GW2's odd version of flying . . . Why can't your mount, like Just. Fly.??

[ShadowGryphon.6257]

@Ashantara.8731 said:Have you tried the Griffon? No? It flies. (gasp) ;)

Okay, I get you. It does not launch from the ground, like the Skyscale. They devided a bird's abilities between the two, it seems. But I believe it is for the better, as otherwise no one would use any of the other means of traversing maps anymore, and it could ruin the game.

Sorry but gliding does not equal flying.To take flight implies the ability to gain altitude. The Gryphon is simply a long distance glider.

[Ashantara.8731]

@ShadowGryphon.6257 said:To take flight implies the ability to gain altitude. The Gryphon is simply a long distance glider.

No, it is not... quite. You can dive with super speed and gain an incredible amount of altitude.

[Airdive.2613]

@ShadowGryphon.6257 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:Have you tried the Griffon? No? It flies. (gasp) ;)

Okay, I get you. It does not launch from the ground, like the Skyscale. They devided a bird's abilities between the two, it seems. But I believe it is for the better, as otherwise no one would use any of the other means of traversing maps anymore, and it could ruin the game.

Sorry but gliding does not equal flying.To take flight implies the ability to

gain

altitude. The Gryphon is simply a long distance glider.

I mean, if we're really doing this, here's what I find on the internet:

"Flight is the process by which an object moves through an atmosphere (or beyond it, as in the case of spaceflight) without contact with the surface." - Wikipedia.

"[to fly]a : to move in or pass through the air with wingsb : to move through the air or before the wind or through outer spacec : to float, wave, or soar in the air" - Merriam-Webster dictionary.

Sure, these are just some of possible meanings, but the point is our mounts in GW 2 are technically flying.

[DeWolfe.2174]

@"Trise.2865" said:Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

Every zone is a "fly-over zone" when you can simply way point to a specific area and way point back out again.

[BlueJin.4127]

@castlemanic.3198 said:Can you provide evidence of this? If you have an article or something where the devs have stated that they don't think flying is an issue please share it.

No, I cannot. Like I said, employees are not allowed to say certain things out in public. Even without inside info, I’m sure everybody knows that not everybody on the same team agrees with a design.

Also, I recommend taking articles with a grain of salt. I used to work at a game company and had some connections to other companies, as well. Sometimes, game publishers push complete lies as facts to the public, and I’m not making it sound dramatic or exaggerating. Some of the stuff I know is just... disgusting... Not saying that this particular article people are referencing is BS. Just a general advice. I’m sure this isn’t specific to the game industry.

[Substance E.4852]

@BlueJin.4127 said:

@castlemanic.3198 said:Can you provide evidence of this? If you have an article or something where the devs have stated that they don't think flying is an issue please share it.

No, I cannot. Like I said, employees are not allowed to say certain things out in public. Even without inside info, I’m sure everybody knows that not everybody on the same team agrees with a design.

Also, I recommend taking articles with a grain of salt. I used to work at a game company and had some connections to other companies, as well. Sometimes, game publishers push complete lies as facts to the public, and I’m not making it sound dramatic or exaggerating. Some of the stuff I know is just... disgusting... Not saying that this particular article people are referencing is BS. Just a general advice. I’m sure this isn’t specific to the game industry.

So in other words, nothing to back up what you said other than that we take your word on it?

It's also an easily observable fact that having to travel by land involves a level of risk and navigation that is often completely negated by flight.

Moving across maps in WoW while flying is basically you pointing yourself in the direction you want to go, hitting auto run, and then tabbing out to get a drink and watch some netflix

[Jora.5471]

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

Every zone is a "fly-over zone" when you can simply way point to a specific area and way point back out again.

You got to find the waypoint first. Which you can fly over the zones to get to with a true flying mount.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

People are dancing around it but the fact of the matter is it's because Anet is obsessed with being "different". A lot of the times it's a good thing but sometimes it's just a head scratcher.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

About 50% of the maps in this game were not designed with gliding in mind. 99.99% of the maps in this game were not design with Skyscale movement.

True Flight would break the ever living shit out of the game's maps, so ArenaNet wants to avoid it. They knew Skyscale would break maps, so they added various preventions to help reducing the breaking.

