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Soulbeast Needs Some Genuine Nerf Bat Love in the Next Balance Update


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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@bigo.9037 said:You're wrong about 2 things ranger related.
  1. even if you wanted to spam unblockable, it's not viable. You merge, got 4 seconds. You wanna use some of your beast abilities before you unmerge again so you gotta wait a bit. Then AFTER you unmerge (when your weapon dmg is back to normal) you wait 10 seconds before you can do it again. Realistically, if you want to spam unblockable reasonably it's probably more like 4s/15-20s.
  2. What are you talking about with blocks? You mean Unstoppable Union? Yea you usually have to dodge it. But in a real fight you can't always wait that long without taking dmg just to use unblockable RF.

Like I said, 10 seconds "minimum." There's no internal cooldown for Unstoppable union so it's entirely possible to use it every ten seconds. While it may not be practical to do that, it is entirely possible, and still way too short for 4 seconds of unblockables tied to traits and not utilities.

I've played Sic 'Em sniper to test and it's not only possible, but rather easy to wait out beastmode's CD once, twice, or as many times as you need through movement skills, stealth, and GS weapon abilities. Even then; you get a further flat stat boost in Beatmode if you decide to stay merged, and like you just said it isn't practical to spam unstoppable union. You're completely right, it isn't practical, because most every class isn't capable of spamming blocks and the extra power and fero in beast mode makes that 82% damage multiplier even more rewarding; to which, you don't even need unstoppable union to benefit from. It's like giving someone a yacht when they ask for ice cream.

Ehh I can't really agree with the last point. Slb gets the dmg mods because the pet is gone while merged, which before pof was taken into account when balancing ranger weapon skills.
The stat bonus from slb is to make up for the loss of the pet.
(Not to mention that a lot of pets have
terrible AI that can hardly land any dmg...
Except for smokescale and birds, but they are squishy.)

What kind of a sacrifice is that if the SLB makes much better use of said "terrible AI" pet's stats anyhow? On the one hand you guys say "our pets are fine because they're squishy, bumbling AIs that can hardly land hits." Then you justify inheriting the full force of their stats on the grounds you're giving up your oh-so-valuable AI pet. Which is it?

Lol. Yea, give me the stats any day. Why do you think ppl were excited about slb? Because they wouldn't have to deal with the bad AI anymore that you just can't rely on.

Unmerged, pets are there. Can be unreliable at times, but they can deal some dmg. Your stats are "normal".

Merge, no more unreliable pet dmg, but you get extra stats to compensate.

Frankly I hate soul beast and stand by the "Ranger has a pet" Mantra, which is what the class was designed around and should of stayed designed around. You don't like it thief and engie are right there for you and no one should have to make a class or spec to cater to the screaming masses. (Suggestions are fine sure, but if ranger didn't have a pet Id never of made one.) The one thing im worried about is that ranger, core ranger is going to suffer for the over-preforming and when the nerf-bat comes down it won't be on soul-beast but rather the ranger as a whole and as a class. Which will make it either unplayably weak; Or just unfun to run around with since it won't be able to stand up properly on its own which with soul-beast here is kind of already the case. (Soulbeast feels like a straight upgrade to core, which is not how it should feel at all.)

Pretty much the story for every core spec except S/D thief and maybe Guardian, I'm afraid.

Unfortunately, if the way Anet nerfed core Mesmer, Chrono, and Mirage to get at Chrono and Mirage is any indication, your poor Ranger isn't safe. Not how it should be, but that's what we've seen.

I'm sure some SLB mains would hate it, but I've seen it suggested that SLB's tradeoff should be only having one pet. Thematically, they're so attuned to their one pet they're able to merge with it and share strengths. Because right now, they sure don't have any tradeoffs with core Ranger.

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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@bigo.9037 said:You're wrong about 2 things ranger related.
  1. even if you wanted to spam unblockable, it's not viable. You merge, got 4 seconds. You wanna use some of your beast abilities before you unmerge again so you gotta wait a bit. Then AFTER you unmerge (when your weapon dmg is back to normal) you wait 10 seconds before you can do it again. Realistically, if you want to spam unblockable reasonably it's probably more like 4s/15-20s.
  2. What are you talking about with blocks? You mean Unstoppable Union? Yea you usually have to dodge it. But in a real fight you can't always wait that long without taking dmg just to use unblockable RF.

