

(Btw, how do they have double swoop? Isnt there a cooldown on swaps and going beastmode?)

He probably just means a merged pet skill from bird or gazelle + the gs3 swoop.

But then they have no Longbow lol

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Ranger can use gs and owl to easily stay out of ange of most classes. That set up had even kept up with my thief enough to keep pew pewing me to death while trying to run away.

Thieves have teleports.Warriors have stability and lock on gap closers.Guardians have teleports and leaps.Engineers have leaps and reflects.

Just to name a few, they also have times where they are completely undamaged. This isnt even counting their vigor uptime for more evasion.

Ranger seems easily susceptible to CC's though. > @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Maybe I can help. If a rev burst u and u either die to it,live through it with dps taken or avoided it with dodge,sustain skills etc where does that put the rev? Puts it in melee range with low energy and skill on CD. Ranger does its crazy high unlockable burst wheres that leave ranger? Still at 1800 range in safety. Huge difference. Make revs hammer drop hit consecutive times at 1800 range with a 40% dps modifier and I'd be broken as well lol before u say revs a might boon monster so its different it really isn't hassle gets more than enough dps modifiers and boons ontop of sic em. Revs burst was definitely OP but it's all it had and it got deserved nerfs,power slb can be built far more ways than power rev

This doesnt make sense. How did you get into melee range against a rev, but not into melee range against a soulbeast?

If a rev does its s/s burst as I'm assuming that's the burst ur talking about that puts the rev in melee range at end of burst. Slb burst is done at 1800 range with ranger still being at said range. Slb burst doesnt end with it next to the opponent like revs does. High reward with zero risk. That doesnt make sense? Most agree that range attacks should have less burst or dps potential than melee do to way less risk, especially when it's the only class that can dps from that range. Yet slb range burst has zero risk or drawbacks with unblockable on top just to make sure it's that extra kind of op lol

Talking about Hammer Revenant damage being compared to SlB Longbow here. Not sure where melee range is coming into play here. Why is the Rev in S/S?

@bigo.9037 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Well... No. A warrior unless using sword mainhand doesn't have that many good gapclosers outside of rampage elite which has a long CD. They do however have really, really good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Gs3, Gs5, Bull rush, Shield, Rampage. This is if not running sword btw. With good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Yeah thief teles on inf arrow can be done when enough ini is available,one shadow step and infiltrator sig if targets available. Gs and owl slb can and have kept close enough to me disengaging on thief to easily pew pew me down. Ranger doesnt have to catch up to thief, just stay in pew pew range which is easy considering low CD of swoop and gs leap ontop of swiftness. Not to mention mounts. I've had mounted groups catch my DD and eat me alive. Ini isn't infinite for inf arrow and CD long enough on shadow step. Nowadays thief's mobility isn't that much better than a lot of classes, not like people make it out to be.Thief can also teleport without using any initiative.Kind of confused on how your playing your thief if your running from the ranger instead of closing the distance and stealthing up.Mounting in a 1vX situation is another issue itself, not much of a ranger issue then it is a mount implementation issue that should have never touched the mode to begin with.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@iKeostuKen.2738Rangers can also double swoop, about face weapon swap to sword, hornet's sting, about face again, Monarch's Leap. About the only class that can't play the mobility game is Necro.

If a ranger is doing that to stay out of range Im pretty they arent much of a threat at that point since they possibly just broke the out of combat zone. Also if they weapon swap they arent doing any damage to you at range and you have about 9 seconds of no pressure to do what you want.

(Btw, how do they have double swoop? Isnt there a cooldown on swaps and going beastmode?)

Well for one I dont prefer the stealth back stab style of play so I dont tend to run much stealth. A ranger even sic em build is better in a 1v1vs any thief if built in any way for anything other than pew pew. Either way I'm not much talking about 1v1ing a ranger I'm talking about the sic em skill in general. If ur engaged a ranger can +1 u from crazy range and down u no matter the class for the most part from safety which is no less broken than DE permastealth MB stab builds. Sic em needs needed by 20%. A 20% increase is in line with other classes dps modifiers and rangers get that from a safe range of 1800+ and reveal on top. Dont know how anyone can legitimately argue that it's not OP lol especially when the same people go to threads of other classes with far weaker offenders calling them OP,its rediculous.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Ranger can use gs and owl to easily stay out of ange of most classes. That set up had even kept up with my thief enough to keep pew pewing me to death while trying to run away.

