Dead/killed traits and skills — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Dead/killed traits and skills

Heartpains.7312Heartpains.7312 Member ✭✭✭

So how long is gonna take them to start on reworking the dead traits, or the traits that they have killed? same goes for skills

We just keep getting bigger and bigger lists of those traits and skills.

Comments

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭
    edited May 27, 2019

    Play as chrno sup from hot relize. And don't feel any sadness about changes. I like it.
    If play suo spam 2 well from cs and be happy.
    if play heal chrno spam 3 wells from cs and be happy.

  • Sodeni.6041Sodeni.6041 Member ✭✭✭

    I hope they completely rework dune cloak some day. It’s really useless for a grandmaster and infinite horizon is better in every scenario.

    Dune cloak was a choice when phantasms were permanent and you would shatter them instead of clones so you could put out 3 pistol illusions and spam dune cloak but ever since the phantasm rework that’s no longer possible.

  • Heartpains.7312Heartpains.7312 Member ✭✭✭

    Thanks praqtos, I sure didn't go through the troubles of making the list, but just wondering how long til they really start reworking them, by the time they finish the dead list from the above they would kill more probably. =p

  • Heartpains.7312Heartpains.7312 Member ✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    Dueling traitline "enchance evades" but does nothing for it.
    Powerblock is literally not worth taking anymore. GS is still stuck in 2k12.
    Mesmer community is just dead tbh. No one cares about anything anymore. Unjustified nerfs? Its fine. (C)

    I think mostly mesmers are too tired to care.

    We will see next patch, it is important patch for us.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    Dueling traitline "enchance evades" but does nothing for it.
    Powerblock is literally not worth taking anymore. GS is still stuck in 2k12.
    Mesmer community is just dead tbh. No one cares about anything anymore. Unjustified nerfs? Its fine. (C)

    I think mostly mesmers are too tired to care.

    We will see next patch, it is important patch for us.

    Certain twitch monkey probably still crying about mesmer, should we expect more nerfs?:)

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Can only speak for myself tired of giving a kitten.
    We even made a gigantic list of stuff that needs a buff they took one suggestion while nerfing two traits, buff one trait nerf two.
    The only thing I do nowadays is a key run, meaning 15min of playtime each week.

    This basically^
    I am going to be putting this game back in maintenance mode and just log in for dailies. As long as this dev team remains completely incompetent nothing is going to get better.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Mesmer community is just dead tbh. No one cares about anything anymore.

    AMEN!

  • Heartpains.7312Heartpains.7312 Member ✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    I am going to be putting this game back in maintenance mode and just log in for dailies. As long as this dev team remains completely incompetent nothing is going to get better.

    Have hope for next patch =p
    I think it will be this way
    WE reduced sic em from 40% to 30% ;)
    Which won't do much difference lol

  • Vague Memory.2817Vague Memory.2817 Member ✭✭✭

    Don't expect too much. The blinding dissipation trait change from Blind shatter to 1 blind from CoF is just embarrassing for its laziness and lack of care. They don't want to nerf Mirage too much because they still want people to buy PoF, so they nerf core Mes traits instead which nothing short of kitten.

  • This... is a question that nearly every profession is asking. If I bothered to care, I could come up with a list of redundant and useless traits on every class.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    True.
    Except mesmer's entire traitlines are trash:
    Duel - 2 good grandmasters, rest is trash.
    Illusion - 1 good adept, rest is trash.
    Mirage - 1 good grandmaster, rest is trash.

    Pretty much. You go for 1-2 good traits in the entire traitline xD

  • Heartpains.7312Heartpains.7312 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    True.
    Except mesmer's entire traitlines are trash:
    Duel - 2 good grandmasters, rest is trash.
    Illusion - 1 good adept, rest is trash.
    Mirage - 1 good grandmaster, rest is trash.

