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Balance is terrible.I don't think mesmer are treated fairly


ZeteCommander.4937

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@Solori.6025 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Look here; what a surprise??

(Thief) Mesmer making the headlines again of being toxic instead of being competitive- healthy-with-skill play, as the Op stated.It never amazes me that for 7 years; Thief and Mesmer continuously being called out for causing unbalance to the game yet nothing is beingdone to put an end to their Toxicity

Even forcing other professions to be toxic in dealing with them

Quote

'My favorite Scrapper build actually uses dual pistols! It doesn’t matter that my efficacy with a dual pistol Scrapper is quite high, or the amazing capabilities it has to counter high mobility and evasion classes like mesmers and thieves, simply the fact that a player isn’t running a build known to be overpowered is enough to be heckled if your team comes even slightly close to losing.'

((Mesmers do not deserve to being treated unfairly-they deserve to being treated with fun skill-play designs and mechanics which honors Gwen Thackeray ))

If Gwen Thackeray was still alive-she would Never approve her design and would certainly be Extremely-Beyond- Outrage by the direction of her Mesmer identity to Guild Wars and Tyria

If GW1 mesmer, the one Gwen is, was in GW2 it would have the forums on their knees grovelling to be set free from their oppressive single and sometimes multiple target shut down. GW1 mesmer was several orders of magnitude more powerful than GW2 mesmer, it could make you take massive damage for not casting and take massive damage for casting at the same time while quite literally doubling or even tripling up on any ability it wanted.

Make no mistake GW1 mesmer is a leather clad dominatrix that would reduce all these forum beta's to the pathetic slaves they are.

Edit: So why wasn't it a big issue in GW1? GW1 is a team game, had the trinity and you relied on your team to clear the hex's.

I want this..........i want this now.........

I meant in gw2 ?I tried gw1.....waaaaayyy to slow for me. Like I can stand playing FF14 or Swtor more than I can gw1.

I get what you mean but the slower pace is correlated to the tactical aspect.GW2 is more of an hack and slash type of gameplay than rpg. Every profession, skill and trait lack identity, to add to this every skill has a safety net attached to it, there's no risk imbued into them.Professions have no synergy whatsoever, it's more of a single player game in a mmo setting (combos are just a poor excuse of synergy).These are all present in gw1, hence why most veterans praise gw1 combat.

As for mesmer in particular, apharma explained it really well. Mesmer was a beast in pvp.Just reading gw wiki skills shows how powerful and annoying it was.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Look here; what a surprise??

(Thief) Mesmer making the headlines again of being toxic instead of being competitive- healthy-with-skill play, as the Op stated.It never amazes me that for 7 years; Thief and Mesmer continuously being called out for causing unbalance to the game yet nothing is beingdone to put an end to their Toxicity

Even forcing other professions to be toxic in dealing with them

Quote

'My favorite Scrapper build actually uses dual pistols! It doesn’t matter that my efficacy with a dual pistol Scrapper is quite high, or the amazing capabilities it has to counter high mobility and evasion classes like mesmers and thieves, simply the fact that a player isn’t running a build known to be overpowered is enough to be heckled if your team comes even slightly close to losing.'

((Mesmers do not deserve to being treated unfairly-they deserve to being treated with fun skill-play designs and mechanics which honors Gwen Thackeray ))

If Gwen Thackeray was still alive-she would Never approve her design and would certainly be Extremely-Beyond- Outrage by the direction of her Mesmer identity to Guild Wars and Tyria

If GW1 mesmer, the one Gwen is, was in GW2 it would have the forums on their knees grovelling to be set free from their oppressive single and sometimes multiple target shut down. GW1 mesmer was several orders of magnitude more powerful than GW2 mesmer, it could make you take massive damage for not casting and take massive damage for casting at the same time while quite literally doubling or even tripling up on any ability it wanted.

Make no mistake GW1 mesmer is a leather clad dominatrix that would reduce all these forum beta's to the pathetic slaves they are.

Edit: So why wasn't it a big issue in GW1? GW1 is a team game, had the trinity and you relied on your team to clear the hex's.

I want this..........i want this now.........

I meant in gw2 ?I tried gw1.....waaaaayyy to slow for me. Like I can stand playing FF14 or Swtor more than I can gw1.

I get what you mean but the slower pace is correlated to the tactical aspect.GW2 is more of an hack and slash type of gameplay than rpg. Every profession, skill and trait lack identity, to add to this every skill has a safety net attached to it, there's no risk imbued into them.Professions have no synergy whatsoever, it's more of a single player game in a mmo setting (combos are just a poor excuse of synergy).These are all present in gw1, hence why most veterans praise gw1 combat.

