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Dead/killed traits and skills


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@otto.5684 said:I did a similar thread for guardian a while back. This is not a Mesmer exclusive problem unfortunately. However the dev team is very busy you guys know. The paper planes are not going to make themselves ?

@Safandula.8723 said:Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.IMO

We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

I have to disagree with this as well..Mesmer has the illusion of choice.Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

What context are we talking? Mesmer right now is the worst class in sPvP. I do not WvW, but I know Mesmer is a good roamer, both power and condi. That is more than most classes. Group PvE, Mesmer has viable power, condi and support builds. They are not the best, but they perform well.

Open world PvE, I strongly disagree. Mesmer is currently the best class in open world PvE, with loads of viable setups.

And honestly, all classes have limited useful traits and skills. The illusion of choice applies to all classes. Mesmer in PvE has it better than most.This. I was thinking to write something similar to this. In pve u have different builds. In pvp... ? God damn,they still crying about it xDAnd safandula dont even play mesmer further than PVE,so I guess this helicopter is talking only about pve
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@Xstein.2187 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.IMO

We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

I have to disagree with this as well..Mesmer has the illusion of choice.Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

Rev, thief, engi, Necro. Among these classes, Mesmer has the biggest choice of usefull traits.Lot of Mesmer traits may have balance issues, but a lot of them can change the way u play. While other classes has traits that just give u x or y, give passive something, moar dmg

Can you plz name what trait choices you are talking about?

domi, for double phantasm, boonstriping, stun, quickness, more dmg on shatter, or dmg on interruptsdueling for dmg mainly, but also for decoy and few shitty master traitsinspiration, for condi cleanse, healing from mantras, res trait, and lot of distortion ( yea i play it on power build)not sure about illu, i find it kinda useless outside of pvechaos, for shiton of boons, superspeed, stealth,chaos armor and protection

now look at thief which traits i know the most

ur always forced to take trickery cuz of how useless ur steal is without it, and for prepardnessnow u can take cs or DA, 2 traitlines that gives dmg. cs brings more constant dmg, but DA boost ur burst. if thief doesnt take any of these traitlines, he doesnt deal any dmg (he can if spamming vault all the time). also da is kinda better, since thief has 11k base hp so he cant deal constant dmg and is forced to burst and run.acro is good for mem builds without dmg, or core s/dSA is shit

yea i play chrono in wvw, where i have much more freedom of choice and not touching pvp atm. yea certainly if ur thinking about pvp only, than in contest, there is something as meta, and other build might not be that usefull. hope ur aware what contest is, and what dictates of rules out there

but yeah, plz cry further about how badly designed is mesmer, and why it needs more love than other classes, hf

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@Safandula.8723 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.IMO

We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

I have to disagree with this as well..Mesmer has the illusion of choice.Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

Rev, thief, engi, Necro. Among these classes, Mesmer has the biggest choice of usefull traits.Lot of Mesmer traits may have balance issues, but a lot of them can change the way u play. While other classes has traits that just give u x or y, give passive something, moar dmg

Can you plz name what trait choices you are talking about?

domi, for double phantasm, boonstriping, stun, quickness, more dmg on shatter, or dmg on interruptsdueling for dmg mainly, but also for decoy and few kitten master traitsinspiration, for condi cleanse, healing from mantras, res trait, and lot of distortion ( yea i play it on power build)not sure about illu, i find it kinda useless outside of pvechaos, for shiton of boons, superspeed, stealth,chaos armor and protection

now look at thief which traits i know the most

ur always forced to take trickery cuz of how useless ur steal is without it, and for prepardnessnow u can take cs or DA, 2 traitlines that gives dmg. cs brings more constant dmg, but DA boost ur burst. if thief doesnt take any of these traitlines, he doesnt deal any dmg (he can if spamming vault all the time). also da is kinda better, since thief has 11k base hp so he cant deal constant dmg and is forced to burst and run.acro is good for mem builds without dmg, or core s/dSA is kitten

yea i play chrono in wvw, where i have much more freedom of choice and not touching pvp atm. yea certainly if ur thinking about pvp only, than in contest, there is something as meta, and other build might not be that usefull. hope ur aware what contest is, and what dictates of rules out there