    I always thought that we are masters of manipulation, but it seems we became masters of trash =p

    Well, I just hope for some rework to some of these dead and killed traits and skills so we might have choices, not expecting things on this patch but maybe in the future xD

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.
    IMO

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.
    IMO

    We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

    Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.
    IMO

    We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

    Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

    I have to disagree with this as well..
    Mesmer has the illusion of choice.
    Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

    What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2019

    I did a similar thread for guardian a while back. This is not a Mesmer exclusive problem unfortunately. However the dev team is very busy you guys know. The paper planes are not going to make themselves 😉

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.
    IMO

    We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

    Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

    I have to disagree with this as well..
    Mesmer has the illusion of choice.
    Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

    What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

    What context are we talking? Mesmer right now is the worst class in sPvP. I do not WvW, but I know Mesmer is a good roamer, both power and condi. That is more than most classes. Group PvE, Mesmer has viable power, condi and support builds. They are not the best, but they perform well.

    Open world PvE, I strongly disagree. Mesmer is currently the best class in open world PvE, with loads of viable setups.

    And honestly, all classes have limited useful traits and skills. The illusion of choice applies to all classes. Mesmer in PvE has it better than most.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.
    IMO

    We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

    Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

    I have to disagree with this as well..
    Mesmer has the illusion of choice.
    Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

    What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

    Rev, thief, engi, Necro. Among these classes, Mesmer has the biggest choice of usefull traits.
    Lot of Mesmer traits may have balance issues, but a lot of them can change the way u play. While other classes has traits that just give u x or y, give passive something, moar dmg

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.
    IMO

    We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

    Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

    I have to disagree with this as well..
    Mesmer has the illusion of choice.
    Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

    What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

    Rev, thief, engi, Necro. Among these classes, Mesmer has the biggest choice of usefull traits.
    Lot of Mesmer traits may have balance issues, but a lot of them can change the way u play. While other classes has traits that just give u x or y, give passive something, moar dmg

    Can you plz name what trait choices you are talking about?

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:
    I did a similar thread for guardian a while back. This is not a Mesmer exclusive problem unfortunately. However the dev team is very busy you guys know. The paper planes are not going to make themselves 😉

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.
    IMO

    We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

    Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

    I have to disagree with this as well..
    Mesmer has the illusion of choice.
    Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

    What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

    What context are we talking? Mesmer right now is the worst class in sPvP. I do not WvW, but I know Mesmer is a good roamer, both power and condi. That is more than most classes. Group PvE, Mesmer has viable power, condi and support builds. They are not the best, but they perform well.

    Open world PvE, I strongly disagree. Mesmer is currently the best class in open world PvE, with loads of viable setups.

    And honestly, all classes have limited useful traits and skills. The illusion of choice applies to all classes. Mesmer in PvE has it better than most.

    Spvp..or WvW . . I actually don't do much open world PvE.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:
    I did a similar thread for guardian a while back. This is not a Mesmer exclusive problem unfortunately. However the dev team is very busy you guys know. The paper planes are not going to make themselves 😉

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.
    IMO

    We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

    Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

    I have to disagree with this as well..
    Mesmer has the illusion of choice.
    Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

    What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

    What context are we talking? Mesmer right now is the worst class in sPvP. I do not WvW, but I know Mesmer is a good roamer, both power and condi. That is more than most classes. Group PvE, Mesmer has viable power, condi and support builds. They are not the best, but they perform well.

    Open world PvE, I strongly disagree. Mesmer is currently the best class in open world PvE, with loads of viable setups.

    And honestly, all classes have limited useful traits and skills. The illusion of choice applies to all classes. Mesmer in PvE has it better than most.