As for mesmer in particular, apharma explained it really well. Mesmer was a beast in pvp.Just reading gw wiki skills shows how powerful and annoying it was.

This is exactly what i love. Hack and Slash.

Had zero interest in gw1 back in the days, with all the party etc. I always disliked games where you can't just play your character gotta have AI's or other players to do things, control a whole party. Just let me master playing my character. I don't mind that ppl like to rp around do what they want with their characters, but it's not fulfilling for me to rp around like im a girlscout.

Do like a good story though, but a good story can't make up for missing gameplay quality.

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@Crackmonster.2790 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Look here; what a surprise??

(Thief) Mesmer making the headlines again of being toxic instead of being competitive- healthy-with-skill play, as the Op stated.It never amazes me that for 7 years; Thief and Mesmer continuously being called out for causing unbalance to the game yet nothing is beingdone to put an end to their Toxicity

Even forcing other professions to be toxic in dealing with them

Quote

'My favorite Scrapper build actually uses dual pistols! It doesn’t matter that my efficacy with a dual pistol Scrapper is quite high, or the amazing capabilities it has to counter high mobility and evasion classes like mesmers and thieves, simply the fact that a player isn’t running a build known to be overpowered is enough to be heckled if your team comes even slightly close to losing.'

((Mesmers do not deserve to being treated unfairly-they deserve to being treated with fun skill-play designs and mechanics which honors Gwen Thackeray ))

If Gwen Thackeray was still alive-she would Never approve her design and would certainly be Extremely-Beyond- Outrage by the direction of her Mesmer identity to Guild Wars and Tyria

If GW1 mesmer, the one Gwen is, was in GW2 it would have the forums on their knees grovelling to be set free from their oppressive single and sometimes multiple target shut down. GW1 mesmer was several orders of magnitude more powerful than GW2 mesmer, it could make you take massive damage for not casting and take massive damage for casting at the same time while quite literally doubling or even tripling up on any ability it wanted.

Make no mistake GW1 mesmer is a leather clad dominatrix that would reduce all these forum beta's to the pathetic slaves they are.

Edit: So why wasn't it a big issue in GW1? GW1 is a team game, had the trinity and you relied on your team to clear the hex's.

I want this..........i want this now.........

I meant in gw2 ?I tried gw1.....waaaaayyy to slow for me. Like I can stand playing FF14 or Swtor more than I can gw1.

I get what you mean but the slower pace is correlated to the tactical aspect.GW2 is more of an hack and slash type of gameplay than rpg. Every profession, skill and trait lack identity, to add to this every skill has a safety net attached to it, there's no risk imbued into them.Professions have no synergy whatsoever, it's more of a single player game in a mmo setting (combos are just a poor excuse of synergy).These are all present in gw1, hence why most veterans praise gw1 combat.

As for mesmer in particular, apharma explained it really well. Mesmer was a beast in pvp.Just reading gw wiki skills shows how powerful and annoying it was.

This is exactly what i love. Hack and Slash.

Had zero interest in gw1 back in the days, with all the party etc. I always disliked games where you can't just play your character gotta have AI's or other players to do things, control a whole party. Just let me master playing my character. I don't mind that ppl like to rp around do what they want with their characters, but it's not fulfilling for me to rp around like im a girlscout.

Do like a good story though, but a good story can't make up for missing gameplay quality.

I understand that.But I didn't mean hack and slash as a positive meaning nor rpg as role play aspect.I meant that gw2 combat has as much depth as a dynasty warriors game combat system, it's so dumbed down and bland that you can only compare to a straightforward type of game.As for rpg I meant the opposite, a well thought and deep combat system with multiple synergies and counters both from an individual and team standpoint. Gw1 combat is a true masterpiece while gw2 is the more of fast food approach.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Look here; what a surprise??

(Thief) Mesmer making the headlines again of being toxic instead of being competitive- healthy-with-skill play, as the Op stated.It never amazes me that for 7 years; Thief and Mesmer continuously being called out for causing unbalance to the game yet nothing is beingdone to put an end to their Toxicity

Even forcing other professions to be toxic in dealing with them

Quote

'My favorite Scrapper build actually uses dual pistols! It doesn’t matter that my efficacy with a dual pistol Scrapper is quite high, or the amazing capabilities it has to counter high mobility and evasion classes like mesmers and thieves, simply the fact that a player isn’t running a build known to be overpowered is enough to be heckled if your team comes even slightly close to losing.'