Thieves have teleports.Warriors have stability and lock on gap closers.Guardians have teleports and leaps.Engineers have leaps and reflects.

Just to name a few, they also have times where they are completely undamaged. This isnt even counting their vigor uptime for more evasion.

Ranger seems easily susceptible to CC's though. > @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Maybe I can help. If a rev burst u and u either die to it,live through it with dps taken or avoided it with dodge,sustain skills etc where does that put the rev? Puts it in melee range with low energy and skill on CD. Ranger does its crazy high unlockable burst wheres that leave ranger? Still at 1800 range in safety. Huge difference. Make revs hammer drop hit consecutive times at 1800 range with a 40% dps modifier and I'd be broken as well lol before u say revs a might boon monster so its different it really isn't hassle gets more than enough dps modifiers and boons ontop of sic em. Revs burst was definitely OP but it's all it had and it got deserved nerfs,power slb can be built far more ways than power rev

This doesnt make sense. How did you get into melee range against a rev, but not into melee range against a soulbeast?

If a rev does its s/s burst as I'm assuming that's the burst ur talking about that puts the rev in melee range at end of burst. Slb burst is done at 1800 range with ranger still being at said range. Slb burst doesnt end with it next to the opponent like revs does. High reward with zero risk. That doesnt make sense? Most agree that range attacks should have less burst or dps potential than melee do to way less risk, especially when it's the only class that can dps from that range. Yet slb range burst has zero risk or drawbacks with unblockable on top just to make sure it's that extra kind of op lol

Talking about Hammer Revenant damage being compared to SlB Longbow here. Not sure where melee range is coming into play here. Why is the Rev in S/S?

@bigo.9037 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Well... No. A warrior unless using sword mainhand doesn't have that many good gapclosers outside of rampage elite which has a long CD. They do however have really, really good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Gs3, Gs5, Bull rush, Shield, Rampage. This is if not running sword btw. With good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Yeah thief teles on inf arrow can be done when enough ini is available,one shadow step and infiltrator sig if targets available. Gs and owl slb can and have kept close enough to me disengaging on thief to easily pew pew me down. Ranger doesnt have to catch up to thief, just stay in pew pew range which is easy considering low CD of swoop and gs leap ontop of swiftness. Not to mention mounts. I've had mounted groups catch my DD and eat me alive. Ini isn't infinite for inf arrow and CD long enough on shadow step. Nowadays thief's mobility isn't that much better than a lot of classes, not like people make it out to be.Thief can also teleport without using any initiative.Kind of confused on how your playing your thief if your running from the ranger instead of closing the distance and stealthing up.Mounting in a 1vX situation is another issue itself, not much of a ranger issue then it is a mount implementation issue that should have never touched the mode to begin with.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@iKeostuKen.2738Rangers can also double swoop, about face weapon swap to sword, hornet's sting, about face again, Monarch's Leap. About the only class that can't play the mobility game is Necro.

If a ranger is doing that to stay out of range Im pretty they arent much of a threat at that point since they possibly just broke the out of combat zone. Also if they weapon swap they arent doing any damage to you at range and you have about 9 seconds of no pressure to do what you want.

(Btw, how do they have double swoop? Isnt there a cooldown on swaps and going beastmode?)

He probably just means a merged pet skill from bird or gazelle + the gs3 swoop.

But then they have no Longbow lol

No long bow? Wut? Slb can use a long bow and gs lmao

[bq pd.2148]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Ranger can use gs and owl to easily stay out of ange of most classes. That set up had even kept up with my thief enough to keep pew pewing me to death while trying to run away.

Thieves have teleports.Warriors have stability and lock on gap closers.Guardians have teleports and leaps.Engineers have leaps and reflects.

Just to name a few, they also have times where they are completely undamaged. This isnt even counting their vigor uptime for more evasion.

