Soulbeast Needs Some Genuine Nerf Bat Love in the Next Balance Update

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

THE ULTIMATE UNVEILING

1. Every other game ever, that had ranged attacks in it, had ranged attacks that were dangerous. This is not unusual. What is unusual is that Guild Wars 2 experienced a complete disappearance of ranged attack play for too many years.
2. GW2 in the beginning, had some dangerous ranged attacks from old school LB/GS Power Rangers, and even some Condi Shortbow. But it was nerfed and didn't last for very long. During the end of the core meta, Rangers disappeared almost entirely and I do mean entirely. During the end of core meta, there were no dangerous ranged attacks coming from any even semi-viable builds at all. The game had become close-range & mid-range bruisers, such as Cele-Rifle Engis, Cele D/D Eles, Burn Guards, ect ect.
3. HoT meta was released, which even furthered the presence of a bunker meta. Literally the only ranged attacks that were in play were: Some Power Shattering if you consider it ranged, Limited Fresh Air play wasn't ever really viable and it was more mid-range anyway, Bad mid-range Grenadiers, Thief shortbows used for mobility, Bunker Druids with Longbows that had no damage, that were only using the Longbow for Decap pretty much, and then the superior ranged attacker the DH. Even the DH's True Shot and other LB attacks, were more of something to soften a player up before it pulled you into melee vs. trap & CC bursting. For the most part you could kite in the open vs. DH ranged and avoid any serious kill damage so long as you dodged the obvious tell of True Shot. The point being is that there was damage in the DH's ranged, but it was nothing like the original LB/GS Power Rangers in the times of Core Meta or what we have now in PoF meta. Ranged attacks were ridiculously gimped during the end of Core Meta & HoT Meta.
4. The interesting thing here, and the most important point in this post, is that the HoT Bunker Meta went on for too loooooong. People had began to adapt their playstyles and ideal of "What GW2 should feel like" to the end of the Core Meta where there was no dangerous ranged, and the HoT Bunker Meta, where everyone had began to just walk directly into a node because everyone was a super tanky bruiser or bunker, humping their local Auramancer, and not even DH ranged was to be worried about at all. In fact, the DH WANTED to get into the team fight because that's where his serious kill potential was. So you have this HoT Meta going on where there is no advantageous reason to fight anywhere except on the node. In those days there was little reason to go off a node, unless it was to kite and survive, reset and come back. Every build was a team fighter then, save Theives & Power Mesmers for +ing, and Bunker Druid/Scrapper for side nodes. So the idea of "ranged attacks being very weak play in GW2" began to set in. The idea that "ranged attacks are just sort of supposed to be something to peck at a player, not really deal kill damage" set in. This expectation of how GW2 felt, shaped the way people played. So this meta results in players being able to almost entirely disregard ranged attackers. It also resulted in players completely overlooking and never learning about the importance of objects in maps, which were clearly designed with the original purpose to kite around, to create anti-LOS. Knowing LOS tactics at the end of the Core Meta and during the elongated HoT Meta, bode little to no importance at all. This effect was worsened by the fact that in GW2, melee goes through objects! So during this phase of Core/HoT Meta, where only bruiser/bunker play was active, learning about how to use objects for anti-LOS was almost completely disregarded by nearly 90% or greater of the player base. So the ideal sets in that "GW2 pvp is supposed to feel this certain way" because it DID feel that way, for waaaaaay too long, and aside from people saying they want new things, I've noticed that they really don't like large changes in how a game feels or plays, 5+ years in. In a way, I can't blame them for that.
5. PoF is released with the reappearance of ranged attack play. Deadeyes are released along with Soulbeast, which brought back LB/GS threat. Everything about how conquest needs to be played changes. There is no more bumping chests against each other at mid without worrying about who's standing on the ledge with ranged attacks, and boy did that piss off most of the player base on principle. But what principle are we talking about here that pissed them off? Are these ranged attacks really over powered as some claim, or are these players just not liking how it feels, because it doesn't feel like how the game used to always feel? Maybe these players are slow to adapt to the new conquest style, or maybe they are just reluctant to do so, and would rather see nerfs in place that would return a bruiser/bunker non-ranged meta only, because that is how the game is supposed to feel to them.

All I know is that every good player I know, p1 p2 p3 w/e, are making statements in this forum, well explaining why these builds are easy to counter-play, and how to do it. They aren't lying, they aren't dEfeNdiNG-ThEiR-mAiN, they're being serious. And it doesn't require some god-tier pro gaming level skill to do it, it just requires letting go of these old ideals of how the game should be played. You've got to asks yourselves: "Is it really overpowered or am I doing something wrong?" "Am I just wanting the game to feel like the old metas again?"