((Mesmers do not deserve to being treated unfairly-they deserve to being treated with fun skill-play designs and mechanics which honors Gwen Thackeray ))

If Gwen Thackeray was still alive-she would Never approve her design and would certainly be Extremely-Beyond- Outrage by the direction of her Mesmer identity to Guild Wars and Tyria

If GW1 mesmer, the one Gwen is, was in GW2 it would have the forums on their knees grovelling to be set free from their oppressive single and sometimes multiple target shut down. GW1 mesmer was several orders of magnitude more powerful than GW2 mesmer, it could make you take massive damage for not casting and take massive damage for casting at the same time while quite literally doubling or even tripling up on any ability it wanted.

Make no mistake GW1 mesmer is a leather clad dominatrix that would reduce all these forum beta's to the pathetic slaves they are.

Edit: So why wasn't it a big issue in GW1? GW1 is a team game, had the trinity and you relied on your team to clear the hex's.

I want this..........i want this now.........

I meant in gw2 ?I tried gw1.....waaaaayyy to slow for me. Like I can stand playing FF14 or Swtor more than I can gw1.

I get what you mean but the slower pace is correlated to the tactical aspect.GW2 is more of an hack and slash type of gameplay than rpg. Every profession, skill and trait lack identity, to add to this every skill has a safety net attached to it, there's no risk imbued into them.Professions have no synergy whatsoever, it's more of a single player game in a mmo setting (combos are just a poor excuse of synergy).These are all present in gw1, hence why most veterans praise gw1 combat.

As for mesmer in particular, apharma explained it really well. Mesmer was a beast in pvp.Just reading gw wiki skills shows how powerful and annoying it was.

This is exactly what i love. Hack and Slash.

Had zero interest in gw1 back in the days, with all the party etc. I always disliked games where you can't just play your character gotta have AI's or other players to do things, control a whole party. Just let me master playing my character. I don't mind that ppl like to rp around do what they want with their characters, but it's not fulfilling for me to rp around like im a girlscout.

Do like a good story though, but a good story can't make up for missing gameplay quality.

I understand that.But I didn't mean hack and slash as a positive meaning nor rpg as role play aspect.I meant that gw2 combat has as much depth as a dynasty warriors game combat system, it's so dumbed down and bland that you can only compare to a straightforward type of game.As for rpg I meant the opposite, a well thought and deep combat system with multiple synergies and counters both from an individual and team standpoint. Gw1 combat is a true masterpiece while gw2 is the more of fast food approach.

I know. That's why i made an opposite statement because i have to defend the style.

Difference of opinion, you don't understand this system or want to - you don't see the quality of it but GW2 has one of the most masterful of well executed reactionary combat systems proper ARPGMMO's has ever seen.

Just saying, you are wrong to generalize it as being generically shallow - you are more right when you point out its differs from gw1 on the chosen type of combat system and is much less rock paper scissors and more can do most things on most classes with ample skill.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Look here; what a surprise??

(Thief) Mesmer making the headlines again of being toxic instead of being competitive- healthy-with-skill play, as the Op stated.It never amazes me that for 7 years; Thief and Mesmer continuously being called out for causing unbalance to the game yet nothing is beingdone to put an end to their Toxicity

Even forcing other professions to be toxic in dealing with them

Quote

'My favorite Scrapper build actually uses dual pistols! It doesn’t matter that my efficacy with a dual pistol Scrapper is quite high, or the amazing capabilities it has to counter high mobility and evasion classes like mesmers and thieves, simply the fact that a player isn’t running a build known to be overpowered is enough to be heckled if your team comes even slightly close to losing.'

((Mesmers do not deserve to being treated unfairly-they deserve to being treated with fun skill-play designs and mechanics which honors Gwen Thackeray ))

If Gwen Thackeray was still alive-she would Never approve her design and would certainly be Extremely-Beyond- Outrage by the direction of her Mesmer identity to Guild Wars and Tyria

If GW1 mesmer, the one Gwen is, was in GW2 it would have the forums on their knees grovelling to be set free from their oppressive single and sometimes multiple target shut down. GW1 mesmer was several orders of magnitude more powerful than GW2 mesmer, it could make you take massive damage for not casting and take massive damage for casting at the same time while quite literally doubling or even tripling up on any ability it wanted.

Make no mistake GW1 mesmer is a leather clad dominatrix that would reduce all these forum beta's to the pathetic slaves they are.