    This. I was thinking to write something similar to this. In pve u have different builds. In pvp... ? God kitten,they still crying about it xD
    And safandula dont even play mesmer further than PVE,so I guess this helicopter is talking only about pve

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 6, 2019

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.
    IMO

    We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

    Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

    I have to disagree with this as well..
    Mesmer has the illusion of choice.
    Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

    What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

    Rev, thief, engi, Necro. Among these classes, Mesmer has the biggest choice of usefull traits.
    Lot of Mesmer traits may have balance issues, but a lot of them can change the way u play. While other classes has traits that just give u x or y, give passive something, moar dmg

    Can you plz name what trait choices you are talking about?

    domi, for double phantasm, boonstriping, stun, quickness, more dmg on shatter, or dmg on interrupts
    dueling for dmg mainly, but also for decoy and few kitten master traits
    inspiration, for condi cleanse, healing from mantras, res trait, and lot of distortion ( yea i play it on power build)
    not sure about illu, i find it kinda useless outside of pve
    chaos, for shiton of boons, superspeed, stealth,chaos armor and protection

    now look at thief which traits i know the most

    ur always forced to take trickery cuz of how useless ur steal is without it, and for prepardness
    now u can take cs or DA, 2 traitlines that gives dmg. cs brings more constant dmg, but DA boost ur burst. if thief doesnt take any of these traitlines, he doesnt deal any dmg (he can if spamming vault all the time). also da is kinda better, since thief has 11k base hp so he cant deal constant dmg and is forced to burst and run.
    acro is good for mem builds without dmg, or core s/d
    SA is kitten

    yea i play chrono in wvw, where i have much more freedom of choice and not touching pvp atm. yea certainly if ur thinking about pvp only, than in contest, there is something as meta, and other build might not be that usefull. hope ur aware what contest is, and what dictates of rules out there

    but yeah, plz cry further about how badly designed is mesmer, and why it needs more love than other classes, hf

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 6, 2019

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.
    IMO

    We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

    Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

    I have to disagree with this as well..
    Mesmer has the illusion of choice.
    Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

    What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

    Rev, thief, engi, Necro. Among these classes, Mesmer has the biggest choice of usefull traits.
    Lot of Mesmer traits may have balance issues, but a lot of them can change the way u play. While other classes has traits that just give u x or y, give passive something, moar dmg

    Can you plz name what trait choices you are talking about?

    domi, for double phantasm, boonstriping, stun, quickness, more dmg on shatter, or dmg on interrupts
    dueling for dmg mainly, but also for decoy and few kitten master traits
    inspiration, for condi cleanse, healing from mantras, res trait, and lot of distortion ( yea i play it on power build)
    not sure about illu, i find it kinda useless outside of pve
    chaos, for shiton of boons, superspeed, stealth,chaos armor and protection

    now look at thief which traits i know the most

    ur always forced to take trickery cuz of how useless ur steal is without it, and for prepardness
    now u can take cs or DA, 2 traitlines that gives dmg. cs brings more constant dmg, but DA boost ur burst. if thief doesnt take any of these traitlines, he doesnt deal any dmg (he can if spamming vault all the time). also da is kinda better, since thief has 11k base hp so he cant deal constant dmg and is forced to burst and run.
    acro is good for mem builds without dmg, or core s/d
    SA is kitten

    yea i play chrono in wvw, where i have much more freedom of choice and not touching pvp atm. yea certainly if ur thinking about pvp only, than in contest, there is something as meta, and other build might not be that usefull. hope ur aware what contest is, and what dictates of rules out there

    but yeah, plz cry further about how badly designed is mesmer, and why it needs more love than other classes, hf

    tlrd: domi : you always take it for any GS build always picking 1-1-3(depends on your choice solely,most likely PB). First two a must have, what a big choice !1111
    Dueling a traitline taken only for two grandmaster traits. Auto decoy is trash that self interrupt the user, a must have if you want to use pistol and a must have for every mesmer build that is not a bunker.
    Illusions - nc,dead traitline, thank you anet for rework!
    Chaos the only traitline you can pick something "different" but most likely its always the same manipulation trait,staff trait and the last one is probably BD (some play CI which is rare). A must have for cmirage. (O, PU is taken by core mesmers who dont wanna buy expansions)
    Inspiration is taken for exactly three same traits regardless (3-2-3). Mostly in bunker type of builds. Will you take rev trait or mantra over cleanse? You must be insane.
    So where is the choice? A few grandmaster traits ?
    Heck, have you even seen the other DEAD traits?Dont need an attention ? No ? Dont care?