Ranger seems easily susceptible to CC's though. > @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Maybe I can help. If a rev burst u and u either die to it,live through it with dps taken or avoided it with dodge,sustain skills etc where does that put the rev? Puts it in melee range with low energy and skill on CD. Ranger does its crazy high unlockable burst wheres that leave ranger? Still at 1800 range in safety. Huge difference. Make revs hammer drop hit consecutive times at 1800 range with a 40% dps modifier and I'd be broken as well lol before u say revs a might boon monster so its different it really isn't hassle gets more than enough dps modifiers and boons ontop of sic em. Revs burst was definitely OP but it's all it had and it got deserved nerfs,power slb can be built far more ways than power rev

This doesnt make sense. How did you get into melee range against a rev, but not into melee range against a soulbeast?

If a rev does its s/s burst as I'm assuming that's the burst ur talking about that puts the rev in melee range at end of burst. Slb burst is done at 1800 range with ranger still being at said range. Slb burst doesnt end with it next to the opponent like revs does. High reward with zero risk. That doesnt make sense? Most agree that range attacks should have less burst or dps potential than melee do to way less risk, especially when it's the only class that can dps from that range. Yet slb range burst has zero risk or drawbacks with unblockable on top just to make sure it's that extra kind of op lol

Talking about Hammer Revenant damage being compared to SlB Longbow here. Not sure where melee range is coming into play here. Why is the Rev in S/S?

@bigo.9037 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Well... No. A warrior unless using sword mainhand doesn't have that many good gapclosers outside of rampage elite which has a long CD. They do however have really, really good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Gs3, Gs5, Bull rush, Shield, Rampage. This is if not running sword btw. With good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Yeah thief teles on inf arrow can be done when enough ini is available,one shadow step and infiltrator sig if targets available. Gs and owl slb can and have kept close enough to me disengaging on thief to easily pew pew me down. Ranger doesnt have to catch up to thief, just stay in pew pew range which is easy considering low CD of swoop and gs leap ontop of swiftness. Not to mention mounts. I've had mounted groups catch my DD and eat me alive. Ini isn't infinite for inf arrow and CD long enough on shadow step. Nowadays thief's mobility isn't that much better than a lot of classes, not like people make it out to be.Thief can also teleport without using any initiative.Kind of confused on how your playing your thief if your running from the ranger instead of closing the distance and stealthing up.Mounting in a 1vX situation is another issue itself, not much of a ranger issue then it is a mount implementation issue that should have never touched the mode to begin with.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@iKeostuKen.2738Rangers can also double swoop, about face weapon swap to sword, hornet's sting, about face again, Monarch's Leap. About the only class that can't play the mobility game is Necro.

If a ranger is doing that to stay out of range Im pretty they arent much of a threat at that point since they possibly just broke the out of combat zone. Also if they weapon swap they arent doing any damage to you at range and you have about 9 seconds of no pressure to do what you want.

(Btw, how do they have double swoop? Isnt there a cooldown on swaps and going beastmode?)

He probably just means a merged pet skill from bird or gazelle + the gs3 swoop.

But then they have no Longbow lol

No long bow? Wut? Slb can use a long bow and gs lmao

when he uses LB shots and then swaps to GS to keep the gap, he wont have a longbow for a few seconds.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Well for one I dont prefer the stealth back stab style of play so I dont tend to run much stealth. A ranger even sic em build is better in a 1v1vs any thief if built in any way for anything other than pew pew. Either way I'm not much talking about 1v1ing a ranger I'm talking about the sic em skill in general. If ur engaged a ranger can +1 u from crazy range and down u no matter the class for the most part from safety which is no less broken than DE permastealth MB stab builds. Sic em needs needed by 20%. A 20% increase is in line with other classes dps modifiers and rangers get that from a safe range of 1800+ and reveal on top. Dont know how anyone can legitimately argue that it's not OP lol especially when the same people go to threads of other classes with far weaker offenders calling them OP,its rediculous.You dont have to stealth backstab. Stealth is for survivability and the whirling elite can be used when they activate sic em on you.Anything +1ing on a ranged power build is pretty much doing the same thing a ranger is going to do to you so im not seeing the issue with why its a issue on ranger considering its a single target ranged class when others do nearly the same damage to multiple foes at range.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

No long bow? Wut? Slb can use a long bow and gs lmao

Can you explain the double swoop combo with a sword equipped then? Im under the impression that a greatsword was used.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Anput.4620 said:

@Widmo.3186 said:

The only reason poeple complain about soulbeast is because it has a chance to dismount them

If that would be so, then answer me why there was so much hate towards rangers (SB) even before mount release?