Edit: So why wasn't it a big issue in GW1? GW1 is a team game, had the trinity and you relied on your team to clear the hex's.

I want this..........i want this now.........

I meant in gw2 ?I tried gw1.....waaaaayyy to slow for me. Like I can stand playing FF14 or Swtor more than I can gw1.

I get what you mean but the slower pace is correlated to the tactical aspect.GW2 is more of an hack and slash type of gameplay than rpg. Every profession, skill and trait lack identity, to add to this every skill has a safety net attached to it, there's no risk imbued into them.Professions have no synergy whatsoever, it's more of a single player game in a mmo setting (combos are just a poor excuse of synergy).These are all present in gw1, hence why most veterans praise gw1 combat.

As for mesmer in particular, apharma explained it really well. Mesmer was a beast in pvp.Just reading gw wiki skills shows how powerful and annoying it was.

This is exactly what i love. Hack and Slash.

Had zero interest in gw1 back in the days, with all the party etc. I always disliked games where you can't just play your character gotta have AI's or other players to do things, control a whole party. Just let me master playing my character. I don't mind that ppl like to rp around do what they want with their characters, but it's not fulfilling for me to rp around like im a girlscout.

Do like a good story though, but a good story can't make up for missing gameplay quality.

I understand that.But I didn't mean hack and slash as a positive meaning nor rpg as role play aspect.I meant that gw2 combat has as much depth as a dynasty warriors game combat system, it's so dumbed down and bland that you can only compare to a straightforward type of game.As for rpg I meant the opposite, a well thought and deep combat system with multiple synergies and counters both from an individual and team standpoint. Gw1 combat is a true masterpiece while gw2 is the more of fast food approach.

I will not have you speaking ill about Dynasty Warriors in MY house.

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Well it's Metabattle-official: all Conquest mesmer builds have been downgraded to third tier "good", dropping below even the likes of Fire Weaver. I know Metabattle isn't the be-all, end-all, but the recently revised Conquest lineup seems fairly accurate.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

Thanks to the person who brought this to my attention. :)

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@Flandre.2870 said:

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:Well it's Metabattle-official: all Conquest mesmer builds have been downgraded to third tier "good", dropping below even the likes of Fire Weaver. I know Metabattle isn't the be-all, end-all, but the recently revised Conquest lineup seems fairly accurate.

Thanks to the person who brought this to my attention. :)

Good. I actually enjoy condi mirage for once after these last couple nerfs.Now they need to bring down kitten like holo,warr and rev and game will be good.

Dunno how seriously I can take your "I like a challenge" when you jumped ship to Boonbeast back when it was the best 1v1 spec by a considerable margin.

Even when Condi Mirage was at it's most lethal (February to July 2018 after the phantasm work) at the high end of play there were plenty of builds that just stalled it out and contested the nodes in perpetuity; Spellbreaker, Prot Holo, Scrapper both before and after the gyro rework, SD Weaver, Boonbeast. All competitive. All going toe to toe with Condition Mirage at it's absolute peak.

You'd figured if they were going to gut condi mirage's damage by 50-70% across the board for both it's shatters and all of it's weapon skills that builds that were going toe to toe with Condi Mirage would also have gotten some nerfs as well. And aside from Boonbeast getting serious nerfs along side Mirage everything was either ridiculously buffed like Spellbreakers with Rampage and Shake it Off or left untouched.

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@Flandre.2870 said:Yeah they are idiots for not nerfing everything to bring all specs to the same level. Holo,warrior,rev are the offenders rn. Daggerstorm is a kitten spell that should never exist in its current state. And about me jumping ship to boonbeast i literally played 200 games of ranger over months for a team, lol. While i keep playing mesmer daily

See you in a couple of days flan :cold_sweat: I don't think the mods liked you calling Anet out on their.......inadequacies and short comings...

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:Well it's Metabattle-official: all Conquest mesmer builds have been downgraded to third tier "good", dropping below even the likes of Fire Weaver. I know Metabattle isn't the be-all, end-all, but the recently revised Conquest lineup seems fairly accurate.

Thanks to the person who brought this to my attention. :)

Good. I actually enjoy condi mirage for once after these last couple nerfs.Now they need to bring down kitten like holo,warr and rev and game will be good.