Hey, I'm not gonna tell you what's right or wrong. Just thought I'd throw this out there to think about. I just really want to point out again, that every other game ever, that ever had ranged attacks in it, had ranged attacks that were dangerous. Guild Wars 2 up until PoF has been a very weird exception. Why Should Guild Wars 2 be any different?

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:You should probably make a thread "How to deal with SLB" or "How to win against SLB" where a lot of people will try to help you and you will have a lot more success.

I agree that "l2p" is the first step in all competitive gaming. In this case, I don't need to make a help thread as I've learned a lot about SLB play chatting with SLB veterans like @shadowpass.4236 and @"Trevor Boyer.6524" who do try to be helpful and constructive even when discussing changes to their main. I'm not putting words in their mouths in saying that both are absolutely fine with nerfing Sic 'Em. Shadowpass is fine removing it entirely--said it multiple times in this tread alone. Trevor suggested a range nerf which he and I discussed in your "Buff Sic 'Em" thread, if I remember correctly.

However, I am pretty sure you don't want an advice (you believe SLB is unbeatable because you have tried "everything" without success) - you want straight nerf just to feel better, which is sad, really.

Please stop making up stuff that proves you haven't read most of what I've said.

If I was a dev, I wouldn't dumb down the game for you.

I wouldn't do that for anyone. That includes buffing Sic 'Em for someone who actually thinks it needs a buff in 2019.

[kiritsugu emeya.3962]

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@"kiritsugu emeya.3962" said:facts:1) quotes by Twilight Tempest.7584 the guy who made the post "Just make condi-mirage viable (not OP) and rev is fine. No nerf needed"mirage is viable and it actually counters slb

When your spec (SLB) is supposedly underrepresented it's weak and needs buffs. But when another is definitely underrepresented (condi-mirage), it's just fine. Okay.

but its not "supposdely underpresented" dude. you cant just start a fire because of 4-6 rangers. and do u see me ever saying it needs buffs??????? . condi mirage isnt underrpresented its just doing fine, if its not, then the problem is from you.

2) another quote "I hear a SLB just won in the last mAT. So I guess there goes that argument."

no sicem soulbeast has ever come close to winning an mat.

guess why? because sicem soulbeast doesnt fit in meta comps, it was only flandre on eu and he wasnt running sicem, but boonbeast before the nerf.

So two Sic 'Ems in recent NA finals aren't even "close to winning an mat"? Okay. By the way, how many mirages have been in MATs lately?

Never mind that the tired argument that "my spec isn't even in the top ___ or useful in meta comps" does not mean "my spec is perfectly fine, not OP in any way, and doesn't need nerfs, but in fact buffs."

If that were the standard for whether something is broken or needs reworks, then mirage never would have been touched, based on its LB and MAT representation (lack thereof). I'm not saying Mirage didn't need nerfs, but that isn't because it was dominating the top of the LB/MATs (it wasn't).

have you even seen the finals of na mat the finals was 500-30 wasnt even close, only reason they got second place was because of how bad the brackets are. (you are clueless)mirage has won every single mat in na for the past year, before the nerf it was condi mirage over and over, and after the nerf it was power mirage not because condi mirage isnt good but power mirage fit the comp better. there are over 50+ mesmers in top 200 (again you are clueless)

3) another quote "At this rate mirage will be deleted before I even come close to gitting gud with it. :'( I've always avoided meta builds in order to not be too annoying with my mes"maybe stop "always" avoiding meta builds

Congrats. You dug all the way back to an early post of mine when I was just starting to play some PvP at a time condi-Mirage was at the height of forum QQ and hate, in the middle of a prolonged nerf-wave (which may still be ongoing).

your post was in January not that far behind babeonly reason condi mirage was nerfed because of its high winrate across multiple tiers with many players using it, this here is a quote by anet ben on pvp discord "Mirage: Scepter/Pistol, Axe/Torch - 60%, Mirage: Sword/Sword, Greatsword - 58%, We have more detail than we had before"another quote by anetben "60% win rate is pretty high for us"not gonna say much

Who says I haven't resorted to meta builds by now? Assume much? Not that there is a single "meta" mesmer build at the moment. Unlike rangers which have at least three meta SLB builds.

what are you talking about there are kitten ton builds that are viablemirage is an extremely versatile classincase of ranger its core which is useless, boonbeast which after the nerf is now useless, and sicem slb which is underrated.(clueless)

4) there are literally only 4-5 soulbeasts who run "sicem" in top 200 in nafor eu there is like 1 druid and 1 soulbeast in top 50 not sure about 200

See #2 above, and #5 below for what I think of LB/MAT representation as being all there is to balance.answered

5)another pathetic quote "I don't care if Soulbeast is not the most viable in the top 10% when it's over performing in the remaining 90%"DID U JUST SAY over performing in the remaining 90% and used idc in the same sentence

I did. Not sure what you're saying. Be more clear when you're trying to denigrate me next time.

you cant say I DONT CARE when ur having a conversation/argument, like cant u get it urself???