Thank you, nice discuss, we should have another one in the future.Have a good day.

Why is there so much ranger hate now while all the mesmer/holo/thief hate has died down?

If anything, your argument that people are only complaining about soulbeasts because of them being dismounted is actually a reason to nerf them. Holo can be outrun by mounts, mesmer can spike them down but I've seen very few mesmers recently, I suspect they got hit by the nerf bat like thief did in the last 2-3 major patches. If your argument is that holo, thief, mesmer and soulbeasts were problems before mounts, and now mounts make movement easier and less risky only soulbeast is perceived as a problem, it just goes to show how stupidly overtuned the damage was on soulbeast pre mounts, no?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Ranger can use gs and owl to easily stay out of ange of most classes. That set up had even kept up with my thief enough to keep pew pewing me to death while trying to run away.

Thieves have teleports.Warriors have stability and lock on gap closers.Guardians have teleports and leaps.Engineers have leaps and reflects.

Just to name a few, they also have times where they are completely undamaged. This isnt even counting their vigor uptime for more evasion.

Ranger seems easily susceptible to CC's though. > @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Maybe I can help. If a rev burst u and u either die to it,live through it with dps taken or avoided it with dodge,sustain skills etc where does that put the rev? Puts it in melee range with low energy and skill on CD. Ranger does its crazy high unlockable burst wheres that leave ranger? Still at 1800 range in safety. Huge difference. Make revs hammer drop hit consecutive times at 1800 range with a 40% dps modifier and I'd be broken as well lol before u say revs a might boon monster so its different it really isn't hassle gets more than enough dps modifiers and boons ontop of sic em. Revs burst was definitely OP but it's all it had and it got deserved nerfs,power slb can be built far more ways than power rev

This doesnt make sense. How did you get into melee range against a rev, but not into melee range against a soulbeast?

If a rev does its s/s burst as I'm assuming that's the burst ur talking about that puts the rev in melee range at end of burst. Slb burst is done at 1800 range with ranger still being at said range. Slb burst doesnt end with it next to the opponent like revs does. High reward with zero risk. That doesnt make sense? Most agree that range attacks should have less burst or dps potential than melee do to way less risk, especially when it's the only class that can dps from that range. Yet slb range burst has zero risk or drawbacks with unblockable on top just to make sure it's that extra kind of op lol

Talking about Hammer Revenant damage being compared to SlB Longbow here. Not sure where melee range is coming into play here. Why is the Rev in S/S?

@bigo.9037 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Well... No. A warrior unless using sword mainhand doesn't have that many good gapclosers outside of rampage elite which has a long CD. They do however have really, really good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Gs3, Gs5, Bull rush, Shield, Rampage. This is if not running sword btw. With good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Yeah thief teles on inf arrow can be done when enough ini is available,one shadow step and infiltrator sig if targets available. Gs and owl slb can and have kept close enough to me disengaging on thief to easily pew pew me down. Ranger doesnt have to catch up to thief, just stay in pew pew range which is easy considering low CD of swoop and gs leap ontop of swiftness. Not to mention mounts. I've had mounted groups catch my DD and eat me alive. Ini isn't infinite for inf arrow and CD long enough on shadow step. Nowadays thief's mobility isn't that much better than a lot of classes, not like people make it out to be.Thief can also teleport without using any initiative.Kind of confused on how your playing your thief if your running from the ranger instead of closing the distance and stealthing up.Mounting in a 1vX situation is another issue itself, not much of a ranger issue then it is a mount implementation issue that should have never touched the mode to begin with.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@iKeostuKen.2738Rangers can also double swoop, about face weapon swap to sword, hornet's sting, about face again, Monarch's Leap. About the only class that can't play the mobility game is Necro.