Like I said, 10 seconds "minimum." There's no internal cooldown for Unstoppable union so it's entirely possible to use it every ten seconds. While it may not be practical to do that, it is entirely possible, and still way too short for 4 seconds of unblockables tied to traits and not utilities.

I've played Sic 'Em sniper to test and it's not only possible, but rather easy to wait out beastmode's CD once, twice, or as many times as you need through movement skills, stealth, and GS weapon abilities. Even then; you get a further flat stat boost in Beatmode if you decide to stay merged, and like you just said it isn't practical to spam unstoppable union. You're completely right, it isn't practical, because most every class isn't capable of spamming blocks and the extra power and fero in beast mode makes that 82% damage multiplier even more rewarding; to which, you don't even need unstoppable union to benefit from. It's like giving someone a yacht when they ask for ice cream.

Ehh I can't really agree with the last point. Slb gets the dmg mods because the pet is gone while merged, which before pof was taken into account when balancing ranger weapon skills.
The stat bonus from slb is to make up for the loss of the pet.
(Not to mention that a lot of pets have
terrible AI that can hardly land any dmg...
Except for smokescale and birds, but they are squishy.)

What kind of a sacrifice is that if the SLB makes much better use of said "terrible AI" pet's stats anyhow? On the one hand you guys say "our pets are fine because they're squishy, bumbling AIs that can hardly land hits." Then you justify inheriting the full force of their stats on the grounds you're giving up your oh-so-valuable AI pet. Which is it?

Lol. Yea, give me the stats any day. Why do you think ppl were excited about slb? Because they wouldn't have to deal with the bad AI anymore that you just can't rely on.

Unmerged, pets are there. Can be unreliable at times, but they can deal some dmg. Your stats are "normal".

Merge, no more unreliable pet dmg, but you get extra stats to compensate.

Frankly I hate soul beast and stand by the "Ranger has a pet" Mantra, which is what the class was designed around and should of stayed designed around. You don't like it thief and engie are right there for you and no one should have to make a class or spec to cater to the screaming masses. (Suggestions are fine sure, but if ranger didn't have a pet Id never of made one.) The one thing im worried about is that ranger, core ranger is going to suffer for the over-preforming and when the nerf-bat comes down it won't be on soul-beast but rather the ranger as a whole and as a class. Which will make it either unplayably weak; Or just unfun to run around with since it won't be able to stand up properly on its own which with soul-beast here is kind of already the case. (Soulbeast feels like a straight upgrade to core, which is not how it should feel at all.)

Pretty much the story for every core spec except S/D thief and maybe Guardian, I'm afraid.

Unfortunately, if the way Anet nerfed core Mesmer, Chrono, and Mirage to get at Chrono and Mirage is any indication, your poor Ranger isn't safe. Not how it should be, but that's what we've seen.

I'm sure some SLB mains would hate it, but I've seen it suggested that SLB's tradeoff should be only having one pet. Thematically, they're so attuned to their one pet they're able to merge with it and share strengths. Because right now, they sure don't have any tradeoffs with core Ranger.

Im affraid revenant (My main) isn't far behind either with all the complaints of Herald and the shenanigans it can pull off. Nature of the beast; When it happens Ill just dip until the next release come back and do what I did between Core and HoT when they gutted some of the stuff I liked. That's all we can do and I Feel for core messmers I Really do, it's not them but the spec that was brought in. Yet the core suffers; Which I guess is just how it works because its easier to destroy the whole class than address the failings of the elite spec and its balance.

I agree with you, or perhaps make it so they don't have a pet at all and can't swap. They are stuck in beast mode and they simply get minor amps to their damage (Nothing like now) and their skills simply act like the utilities of every other class. Thats what all these SLB mains wanted was a pet-less ranger so limit them to one pets "Soul" but they can't demerge and are stuck in beast-mode and shave down their modifiers and utility at least then maybe we wouldn't be so worried about Core.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@bigo.9037 said:You're wrong about 2 things ranger related.
  1. even if you wanted to spam unblockable, it's not viable. You merge, got 4 seconds. You wanna use some of your beast abilities before you unmerge again so you gotta wait a bit. Then AFTER you unmerge (when your weapon dmg is back to normal) you wait 10 seconds before you can do it again. Realistically, if you want to spam unblockable reasonably it's probably more like 4s/15-20s.
  2. What are you talking about with blocks? You mean Unstoppable Union? Yea you usually have to dodge it. But in a real fight you can't always wait that long without taking dmg just to use unblockable RF.

