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Soulbeast Needs Some Genuine Nerf Bat Love in the Next Balance Update


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@mortrialus.3062@"praqtos.9035"

I've learned not to engage in longer discussions with people I can't reason/have a constructive conversation with. So, I didn't read your last posts.

Instead, here's a clip from the Naru's stream (the necro for Team USA). Watch from the timestamp for the next two minutes until the 2 hr 30 min mark.

Since Naru has won nearly every single monthly on NA, it's obvious that he has a well-informed opinion on class balance, game knowledge, and mechanics for PvP. You can also read his chat to see his viewers weigh in on the topic.

If an established necro main (the class ranger counters the hardest) has no issue dealing with sic em longbow soulbeast... that says a lot about the people (mesmer players in particular) that have been crying for nerfs.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:THE ULTIMATE UNVEILING

  1. Every other game ever, that had ranged attacks in it, had ranged attacks that were dangerous. This is not unusual. What is unusual is that Guild Wars 2 experienced a complete disappearance of ranged attack play for too many years.

Also been wanting to muse about this, but when you look at similar games like MOBAS a lot of the long range truly dangerous attacks operate almost exactly like Dragon Hunter's Deflecting Shot or Staff Weaver's Plasma Blast in that you select a direction in a 360 radius around the player character and fire the projectile, and the projectile has travel time and distance. There's a general tug and pull between low effort short range, high effort short range, low effort long range, and high effort long range.

The end result is that ranged attacks that can snipe opponents from far away and can truly threaten them also require a lot more skill to command beyond just pressing 2 and a machine gun barrage of arrows with track your target.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:@mortrialus.3062@"praqtos.9035"

I've learned not to engage in longer discussions with people I can't reason/have a constructive conversation with. So, I didn't read your last posts.

Instead, here's a clip from the Naru's stream (the necro for Team USA). Watch from the timestamp for the next two minutes until the 2 hr 30 min mark.

Since Naru has won nearly every single monthly on NA, it's obvious that he has a well-informed opinion on class balance, game knowledge, and mechanics for PvP. You can also read his chat to see his viewers weigh in on the topic.

If an established necro main (the class ranger counters the hardest) has no issue dealing with sic em longbow soulbeast... that says a lot about the people (mesmer players in particular) that have been crying for nerfs.

You specifically singled me out and called me ignorant and EU in your last post and I'm not sure which is worse and now you call me the unreasonable one?

Yes, Naru makes the grand realization that rev is much more powerful and unhealthy for the game than Soulbeast is. He's right. I made the same point that rev, spellbreaker, holo and scrapper are all higher priority right now.

The thing is just like it was with revenant, if the things around Soulbeast get nerfed without soulbeast getting addressed it's really just a balance patch away from running rough shot over the entire meta the same way rev has. Maybe next balance patch is the patch that brings down Spellbreaker and Holo and Rev to B Tier. That leaves us with a meta that's heavily weighted on Scrappers and Soulbeasts and those two builds will dominate.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:@mortrialus.3062@"praqtos.9035"

I've learned not to engage in longer discussions with people I can't reason/have a constructive conversation with. So, I didn't read your last posts.

Instead, here's
(the necro for Team USA). Watch from the timestamp for the next two minutes until the 2 hr 30 min mark.

Since Naru has won nearly every single monthly on NA, it's obvious that he has a well-informed opinion on class balance, game knowledge, and mechanics for PvP. You can also read his chat to see his viewers weigh in on the topic.

If an established necro main (the class ranger counters the hardest) has no issue dealing with sic em longbow soulbeast... that says a lot about the people (mesmer players in particular) that have been crying for nerfs.

You specifically singled me out and called me ignorant and EU in your last post and I'm not sure which is worse and now you call me the unreasonable one?

Yes, I believe that you're unreasonable. Based off of the way you respond, the threads you've made, and the views you have regarding balance, I am very much against debating any topic with you because it'll just be met with name calling, finger pointing, and the wasting of time.