6)war/weaver/mirage all counter sicem soulbeast

That's nice. Thief, Scrapper, and Protection Holo all hard counter condi-mirage. Several others stall it out. What's your point?

omg are u serious scrapper is useless it doesnt even counter you, and prot holo should take node off of condi miragebut some condi mirage builds can defeat even prot holo builds that are specifically anti condimy point is that sicem soulbeast is already countered, u want to counter it even more?

7) anet looks at how high the win ratio is for a spec inorder to nerf it or not, and incase of ranger its low

If this were 100% all there is to it, then I repeat: Mesmer and its specs would never have been touched. But feel free to think that what applies to others doesn't apply to your spec in the same situation.

i already answered this above, fyi my spec isnt even close to 50%

8)hight tier players dont give a kitten about sicem, because its a meme

Cool story bro.

9) apparently low tier players care

Not just low tier.who else?

"me new to game, me hate this skill, class, me go to forums QQ" :(done

Yes, dismiss anything you don't like as pleb nonsense/silver struggles. Come back later when you get nerfed. ;) Good day.

---

EDIT: I don't usually bother looking up someone's post history, but I took a quick look and it all makes sense now. You don't want your SLB roaming vids to die. :joy:

i got 9k hours on ranger if u see my vids youd notice that i rarely use sicem, i use it when im forced to fight unbeatable specs, because without sicem i cant touch them, for example holo/weaver/condi mirageand i can do the same as you and just ask for nerfs on mes class (not condi mirage as i think its perfectly fine currently) but i wont, i would instead learn how to fight each class/spec.not gonna even reply anymore gl in ur clueless revolution LMFAO

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:THE ULTIMATE UNVEILING(snip)

Interesting read as always. Speaking only for myself, I wasn't around to experience those shifts in ranged danger. So there is no preconceived notion on my part as to how ranged attacks should be in GW2 post PoF. For all intents and purposes, I've only known a GW2 with strong ranged attacks.

From a design perspective, it seems to me that all else being equal, ranged attacks should never do the same amount of damage as melee attacks, let alone more. That is because melee is inherently more risky than ranged. Yet post PoF, we have ranged attacks very capable of rivaling melee attacks, and in many cases beating them in both raw output and usability. This is true comparing auto attacks with auto attacks and bursts with bursts. LB autos hit as hard as melee autos. Sic' Em + Unstoppable Union Rapid Fire rivals the biggest melee bursts. All from the safety of range (and even stealth).

Since I only know post-PoF GW2, I can only speak to what "feels wrong" here and now.

[Evil.1580]

I am very interested to see the last season winrate of ranger and mesmer :)

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

Whether you reply or not, I'll respond to some things you said for anyone following this.

@kiritsugu emeya.3962 said:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@kiritsugu emeya.3962 said:facts:1) quotes by Twilight Tempest.7584 the guy who made the post "Just make condi-mirage viable (not OP) and rev is fine. No nerf needed"mirage is viable and it actually counters slb

When your spec (SLB) is supposedly underrepresented it's weak and needs buffs. But when another is definitely underrepresented (condi-mirage), it's just fine. Okay.

but its not "supposdely underpresented" dude. you cant just start a fire because of 4-6 rangers. and do u see me ever saying it needs buffs??????? . condi mirage isnt underrpresented its just doing fine, if its not, then the problem is from you.

2) another quote "I hear a SLB just won in the last mAT. So I guess there goes that argument."

no sicem soulbeast has ever come close to winning an mat.

guess why? because sicem soulbeast doesnt fit in meta comps, it was only flandre on eu and he wasnt running sicem, but boonbeast before the nerf.

So two Sic 'Ems in recent NA finals aren't even "close to winning an mat"? Okay. By the way, how many mirages have been in MATs lately?

Never mind that the tired argument that "my spec isn't even in the top ___ or useful in meta comps" does not mean "my spec is perfectly fine, not OP in any way, and doesn't need nerfs, but in fact buffs."

If that were the standard for whether something is broken or needs reworks, then mirage never would have been touched, based on its LB and MAT representation (lack thereof). I'm not saying Mirage didn't need nerfs, but that isn't because it was dominating the top of the LB/MATs (it wasn't).

have you even seen the finals of na mat the finals was 500-30 wasnt even close, only reason they got second place was because of how bad the brackets are. (you are clueless)mirage has won every single mat in na for the past year, before the nerf it was condi mirage over and over, and after the nerf it was power mirage not because condi mirage isnt good but power mirage fit the comp better. there are over 50+ mesmers in top 200 (again you are clueless)

Here's a pretty different tally of SLB and Mesmer LB/mAT representation from earlier in this thread:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/943900/#Comment_943900

How much either spec is represented is pretty irrelevant to my basic point: SLB is still powercrept, it has some busted mechanics, and its damage in general is too high. You're welcome to disagree with me and everyone else who feels this way.