If a ranger is doing that to stay out of range Im pretty they arent much of a threat at that point since they possibly just broke the out of combat zone. Also if they weapon swap they arent doing any damage to you at range and you have about 9 seconds of no pressure to do what you want.

(Btw, how do they have double swoop? Isnt there a cooldown on swaps and going beastmode?)

He probably just means a merged pet skill from bird or gazelle + the gs3 swoop.

But then they have no Longbow lol

No long bow? Wut? Slb can use a long bow and gs lmao

when he uses LB shots and then swaps to GS to keep the gap, he wont have a longbow for a few seconds.

Oh Haha yeah doesn't negate at all what I said though. Sic em ranger is prob my 3rd most used toon in wvw and I chase and pew pew thieves often. Also +1 and wrech people one by one from walls during zergs lol waiting out a weapon cool down is trivial.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Just out of curiosity,ranger being one of the specs that has a decent amount 9f everything what other class has a strait up 40% modifier to all damage in one skill or trait? Not multiple dps modifiers equating to 40% or more as ranger also has more than the sic em as well. I mean guard had RI but was nerfed cuz its crit modifier was to high. Most are 10,15 and maybe 20 and usually have a criteria like opponent below 50 hp or less or using all ur endurance etc as examples.

[Hitman.5829]

@"noot.8641" said:Seems to me that you don’t want your broken build to get nerfed.

LMAO, ranger is not broken, what makes them "strong" are the boons spam. Boons are out of control and anyone with half the knowledge about damage reduction knows that protection + "extra secret" stuff is what makes a build strong; you can reduce damage by more than 80% while maintaining a high DPS.

[bq pd.2148]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Just out of curiosity,ranger being one of the specs that has a decent amount 9f everything what other class has a strait up 40% modifier to all damage in one skill or trait? Not multiple dps modifiers equating to 40% or more as ranger also has more than the sic em as well. I mean guard had RI but was nerfed cuz its crit modifier was to high. Most are 10,15 and maybe 20 and usually have a criteria like opponent below 50 hp or less or using all ur endurance etc as examples.

valk thief using hidden killer. basically no base critchance but with 230% crit dmg gaining guranteed crits for a period ~100% dmg increase. on DE especially with m7 its even more because of malice interaction with crits etc.

[Arheundel.6451]

@noot.8641 said:Seems to me that you don’t want your broken build to get nerfed.

Like the build you're roaming with is not....

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Just out of curiosity,ranger being one of the specs that has a decent amount 9f everything what other class has a strait up 40% modifier to all damage in one skill or trait? Not multiple dps modifiers equating to 40% or more as ranger also has more than the sic em as well. I mean guard had RI but was nerfed cuz its crit modifier was to high. Most are 10,15 and maybe 20 and usually have a criteria like opponent below 50 hp or less or using all ur endurance etc as examples.

valk thief using hidden killer. basically no base critchance but with 230% crit dmg gaining guranteed crits for a period ~100% dmg increase. on DE especially with m7 its even more because of malice interaction with crits etc.

True but again a attack that has to be outa stealth and gives u 100 crit etc. Not a strait press a button 40% damage increase. Though I wonder what assassin sig equates to. Are their any classes with strait 40% or equivalent that doesnt have a criteria that has be met ie next hit outa stealth? Just hot skill and bam 40% damage for _ seconds

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Just out of curiosity,ranger being one of the specs that has a decent amount 9f everything what other class has a strait up 40% modifier to all damage in one skill or trait? Not multiple dps modifiers equating to 40% or more as ranger also has more than the sic em as well. I mean guard had RI but was nerfed cuz its crit modifier was to high. Most are 10,15 and maybe 20 and usually have a criteria like opponent below 50 hp or less or using all ur endurance etc as examples.

Just so you know. No other class has a % of their damage built into their pet that suffers from pathing issues and dies to being sneezed at in WvW in any group setting. % modifers are needed for core and druid.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Just out of curiosity,ranger being one of the specs that has a decent amount 9f everything what other class has a strait up 40% modifier to all damage in one skill or trait? Not multiple dps modifiers equating to 40% or more as ranger also has more than the sic em as well. I mean guard had RI but was nerfed cuz its crit modifier was to high. Most are 10,15 and maybe 20 and usually have a criteria like opponent below 50 hp or less or using all ur endurance etc as examples.