Most of the time when people talk about balance they are talking about Spvp. Mainly because of the fact it is much more balanced than the inflated monster that is WvW. ( an example would be perma stealth DE in WvW vs Perma stealth DE in Spvp. Their is a reason no one plays DE in spvp let alone perma stealth)but since that is also a gamemode I listed lets take into account some of the useful trait choices for that as well.Also you think SA is kitten, yet every other perma stealth DE I see in WvW runs it, then MBS for 10k+.....

With that being said, Again, most of the trait choices simply do not work.Dom? You have 1 trait worth taking in adept. 2 traits worth taking in master. 2 traits worth taking in GM - 5 solid choices ( and one of them isn't the GS trait.)Dueling? You have 2 traits worth taking in Adept and the second one entirely depends on the type of build you are running, and one solid GM- 3 solid choicesInspiration? (Sure if you are running some tanky chrono, otherwise you lose A LOT of damage )how many traits are actually good in this line? 4-5?Chaos from what I count is the only traitline with decent choice of 6 of 9Illusions has maybe 3-4 useful traits.

For thief?DA has a good solid choice of 7 traits to choose from.CS-5 ( or 6 if you go perma fury pew pew)SA- 3-4( GM's in this traitline are trash)Acro has a solid 5 traitsTrickery is a nice solid 7.

And this is just the Core.

We arent talking about the amount of BUILDS.We are talking about the amount of USEFUL traits.For exampleLets say Mesmer has 3 builds- and in each build it can only take from each traitline 2-3 traitsVs Thief which can have 2 builds- yet it's traitlines offer the choice of 6-7 traits.

You would say the theif has it worse. It only has 2 builds.But the point isn't the amount of builds.The thief has more choice in how it wants those builds to play.

I would love to see what traits you think are good in the core lines for mes and which ones you don't think are good for theif. This would help both parties.Please try to remember.We aren't talking about the number of builds. But the number of traits that are useful.And try to be more civil, no need for un-pleasantries

Edit: and If we were to go by meta battle ( something people were really quick to bring up when mes was doing OK) thief in WvW has more builds in the Great section and more builds rated higher in Spvp vs that of mesmer.https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvWLinks above for meta battle if you want to verify that yourself.Thief has more viable, higher rated builds (builds listed in the great section with a rating ), than mes does.

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@Safandula.8723 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.IMO

We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

I have to disagree with this as well..Mesmer has the illusion of choice.Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

Rev, thief, engi, Necro. Among these classes, Mesmer has the biggest choice of usefull traits.Lot of Mesmer traits may have balance issues, but a lot of them can change the way u play. While other classes has traits that just give u x or y, give passive something, moar dmg

Can you plz name what trait choices you are talking about?

domi, for double phantasm, boonstriping, stun, quickness, more dmg on shatter, or dmg on interruptsdueling for dmg mainly, but also for decoy and few kitten master traitsinspiration, for condi cleanse, healing from mantras, res trait, and lot of distortion ( yea i play it on power build)not sure about illu, i find it kinda useless outside of pvechaos, for shiton of boons, superspeed, stealth,chaos armor and protection

now look at thief which traits i know the most

ur always forced to take trickery cuz of how useless ur steal is without it, and for prepardnessnow u can take cs or DA, 2 traitlines that gives dmg. cs brings more constant dmg, but DA boost ur burst. if thief doesnt take any of these traitlines, he doesnt deal any dmg (he can if spamming vault all the time). also da is kinda better, since thief has 11k base hp so he cant deal constant dmg and is forced to burst and run.acro is good for mem builds without dmg, or core s/dSA is kitten

yea i play chrono in wvw, where i have much more freedom of choice and not touching pvp atm. yea certainly if ur thinking about pvp only, than in contest, there is something as meta, and other build might not be that usefull. hope ur aware what contest is, and what dictates of rules out there