3) another quote "At this rate mirage will be deleted before I even come close to gitting gud with it. :'( I've always avoided meta builds in order to not be too annoying with my mes"maybe stop "always" avoiding meta builds

Congrats. You dug all the way back to an early post of mine when I was just starting to play some PvP at a time condi-Mirage was at the height of forum QQ and hate, in the middle of a prolonged nerf-wave (which may still be ongoing).

your post was in January not that far behind babe

Still a lot of clicking "Next" with the amount of posts I have. :smile:

Who says I haven't resorted to meta builds by now? Assume much? Not that there is a single

"meta"

mesmer build at the moment. Unlike rangers which have at least three meta SLB builds.

what are you talking about there are kitten ton builds that are viablemirage is an extremely versatile class

I said "meta", not just "viable"/"playable". Fact: no mesmer build is considered "meta" right now.

incase of ranger its core which is useless, boonbeast which after the nerf is now useless, and sicem slb which is underrated.(clueless)

Do you know what "underrated" means? You might want to look that word up. You're saying the opposite of what I think you mean. (But apparently I'm "clueless".)

5)another pathetic quote "I don't care if Soulbeast is not the most viable in the top 10% when it's over performing in the remaining 90%"DID U JUST SAY over performing in the remaining 90% and used idc in the same sentence

I did. Not sure what you're saying. Be more clear when you're trying to denigrate me next time.

you cant say I DONT CARE when ur having a conversation/argument, like cant u get it urself???

But.. I really don't care if SLB isn't the strongest up top. Because that doesn't mean it's not problematic. See condi-mirage 2018 for why.

6)war/weaver/mirage all counter sicem soulbeast

That's nice. Thief, Scrapper, and Protection Holo all hard counter condi-mirage. Several others stall it out. What's your point?

omg are u serious scrapper is useless it doesnt even counter you

Did you just say Scrapper does not counter condi-Mirage?

EDIT: I don't usually bother looking up someone's post history, but I took a quick look and it all makes sense now. You don't want your SLB roaming vids to die. :joy:

and i can do the same as you and just ask for nerfs on mes class (not condi mirage as i think its perfectly fine currently) but i wont, i would instead learn how to fight each class/spec.

If you had any idea how much mes has already been nerfed you'd know there's practically nothing left to nerf.

not gonna even reply anymore gl in ur clueless revolution LMFAO

Fine by me. You're kind of toxic anyway. gl in ur Youtube empire LMFAO.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:I am very interested to see the last season winrate of ranger and mesmer :)

Same. I've always wished Anet would publish build performance stats.

[praqtos.9035]

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@kiritsugu emeya.3962 said:omg are u serious scrapper is useless it doesnt even counter you

Did you just say Scrapper does not counter condi-Mirage?

AhahahahahhahahahahahahaJust like everything else he trying answer to :joy:

[trixantea.1230]

By the way, is the next balance patch coming next week?

[Solori.6025]

@trixantea.1230 said:By the way, is the next balance patch coming next week?

IIRC balance patches are done mid season, so probably not until late June or early julyEDIT: but knowing Anet. Their is always the possibility of them curbstomping something early.I'm betting it's going to be thieves

[mortrialus.3062]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

I just keep wonder this thing. Soulbeast has been here with the Sic 'Em mechanic since 2017.

Why do you want nerfs now? Is it because your favorite profession

I've always had a perspective that absolutely no one skill should not be critting for 20k+. Let alone 40k the way we've seen with Sic Em Soulbeast.

Personally I'm not a die hard on Soulbeast nerfs. Spellbreaker, Engineer of all stripes ,and Glint Shiro Herald are far more deserving of nerfs.

But at the end of the day 30k rapid fires should not be a thing. And longbow in general should require more IQ for all builds than 4>2.

Yet you didn't express your opinion last year or 2017, you started 2019 ;)Anyway, you said it yourself - there are far more powerful builds than the Soulbeast.

I actually started mentioning it back in 2018 when I first noticed things like 60k Worldly Impacts and 30k rapid fires, that I thought level of crit damage is inherently unhealthy.

[mortrialus.3062]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

you want straight nerf just to feel better, which is sad, really. If I was a dev, I wouldn't dumb down the game for you.Thats what everyone wanted, nerf memser so they can facesmash against keyboard and win, which is happened. Why soulbeast should escape the same fate?