I don't have a very high opinion of you, but I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings. I'm sorry if you feel that way.

Someone took being called "Shadow Pass Gas" as I stomped you in game a bit too personally.

I have my chat turned off when I play the game.

However, if you actually called me that, your admission only serves to reinforce my previous post.

If harmless deliberately bad puns offend you I apologize.

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@praqtos.9035 said:Its smart to not engage into discussion when you couldnt read my post twice, thanks

I figured the goofy smug anime face would carry the point across that I'm just making a joke and don't mean anything serious when I pulled up that old quote. Something to kind of have a chuckle over and not to be taken seriously like I'm a prosecutor genuinely condemning them. No harm no fowl from them. If they don't want to talk and don't appreciate teasing I'm not going to poke them more.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:@"bOTEB.1573"

Mesmer (and Mirage in particular) have always hard countered rangers. I can explain this further if needed but they have so many tools available to them that they can completely shut down every single way we could potentially damage them as well as nullify our class mechanic for 90% of the fight.

Frankly, the amount of mesmers that have issues against the class they should beat the easiest is ridiculous. To put it into perspective, how silly would it look if every ranger made nerf threads against necromancers? lol

Ranger has some glaring weaknesses that good players can easily exploit. Why do you think longbow ranger is NEVER used competitively? Because anyone, regardless of class, can simply walk behind LoS and become completely immune to our damage. It's even easier to pull off on meta Mirage builds because they bring 3 stunbreaks, 2-3 teleports + spammable leaps, can dodge while CC'd by Point Blank Shot, and have interrupts + distortion. Not to mention target breaking stops Rapid Fire mid-channel regardless of reveal.

There are ZERO reasons why a Mirage should ever die to a ranger, especially a longbow ranger at that.

Thanks, tell me I'm bad some more why dontcha? :tongue:

You know I respect your input, and this is no exception.

Though even if Mesmer/Mirage should be able to handle SLB, I don't think all the complaints about SLB lately are from Mesmer/Mirage players (or even Necros). It mostly seems like people hate what you've called "gimmick" builds with the over-the-top Sic 'Em + OWP LB or WI/Maul bursts. And I know you disapprove of those builds:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Sic Em and One Wolf Pack are both completely garbage gimmick utilities. You guys are dying to a meme build.

They aren't fun to fight against, aren't viable in competitive, and require very little skill to play. Remove them both from the game for all I care, the builds that use them are trash anyways.

The only time a Sic Em + OWP longbow build should ever be used is if you want to gank people that don't know how to defend themselves properly.

This is where you and @"bOTEB.1573" might disagree, I think:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Everyone knows that using "Sic 'Em!" is essential to most rangers.Because of that, its CD should be reduced to 20, maximum 25 sec. so rangers can use it more often.Rangers can't simply pray doing mediocre damage only once every 35 sec.We, rangers, deserve more consistent damage buff but 20-25 sec. is kinda acceptable.

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@Twilight Tempest.7584

I apologize. I'm usually met with a lot of backlash every time I respond to these types of threads.

So, I'll explain a little bit about how the pets work and why Mirage in particular can shut them down for the majority of a fight.

  1. When you order your pet to attack, the pet runs to your target.
  2. When this target stealths or target breaks, the pet runs back to you.
  3. When the target blinks up/down terrain, the pet has to path around any obstacles in order to reach the target.

This means that using a combination of skills like axe 3, blink, jaunts, sword 3, staff 2, torch 4, illusionary ambush, and signet of midnight cause our pets to spend the majority of the fight running back and forth between the player and the mesmer. Unlike clones, the pets don't automatically retarget, meaning there is a lot of downtime where the pet is simply unable to reach the mesmer to deal damage.