but yeah, plz cry further about how badly designed is mesmer, and why it needs more love than other classes, hftlrd: domi : you always take it for any GS build always picking 1-1-3(depends on your choice solely,most likely PB). First two a must have, what a big choice !1111Dueling a traitline taken only for two grandmaster traits. Auto decoy is trash that self interrupt the user, a must have if you want to use pistol and a must have for every mesmer build that is not a bunker.Illusions - nc,dead traitline, thank you anet for rework!Chaos the only traitline you can pick something "different" but most likely its always the same manipulation trait,staff trait and the last one is probably BD (some play CI which is rare). A must have for cmirage. (O, PU is taken by core mesmers who dont wanna buy expansions)Inspiration is taken for exactly three same traits regardless (3-2-3). Mostly in bunker type of builds. Will you take rev trait or mantra over cleanse? You must be insane.So where is the choice? A few grandmaster traits ?Heck, have you even seen the other DEAD traits?Dont need an attention ? No ? Dont care?
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@Solori.6025 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.IMO

We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

I have to disagree with this as well..Mesmer has the illusion of choice.Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

Rev, thief, engi, Necro. Among these classes, Mesmer has the biggest choice of usefull traits.Lot of Mesmer traits may have balance issues, but a lot of them can change the way u play. While other classes has traits that just give u x or y, give passive something, moar dmg

Can you plz name what trait choices you are talking about?

domi, for double phantasm, boonstriping, stun, quickness, more dmg on shatter, or dmg on interruptsdueling for dmg mainly, but also for decoy and few kitten master traitsinspiration, for condi cleanse, healing from mantras, res trait, and lot of distortion ( yea i play it on power build)not sure about illu, i find it kinda useless outside of pvechaos, for shiton of boons, superspeed, stealth,chaos armor and protection

now look at thief which traits i know the most

ur always forced to take trickery cuz of how useless ur steal is without it, and for prepardnessnow u can take cs or DA, 2 traitlines that gives dmg. cs brings more constant dmg, but DA boost ur burst. if thief doesnt take any of these traitlines, he doesnt deal any dmg (he can if spamming vault all the time). also da is kinda better, since thief has 11k base hp so he cant deal constant dmg and is forced to burst and run.acro is good for mem builds without dmg, or core s/dSA is kitten

yea i play chrono in wvw, where i have much more freedom of choice and not touching pvp atm. yea certainly if ur thinking about pvp only, than in contest, there is something as meta, and other build might not be that usefull. hope ur aware what contest is, and what dictates of rules out there

Most of the time when people talk about balance they are talking about Spvp. Mainly because of the fact it is much more balanced than the inflated monster that is WvW. ( an example would be perma stealth DE in WvW vs Perma stealth DE in Spvp. Their is a reason no one plays DE in spvp let alone perma stealth)but since that is also a gamemode I listed lets take into account some of the useful trait choices for that as well.Also you think SA is kitten, yet every other perma stealth DE I see in WvW runs it, then MBS for 10k+.....

With that being said, Again, most of the trait choices simply do not work.Dom? You have 1 trait worth taking in adept. 2 traits worth taking in master. 2 traits worth taking in GM - 5 solid choices ( and one of them isn't the GS trait.)Dueling? You have 2 traits worth taking in Adept and the second one entirely depends on the type of build you are running, and one solid GM- 3 solid choicesInspiration? (Sure if you are running some tanky chrono, otherwise you lose A LOT of damage )how many traits are actually good in this line? 4-5?Chaos from what I count is the only traitline with decent choice of 6 of 9Illusions has maybe 3-4 useful traits.

For thief?DA has a good solid choice of 7 traits to choose from.CS-5 ( or 6 if you go perma fury pew pew)SA- 3-4( GM's in this traitline are trash)Acro has a solid 5 traitsTrickery is a nice solid 7.

And this is just the Core.

We arent talking about the amount of BUILDS.We are talking about the amount of USEFUL traits.For exampleLets say Mesmer has 3 builds- and in each build it can only take from each traitline 2-3 traitsVs Thief which can have 2 builds- yet it's traitlines offer the choice of 6-7 traits.