Dunno how seriously I can take your "I like a challenge" when you jumped ship to Boonbeast back when it was the best 1v1 spec by a considerable margin.Flandre always mained ranger, why playing ranger should be surprising ?
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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:Well it's Metabattle-official: all Conquest mesmer builds have been downgraded to third tier "good", dropping below even the likes of Fire Weaver. I know Metabattle isn't the be-all, end-all, but the recently revised Conquest lineup seems fairly accurate.

Thanks to the person who brought this to my attention. :)

Good. I actually enjoy condi mirage for once after these last couple nerfs.Now they need to bring down kitten like holo,warr and rev and game will be good.

Dunno how seriously I can take your "I like a challenge" when you jumped ship to Boonbeast back when it was the best 1v1 spec by a considerable margin.

Even when Condi Mirage was at it's most lethal (February to July 2018 after the phantasm work) at the high end of play there were plenty of builds that just stalled it out and contested the nodes in perpetuity; Spellbreaker, Prot Holo, Scrapper both before and after the gyro rework, SD Weaver, Boonbeast. All competitive. All going toe to toe with Condition Mirage at it's absolute peak.

You'd figured if they were going to gut condi mirage's damage by 50-70% across the board for both it's shatters and all of it's weapon skills that builds that were going toe to toe with Condi Mirage would also have gotten some nerfs as well. And aside from Boonbeast getting serious nerfs along side Mirage everything was either ridiculously buffed like Spellbreakers with Rampage and Shake it Off or left untouched.

Spellbreaker got nerfed multiple times and the most obvious was when they nerfed Fullcounter by 80%, which is also the time when you had 4 condi mirages every game. You are right about Rampage it needs cd nerf and some changes to the magic homing rock and Shake it Off got buff for POF cause anything that is condition speck trows at least 6 conditions on the slightest graze also it came at the same time they buff/nerfed Berserker stance.To tell you the truth they designed most of the POF specks by the rule of cool instead of properly thinking about it and the funniest thing is that spellbreaker was thrown together last minute, you can notice that fullcounter is guardian mace block since they have the same visual bug (never fixed lol).Stop the pity party and suggest some reasonable changes. Mesmerererer is still great, maybe it requires some effort to play you know. People QQ about it cause the design is broken stacking both confusion and torment, you move you die, you press a button you die you stay still you die, then the mirage can dodge while stunned who the hell thinks that is good design. All of the POF specks are overkill with bullshit amount of training wheels like they wanted to remove the skill part of the game and everyone to think they are good at it by rolling their face on the keyboard. Now everyone is special, which means no one is.
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@Vancho.8750 said:

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:Well it's Metabattle-official: all Conquest mesmer builds have been downgraded to third tier "good", dropping below even the likes of Fire Weaver. I know Metabattle isn't the be-all, end-all, but the recently revised Conquest lineup seems fairly accurate.

Thanks to the person who brought this to my attention. :)

Good. I actually enjoy condi mirage for once after these last couple nerfs.Now they need to bring down kitten like holo,warr and rev and game will be good.

Dunno how seriously I can take your "I like a challenge" when you jumped ship to Boonbeast back when it was the best 1v1 spec by a considerable margin.

Even when Condi Mirage was at it's most lethal (February to July 2018 after the phantasm work) at the high end of play there were plenty of builds that just stalled it out and contested the nodes in perpetuity; Spellbreaker, Prot Holo, Scrapper both before and after the gyro rework, SD Weaver, Boonbeast. All competitive. All going toe to toe with Condition Mirage at it's absolute peak.

You'd figured if they were going to gut condi mirage's damage by 50-70% across the board for both it's shatters and all of it's weapon skills that builds that were going toe to toe with Condi Mirage would also have gotten some nerfs as well. And aside from Boonbeast getting serious nerfs along side Mirage everything was either ridiculously buffed like Spellbreakers with Rampage and Shake it Off or left untouched.

Spellbreaker got nerfed multiple times and the most obvious was when they nerfed Fullcounter by 80%, which is also the time when you had 4 condi mirages every game. You are right about Rampage it needs cd nerf and some changes to the magic homing rock and Shake it Off got buff for POF cause anything that is condition speck trows at least 6 conditions on the slightest graze also it came at the same time they buff/nerfed Berserker stance.

Full Counter's damage got nerfed, which is a change I personally don't agree with.

But the tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

I really don't want to hear a Rampage Main of all classes talk about effort and skill when your build is objectively the spammiest, braindead, easiest to play, and most boosted thing in the meta right now after Holo and Scrapper, and they're also Rampage Mains.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:Well it's Metabattle-official: all Conquest mesmer builds have been downgraded to third tier "good", dropping below even the likes of Fire Weaver. I know Metabattle isn't the be-all, end-all, but the recently revised Conquest lineup seems fairly accurate.