Because Soulbeast is not viable at higher tiers, mesmer was and still is viable.That is why Soulbeast should not only escape the same fate but also receive buffs.High tiers? Do you mean boonbeast/sic em lb that flashing in monthly AT's ? Ignore facts as much as you like but dont be surprised when ranger get deserved nerfs :)

Yeah I mean the 4-5 SLBs (in total) that are in top 200 NA and the 2 that lost horribly at the mat final, where the 2 slbs lost them the game:)We can count the top 200 meta builds 1 by 1, together, if you want and compare them with the 4-5 SLBs... Will be fun to see how "many" people play this "OP" build at higher tiers, and post the data here ;)Let me know.

I can count 3 SLBs in the top 30 from the previous season. There's undoubtedly more in that top 30 I don't personally recognized and far far more in the rest of the top 250 I didn't try to tally up for this post.

@"bOTEB.1573" said:The point is that OP like the mesmer a lot, it got nerfed and now he want to nerf everything else in order to bring his favorite profession, more or less, to its previous state. Part of his arguments are: "it's ok for slb but its not ok for mesmer?", "if mesmer got nerf hammered, everything else should too" etc. etcSorry, I agree with a guy from the previous posts:"Someone has been playing an over powered Condi Mesmer and now seeking revenge. Over hyped unnecessary nerf calls."

"The Boosted AF Scrublord's Prayer:

My build is fine.And if you complain you're bad.And if you aren't bad you just don't know what you're talking about.And if you do know what you're talking about you just need to tweak your build.And if your build is good you're biased against my class.And if you aren't biased, you're just bitter about previous nerfs.And if you aren't bitter, my build can't be touched or the entire class wouldn't be viable anymore.And if it would be then what about these OTHER OP builds?And if you want changes in other classes too, I deserve to be OP because of this one time years ago when it was underpowered."

[praqtos.9035]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

you want straight nerf just to feel better, which is sad, really. If I was a dev, I wouldn't dumb down the game for you.Thats what everyone wanted, nerf memser so they can facesmash against keyboard and win, which is happened. Why soulbeast should escape the same fate?

Because Soulbeast is not viable at higher tiers, mesmer was and still is viable.That is why Soulbeast should not only escape the same fate but also receive buffs.High tiers? Do you mean boonbeast/sic em lb that flashing in monthly AT's ? Ignore facts as much as you like but dont be surprised when ranger get deserved nerfs :)

Yeah I mean the 4-5 SLBs (in total) that are in top 200 NA and the 2 that lost horribly at the mat final, where the 2 slbs lost them the game:)We can count the top 200 meta builds 1 by 1, together, if you want and compare them with the 4-5 SLBs... Will be fun to see how "many" people play this "OP" build at higher tiers, and post the data here ;)Let me know.

I can count 3 SLBs in the top 30 from the previous season. There's undoubtedly more in that top 30 I don't personally recognized and far far more in the rest of the top 250 I didn't try to tally up for this post.

@"bOTEB.1573" said:The point is that OP like the mesmer a lot, it got nerfed and now he want to nerf everything else in order to bring his favorite profession, more or less, to its previous state. Part of his arguments are: "it's ok for slb but its not ok for mesmer?", "if mesmer got nerf hammered, everything else should too" etc. etcSorry, I agree with a guy from the previous posts:"Someone has been playing an over powered Condi Mesmer and now seeking revenge. Over hyped unnecessary nerf calls."

"The Boosted AF Scrublord's Prayer:

My build is fine.And if you complain you're bad.And if you aren't bad you just don't know what you're talking about.And if you do know what you're talking about you just need to tweak your build.And if your build is good you're biased against my class.

And if you aren't biased, you're just bitter about previous nerfs.

And if you aren't bitter, my build can't be touched or the entire class wouldn't be viable anymore.And if would be then what about these OTHER OP builds?And if you want changes in other classes too, I deserve to be OP because of this one time years ago when it was underpowered."This scrublord also cut/ignored half of my post :DAlso they dont balance only around "high tiers" only, they nerfed DE despite it not being represented at high tiers,mesmer when their representation significantly dropped and power mesmer as well never been there. Mesmer viable - lol

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@"mortrialus.3062" said:"The Boosted AF Scrublord's Prayer:

My build is fine.And if you complain you're bad.And if you aren't bad you just don't know what you're talking about.And if you do know what you're talking about you just need to tweak your build.And if your build is good you're biased against my class.And if you aren't biased, you're just bitter about previous nerfs.And if you aren't bitter, my build can't be touched or the entire class wouldn't be viable anymore.And if would be then what about these OTHER OP builds?And if you want changes in other classes too, I deserve to be OP because of this one time years ago when it was underpowered."

^All on display in here, particularly in the last couple pages.