Like I said, 10 seconds "minimum." There's no internal cooldown for Unstoppable union so it's entirely possible to use it every ten seconds. While it may not be practical to do that, it is entirely possible, and still way too short for 4 seconds of unblockables tied to traits and not utilities.

I've played Sic 'Em sniper to test and it's not only possible, but rather easy to wait out beastmode's CD once, twice, or as many times as you need through movement skills, stealth, and GS weapon abilities. Even then; you get a further flat stat boost in Beatmode if you decide to stay merged, and like you just said it isn't practical to spam unstoppable union. You're completely right, it isn't practical, because most every class isn't capable of spamming blocks and the extra power and fero in beast mode makes that 82% damage multiplier even more rewarding; to which, you don't even need unstoppable union to benefit from. It's like giving someone a yacht when they ask for ice cream.

Ehh I can't really agree with the last point. Slb gets the dmg mods because the pet is gone while merged, which before pof was taken into account when balancing ranger weapon skills.
The stat bonus from slb is to make up for the loss of the pet.
(Not to mention that a lot of pets have
terrible AI that can hardly land any dmg...
Except for smokescale and birds, but they are squishy.)

What kind of a sacrifice is that if the SLB makes much better use of said "terrible AI" pet's stats anyhow? On the one hand you guys say "our pets are fine because they're squishy, bumbling AIs that can hardly land hits." Then you justify inheriting the full force of their stats on the grounds you're giving up your oh-so-valuable AI pet. Which is it?

Lol. Yea, give me the stats any day. Why do you think ppl were excited about slb? Because they wouldn't have to deal with the bad AI anymore that you just can't rely on.

Unmerged, pets are there. Can be unreliable at times, but they can deal some dmg. Your stats are "normal".

Merge, no more unreliable pet dmg, but you get extra stats to compensate.

Frankly I hate soul beast and stand by the "Ranger has a pet" Mantra, which is what the class was designed around and should of stayed designed around. You don't like it thief and engie are right there for you and no one should have to make a class or spec to cater to the screaming masses. (Suggestions are fine sure, but if ranger didn't have a pet Id never of made one.) The one thing im worried about is that ranger, core ranger is going to suffer for the over-preforming and when the nerf-bat comes down it won't be on soul-beast but rather the ranger as a whole and as a class. Which will make it either unplayably weak; Or just unfun to run around with since it won't be able to stand up properly on its own which with soul-beast here is kind of already the case. (Soulbeast feels like a straight upgrade to core, which is not how it should feel at all.)

Pretty much the story for every core spec except S/D thief and maybe Guardian, I'm afraid.

Unfortunately, if the way Anet nerfed core Mesmer, Chrono, and Mirage to get at Chrono and Mirage is any indication, your poor Ranger isn't safe. Not how it should be, but that's what we've seen.

I'm sure some SLB mains would hate it, but I've seen it suggested that SLB's tradeoff should be only having one pet. Thematically, they're so attuned to their one pet they're able to merge with it and share strengths. Because right now, they sure don't have any tradeoffs with core Ranger.

Im affraid revenant (My main) isn't far behind either with all the complaints of Herald and the shenanigans it can pull off.

I hear you. I play my core rev (though I could unlock an e-spec) daily in PvE and enjoy it. Fingers crossed that boosting core a little with Ancient Echo as a "trade off" to the elites is a sign they're taking a measured approach to core Rev.

Edit: Though the nerfs to sword and Invocation traits certainly hit core. :frown:

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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@bigo.9037 said:You're wrong about 2 things ranger related.
  1. even if you wanted to spam unblockable, it's not viable. You merge, got 4 seconds. You wanna use some of your beast abilities before you unmerge again so you gotta wait a bit. Then AFTER you unmerge (when your weapon dmg is back to normal) you wait 10 seconds before you can do it again. Realistically, if you want to spam unblockable reasonably it's probably more like 4s/15-20s.
  2. What are you talking about with blocks? You mean Unstoppable Union? Yea you usually have to dodge it. But in a real fight you can't always wait that long without taking dmg just to use unblockable RF.