Thanks to the person who brought this to my attention. :)

Good. I actually enjoy condi mirage for once after these last couple nerfs.Now they need to bring down kitten like holo,warr and rev and game will be good.

Dunno how seriously I can take your "I like a challenge" when you jumped ship to Boonbeast back when it was the best 1v1 spec by a considerable margin.

Even when Condi Mirage was at it's most lethal (February to July 2018 after the phantasm work) at the high end of play there were plenty of builds that just stalled it out and contested the nodes in perpetuity; Spellbreaker, Prot Holo, Scrapper both before and after the gyro rework, SD Weaver, Boonbeast. All competitive. All going toe to toe with Condition Mirage at it's absolute peak.

You'd figured if they were going to gut condi mirage's damage by 50-70% across the board for both it's shatters and all of it's weapon skills that builds that were going toe to toe with Condi Mirage would also have gotten some nerfs as well. And aside from Boonbeast getting serious nerfs along side Mirage everything was either ridiculously buffed like Spellbreakers with Rampage and Shake it Off or left untouched.

Spellbreaker got nerfed multiple times and the most obvious was when they nerfed Fullcounter by 80%, which is also the time when you had 4 condi mirages every game. You are right about Rampage it needs cd nerf and some changes to the magic homing rock and Shake it Off got buff for POF cause anything that is condition speck trows at least 6 conditions on the slightest graze also it came at the same time they buff/nerfed Berserker stance.

Full Counter's damage got nerfed, which is a change I personally don't agree with.

But the tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were
never
nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

I really don't want to hear a Rampage Main of all classes talk about effort and skill when your build is objectively the spammiest, braindead, easiest to play, and most boosted thing in the meta right now after Holo and Scrapper, and they're also Rampage Mains.You assume too much , mainly i play Reaper not some mechanical miracle, you press a button and after a long cast it does something, but you can feel which profession elites are bullshit since no ou shit buttons. Mirage, holo, deadeye , soulbeast, scourge and even the perma dodge weaver all dumb down design with low cooldowns do your raid rotation and you win at least vs warrior i have 50/50 to win. I know you want to feel like you are playing some mechanically intense class but man mirage has the most training wheels out of all of them. So you are talking about the big hits on war they are like that cause everything has overcharged defenses and if you get hit by 10k Arcing Slice you are most probably under 50% hp and yet mesmererer has the same output or even more from range. To tell you it gets on my nerves when some mesmererer lasers away 3/4 of my Reaper HP( if it was anything else it would be dead) when i have used my 2 precious dodges or condi mirage just spams clones and hit caps me while my hp drains away . With every sentence you write it shows you haven't done your homework on other professions.
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@Vancho.8750 said:

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:Well it's Metabattle-official: all Conquest mesmer builds have been downgraded to third tier "good", dropping below even the likes of Fire Weaver. I know Metabattle isn't the be-all, end-all, but the recently revised Conquest lineup seems fairly accurate.

Thanks to the person who brought this to my attention. :)

Good. I actually enjoy condi mirage for once after these last couple nerfs.Now they need to bring down kitten like holo,warr and rev and game will be good.

Dunno how seriously I can take your "I like a challenge" when you jumped ship to Boonbeast back when it was the best 1v1 spec by a considerable margin.

Even when Condi Mirage was at it's most lethal (February to July 2018 after the phantasm work) at the high end of play there were plenty of builds that just stalled it out and contested the nodes in perpetuity; Spellbreaker, Prot Holo, Scrapper both before and after the gyro rework, SD Weaver, Boonbeast. All competitive. All going toe to toe with Condition Mirage at it's absolute peak.

You'd figured if they were going to gut condi mirage's damage by 50-70% across the board for both it's shatters and all of it's weapon skills that builds that were going toe to toe with Condi Mirage would also have gotten some nerfs as well. And aside from Boonbeast getting serious nerfs along side Mirage everything was either ridiculously buffed like Spellbreakers with Rampage and Shake it Off or left untouched.

Spellbreaker got nerfed multiple times and the most obvious was when they nerfed Fullcounter by 80%, which is also the time when you had 4 condi mirages every game. You are right about Rampage it needs cd nerf and some changes to the magic homing rock and Shake it Off got buff for POF cause anything that is condition speck trows at least 6 conditions on the slightest graze also it came at the same time they buff/nerfed Berserker stance.