[Evil.1580]

"The Whinylord's Prayer":

Everything but my main should be nerfed.Bring everything else below my main tier.Everything like my main should get nerfs, but the nerfs better be perfect so I can still see players play this build BUT I have to own them every time with my BUILD (which is not meta). "Yeah, I have always avoided playing meta builds" and I don't understand why ANET don't nerf everything that faceroll my non-meta build.And if you "complain" you don't know what you are talking about.Mediocre tier in all game modes? I DoN'T CaRe!It is easy countered? I DoN'T CaRe - I CaN't CouNteR iT - so it must be nerfed!But good players counter it easy? Well, guess what? I DoN'T CaRe - I CaN't CouNteR iT! And don't say it is a L2P issue... It is complicated and I can't explain it but it is not that!I didn't ask for help how to counter it with my build that actually counters their build? I DoN'T CaRe, bro! Don't you understand that I simply DO NOT CARE about logic I just want straight nerfs!I am using the word "OP" to the build that is not meta? I DoN'T CaRe - people are clueless that is why they don't use it much, it has cosmic potential, everyone knows that if you play OP builds your win chance is higher! Don't know why higher tier players don't play it but guess what, I DoN'T CaRe!The Soulbeasts lost 500-30 at the finals? I DoN'T CaRe - their build was super OP but they can't win the match on their own - the other players sucked hard, only the Soulbeast OP build made this 30 points.

Did I miss something?ahahaha ;)

[mortrialus.3062]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:"The Whinylord's Prayer":

Everything but my main should be nerfed.Bring everything else below my main tier.Everything like my main should get nerfs, but the nerfs better be perfect so I can still see players play this build BUT I have to own them every time with my BUILD (which is not meta). "Yeah, I have always avoided playing meta builds" and I don't understand why ANET don't nerf everything that faceroll my non-meta build.And if you "complain" you don't know what you are talking about.Mediocre tier in all game modes? I DoN'T CaRe!It is easy countered? I DoN'T CaRe - I CaN't CouNteR iT - so it must be nerfed!But good players counter it easy? Well, guess what? I DoN'T CaRe - I CaN't CouNteR iT! And don't say it is a L2P issue... It is complicated and I can't explain it but it is not that!I didn't ask for help how to counter it with my build that actually counters their build? I DoN'T CaRe, bro! Don't you understand that I simply DO NOT CARE about logic I just want straight nerfs!I am using the word "OP" to the build that is not meta? I DoN'T CaRe - people are clueless that is why they don't use it much, it has cosmic potential, everyone knows that if you play OP builds your win chance is higher! Don't know why higher tier players don't play it but guess what, I DoN'T CaRe!The Soulbeasts lost 500-30 at the finals? I DoN'T CaRe - their build was super OP but they can't win the match on their own - the other players sucked hard, only the Soulbeast OP build made this 30 points.

Did I miss something?ahahaha ;)

Yeah. Its a riff on the scrublord's prayer from core a gaming.

Which itself is a riff on the narcissists prayer.

So for starters the original scrub lords prayer is about this topic, and second the format should be similar to the narcissists prayer.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Did I miss something?

Pretty much everything.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"bOTEB.1573"

Mesmer (and Mirage in particular) have always hard countered rangers. I can explain this further if needed but they have so many tools available to them that they can completely shut down every single way we could potentially damage them as well as nullify our class mechanic for 90% of the fight.

Frankly, the amount of mesmers that have issues against the class they should beat the easiest is ridiculous. To put it into perspective, how silly would it look if every ranger made nerf threads against necromancers? lol

Ranger has some glaring weaknesses that good players can easily exploit. Why do you think longbow ranger is NEVER used competitively? Because anyone, regardless of class, can simply walk behind LoS and become completely immune to our damage. It's even easier to pull off on meta Mirage builds because they bring 3 stunbreaks, 2-3 teleports + spammable leaps, can dodge while CC'd by Point Blank Shot, and have interrupts + distortion. Not to mention target breaking stops Rapid Fire mid-channel regardless of reveal.

There are ZERO reasons why a Mirage should ever die to a ranger, especially a longbow ranger at that.

[mortrialus.3062]

@shadowpass.4236 said:Frankly, the amount of mesmers that have issues against the class they should beat the easiest is ridiculous. To put it into perspective, how silly would it look if every ranger made nerf threads against necromancers? lol

.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII.4836 said:

@Hooglese.4860 said:

This isn't true. The higher the rank you are, the harder scourge is to beat. At low ranks people faceroll scourge, but don't know the game so they lose regardless due to bad rotations.

The higher rank you are, the more you know that scourage is easy to beat, because you're a better player... You wouldn't have gotten there if you just gave up like every-other gold monkey complaining about scourages' low skill floor.