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 6, 2019

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.
    IMO

    We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

    Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

    I have to disagree with this as well..
    Mesmer has the illusion of choice.
    Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

    What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

    Rev, thief, engi, Necro. Among these classes, Mesmer has the biggest choice of usefull traits.
    Lot of Mesmer traits may have balance issues, but a lot of them can change the way u play. While other classes has traits that just give u x or y, give passive something, moar dmg

    Can you plz name what trait choices you are talking about?

    domi, for double phantasm, boonstriping, stun, quickness, more dmg on shatter, or dmg on interrupts
    dueling for dmg mainly, but also for decoy and few kitten master traits
    inspiration, for condi cleanse, healing from mantras, res trait, and lot of distortion ( yea i play it on power build)
    not sure about illu, i find it kinda useless outside of pve
    chaos, for shiton of boons, superspeed, stealth,chaos armor and protection

    now look at thief which traits i know the most

    ur always forced to take trickery cuz of how useless ur steal is without it, and for prepardness
    now u can take cs or DA, 2 traitlines that gives dmg. cs brings more constant dmg, but DA boost ur burst. if thief doesnt take any of these traitlines, he doesnt deal any dmg (he can if spamming vault all the time). also da is kinda better, since thief has 11k base hp so he cant deal constant dmg and is forced to burst and run.
    acro is good for mem builds without dmg, or core s/d
    SA is kitten

    yea i play chrono in wvw, where i have much more freedom of choice and not touching pvp atm. yea certainly if ur thinking about pvp only, than in contest, there is something as meta, and other build might not be that usefull. hope ur aware what contest is, and what dictates of rules out there

    Most of the time when people talk about balance they are talking about Spvp. Mainly because of the fact it is much more balanced than the inflated monster that is WvW. ( an example would be perma stealth DE in WvW vs Perma stealth DE in Spvp. Their is a reason no one plays DE in spvp let alone perma stealth)but since that is also a gamemode I listed lets take into account some of the useful trait choices for that as well.
    Also you think SA is kitten, yet every other perma stealth DE I see in WvW runs it, then MBS for 10k+.....

    With that being said, Again, most of the trait choices simply do not work.
    Dom? You have 1 trait worth taking in adept. 2 traits worth taking in master. 2 traits worth taking in GM - 5 solid choices ( and one of them isn't the GS trait.)
    Dueling? You have 2 traits worth taking in Adept and the second one entirely depends on the type of build you are running, and one solid GM- 3 solid choices
    Inspiration? (Sure if you are running some tanky chrono, otherwise you lose A LOT of damage )how many traits are actually good in this line? 4-5?
    Chaos from what I count is the only traitline with decent choice of 6 of 9
    Illusions has maybe 3-4 useful traits.

    For thief?
    DA has a good solid choice of 7 traits to choose from.
    CS-5 ( or 6 if you go perma fury pew pew)
    SA- 3-4( GM's in this traitline are trash)
    Acro has a solid 5 traits
    Trickery is a nice solid 7.

    And this is just the Core.

    We arent talking about the amount of BUILDS.
    We are talking about the amount of USEFUL traits.
    For example
    Lets say Mesmer has 3 builds- and in each build it can only take from each traitline 2-3 traits
    Vs Thief which can have 2 builds- yet it's traitlines offer the choice of 6-7 traits.

    You would say the theif has it worse. It only has 2 builds.
    But the point isn't the amount of builds.
    The thief has more choice in how it wants those builds to play.

    I would love to see what traits you think are good in the core lines for mes and which ones you don't think are good for theif. This would help both parties.
    Please try to remember.
    We aren't talking about the number of builds. But the number of traits that are useful.
    And try to be more civil, no need for un-pleasantries

    Edit: and If we were to go by meta battle ( something people were really quick to bring up when mes was doing OK) thief in WvW has more builds in the Great section and more builds rated higher in Spvp vs that of mesmer.
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW
    Links above for meta battle if you want to verify that yourself.
    Thief has more viable, higher rated builds (builds listed in the great section with a rating ), than mes does.