Like I said, 10 seconds "minimum." There's no internal cooldown for Unstoppable union so it's entirely possible to use it every ten seconds. While it may not be practical to do that, it is entirely possible, and still way too short for 4 seconds of unblockables tied to traits and not utilities.

I've played Sic 'Em sniper to test and it's not only possible, but rather easy to wait out beastmode's CD once, twice, or as many times as you need through movement skills, stealth, and GS weapon abilities. Even then; you get a further flat stat boost in Beatmode if you decide to stay merged, and like you just said it isn't practical to spam unstoppable union. You're completely right, it isn't practical, because most every class isn't capable of spamming blocks and the extra power and fero in beast mode makes that 82% damage multiplier even more rewarding; to which, you don't even need unstoppable union to benefit from. It's like giving someone a yacht when they ask for ice cream.

Ehh I can't really agree with the last point. Slb gets the dmg mods because the pet is gone while merged, which before pof was taken into account when balancing ranger weapon skills.
The stat bonus from slb is to make up for the loss of the pet.
(Not to mention that a lot of pets have
terrible AI that can hardly land any dmg...
Except for smokescale and birds, but they are squishy.)

What kind of a sacrifice is that if the SLB makes much better use of said "terrible AI" pet's stats anyhow? On the one hand you guys say "our pets are fine because they're squishy, bumbling AIs that can hardly land hits." Then you justify inheriting the full force of their stats on the grounds you're giving up your oh-so-valuable AI pet. Which is it?

Lol. Yea, give me the stats any day. Why do you think ppl were excited about slb? Because they wouldn't have to deal with the bad AI anymore that you just can't rely on.

Unmerged, pets are there. Can be unreliable at times, but they can deal some dmg. Your stats are "normal".

Merge, no more unreliable pet dmg, but you get extra stats to compensate.

Frankly I hate soul beast and stand by the "Ranger has a pet" Mantra, which is what the class was designed around and should of stayed designed around. You don't like it thief and engie are right there for you and no one should have to make a class or spec to cater to the screaming masses. (Suggestions are fine sure, but if ranger didn't have a pet Id never of made one.) The one thing im worried about is that ranger, core ranger is going to suffer for the over-preforming and when the nerf-bat comes down it won't be on soul-beast but rather the ranger as a whole and as a class. Which will make it either unplayably weak; Or just unfun to run around with since it won't be able to stand up properly on its own which with soul-beast here is kind of already the case. (Soulbeast feels like a straight upgrade to core, which is not how it should feel at all.)

Pretty much the story for every core spec except S/D thief and maybe Guardian, I'm afraid.

Unfortunately, if the way Anet nerfed core Mesmer, Chrono, and Mirage to get at Chrono and Mirage is any indication, your poor Ranger isn't safe. Not how it should be, but that's what we've seen.

I'm sure some SLB mains would hate it, but I've seen it suggested that SLB's tradeoff should be only having one pet. Thematically, they're so attuned to their one pet they're able to merge with it and share strengths. Because right now, they sure don't have any tradeoffs with core Ranger.

Im affraid revenant (My main) isn't far behind either with all the complaints of Herald and the shenanigans it can pull off.

I hear you. I play my
core
rev (though I could unlock an e-spec) daily in PvE and enjoy it. Fingers crossed that boosting core a little with Ancient Echo as a "trade off" to the elites is a sign they're taking a measured approach to core Rev.

We can only hope, but I'd like for once to have faith in them if at all possible lol

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My experience while playing Soulbeast:

Every profession keep evading my attacks, using invulnerable skills or just taking advantage of LOS. As a Sic 'Em ranger I need to land all these skills (WI, Maul etc) in ~10 sec in order to take the kill. Otherwise I have to kite and run with little to no condi clean until all my CD reset. Most of the time I am dead or alive and have a chance to try again if the enemy isn't very strong. The problem is that all the skills are super easy to spot.