Scourge is ridiculous at high ranks, they can literally walk to any point to +1, force a decap/cap, and walk away and no one can do anything about it because in plat, people peel and support correctly and the Scourge's know how to actually use their skills properly. Not to mention they are like a nuclear warhead in a team fight

-shadowpass.4236

[praqtos.9035]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Frankly, the amount of mesmers that have issues against the class they should beat the easiest is ridiculous. To put it into perspective, how silly would it look if every ranger made nerf threads against necromancers? lol

.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII.4836 said:

@Hooglese.4860 said:

This isn't true. The higher the rank you are, the harder scourge is to beat. At low ranks people faceroll scourge, but don't know the game so they lose regardless due to bad rotations.

The higher rank you are, the more you know that scourage is easy to beat, because you're a better player... You wouldn't have gotten there if you just gave up like every-other gold monkey complaining about scourages' low skill floor.

Scourge is ridiculous at high ranks, they can literally walk to any point to +1, force a decap/cap, and walk away and no one can do anything about it because in plat, people peel and support correctly and the Scourge's know how to actually use their skills properly. Not to mention they are like a nuclear warhead in a team fight

-

shadowpass.4236

On top of that... No clue what build he is talking about, sounds like classic 6/6/6/6/6/6

[Evil.1580]

@shadowpass.4236 said:@"bOTEB.1573"

Mesmer (and Mirage in particular) have always hard countered rangers. I can explain this further if needed but they have so many tools available to them that they can completely shut down every single way we could potentially damage them as well as nullify our class mechanic for 90% of the fight.

Frankly, the amount of mesmers that have issues against the class they should beat the easiest is ridiculous. To put it into perspective, how silly would it look if every ranger made nerf threads against necromancers? lol

Ranger has some glaring weaknesses that good players can easily exploit. Why do you think longbow ranger is NEVER used competitively? Because anyone, regardless of class, can simply walk behind LoS and become completely immune to our damage. It's even easier to pull off on meta Mirage builds because they bring 3 stunbreaks, 2-3 teleports + spammable leaps, can dodge while CC'd by Point Blank Shot, and have interrupts + distortion. Not to mention target breaking stops Rapid Fire mid-channel regardless of reveal.

There are ZERO reasons why a Mirage should ever die to a ranger, especially a longbow ranger at that.

Don't tell this to me please (I already know it),Tell it to the OP - he is the mesmer that wants soulbeast nerfed.

[shadowpass.4236]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Frankly, the amount of mesmers that have issues against the class they should beat the easiest is ridiculous. To put it into perspective, how silly would it look if every ranger made nerf threads against necromancers? lol

.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII.4836 said:

@Hooglese.4860 said:

This isn't true. The higher the rank you are, the harder scourge is to beat. At low ranks people faceroll scourge, but don't know the game so they lose regardless due to bad rotations.

The higher rank you are, the more you know that scourage is easy to beat, because you're a better player... You wouldn't have gotten there if you just gave up like every-other gold monkey complaining about scourages' low skill floor.

Scourge is ridiculous at high ranks, they can literally walk to any point to +1, force a decap/cap, and walk away and no one can do anything about it because in plat, people peel and support correctly and the Scourge's know how to actually use their skills properly. Not to mention they are like a nuclear warhead in a team fight

-

shadowpass.4236

Somehow it's always EU mesmers that seem to be the most ignorant. You're one of the mesmer players that I was referring to. It's incredible how much you seem to struggle against the class you counter the hardest.

1. I didn't make that thread.
2. Scourge was dominating high plat + legendary on both NA and EU at PoF release. The Sic Em soulbeast build being complained about in this thread is strictly used as a pubstomper in gold and below. Unlike pre-nerf Scourge, Sic Em SLB didn't/doesn't work against skilled players.
3. In that quote, I was pointing out a Scourge's ability to +1 any fight, dump sewage on the node, and instantly guarantee a decap/full cap because of how much consistent kill pressure they were putting out. Sic Em ranger is not a meta build, nor does it compare to Scourge during it's prime.

Even at that point of the game, scourges could still be easily kited and killed by rangers in a 1v1. In the post you quoted from two years ago, I was specifically addressing their ability to decap and escape with peel from a Firebrand duo.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"praqtos.9035" said:On top of that... No clue what build he is talking about, sounds like classic 6/6/6/6/6/6

So you don't remember the Scourge meta build everyone and their mother was using at PoF release? Hmm, it sounds like you don't have enough experience to offer constructive feedback. D=

No, it was curses, soul reaping, and scourge. The 6/6/6/6/6/6 trait system you thought it "sounds like" was actually removed in 2015 before HoT was released.

In conclusion, it seems like you're not only inexperienced, but also ignorant and attempting to derail the thread with severely outdated information.