Full Counter's damage got nerfed, which is a change I personally don't agree with.

But the tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were
never
nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

I really don't want to hear a Rampage Main of all classes talk about effort and skill when your build is objectively the spammiest, braindead, easiest to play, and most boosted thing in the meta right now after Holo and Scrapper, and they're also Rampage Mains.Some text that makes no sense"Looks thread creating tab" 100% of warrior ones. I think this guy 100% mains tempest ! /sYour post is like... pure nonsense, especially about "raid rotation", any warrior with a half of a brain cell will smack you for your inability to play well agaisnt him.Your explanation makes me think you were goddamn bad warrior, rip. The last time I actually did play cmirage I had not enough pressure to kill reaper , that wasnt silver reaper ofc (btw on EU top3 is a REAPER player).The part about mesmer... Even more damage than warrior from range...With every sentence you write it shows you haven't done your homework on other professions.
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@praqtos.9035 said:

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:Well it's Metabattle-official: all Conquest mesmer builds have been downgraded to third tier "good", dropping below even the likes of Fire Weaver. I know Metabattle isn't the be-all, end-all, but the recently revised Conquest lineup seems fairly accurate.

Thanks to the person who brought this to my attention. :)

Good. I actually enjoy condi mirage for once after these last couple nerfs.Now they need to bring down kitten like holo,warr and rev and game will be good.

Dunno how seriously I can take your "I like a challenge" when you jumped ship to Boonbeast back when it was the best 1v1 spec by a considerable margin.

Even when Condi Mirage was at it's most lethal (February to July 2018 after the phantasm work) at the high end of play there were plenty of builds that just stalled it out and contested the nodes in perpetuity; Spellbreaker, Prot Holo, Scrapper both before and after the gyro rework, SD Weaver, Boonbeast. All competitive. All going toe to toe with Condition Mirage at it's absolute peak.

You'd figured if they were going to gut condi mirage's damage by 50-70% across the board for both it's shatters and all of it's weapon skills that builds that were going toe to toe with Condi Mirage would also have gotten some nerfs as well. And aside from Boonbeast getting serious nerfs along side Mirage everything was either ridiculously buffed like Spellbreakers with Rampage and Shake it Off or left untouched.

Spellbreaker got nerfed multiple times and the most obvious was when they nerfed Fullcounter by 80%, which is also the time when you had 4 condi mirages every game. You are right about Rampage it needs cd nerf and some changes to the magic homing rock and Shake it Off got buff for POF cause anything that is condition speck trows at least 6 conditions on the slightest graze also it came at the same time they buff/nerfed Berserker stance.

Full Counter's damage got nerfed, which is a change I personally don't agree with.

But the tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were
never
nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

I really don't want to hear a Rampage Main of all classes talk about effort and skill when your build is objectively the spammiest, braindead, easiest to play, and most boosted thing in the meta right now after Holo and Scrapper, and they're also Rampage Mains.Some text that makes no sense"Looks thread creating tab" 100% of warrior ones. I think this guy 100% mains tempest ! /sYour post is like... pure nonsense, especially about "raid rotation", any warrior with a half of a brain cell will smack you for your inability to play well agaisnt him.Your explanation makes me think you were kitten bad warrior, rip. The last time I actually did play cmirage I had not enough pressure to kill reaper , that wasnt silver reaper ofc (btw on EU top3 is a REAPER player).The part about mesmer... Even more damage than warrior from range...With every sentence you write it shows you haven't done your homework on other professions.

Their last post convinced me it was,bait.

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First you attack the person and disregard the argument because you have nothing to of value to add and then change the subject.Your whole part of the sub devolves into pity party, someone suggests something that would fix some QOL and even rework some broken stuff that are over performing or under performing like in the first page of the tread and then everyone starts its not our fault break everything else , this beats me and that beats me yada yada. Everyone is annoyed by mesemer mains cause they can do everything but want more. Look at Revenent they have the same build for 4 years maybe its somewhat strong but its the only working one, or the guards that want to be damage dealer but is mostly sub par compared to everything else. or war that is stuck in the side node for years. Most of the POF specks need full reworks cause no amount of number tuning will help them. Some like Rev and war need some damage and cd tune but only after fixing the rest of the mess that is POF.