Let's be real here, shall we? How can you even compare this niche build (which is bad in a lot of things) to the more viable builds like FBs, Necros, Heralds, Spellbreakers, Holos, Scrappers? No way we can compete there! If it was so powerful, wouldn't everyone play it? Most of you are saying that Holos and SLBs are the most OP and overtuned builds, but where are all the SLBs, up there? I mean if a profession/build is stronger than another profession/build people will play it. Where are the Soulbeasts?

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@"bOTEB.1573" said:My experience while playing Soulbeast:

Every profession keep evading my attacks, using invulnerable skills or just taking advantage of LOS. As a Sic 'Em ranger I need to land all these skills (WI, Maul etc) in ~10 sec in order to take the kill. Otherwise I have to kite and run with little to no condi clean until all my CD reset. Most of the time I am dead or alive and have a chance to try again if the enemy isn't very strong. The problem is that all the skills are super easy to spot.

Let's be real here, shall we? How can you even compare this niche build (which is bad in a lot of things) to the more viable builds like FBs, Necros, Heralds, Spellbreakers, Holos, Scrappers? No way we can compete there! If it was so powerful, wouldn't everyone play it? Most of you are saying that Holos and SLBs are the most OP and overtuned builds, but where are all the SLBs, up there? I mean if a profession/build is stronger than another profession/build people will play it. Where are the Soulbeasts?

....it's like.....2018 all over again......except it's ranger now...

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@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:The soulbeast sicem lb build has been around for a very long time, kind of interesting that people suddenly start crying for nerf once a build becomes more popular. What is next, FA weaver burst being too high? If people honestly dislike 1 shot burst so much, they should be complaining about the class design, not one particular skill/combo.

it's not being cried about simply because it's more popular. It is being whined about because, slowly, the weaknesses of that build are being patched out with minor changes.

For example, the recent change to unstoppable union and unblockables in general make it so that the only projectile hate that worked actively, projectile destruction, now longer works against that damage. Add that to the fact that ranger longbow skills are markedly longer ranged than their tooltip claims, and you have classes that can open on you from outside of 1500 range and force you to burn dodges if you do not happen to be near a pillar or some obfuscating terrain.

Most of us also are, in fact, critiquing the design as well, even in this thread. Soulbeasts access to multiplicative damage, its ability to hide telegraphed, high damage attacks with stealth, its ability to revive pets by merging and thus negate any counterplay that targets the pets for disable all stack and are all contributing to the problem. The cries about rapid fire and oneshot maul are just the culmination of all of that.

"Just dodge" and "use the terrain" are not enough to justify the strength of the class. Anet has shown clearly that even highly telegraphed, unstealthable attacks that require you to be within 240 range of the opponent have a cap as to how much damage they should be able to do, and highly telegraphed attacks from distance on less tanky classes also have a limit as well. If Zerker Arc Divider and Deaths Judgement needed nerfs to allow counterplay that didnt just amount to dodging or using the terrain, then so does this.

Soulbeast also is one of the remaining elite specs that has no tradeoff that causes it to perform any differently from Core Ranger at baseline. It is essentially, as it stands right now, Core Ranger with buffs, instead of a variant on core like Anet has done for Thief, Warrior, Revenant, and Mesmer Specs.

@"bOTEB.1573" said:My experience while playing Soulbeast:

Every profession keep evading my attacks, using invulnerable skills or just taking advantage of LOS. As a Sic 'Em ranger I need to land all these skills (WI, Maul etc) in ~10 sec in order to take the kill. Otherwise I have to kite and run with little to no condi clean until all my CD reset. Most of the time I am dead or alive and have a chance to try again if the enemy isn't very strong. The problem is that all the skills are super easy to spot.

Let's be real here, shall we? How can you even compare this niche build (which is bad in a lot of things) to the more viable builds like FBs, Necros, Heralds, Spellbreakers, Holos, Scrappers? No way we can compete there! If it was so powerful, wouldn't everyone play it? Most of you are saying that Holos and SLBs are the most OP and overtuned builds, but where are all the SLBs, up there? I mean if a profession/build is stronger than another profession/build people will play it. Where are the Soulbeasts?

Mmm.

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@"bOTEB.1573" said:Most of you are saying that Holos and SLBs are the most OP and overtuned builds, but where are all the SLBs, up there? I mean if a profession/build is stronger than another profession/build people will play it. Where are the Soulbeasts?