    No by taking inspi, u lose dmg, but it doesn't mean u don't have enough of it to be viable roamer
    I'm talking about traits that change ur playstyle, not those that buff ur dmg or survivability in a passive manner
    U take builds from metabattle, which tells enough.
    Also u compare perma stealth de from wvw and pvp in terms of BALANCE which shows even further lacks of understanding of the problem.
    Yea once again hf, as speaking with few ex mirage mains is not gonna bring any agreement.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Dead/useless/negligible impact, fair number of things to list...

    Top of this has to be Elusive Mind. Mind bogglingly stupid trait at this time. Words cannot describe how stupid it is.

    Second prize Evasive Mirror - simply because of the utterly nonsensical manner in which it was nerfed, still passive, still pseudo-rng with even more revolving around luck than predictable effect...

    Then follows a long list of mediocrity (eg mirage mantle, illusionary reversion, chaos armour, etc...).

    Just play casually, I doubt gw2 will ever be in a state where there is a good amount of variety (effective, not joke builds), and reasonable skill within that, such that players have choice to find unique niche and all builds at least require a higher skill level than current.

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I really hate when peeps say's they have hope for mesmers. I mean every time they did something about the weak state of mesmers no matter what build. Well every time they took it away. Every skill's & some of the Elit that was unique to mesmers was given away to other classes. (Confusion-Moa morph). So i'm part of does who is tired of hoping. Even when they do good cuz i know it not for long before they nerf hammer it!

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • @Solori.6025 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Am I the only one who thinks, that Mesmer has the best real choice of choosing traits? I know all master dueling traits are kitten now, but overall this class has the most usefull traits in the game.
    IMO

    We don't really have choices, and we have many dead/killed traits and skills.

    Ofc, i just think, other classes have much more of dead skills and traits and would need rewamp more than mesmer

    I have to disagree with this as well..
    Mesmer has the illusion of choice.
    Where the traits sound good on paper. Then in practice they don't work.

    What other classes are you thinking of? I am curious.

    Rev, thief, engi, Necro. Among these classes, Mesmer has the biggest choice of usefull traits.
    Lot of Mesmer traits may have balance issues, but a lot of them can change the way u play. While other classes has traits that just give u x or y, give passive something, moar dmg

    Can you plz name what trait choices you are talking about?

    domi, for double phantasm, boonstriping, stun, quickness, more dmg on shatter, or dmg on interrupts
    dueling for dmg mainly, but also for decoy and few kitten master traits
    inspiration, for condi cleanse, healing from mantras, res trait, and lot of distortion ( yea i play it on power build)
    not sure about illu, i find it kinda useless outside of pve
    chaos, for shiton of boons, superspeed, stealth,chaos armor and protection

    now look at thief which traits i know the most

    ur always forced to take trickery cuz of how useless ur steal is without it, and for prepardness
    now u can take cs or DA, 2 traitlines that gives dmg. cs brings more constant dmg, but DA boost ur burst. if thief doesnt take any of these traitlines, he doesnt deal any dmg (he can if spamming vault all the time). also da is kinda better, since thief has 11k base hp so he cant deal constant dmg and is forced to burst and run.
    acro is good for mem builds without dmg, or core s/d
    SA is kitten

    yea i play chrono in wvw, where i have much more freedom of choice and not touching pvp atm. yea certainly if ur thinking about pvp only, than in contest, there is something as meta, and other build might not be that usefull. hope ur aware what contest is, and what dictates of rules out there

    Most of the time when people talk about balance they are talking about Spvp. Mainly because of the fact it is much more balanced than the inflated monster that is WvW. ( an example would be perma stealth DE in WvW vs Perma stealth DE in Spvp. Their is a reason no one plays DE in spvp let alone perma stealth)but since that is also a gamemode I listed lets take into account some of the useful trait choices for that as well.
    Also you think SA is kitten, yet every other perma stealth DE I see in WvW runs it, then MBS for 10k+.....