You would say the theif has it worse. It only has 2 builds.But the point isn't the amount of builds.The thief has more choice in how it wants those builds to play.

I would love to see what traits you think are good in the core lines for mes and which ones you don't think are good for theif. This would help both parties.Please try to remember.We aren't talking about the number of builds. But the number of traits that are useful.
And try to be more civil, no need for un-pleasantries

Edit: and If we were to go by meta battle ( something people were really quick to bring up when mes was doing OK) thief in WvW has more builds in the Great section and more builds rated higher in Spvp vs that of mesmer.
Links above for meta battle if you want to verify that yourself.Thief has more viable, higher rated builds (builds listed in the great section with a rating ), than mes does.

No by taking inspi, u lose dmg, but it doesn't mean u don't have enough of it to be viable roamerI'm talking about traits that change ur playstyle, not those that buff ur dmg or survivability in a passive mannerU take builds from metabattle, which tells enough.Also u compare perma stealth de from wvw and pvp in terms of BALANCE which shows even further lacks of understanding of the problem.Yea once again hf, as speaking with few ex mirage mains is not gonna bring any agreement.

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@Safandula.8723 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.IMO

We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

I have to disagree with this as well..Mesmer has the illusion of choice.Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

Rev, thief, engi, Necro. Among these classes, Mesmer has the biggest choice of usefull traits.Lot of Mesmer traits may have balance issues, but a lot of them can change the way u play. While other classes has traits that just give u x or y, give passive something, moar dmg

Can you plz name what trait choices you are talking about?

domi, for double phantasm, boonstriping, stun, quickness, more dmg on shatter, or dmg on interruptsdueling for dmg mainly, but also for decoy and few kitten master traitsinspiration, for condi cleanse, healing from mantras, res trait, and lot of distortion ( yea i play it on power build)not sure about illu, i find it kinda useless outside of pvechaos, for shiton of boons, superspeed, stealth,chaos armor and protection

now look at thief which traits i know the most

ur always forced to take trickery cuz of how useless ur steal is without it, and for prepardnessnow u can take cs or DA, 2 traitlines that gives dmg. cs brings more constant dmg, but DA boost ur burst. if thief doesnt take any of these traitlines, he doesnt deal any dmg (he can if spamming vault all the time). also da is kinda better, since thief has 11k base hp so he cant deal constant dmg and is forced to burst and run.acro is good for mem builds without dmg, or core s/dSA is kitten

yea i play chrono in wvw, where i have much more freedom of choice and not touching pvp atm. yea certainly if ur thinking about pvp only, than in contest, there is something as meta, and other build might not be that usefull. hope ur aware what contest is, and what dictates of rules out there

Most of the time when people talk about balance they are talking about Spvp. Mainly because of the fact it is much more balanced than the inflated monster that is WvW. ( an example would be perma stealth DE in WvW vs Perma stealth DE in Spvp. Their is a reason no one plays DE in spvp let alone perma stealth)but since that is also a gamemode I listed lets take into account some of the useful trait choices for that as well.Also you think SA is kitten, yet every other perma stealth DE I see in WvW runs it, then MBS for 10k+.....

With that being said, Again, most of the trait choices simply do not work.Dom? You have 1 trait worth taking in adept. 2 traits worth taking in master. 2 traits worth taking in GM - 5 solid choices ( and one of them isn't the GS trait.)Dueling? You have 2 traits worth taking in Adept and the second one entirely depends on the type of build you are running, and one solid GM- 3 solid choicesInspiration? (Sure if you are running some tanky chrono, otherwise you lose A LOT of damage )how many traits are actually good in this line? 4-5?Chaos from what I count is the only traitline with decent choice of 6 of 9Illusions has maybe 3-4 useful traits.

For thief?DA has a good solid choice of 7 traits to choose from.CS-5 ( or 6 if you go perma fury pew pew)SA- 3-4( GM's in this traitline are trash)Acro has a solid 5 traitsTrickery is a nice solid 7.