Here are some in last season's top 50 according to an authoritative SLB main (note that they aren't saying these are the only ones):

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/899699/#Comment_899699

Also 1, maybe 2 Sic 'Em SLB won the recent NA monthly:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/940254/#Comment_940254

Just because your spec doesn't dominate the top of the leaderboard (but is still adequately represented) does not categorically mean it's free of issues. When will you stop with this tired and fallacious argument that was also made in defense of condi mirage (when there actually were but 1 or 2 in the top 100)?

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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Most of you are saying that Holos and SLBs are the most OP and overtuned builds, but
where are all the SLBs, up there?
I mean if a profession/build is stronger than another profession/build people will play it. Where are the Soulbeasts?

Here are some in last season's top 50 according to an authoritative SLB main (note that they aren't saying these are the only ones):

Also 1, maybe 2 Sic 'Em SLB won the recent NA monthly:

Just because your spec doesn't dominate the top of the leaderboard (but is still adequately represented) does not categorically mean it's free of issues. When will you stop with this tired and fallacious argument that was also made in defense of condi mirage (when there actually were but 1 or 2 in the top 100)?

ItS OnLy GoOd As A nOoB sToMpEr

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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Most of you are saying that Holos and SLBs are the most OP and overtuned builds, but
where are all the SLBs, up there?
I mean if a profession/build is stronger than another profession/build people will play it. Where are the Soulbeasts?

Here are some in last season's top 50 according to an authoritative SLB main (note that they aren't saying these are the only ones):

Also 1, maybe 2 Sic 'Em SLB won the recent NA monthly:

Just because your spec doesn't dominate the top of the leaderboard (but is still adequately represented) does not categorically mean it's free of issues. When will you stop with this tired and fallacious argument that was also made in defense of condi mirage (when there actually were but 1 or 2 in the top 100)?

This^Wish people would stop using said class wasn't in top 10so its weak arguement,its a useless arguement. If a class has a op skill or burst that doesn't mean it automatically will be used in high ranks. The skill or burst could be avoidable by high skill players or is countable by a class or 2 that are commonly used in the meta at the time OR they build doesn't land enough to team play that conquest requires or doesnt synergize well with the common meta comps. Bin beast is a good side noder but sic em is less sustainable and requires being reliant on a burst that high skill players can play around. That does not mean that the burst does not do to much dps or that it not OP and more effective in other modes(wvw) ranger is literally the most common roamer or class in general in my wvw server and it's not because its zerger power lol. No one is saying slb is OP its sic em itself that's OP.

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@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:When will you stop with this tired and fallacious argument that was also made in defense of condi mirage (when there actually were but 1 or 2 in the top 100)?

When you stop with the absurd requests about unneccessery nerfs.

How many Soulbeast are in top 50, again? Lets compare them with the other builds.

Their necessary, I kno that's hard to accept about ur class. Soulbeast isn't OP sic em is. Druid needs buffs I will say that.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Their necessary, I kno that's hard to accept about ur class. Soulbeast isn't OP sic em is. Druid needs buffs I will say that.

It is not OP at all. Most high tier rangers don't even run with it, fact (because it is useless against skilled enemies) - they prefer more stun breaks and invulnerability. Lets not build our nerf suggestion strategies according to bronze/silver/gold tiers, where we can see a lot more playstyle flaws.

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@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:When will you stop with this tired and fallacious argument that was also made in defense of condi mirage (when there actually were but 1 or 2 in the top 100)?

When you stop with the absurd requests about unneccessery nerfs.

How many Soulbeasts are in top 50, again? Lets compare them with the other builds.

Mirage got it's damage gutted by 50% when it didn't even have representation in the top 10. Soulbeast has top 10 representation every season on NA.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:Mirage got it's damage gutted by 50% when it didn't even have representation in the top 10. Soulbeast has top 10 representation every season on NA.

Sorry but your logic is wrong. There were/are more mirages than soulbeasts and just because your favorite profession has been nerfed a little (you got the same logic as the OP) doesn't mean everything else should be nerfed.

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@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Their necessary, I kno that's hard to accept about ur class. Soulbeast isn't OP sic em is. Druid needs buffs I will say that.