Simple as that. Whether you agree or disagree is another matter, but that's ArenaNet's stance on the matter. Fewer things to break out of maps, the better, but gotta give players that new demanded shiny or else they lose money.

[Ygdrasill.9135]

I really haven't found anywhere I can't get to that actually allows mounts and I don't even have the skyscale yet. Keep in mind that mounts were part of WoW from the initial game design so the game space was designed with them in mind. Even so, they've more and more put in artifical limits to using the flying mounts with each new expansion. We should be glad mounts even work in the earlier maps at all. I will flat out admit that the first thing I did when I started playing earlier this year was get Path of Fire, use my level 80 boost (if you do this, don't do it on an Elementalist, trust me) and went for the mounts. I've since run two other characters through the base story, but it was FAR easier than it was probably designed to be because I could move much faster and get to areas much more easily. The Springer is bad enough for breaking what should be difficult to do. The Griffon just turns a lot of things into a face roll. The Skyscale promises to do the same for certain things. Need Volatile magic? Forget Dragonfall, just go to Thunderhead Peak and get it all there. No more having to use the springer and griffon with at least a little finesse.

[LucianDK.8615]

Normal flying aka wow is just too mindless. The Gw2 model makes you pay more attention. And already stated, no mount should ever obsolete another. Which is why mounts with flying ability MUST have limitations.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

The mounts in GW2 cant truly fly in order to provide more use to the other mounts. If it could truly fly you wouldnt need the bunny, the skimmer, raptor or jackal, or even the griffon.

Its a game, not a fantasy flightsimulator. Certain features are limited so other features can shine more.

[ShadowGryphon.6257]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"ShadowGryphon.6257" said:To take flight implies the ability to

gain

altitude. The Gryphon is simply a long distance glider.

No, it is not... quite. You can dive with super speed and gain an incredible amount of altitude.

Let me reiterate: when a plane is in flight it can gain altitude by either adding power to the engines or using a dive to gain enough speed to then climb.The Gryphon's can, at best, maintain a level flight path for a short distance but then they slowly glide towards the ground. And, unless I've missed something, I have yet to have my Gryphon gain altitude on a long glide.Putting a Gryphon into a dive and then "pulling up" does not actually lead to a gain in altitude just an increase in speed.

[ShadowGryphon.6257]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@ShadowGryphon.6257 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:Have you tried the Griffon? No? It flies. (gasp) ;)

Okay, I get you. It does not launch from the ground, like the Skyscale. They devided a bird's abilities between the two, it seems. But I believe it is for the better, as otherwise no one would use any of the other means of traversing maps anymore, and it could ruin the game.

Sorry but gliding does not equal flying.To take flight implies the ability to

gain

altitude. The Gryphon is simply a long distance glider.

I mean, if we're really doing this, here's what I find on the internet:

"Flight is the process by which an object moves through an atmosphere (or beyond it, as in the case of spaceflight) without contact with the surface." - Wikipedia.

"[to fly]a : to move in or pass through the air with wingsb : to move through the air or before the wind or through outer spacec : to float, wave, or soar in the air" - Merriam-Webster dictionary.

Sure, these are just

some

of possible meanings, but the point is our mounts in GW 2 are technically flying.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/glideglide verb\ ˈglīd\glided; glidingintransitive verb1 : to move smoothly, continuously, and effortlessly2 : to go or pass imperceptibly3a of an airplane : to descend gradually in controlled flightb : to fly in a glider4 : to produce a glide (as in music or speech)

Gryphons in GW2 are glorified gliders. They do not/ cannot gain altitude when gliding over a long distance. And putting one into a dive simply kicks in the booster at a lower altitude when you "pull up".And I'll concede the point about flight as that was a poor choice of words on my part, but my argument is still the same.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"Vyrulisse.1246" said:People are dancing around it but the fact of the matter is it's because Anet is obsessed with being "different". A lot of the times it's a good thing but sometimes it's just a head scratcher.

WoW devs are on record as saying they wished they hadn't introduced flying. Being "different" sometimes is just learning from the mistakes of others.

[pinerider.1950]

@ShadowGryphon.6257 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@ShadowGryphon.6257 said:To take flight implies the ability to

gain

altitude. The Gryphon is simply a long distance glider.