And this is just the Core.

We arent talking about the amount of BUILDS.We are talking about the amount of USEFUL traits.For exampleLets say Mesmer has 3 builds- and in each build it can only take from each traitline 2-3 traitsVs Thief which can have 2 builds- yet it's traitlines offer the choice of 6-7 traits.

You would say the theif has it worse. It only has 2 builds.But the point isn't the amount of builds.The thief has more choice in how it wants those builds to play.

I would love to see what traits you think are good in the core lines for mes and which ones you don't think are good for theif. This would help both parties.Please try to remember.We aren't talking about the number of builds. But the number of traits that are useful.
And try to be more civil, no need for un-pleasantries

Edit: and If we were to go by meta battle ( something people were really quick to bring up when mes was doing OK) thief in WvW has more builds in the Great section and more builds rated higher in Spvp vs that of mesmer.
Links above for meta battle if you want to verify that yourself.Thief has more viable, higher rated builds (builds listed in the great section with a rating ), than mes does.

No by taking inspi, u lose dmg, but it doesn't mean u don't have enough of it to be viable roamerI'm talking about traits that change ur playstyle, not those that buff ur dmg or survivability in a passive mannerU take builds from metabattle, which tells enough.Also u compare perma stealth de from wvw and pvp in terms of BALANCE which shows even further lacks of understanding of the problem.Yea once again hf, as speaking with few ex mirage mains is not gonna bring any agreement.

Yup lost cause indeed. As you ignored the majority of the post to refute nothing of substance. Make random claims about game knowledge and then display none at all.Did you even comprehend the beginning of the post? No need to answer ,your reply tells everyone everything they need to know.( you didn't)Let the people that actually know the state of the class at large when compared to the rest of the game have a logical and intelligent discussion, and see your way back to the what ever troll hole you climbed out of.Though im pretty sure you'll still be here. Waving you bias around as if you have a clue.Hf

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Variety in choice of mesmer traits might seem decent, but because there aren't many cases where you find a powercreeped trait. Most of the time it's a decision between mediocre traits or traits you don't take advantage (weapons, utilities you don't use...).

Another point not discussed so far is the quality of minor traits, rubbish in mesmer.Dom: 3 traits to only apply vulnerability on interrupt and have mediocre incremental damage based on them.Duel: One decent, one of the lowest vigor uptime and a mediocre and redundant fury trait considering the easy access to this boon.Chaos: Another incremental traits we have to suffer, and 2 redundant traits considering its a boon based spec.Insp: 2 good traits and a mediocre one.Ill: Again another incremental trait, one of the worst F-skill related traits and a mediocre trait.Meanwhile, others get flat damage buffs and flat damage reductions on top of significant stat buffs, flat endurance recovery, traits on dodge...

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Sigh be prepared for long post.

I will try to explain things as power mirage in wvw (not saying i am the best but ain't bad) and some of the things you will not change my mind at even if everyone see you as the best mesmer because they are gonna be facts.

First let me say that we do not have choices in what to pick in many things due to many issues.

Stats, I play fully berserk, specially after the "we want mirage to excel in longer fights" and well the reflect that we lost recently, basically everything that might keep you longer in combat or not make you blow your cds just to avoid some thing ( more chance of getting one shotted), but it is not like it is going to be so much better with other stats, don't get me wrong, i tried many runes and stats, things like marauder and durability rune etc that will definitely help you to not get one shotted ( we can put exceptions for the lovely classes that can overkill in less than a second), but then again, we will run out of cooldowns and be sitting ducks (which is why some of the traitlines doesn't work as power and is the reason to play full berserk). And I don't want anyone say LOS crap, because if others also use the same strategy for power mesmer we are screwed, we can't use our mobility cds because we need them to survive and we can't hit the target in a threatening way.