It is not OP at all. Most high tier rangers don't even run with it, fact, (because it is useless against skilled enemies) - they prefer more stun breaks and invulnerability. Lets not build our nerf suggestion strategies according to bronze/silver/gold tiers, where we can see a lot more playstyle flaws.

Again u can keep using the it's not in top ranks arguement but means little. Sic em may not be a top pic for high tier players,that means little. In wvw SIC EM builds are literally every other player u see because it's broken unblockable dps at such a range. Just because it's not a skill picked often in high tier due to there being more reliable options for THAT game mode that fill the purpose of the player doesnt make it not OP in other modes. Although I'm sure sic em is used in conquest regardless of u stating it isn't. That skill alone with the range would make a slb a decent +1 spec .

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@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Mirage got it's damage gutted by 50% when it didn't even have representation in the top 10. Soulbeast has top 10 representation every season on NA.

Sorry but your logic is wrong. There were/are more mirages than soulbeasts and just because your favorite profession has been nerfed a little (you got the same logic as the OP) doesn't mean everything else should get nerfed

Literally nothing more than a slb main defending their fav class lol. Slb burst will get nerfed, u might as well accept it. Slb isn't some special spec that will avoid it's broken burst getting hammered by the dreaded bat lol its avoided it surprisingly long as it is but its coming. No class should have access to a burst that high, unblockable and at such a range on top of everything. Its ubserd to think it wont get hit lol and saying its avoidable is silly cuz almost ever skill is in some way or another so.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Literally nothing more than a slb main defending their fav class lol. Slb burst will get nerfed, u might as well accept it. Slb isn't some special spec that will avoid it's broken burst getting hammered by the dreaded bat lol its avoided it surprisingly long as it is but its coming.

Sorry to dissapoint you but it is not logical to hammer the SLB because its overall performance is bad to average. Sure, it works sometimes (mainly against afk/new/unskilled players) but the overall performance of the build is bad... Like not only in PvP... but everywhere. With the current PvP meta of FBs, Necros, Heralds, Spellbreakers, Holos, Scrappers, the SLB is just... extremely bad.Buuut... What can I say... Good luck with that, everyone has their wish, look my signature for example ;)

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Their necessary, I kno that's hard to accept about ur class. Soulbeast isn't OP sic em is. Druid needs buffs I will say that.

It is not OP at all. Most high tier rangers don't even run with it, fact, (because it is useless against skilled enemies) - they prefer more stun breaks and invulnerability. Lets not build our nerf suggestion strategies according to bronze/silver/gold tiers, where we can see a lot more playstyle flaws.

Again u can keep using the it's not in top ranks arguement but means little. Sic em may not be a top pic for high tier players,that means little. In wvw SIC EM builds are literally every other player u see because it's broken unblockable dps at such a range. Just because it's not a skill picked often in high tier due to there being more reliable options for THAT game mode that fill the purpose of the player doesnt make it not OP in other modes. Although I'm sure sic em is used in conquest regardless of u stating it isn't. That skill alone with the range would make a slb a decent +1 spec .

Firstly this is a pvp forum not wvw. Wvw perspective hardly mean anything here. Secondly, good players can easily deal with a sicem ranger if they are ready for it even in wvw. I killed many of them on my slb without using sicem. I've died a few times cus I wasn't ready, or straight up afk to sicem rangers. I've died more often to mesmers 1shotting me out of stealth. Talk about 0 counter play lol. But hey, that's my own fault for running around with squishy armor that has 0 toughness and low protection uptime.

Again, gold tier players (pvp) and below... You are shooting yourself in the foot by wanting nerfs to classes you can't deal with .. the game will be dumbed down and no matter what 1 build will always be annoying or stronger than yours...

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@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Literally nothing more than a slb main defending their fav class lol. Slb burst will get nerfed, u might as well accept it. Slb isn't some special spec that will avoid it's broken burst getting hammered by the dreaded bat lol its avoided it surprisingly long as it is but its coming.