No, it is not... quite. You can dive with super speed and gain an incredible amount of altitude.

Let me reiterate: when a plane is in flight it can gain altitude by either adding power to the engines or using a dive to gain enough speed to then climb.The Gryphon's can, at best, maintain a level flight path for a short distance but then they slowly glide towards the ground. And, unless I've missed something, I have yet to have my Gryphon gain altitude on a long glide.Putting a Gryphon into a dive and then "pulling up" does not actually lead to a gain in altitude just an increase in speed.

At around 19 seconds in, the person on their griffon uses their super speed, or whatever it's called, to climb to a much higher altitude than it was currently gliding at, and then doing another dive to regain super speed, so that they could climb to a higher altitude again if they wanted/needed to, but in this instance they finished the course, so climbing again isn't necessary. Assuming that a person's reflexes are good enough, and there's plenty of space below you, I believe it should be possible to keep a griffon in the air indefinitely with the dive/super speed/climb mechanics.

[Mithos.9023]

Now to get things out of the way first, I have to say your writing style is really hard to read and feels strange. Therefore, I can understand why many find it obnoxious. But what irritates me more is why all your comments are so incredible passive aggressive? They often read really rude. Do you hate the others so much for stating their opinion? Even your appraisal of some comments sounds rather wrong actually.

But be it as it is, to add something new, I have an idea that might solve the free flight problem. To not repeat everything said already, the trick might be to work around the limiting factor of the skyskale to not invalidate the older mounts. This can only be achieved in a new environment, a new map therefore. Free flight might be a new feature for a new map. That way everything else stays as relevant as it is.

A few more ideas here:

• I have the idea/wish of a floating map in my mind now, for at least a year. A map that might be larger than 3 or 4 pof maps combined with a lot of small islands floating around. A map that would invite to a lot of exploration in all 3 axis. A little like the world from skyward sword. And if you fall you "fall" into the maps below. Might be resource draining on arenanets site, having a map so large but it would not need a ceiling or bottom and the overall landmass might not be needed to be much bigger than in the current maps, just that it is more spread out and has more small things to do in between the islands.

• Other option might be a map with the current size, being a float as well, but having a big central mass with extreme high z verticality.

• Or a map with a giant Mountain that can have a lot ov z verticality and exploration as well.

So while I am on arenanets with the current mount design, by limiting it to zones free flight could definitiv be a thing.To go a little wild here, how about a zone as large as the current world above the ground that would let you flight from one point in the world to another? Might just be a little empty.

[DeWolfe.2174]

@runeblade.7514 said:

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

Every zone is a "fly-over zone" when you can simply way point to a specific area and way point back out again.

You got to find the waypoint first. Which you can fly over the zones to get to with a true flying mount.

You have to find the way point once, 6 years and thousands of hours later.....

[Jora.5471]

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@runeblade.7514 said:

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

Every zone is a "fly-over zone" when you can simply way point to a specific area and way point back out again.

You got to find the waypoint first. Which you can fly over the zones to get to with a true flying mount.

You have to find the way point once, 6 years and thousands of hours later.....

I like how this post assumes ANet doesn't add new maps.

Did I miss the memo that ANet announced no more new maps ever again?

[DeWolfe.2174]

For the Skyscale, even if the devs don't want it to fly high over the zones, it should be able to fly just off the ground. Like right now what I would modify on the Skyscale is also allowing it to maintain a low flying height off the ground or water like the Skimmer. For the Skimmer, I'd keep it mostly as is but, increase the land speed slightly and make it able to dive and swim in the water.

[DeWolfe.2174]

@runeblade.7514 said:

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@runeblade.7514 said:

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

Every zone is a "fly-over zone" when you can simply way point to a specific area and way point back out again.

You got to find the waypoint first. Which you can fly over the zones to get to with a true flying mount.

You have to find the way point once, 6 years and thousands of hours later.....

I like how this post assumes ANet doesn't add new maps.

Did I miss the memo that ANet announced no more new maps ever again?

It's always going to be the same, you only have to find it once.

[Jora.5471]

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@runeblade.7514 said:

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@runeblade.7514 said:

@DeWolfe.2174 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

Every zone is a "fly-over zone" when you can simply way point to a specific area and way point back out again.