Just so you know. No other class has a % of their damage built into their pet that suffers from pathing issues and dies to being sneezed at in WvW in any group setting. % modifers are needed for core and druid.

Lmao seriously? I could see a minion necro hating on their pet but ranger? It's a plus to not only have a smokescale attacking u along side ur attacks but a huge over sight getting their boons when merged. Pathing issues as a downfall is lame. Most classes wouldn't mind having a pet like ranger. Also ranger has tons of great traits and boons it can give itself. Most of the trait trees are great with far more synergy between them compared to other classes ie boon beast is strong due to the synergies of WS and NM. Having a pet is barely a hindrance and with built in evades in gs as example and mauls dps modifier built into next attack their strong with or without pet,pet just makes em stronger c'mon.modifiers are needed yes but not 40%. 20 % would be in line.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Just out of curiosity,ranger being one of the specs that has a decent amount 9f everything what other class has a strait up 40% modifier to all damage in one skill or trait? Not multiple dps modifiers equating to 40% or more as ranger also has more than the sic em as well. I mean guard had RI but was nerfed cuz its crit modifier was to high. Most are 10,15 and maybe 20 and usually have a criteria like opponent below 50 hp or less or using all ur endurance etc as examples.

Just so you know. No other class has a % of their damage built into their pet that suffers from pathing issues and dies to being sneezed at in WvW in any group setting. % modifers are needed for core and druid.

Lmao seriously? I could see a minion necro hating on their pet but ranger? It's a plus to not only have a smokescale attacking u along side ur attacks but a huge over sight getting their boons when merged. Pathing issues as a downfall is lame. Most classes wouldn't mind having a pet like ranger. Also ranger has tons of great traits and boons it can give itself. Most of the trait trees are great with far more synergy between them compared to other classes ie boon beast is strong due to the synergies of WS and NM. Having a pet is barely a hindrance and with built in evades in gs as example and mauls dps modifier built into next attack their strong with or without pet,pet just makes em stronger c'mon.

So why arent those classes using their minions or summons in WvW?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Just out of curiosity,ranger being one of the specs that has a decent amount 9f everything what other class has a strait up 40% modifier to all damage in one skill or trait? Not multiple dps modifiers equating to 40% or more as ranger also has more than the sic em as well. I mean guard had RI but was nerfed cuz its crit modifier was to high. Most are 10,15 and maybe 20 and usually have a criteria like opponent below 50 hp or less or using all ur endurance etc as examples.

Just so you know. No other class has a % of their damage built into their pet that suffers from pathing issues and dies to being sneezed at in WvW in any group setting. % modifers are needed for core and druid.

Lmao seriously? I could see a minion necro hating on their pet but ranger? It's a plus to not only have a smokescale attacking u along side ur attacks but a huge over sight getting their boons when merged. Pathing issues as a downfall is lame. Most classes wouldn't mind having a pet like ranger. Also ranger has tons of great traits and boons it can give itself. Most of the trait trees are great with far more synergy between them compared to other classes ie boon beast is strong due to the synergies of WS and NM. Having a pet is barely a hindrance and with built in evades in gs as example and mauls dps modifier built into next attack their strong with or without pet,pet just makes em stronger c'mon.

So why arent those classes using their minions or summons in WvW?

I stated I could see why necrosis would complain as they cant stow or call their minions. A ranger pet is far more useful. Also I see reapers running minions in wvw often although I definitely would not.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Just out of curiosity,ranger being one of the specs that has a decent amount 9f everything what other class has a strait up 40% modifier to all damage in one skill or trait? Not multiple dps modifiers equating to 40% or more as ranger also has more than the sic em as well. I mean guard had RI but was nerfed cuz its crit modifier was to high. Most are 10,15 and maybe 20 and usually have a criteria like opponent below 50 hp or less or using all ur endurance etc as examples.

Just so you know. No other class has a % of their damage built into their pet that suffers from pathing issues and dies to being sneezed at in WvW in any group setting. % modifers are needed for core and druid.