Against longbow, all a mesmer has to do is blink/jaunt behind LoS if there aren't any that are close enough to run behind. This is effectively an instant, complete invulnerability to our ranged damage. If you are revealed by Sic Em, using a target break such as Illusionary Ambush also cancels our Rapid Fire. Furthermore, the ranger having good timing with Point Blank Shot or Hilt Bash is rendered meaningless because the Mirage can simply dodge while cc'd. Also, they have more than enough stunbreaks/distorts to nullify any potential follow-up we have.

Now, I've just touched lightly on the subject. However, the conclusion here is that there is simply nothing a ranger can do to kill a well-played Mirage. It is our hardest counter. Neither the pet nor the player is able to do meaningful damage to a Mirage that knows how to react accordingly and abuse the amount of mobility/utility they have access to. In fact, especially against players like Zeromis, the only way I can actually kill him is if he doesn't pay attention to my Gazelle f2s and the charge attack. All of my mauls get evaded and any ccs I land on him don't amount to anything because he can either evade the next attack(s) or daze me during it and land a shatter combo. He abuses LoS so my longbow doesn't deal damage and when I try to cast any skill like Rapid Fire if he's out in the open, I end up getting interrupted, my projectiles get nullified, the arrows get bodyblocked by a clone, or I'm forced to evade ccs/skills like gs4. If I try to LoS his greatsword attacks, he can blink past the terrain and still burst me or use skills like sword 3 to continue applying pressure.

Also, while I believe condi Mirage is oppressive, I am more scared of a well-played power mesmer simply because the burst can 100-0 me if I don't play perfectly.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:@Twilight Tempest.7584

I apologize. I'm usually met with a lot of backlash every time I respond to these types of threads.

So, I'll explain a little bit about how the pets work and why Mirage in particular can shut them down for the majority of a fight.

  1. When you order your pet to attack, the pet runs to your target.
  2. When this target stealths or target breaks, the pet runs back to you.
  3. When the target blinks up/down terrain, the pet has to path around any obstacles in order to reach the target.

This means that using a combination of skills like axe 3, blink, jaunts, sword 3, staff 2, torch 4, illusionary ambush, and signet of midnight cause our pets spend the majority of the fight running back and forth between the player and the mesmer. Unlike clones, the pets don't automatically retarget, meaning there is a lot of downtime where the pet is simply unable to reach the mesmer to deal damage.

Against longbow, all a mesmer has to do is blink/jaunt behind LoS if there aren't any that are close enough to run behind. This is effectively an instant, complete invulnerability to our ranged damage. If you aren't revealed by Sic Em, using a stealth cancels any channeled skills like Rapid Fire. If you are revealed by Sic Em, using a target break such as Illusionary Ambush also cancels our Rapid Fire. Furthermore, the ranger having good timing with Point Blank Shot or Hilt Bash is rendered meaningless because the Mirage can simply dodge while cc'd. Also, they have more than enough stunbreaks/distorts to nullify any potential follow-up we have.

Now, I've just touched lightly on the subject. However, the conclusion here is that there is simply nothing a ranger can do to kill a well-played Mirage. It is our hardest counter. Neither the pet nor the player is able to do meaningful damage to a Mirage that knows how to react accordingly and abuse the amount of mobility/utility they have access to. In fact, even against players like Zeromis, the only way I can actually kill him is if he doesn't pay attention to my Gazelle f2s and the charge attack. All of my mauls get evaded and any ccs I land on him don't amount to anything because he can either evade the next attack(s) or daze me during it and land a shatter combo. He abuses LoS so my longbow doesn't deal damage and when I try to cast any skill like Rapid Fire if he's out in the open, I end up getting interrupted, my projectiles get nullified, the arrows get bodyblocked by a clone, or I'm forced to evade ccs/skills like gs4. If I try to LoS his greatsword attacks, he can blink past it and still burst me or use skills like sword 3 to continue applying pressure.

Also, while I believe condi Mirage is oppressive, I am more scared of a well-played power mesmer simply because the burst can 100-0 me if I don't play perfectly.