[praqtos.9035]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:On top of that... No clue what build he is talking about, sounds like classic 6/6/6/6/6/6

So you don't remember the Scourge meta build everyone and their mother was using at PoF release? Hmm, it sounds like you don't have enough experience to offer constructive feedback. D=

No, it was curses, soul reaping, and scourge. The 6/6/6/6/6/6 trait system you thought it "sounds like" was actually removed in 2015 before HoT was released.

In conclusion, it seems like you're not only inexperienced, but also ignorant and attempting to derail the thread with severely outdated information.I meant the mesmer that has spam leaps,3 breakstuns,breaktargets (since when its break channeling skills lol).Its far away from being "free kill" as you trying to make it look. Your claims make no sense either. Mesmer always countered ranger? How about all the way of HoT that won mesmer all the way? Oh, you and your ridiculous claims as mesmer bursting from over 2.3k range xDI have feeling like the most of people who use forums are from NA. For them power mesmer is some kind of ultimate god(hence why Eurantien complain power mirage is the most busted class/spec in the game,Zeromis farmed him too hard?:D), on EU there is no power mesmers at all. Cmirage is still busted on NA, we have Flandre that reroll to soulbeast on demand anyway. And so on.If someone is ignorant - NA region, at this point we need separate forum for NA and EU region and we will see the difference

[mortrialus.3062]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Frankly, the amount of mesmers that have issues against the class they should beat the easiest is ridiculous. To put it into perspective, how silly would it look if every ranger made nerf threads against necromancers? lol

.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII.4836 said:

@Hooglese.4860 said:

This isn't true. The higher the rank you are, the harder scourge is to beat. At low ranks people faceroll scourge, but don't know the game so they lose regardless due to bad rotations.

The higher rank you are, the more you know that scourage is easy to beat, because you're a better player... You wouldn't have gotten there if you just gave up like every-other gold monkey complaining about scourages' low skill floor.

Scourge is ridiculous at high ranks, they can literally walk to any point to +1, force a decap/cap, and walk away and no one can do anything about it because in plat, people peel and support correctly and the Scourge's know how to actually use their skills properly. Not to mention they are like a nuclear warhead in a team fight

-

shadowpass.4236

Somehow it's always EU mesmers that seem to be the most ignorant.

Name calling not appropriate in this forum.

For the record I'm a Secret Illuminati Moonbase mesmer.

You're one of the mesmer players that I was referring to. It's incredible how much you seem to struggle against the class you counter the hardest.

I don't struggle with Sic Em Snipers. I find them philosophically repugnant. No one skill should be critting for 30k on any build no matter how glassy their stats, traits, and skill choices are. That level of damage is inherently unhealthy for the game. I remember you talking about condition skills, about how 10k burning from one skill over 7 seconds when you include the wind up was very specifically too much damage too quickly and I do have receipts for that. And yet 30k crits on longbow which have even less mercy as condition cleanses and resistance won't retroactively help you are acceptable?

I also find Longbow 4 into Longbow 2 annoying and depressingly effective for how braindead it is. Literally every ranger thoughtlessly opens with that combo from people playing their first PvP game on twitch all the way to people that hit top 10 like Kiri and Mad Lord of Milk. Even if I blink the PBS, get into melee range and instant gib the soulbeast in close quarters it's still an unfun build to fight against. And that's important to consider too. I know you've mentioned that about other builds once or twice.

1. I didn't make that thread.

No, you just uncritically signal boosted a thread titled "Delete Scourge from Ranked" thread. I got you. It was hilarious. Just take the L.

2. Scourge was dominating high plat + legendary on both NA and EU at PoF release. The Sic Em soulbeast build being complained about in this thread is strictly used as a pubstomper in gold and below. Unlike pre-nerf Scourge, Sic Em SLB didn't/doesn't work against skilled players.

Sic Em Soulbeast does fine in all tiers of ranked. "It doesn't work against skilled players." is nonsense. It's a fine. It gets showings in the top 10. It's in the top 20. It's in the top 30. And besides "Not being the best build ever" didn't stop Plasma Beam on Fresh Air Ele getting nerfed.

3. In that quote, I was pointing out a Scourge's ability to +1 any fight, dump sewage on the node, and instantly guarantee a decap/full cap because of how much consistent kill pressure they were putting out. Sic Em ranger is not a meta build, nor does it compare to Scourge during it's prime.

Even at that point of the game, scourges could still be easily kited and killed by rangers in a 1v1. In the post you quoted from two years ago, I was specifically addressing their ability to decap and escape with peel from a Firebrand duo.

At the end of the day if "mesmers crying about rangers" is the same as "rangers crying about necros", well you got caught and just take the L and move on than try to get defensive and try to justify it.

You posted more about how much you hated Scourge after that post. I just specifically picked that one was just the most hilariously poignant.