You got to find the waypoint first. Which you can fly over the zones to get to with a true flying mount.

You have to find the way point once, 6 years and thousands of hours later.....

I like how this post assumes ANet doesn't add new maps.

Did I miss the memo that ANet announced no more new maps ever again?

It's always going to be the same, you only have to find it once.

Good thing Skyscale without true flight won't ruin that one time experience then.

[Jora.5471]

@DeWolfe.2174 said:For the Skyscale, even if the devs don't want it to fly high over the zones, it should be able to fly just off the ground. Like right now what I would modify on the Skyscale is also allowing it to maintain a low flying height off the ground or water like the Skimmer. For the Skimmer, I'd keep it mostly as is but, increase the land speed slightly and make it able to dive and swim in the water.

Your wish is granted. It can already fly off from the ground. And I am talking about the skimmer-mode skyscale you want. Once you land and run out of flight juice, you instantly regain all flight juice allowing you to fly off the ground immediately.

[Leo G.4501]

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Three words: "fly-over zones". You play WoW, so you know what that term means, and why GW2 should avoid it like the plague.

Please explain to me in plain words,how a bird,behaving exactly like a real bird,is somehow artificial?

If we're talking pure realism, real birds aren't even used as mounts.Personally, I have no idea if they can fly at all with a noticeable additional load (a rider) on their back.

Actual predator birds have been known to carry up to 150% of their weight in their talons.It is not a far stretch at all to imagine they could carry the same weight on their backs.My question still remains:

Please explain to me in plain words,how a bird,behaving exactly like a real bird,is somehow artificial?

And why is GW2 so very reluctant to replicate that?

Are you sure about that?

I wouldn't call it "carrying up", more like guided descent. Even if a large bird carried up weight into the air, they likely did so with a maneuver that required building up speed first. Frankly, arguing realism is foolish to begin with when you're talking about a video game. Why not take off your outrage cap and ask yourself, if you were making a game, what considerations you'd need to make to facilitate 100% flight and what it'd do to the core of your game.

Not saying flight is a death knell for an MMO, it's just different games have different vibes and goals. I bet the individuals that derided the idea of mounts in GW2 are chuckling to themselves thinking, "yup, there's your slippery slope. enjoy the ride as your game loses all mystery or sense of scale".

[Vayne.8563]

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Kabuki Theatre.9752 said:how a bird,behaving exactly like a real bird,is somehow artificial?

No one is making that argument.Because (a) a Griffon is not a bird, (b) a Griffon doesn't exist in our world, © and everything in GW2 is artificial in some way besides the obvious.

---

There are, however, lots of reasons why it would be bad for Guild Wars 2, and fine for other games.

• GW2 already allows skipping zones by use of waypoints; mount travel is slower.
• Other games tend to have more stuff that people want to skip; generally, all zones in GW2 have potentially interesting areas.
• Everything in GW2 is balanced (theoretically). Each mount is setup to have their own niche, to be less useful in some arenas. Each is setup to have advantages/disadvantages compared to 'walking'.

In the end, it's a design choice: it's more fun this way (in ANet's opinion, and that of many players).

Actually, it seems otherwise . . .GW2 wants you to spend the time, energy, blood, sweat, tears and(not insignificantly)GOLD,to acquire a half-dozen or more mounts to accomplish the same thingthat twowould easily accomplish:A land-based creature,and a Bird.

For a lot of people flying mount ruined WOW. But this game is different from WoW where pretty much everything in the open world can be soloed and you never go back to it once you've leveled and done it once. Empty zones are a complaint I've heard about even in the mid levels of WoW the most popular MMO of all time. How so then would it be in a game with group events.

Anet is quite correct in not introducing mounts that allow you to ignore entire zones. If you want to go somewhere fast, use a waypoint. The total amount of gold for all the mounts put together is minuscule for the number of mounts you get. You seem to think long term goals shouldn't require player investment in time. I think you're wrong about that.

But without gold sinks, what happens to any game is the economy spirals out of control, new players can never catch up and you place a barrier to anyone starting that game, which is terrible for the game. Gold sinks are vital to the health of the game.

The idea that the gold sink is just so Anet can make more money is a conspiracy theory of the highest order, because virtually every decent MMO has gold sinks, for good reason.