Runes, I use rune of strength, scholar doesn't work because of retaliation.Sigils energy cleanse, energy cleanse!, i sometimes toy around with interrupts sigils in sword, and sometimes I do put sigil of absorption ( sometimes because I know that I need to remove boons from specific target)

Traits as power mirage, Inspiration traitline is trash for mirage, it will not help you at anything, you take it you lose MUCH damage and you will run out of cooldowns while your enemies have their needed cooldowns. and there are classes like Holo, soulbeast,druid, warrior, and well the evade thief and even DE, you instantly become "not a threat to them" and end up losing, no need to mention firebrands or when firebrands are present, ooh and in before someone eats me eles as well, some of the eles we couldn't kill even before the nerfs, some of us who use mixed stats might have been able to, but otherwise not possible.

Chaos traitline is okay, but then again we lose much damage, I do not like the recent change to it, as i don't think too much stealth is good ( I know that some classes have more stealth which needs to be looked at), as power mirage, I tried playing chaos and it goes okay, but at that time when i played it when we used to have reflect, but we would still face the same issue as if we used inspiration.

Domination is kinda needed as power mirage, I have played without it and did good, but it is still the best for us to deal damage and to strip boons which is needed, I myself don't take the stun trait and i take the illusions damage trait, the next one we don't really have options but to take the boon removal on shatter, Grandmaster traits we have choices, but only the gs one and the interrupt one are worthy. (shatter one is not worth because the damage from other 2 traits will cover the damage kinda and give you other benefits)

Dueling, first pick is useless, second pick is useless (have to pick sword one), and well grandmaster its not like I have any other choice, we need to generate clones for most of our shatters, otherwise we don't have enough illusions for anything, and this one is tied with other traits like Infinite Horizon, so not worth picking that damage one.

Mirage, MUST PICK ELUSIVE MIND .. Just kidding, must pick Infinite Horizon, and the one that you generate clone when you use mirage skill if you have a clone (even if your only skill is jaunt) because the rest are useless, one is condi based and the other is well ... what are we gonna do with that regen? or that condi duration reduction, I don't think we need to explain about Dune Cloak or Elusive mind, even though I still see some people who mention Elusive Mind, and Dune Cloak ONCE was mentioned somewhere here on mesmer's forums =p

Skills,Heal, we have 2 heals, you can play with False Oasis or Signet of the ether, but well signet of the ether is more attractive, heal from false oasis and the crystal is nice and have uses, but well we need to kill to stay alive.

Blink, must pick no need for explanations.

Jaunt we have no options but to use it as power mirage.

Rest of skills you can try to have different picks depending on your play style.

So basically some of our choices got reduced because we lost the things that keeps us able to stay longer in combat such as picking up something different than berserk stats, or trying to pick some defensive traitline, and seems like they like to kill mesmers traits, wasn't the 3 second of exhaust enough to make people go away from Elusive mind? Condi clear? once sigils are nerfed in wvw we are doomed.

Don't forget the deadly retaliation.

Sorry for long post, and I don't want to go over it if i missed something or not I am not sure.

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Dead/useless/negligible impact, fair number of things to list...

Top of this has to be Elusive Mind. Mind bogglingly stupid trait at this time. Words cannot describe how stupid it is.

Second prize Evasive Mirror - simply because of the utterly nonsensical manner in which it was nerfed, still passive, still pseudo-rng with even more revolving around luck than predictable effect...

Then follows a long list of mediocrity (eg mirage mantle, illusionary reversion, chaos armour, etc...).

Just play casually, I doubt gw2 will ever be in a state where there is a good amount of variety (effective, not joke builds), and reasonable skill within that, such that players have choice to find unique niche and all builds at least require a higher skill level than current.

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I really hate when peeps say's they have hope for mesmers. I mean every time they did something about the weak state of mesmers no matter what build. Well every time they took it away. Every skill's & some of the Elit that was unique to mesmers was given away to other classes. (Confusion-Moa morph). So i'm part of does who is tired of hoping. Even when they do good cuz i know it not for long before they nerf hammer it!