Lmao seriously? I could see a minion necro hating on their pet but ranger? It's a plus to not only have a smokescale attacking u along side ur attacks but a huge over sight getting their boons when merged. Pathing issues as a downfall is lame. Most classes wouldn't mind having a pet like ranger. Also ranger has tons of great traits and boons it can give itself. Most of the trait trees are great with far more synergy between them compared to other classes ie boon beast is strong due to the synergies of WS and NM. Having a pet is barely a hindrance and with built in evades in gs as example and mauls dps modifier built into next attack their strong with or without pet,pet just makes em stronger c'mon.

So why arent those classes using their minions or summons in WvW?

I stated I could see why necrosis would complain as they cant stow or call their minions. A ranger pet is far more useful. Also I see reapers running minions in wvw often although I definitely would not.

Also said most classes wouldnt mind having the pet. if that were true they have a % of their damage transferred into the pet. Most people say their class is already weak so why would they want that? Having a pet is a huge hindrance in a non 1v1 engagement. They are made useless in pretty much a majority of WvW itself outside of roaming.

[RedShark.9548]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Anput.4620" said:Bunkers are still the best 1v1 specs right now and soulbeast can't do anything to stop them, if you run full glass then you are toast as soon as they evade your burst, the balanced build is better. Like really bring the oh-so broken soulbeast against a mirage, chrono, berserker, protection holo or boonbeast, or a good hybrid guardian, no chance.

Many specs are way better than soulbeast for 1v1, but it sounds like this is not about balance in fights but the fact that soulbeast may have a chance of dismounting someone, unlike those even more broken builds, so poeple come complain about soulbeast and not those others as they just walk past those.

Sicc Em isn't even a mandatory inclusion as boonbeast doesn't even use it which shows it isn't undeniably OP, which is a way better build than regular soulbeast, but no one complains about that build, or these other duelist builds which are better than soulbeast for 1v1s, why? They don't shoot you off your mount, even though being a better duelist by miles.

The only poeple that die to the glassbeast, which isn't a good build even(the balanced build with some survivability is a better duelist), are bad squishies that just try to run instead of fight. Heck, berserker arc divider burst still hits for twice as much as a rapid fire yet no one complains about that anymore after the nerf, because it doesn't shoot you off your mount.

How do you lose against berserker?

Warrior can still get close enough to even just do that - arc devider

And soulbeast can still use dodge, block, blind, use one of his movement skills to avoid it, arc divider is so easy to see. And the ony "good" thing that berserker has. Especially that he has nothing when hes not in berserker.

And a warrior doesn't have gap closers or ranged secondary weapon sets, condi cleanses, immobilizes, and unblockables? Gunflame and Decapitate make the second and third good things Berserkers have. Bloody Roar makes four.

My point is all the ways you mentioned to counter a Berserker, a Berserker can counter play. Arc Divider is easy to see only because Berserk Mode has to precede it. What you may not see coming however, is Headbutt. The only thing saving you then is any passive invuln procs.

TLDR; How do you lose to a Berserker? Be in melee range and get CC'd even once.

what are you even talking about ?? headbutt is one of the easiest skills to see in the game, holy cow, so easy to dodge.you heard of stunbreaks ?? what kind of ppl are you fighting, that they die in one headbutt ? bots ? (getting hit by headbutt is in no way a death sentence)

seriously. even if you get hit by headbutt, you pop a stunbreak and dodge back, because hes probably spamming arc divider right now, maybe even activated signet of might (which takes up a very valuable skillslot), then you kite around, chilling and wait until his berserk is out, maybe even poke him in some way, while hes using all his cd to get to you, because hes desperate to get his dmg out in berserk duration.

also arc divider is easy to see, even without berserker activating before ? the only problem i see with that skill is, that a single dodge is not enough to dodge all 3 of the hits. the third one hits after the dodge ran out and is still in range.but hard to see ? no, maybe you need glasses, i dont know.

from all the posts ive seen from you in the forums you seem to just run full dmg yolo memebuilds and never actually fight ppl that know what they are doing.

Tl;dr: Nobody who knows how to play pvp and duells will die in A SINGLE CC, NOBODY! just no