Sorry to dissapoint you but it is not logical to hammer the SLB because its overall performance is bad to average. Sure, it works sometimes (mainly against afk/new/unskilled players) but the overall performance of the build is bad... Like not only in PvP... but everywhere. With the current PvP meta of FBs, Necros, Heralds, Spellbreakers, Holos, Scrappers, the SLB is just... extremely bad.Buuut... What can I say... Good luck with that, everyone has their wish, look my signature for example ;)

Oh its completely logical to hammer sic em ( not slb)

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@bigo.9037 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Their necessary, I kno that's hard to accept about ur class. Soulbeast isn't OP sic em is. Druid needs buffs I will say that.

It is not OP at all. Most high tier rangers don't even run with it, fact, (because it is useless against skilled enemies) - they prefer more stun breaks and invulnerability. Lets not build our nerf suggestion strategies according to bronze/silver/gold tiers, where we can see a lot more playstyle flaws.

Again u can keep using the it's not in top ranks arguement but means little. Sic em may not be a top pic for high tier players,that means little. In wvw SIC EM builds are literally every other player u see because it's broken unblockable dps at such a range. Just because it's not a skill picked often in high tier due to there being more reliable options for THAT game mode that fill the purpose of the player doesnt make it not OP in other modes. Although I'm sure sic em is used in conquest regardless of u stating it isn't. That skill alone with the range would make a slb a decent +1 spec .

Firstly this is a pvp forum not wvw. Wvw perspective hardly mean anything here. Secondly, good players can easily deal with a sicem ranger if they are ready for it even in wvw. I killed many of them on my slb without using sicem. I've died a few times cus I wasn't ready, or straight up afk to sicem rangers. I've died more often to mesmers 1shotting me out of stealth. Talk about 0 counter play lol. But hey, that's my own fault for running around with squishy armor that has 0 toughness and low protection uptime.

Again, gold tier players (pvp) and below... You are shooting yourself in the foot by wanting nerfs to classes you can't deal with .. the game will be dumbed down and no matter what 1 build will always be annoying or stronger than yours...

They dont balance classes just for conquest nor wvw so how a class effects one mode effects another. If a class is broken in wvw while not as broken in pvp scourge as example does not mean it's fine since it's ok in pvp conquest mode. Since balancing and changes to a class effect it in both modes discussing its balance in conquest also carries over to wvw no? That's why I included wvw as both are effected by changes and balance of classes in both have to be considered.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Their necessary, I kno that's hard to accept about ur class. Soulbeast isn't OP sic em is. Druid needs buffs I will say that.

It is not OP at all. Most high tier rangers don't even run with it, fact, (because it is useless against skilled enemies) - they prefer more stun breaks and invulnerability. Lets not build our nerf suggestion strategies according to bronze/silver/gold tiers, where we can see a lot more playstyle flaws.

Again u can keep using the it's not in top ranks arguement but means little. Sic em may not be a top pic for high tier players,that means little. In wvw SIC EM builds are literally every other player u see because it's broken unblockable dps at such a range. Just because it's not a skill picked often in high tier due to there being more reliable options for THAT game mode that fill the purpose of the player doesnt make it not OP in other modes. Although I'm sure sic em is used in conquest regardless of u stating it isn't. That skill alone with the range would make a slb a decent +1 spec .

Firstly this is a pvp forum not wvw. Wvw perspective hardly mean anything here. Secondly, good players can easily deal with a sicem ranger if they are ready for it even in wvw. I killed many of them on my slb without using sicem. I've died a few times cus I wasn't ready, or straight up afk to sicem rangers. I've died more often to mesmers 1shotting me out of stealth. Talk about 0 counter play lol. But hey, that's my own fault for running around with squishy armor that has 0 toughness and low protection uptime.

Again, gold tier players (pvp) and below... You are shooting yourself in the foot by wanting nerfs to classes you can't deal with .. the game will be dumbed down and no matter what 1 build will always be annoying or stronger than yours...

They dont balance classes just for conquest nor wvw so how a class effects one mode effects another. If a class is broken in wvw while not as broken in pvp scourge as example does not mean it's fine since it's ok in pvp conquest mode. Since balancing and changes to a class effect it in both modes discussing its balance in conquest also carries over to wvw no? That's why I included wvw as both are effected by changes and balance of classes in both have to be considered.

Wrong wrong wrong. Conquest is different from wvw. Something that works in wvw doesn't always work in spvp. Why do you think they split the balance between those modes?

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