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@Solori.6025 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.IMO

We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

I have to disagree with this as well..Mesmer has the illusion of choice.Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

Rev, thief, engi, Necro. Among these classes, Mesmer has the biggest choice of usefull traits.Lot of Mesmer traits may have balance issues, but a lot of them can change the way u play. While other classes has traits that just give u x or y, give passive something, moar dmg

Can you plz name what trait choices you are talking about?

domi, for double phantasm, boonstriping, stun, quickness, more dmg on shatter, or dmg on interruptsdueling for dmg mainly, but also for decoy and few kitten master traitsinspiration, for condi cleanse, healing from mantras, res trait, and lot of distortion ( yea i play it on power build)not sure about illu, i find it kinda useless outside of pvechaos, for shiton of boons, superspeed, stealth,chaos armor and protection

now look at thief which traits i know the most

ur always forced to take trickery cuz of how useless ur steal is without it, and for prepardnessnow u can take cs or DA, 2 traitlines that gives dmg. cs brings more constant dmg, but DA boost ur burst. if thief doesnt take any of these traitlines, he doesnt deal any dmg (he can if spamming vault all the time). also da is kinda better, since thief has 11k base hp so he cant deal constant dmg and is forced to burst and run.acro is good for mem builds without dmg, or core s/dSA is kitten

yea i play chrono in wvw, where i have much more freedom of choice and not touching pvp atm. yea certainly if ur thinking about pvp only, than in contest, there is something as meta, and other build might not be that usefull. hope ur aware what contest is, and what dictates of rules out there

Most of the time when people talk about balance they are talking about Spvp. Mainly because of the fact it is much more balanced than the inflated monster that is WvW. ( an example would be perma stealth DE in WvW vs Perma stealth DE in Spvp. Their is a reason no one plays DE in spvp let alone perma stealth)but since that is also a gamemode I listed lets take into account some of the useful trait choices for that as well.Also you think SA is kitten, yet every other perma stealth DE I see in WvW runs it, then MBS for 10k+.....

With that being said, Again, most of the trait choices simply do not work.Dom? You have 1 trait worth taking in adept. 2 traits worth taking in master. 2 traits worth taking in GM - 5 solid choices ( and one of them isn't the GS trait.)Dueling? You have 2 traits worth taking in Adept and the second one entirely depends on the type of build you are running, and one solid GM- 3 solid choicesInspiration? (Sure if you are running some tanky chrono, otherwise you lose A LOT of damage )how many traits are actually good in this line? 4-5?Chaos from what I count is the only traitline with decent choice of 6 of 9Illusions has maybe 3-4 useful traits.

For thief?DA has a good solid choice of 7 traits to choose from.CS-5 ( or 6 if you go perma fury pew pew)SA- 3-4( GM's in this traitline are trash)Acro has a solid 5 traitsTrickery is a nice solid 7.

And this is just the Core.

We arent talking about the amount of BUILDS.We are talking about the amount of USEFUL traits.For exampleLets say Mesmer has 3 builds- and in each build it can only take from each traitline 2-3 traitsVs Thief which can have 2 builds- yet it's traitlines offer the choice of 6-7 traits.

You would say the theif has it worse. It only has 2 builds.But the point isn't the amount of builds.The thief has more choice in how it wants those builds to play.

I would love to see what traits you think are good in the core lines for mes and which ones you don't think are good for theif. This would help both parties.Please try to remember.We aren't talking about the number of builds. But the number of traits that are useful.
And try to be more civil, no need for un-pleasantries

Edit: and If we were to go by meta battle ( something people were really quick to bring up when mes was doing OK) thief in WvW has more builds in the Great section and more builds rated higher in Spvp vs that of mesmer.
Links above for meta battle if you want to verify that yourself.Thief has more viable, higher rated builds (builds listed in the great section with a rating ), than mes does.

No by taking inspi, u lose dmg, but it doesn't mean u don't have enough of it to be viable roamerI'm talking about traits that change ur playstyle, not those that buff ur dmg or survivability in a passive mannerU take builds from metabattle, which tells enough.Also u compare perma stealth de from wvw and pvp in terms of BALANCE which shows even further lacks of understanding of the problem.Yea once again hf, as speaking with few ex mirage mains is not gonna bring any agreement.