    With that being said, Again, most of the trait choices simply do not work.
    Dom? You have 1 trait worth taking in adept. 2 traits worth taking in master. 2 traits worth taking in GM - 5 solid choices ( and one of them isn't the GS trait.)
    Dueling? You have 2 traits worth taking in Adept and the second one entirely depends on the type of build you are running, and one solid GM- 3 solid choices
    Inspiration? (Sure if you are running some tanky chrono, otherwise you lose A LOT of damage )how many traits are actually good in this line? 4-5?
    Chaos from what I count is the only traitline with decent choice of 6 of 9
    Illusions has maybe 3-4 useful traits.

    For thief?
    DA has a good solid choice of 7 traits to choose from.
    CS-5 ( or 6 if you go perma fury pew pew)
    SA- 3-4( GM's in this traitline are trash)
    Acro has a solid 5 traits
    Trickery is a nice solid 7.

    And this is just the Core.

    We arent talking about the amount of BUILDS.
    We are talking about the amount of USEFUL traits.
    For example
    Lets say Mesmer has 3 builds- and in each build it can only take from each traitline 2-3 traits
    Vs Thief which can have 2 builds- yet it's traitlines offer the choice of 6-7 traits.

    You would say the theif has it worse. It only has 2 builds.
    But the point isn't the amount of builds.
    The thief has more choice in how it wants those builds to play.

    I would love to see what traits you think are good in the core lines for mes and which ones you don't think are good for theif. This would help both parties.
    Please try to remember.
    We aren't talking about the number of builds. But the number of traits that are useful.
    And try to be more civil, no need for un-pleasantries

    Edit: and If we were to go by meta battle ( something people were really quick to bring up when mes was doing OK) thief in WvW has more builds in the Great section and more builds rated higher in Spvp vs that of mesmer.
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW
    Links above for meta battle if you want to verify that yourself.
    Thief has more viable, higher rated builds (builds listed in the great section with a rating ), than mes does.

    No by taking inspi, u lose dmg, but it doesn't mean u don't have enough of it to be viable roamer
    I'm talking about traits that change ur playstyle, not those that buff ur dmg or survivability in a passive manner
    U take builds from metabattle, which tells enough.
    Also u compare perma stealth de from wvw and pvp in terms of BALANCE which shows even further lacks of understanding of the problem.
    Yea once again hf, as speaking with few ex mirage mains is not gonna bring any agreement.

    Yup lost cause indeed. As you ignored the majority of the post to refute nothing of substance. Make random claims about game knowledge and then display none at all.
    Did you even comprehend the beginning of the post? No need to answer ,your reply tells everyone everything they need to know.( you didn't)
    Let the people that actually know the state of the class at large when compared to the rest of the game have a logical and intelligent discussion, and see your way back to the what ever troll hole you climbed out of.
    Though im pretty sure you'll still be here. Waving you bias around as if you have a clue.
    Hf

    Pity. You were so civil to him too.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584

    I honestly tried to be, but owell.
    He can kick cans and go some where else with the hostilities.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Heartpains.7312 said:
    Traits as power mirage, Inspiration traitline is trash for mirage, it will not help you at anything, you take it you lose MUCH damage and you will run out of cooldowns while your enemies have their needed cooldowns.

    imo thats false, power mes even in marauder armor has enough dmg to 1 shot with inspi traitline, while condi cleans + distorts from signets are massive

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    imo thats false, power mes even in marauder armor has enough dmg to 1 shot with inspi traitline, while condi cleans + distorts from signets are massive

    You are honestly very wrong about it, and i am curious which other traitline are you gonna pick as power mirage with inspiration to cripple yourself more. Becuase once you pick inspiration you already crippled yourself enough to a matter where whatever you pick won't matter much.

    But really what other traitline you will pick with it?

    I know my post was long but it is worth reading.

    iv read, dueling for some fury and bit more dmg or domi that favors 1 shoting, choose what u like. yea u can easilly 1 shot ppl with inspi, around 50% of builds that are running in wvw

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