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I haven't posted on here in a really long time because I just haven't had a lot of time to play in the last year.BUT Mesmer balance is completely ridiculous... It feels like I'm playing flaming garbage. EVERYTHING has been nerfed to the point that I may as well not even select traits. Mirage feels even worse than it felt at launch... I can close my eyes and faceroll my keys on my Warrior and have more success (which I guess isn't saying much, its almost always been that way...) No sustained... No damage... meh mobility especially now that everyone has mounts.I have a character of every prof and have played their elites... but when I want to relax with my limited time I usually want to create beautiful butterfly explosions. I don't think its unreasonable to expect Anet to make REASONABLE and INCREMENTAL balance changes when something is overperforming...

I'd usually make suggestions about what needs to be adjusted, but its EVERYTHING./rant

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@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:Well it's Metabattle-official: all Conquest mesmer builds have been downgraded to third tier "good", dropping below even the likes of Fire Weaver. I know Metabattle isn't the be-all, end-all, but the recently revised Conquest lineup seems fairly accurate.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

Thanks to the person who brought this to my attention. :)

And yet everyone will STILL scream for more Mesmer nerfs to make up for how bad they are at the game.

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@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:Well it's Metabattle-official: all Conquest mesmer builds have been downgraded to third tier "good", dropping below even the likes of Fire Weaver. I know Metabattle isn't the be-all, end-all, but the recently revised Conquest lineup seems fairly accurate.

Thanks to the person who brought this to my attention. :)

And yet everyone will STILL scream for more Mesmer nerfs to make up for how bad they are at the game.Also in holo-nerf thread not biased holo mains tell you that core mesmer is still great and how terrible is core engi, except in core tournament I havent seen any mesmer but can find an engineers xD

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:There is lots of evidence to suggest that Anet balanced to their vision of the game.Just as they listen players as well but "convince yourself whatever you want".including the 'common sense' evidence.Its not when its comes to balance mesmer/thief

That's just salt ... regardless, it's clear how Anet balances and it's not based on who QQ's the most. That's just ridiculous. If the class doesn't work for you in PVP, you have choices. Nothing says you have to stick to a class you aren't good with.

How wrong you are.
  • Hundreds of posts crying about phantasms = let's nerf 50% damage of 2 phantasms doing 3k damage in 3s, and nerf burning coz 3 stacks every 30s is too much.
  • Hundreds of posts crying about boonshare = boon traits getting nerfed beyond useless.
  • Hundreds of posts crying about EM = In Gw1 we got Smiter's Booned, in Gw2 nerfs get EM'ed.
  • Hundreds of posts crying about Mirage dodge = Mirage Cloak being nerfed and vigor uptime becoming a joke.
  • Hundreds of posts crying about condis = Let's put 5-6 hard condi nerfs at the same time so forum mods can breathe.
  • Hundreds of posts crying about Confusing Images = Confusing Images gets 50% damage nerf even if was far from being highest damage skill.

Meanwhile, Revs have broken hammer damage and daredevils have perma evade build for 3.5 years while Soulbeast and Holo have broken damage paired with broken passive sustain for 1.5 years. Working as intended bois.

Everybody else does +7k in single hits, no problem. Mesmer does it in a 7 hit, +2s channel skill, NERF THAT KITTEN YOU CRAZY DEVS BREAKING DIS GAAAME!!!!PD: And it gets nerfed.

Crying posts are simply coincidental. There are LOTS of changes that are NOT related to players complaints. Anet has a vision. They implement it. 1000's of complaints, a handful of them are bound to be inline with that vision. You're own post PROVES it ... if Anet is changing the game based on crying posts, why are things in the game that people still crying about? That makes no sense.

@Obtena.7952 said:

They took whining side as their way of balance. Just as F3->became stun was @"Lincolnbeard.1735" idea.All nerfs on mesmer were brought by players complaining all around, calling themselves knowledgable community, rofl. "Nerf this thing and mirage is perfect!" and this repeated itself all the time they got nerfed thing they wanted, torch, jaunt, signet of midnight, illusionary ambush, confusion, portal, axe ambush, mirage evade. Dont believe me? Look for the threads on your own if you want

Convince yourself whatever you want. There is lots of evidence to suggest that Anet balanced to their vision of the game, including the 'common sense' evidence that suggests there is no reason to appeal to QQ on the forums in the first place. If Mirage doesn't work for you in PVP, you have other choices. Not all especs excel in every game mode. In fact most especs only excel in ONE game mode. I see no reason for Mirage to be any different. While I don't suggest Anet shouldn't try to make especs work well in all game modes, I would suggest that it's not a requirement for them to do so.

Hi what are you going on? Why do you favor yourself?https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74493/the-reasons-berserker-fails/p1

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