Yup lost cause indeed. As you ignored the majority of the post to refute nothing of substance. Make random claims about game knowledge and then display none at all.Did you even comprehend the beginning of the post? No need to answer ,your reply tells everyone everything they need to know.( you didn't)Let the people that actually know the state of the class at large when compared to the rest of the game have a logical and intelligent discussion, and see your way back to the what ever troll hole you climbed out of.Though im pretty sure you'll still be here. Waving you bias around as if you have a clue.Hf

Pity. You were so civil to him too.

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@Heartpains.7312 said:Traits as power mirage, Inspiration traitline is trash for mirage, it will not help you at anything, you take it you lose MUCH damage and you will run out of cooldowns while your enemies have their needed cooldowns.

imo thats false, power mes even in marauder armor has enough dmg to 1 shot with inspi traitline, while condi cleans + distorts from signets are massive

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@Safandula.8723 said:

@Heartpains.7312 said:Traits as power mirage, Inspiration traitline is trash for mirage, it will not help you at anything, you take it you lose MUCH damage and you will run out of cooldowns while your enemies have their needed cooldowns.

imo thats false, power mes even in marauder armor has enough dmg to 1 shot with inspi traitline, while condi cleans + distorts from signets are massive

No it does not. You can barely 1 shot in berserker with domination/dueling/chrono on a CCed target with vulnerability, supporting sigils and no protection, in sPvP. WvW, you might be right.

And I am in favor of further reducing damage per shatter, cuz having a build that tries to CC and one shot a target is terrible design. But what are the other options for power Mesmer? There are none. And the last time I remember power Mesmer was useable in anything but trying to one shot shatter was pre HoT, and right after phantasm remake (which was pretty broken and was quickly nerfed to the ground).

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@Safandula.8723 said:

imo thats false, power mes even in marauder armor has enough dmg to 1 shot with inspi traitline, while condi cleans + distorts from signets are massive

You are honestly very wrong about it, and i am curious which other traitline are you gonna pick as power mirage with inspiration to cripple yourself more. Becuase once you pick inspiration you already crippled yourself enough to a matter where whatever you pick won't matter much.

But really what other traitline you will pick with it?

I know my post was long but it is worth reading.

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@Heartpains.7312 said:

imo thats false, power mes even in marauder armor has enough dmg to 1 shot with inspi traitline, while condi cleans + distorts from signets are massive

You are honestly very wrong about it, and i am curious which other traitline are you gonna pick as power mirage with inspiration to cripple yourself more. Becuase once you pick inspiration you already crippled yourself enough to a matter where whatever you pick won't matter much.

But really what other traitline you will pick with it?

I know my post was long but it is worth reading.

iv read, dueling for some fury and bit more dmg or domi that favors 1 shoting, choose what u like. yea u can easilly 1 shot ppl with inspi, around 50% of builds that are running in wvw

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@Safandula.8723 said:iv read, dueling for some fury and bit more dmg or domi that favors 1 shoting, choose what u like. yea u can easilly 1 shot ppl with inspi, around 50% of builds that are running in wvw

You're talking about the rarely used old WvW Power Chronomancer roaming build. It really run Domination Inspiration Chronomancer. Meanwhile some weird hybrid Chrono was commonly used in sPvP.

That's like way back in January or February 2016.

Nowadays, you can not oneshot anybody when you take inspiration. You need to be nearly perfect to oneshot even with Domination + Dueling with Scholar + Berserker.

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  • 3 weeks later...

As soon as they started nerfing core traits into trash that you wouldn't pick I knew for sure they have no clue what they are doing. There are whole trait tiers that are pointless. I've seen Mes nerfed into the ground, but other already op classes recieve buffs, and why because there are a group of plsyers who simply dont like the base Mes class mechanics of clones. Even now people are still complaining about Mes despite it being totally hollowed out.

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now look at thief which traits i know the most

ur always forced to take trickery cuz of how useless ur steal is without it, and for preparedness

Lets not pretend that Mesmer isn't forced to run dueling in the same way thief is forced to run Trickery.

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