Really good tips that I'll try to keep in mind. For me, part of the problem with the gimmick SLBs is they aren't common so I don't get much practice with them. And then when they do show up, it sucks. But I'm sure these tips apply to all Rangers.

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This means that using a combination of skills like axe 3, blink, jaunts, sword 3, staff 2, torch 4, illusionary ambush, and signet of midnight cause our pets to spend the majority of the fight running back and forth between the player and the mesmer.Beastmastery builsd all has 25% movespeed bonus so they dont majority of time trying to reach mesmer unless player use JP, then they have to run around, like clones and phantasms. Oh smokescale have easiest time chasing players/mesmer and autostun seems like at important moments for you,its range is 240 and always reaching you,so you cant just run away from it.Unlike clones, the pets don't automatically retarget, meaning there is a lot of downtime where the pet is simply unable to reach the mesmer to deal damage.Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.If you aren't revealed by Sic Em, using a stealth cancels any channeled skills like Rapid Fire.L O L. I wont even read further... Since when stealth interrupt channelled skills,becase you want it ? After so many years...Also, while I believe condi Mirage is oppressive, I am more scared of a well-played power mesmer simply because the burst can 100-0 me if I don't play perfectly.If you got 100-0 by a mesmer, he did play perfectly and full zerk to make it happen

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@"praqtos.9035" said:

This means that using a combination of skills like axe 3, blink, jaunts, sword 3, staff 2, torch 4, illusionary ambush, and signet of midnight cause our pets to spend the majority of the fight running back and forth between the player and the mesmer.
  1. Beastmastery builsd all has 25% movespeed bonus so they dont majority of time trying to reach mesmer unless player use JP, then they have to run around, like clones and phantasms. Oh smokescale have easiest time chasing players/mesmer and autostun seems like at important moments for you,its range is 240 and always reaching you,so you cant just run away from it.Unlike clones, the pets don't automatically retarget, meaning there is a lot of downtime where the pet is simply unable to reach the mesmer to deal damage.
  2. Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.If you aren't revealed by Sic Em, using a stealth cancels any channeled skills like Rapid Fire.
  3. L O L. I wont even read further... Since when stealth interrupt channelled skills,becase you want it ? After so many years...Also, while I believe condi Mirage is oppressive, I am more scared of a well-played power mesmer simply because the burst can 100-0 me if I don't play perfectly.
  4. If you got 100-0 by a mesmer, he did play perfectly and full zerk to make it happen

  1. K
  2. You're wrong. If the pet attacks you after coming out of stealth, it means the player targetted you and ordered it to attack.
  3. Oops I was thinking of Smoke Assault.
  4. You're wrong. 100-0 burst by mesmers require absolutely 0 skill whatsoever. Clip 1 and 2
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@praqtos.9035 said:

This means that using a combination of skills like axe 3, blink, jaunts, sword 3, staff 2, torch 4, illusionary ambush, and signet of midnight cause our pets to spend the majority of the fight running back and forth between the player and the mesmer.Beastmastery builsd all has 25% movespeed bonus so they dont majority of time trying to reach mesmer unless player use JP, then they have to run around, like clones and phantasms. Oh smokescale have easiest time chasing players/mesmer and autostun seems like at important moments for you,its range is 240 and always reaching you,so you cant just run away from it.

I do feel like pets can be annoyingly hard to shake sometimes. Chasing and being little ankle biters, and CCing here and there.

Unlike clones, the pets don't automatically retarget, meaning there is a lot of downtime where the pet is simply unable to reach the mesmer to deal damage.Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.

Yes! I've always suspected this. Like as soon as stealth wears off they're coming right back. Like stop blowing my cover you little brat! :D Defeats the purpose of the target break.

If you aren't revealed by Sic Em, using a stealth cancels any channeled skills like Rapid Fire.L O L. I wont even read further... Since when stealth interrupt channelled skills,becase you want it ? After so many years...

Yeah I've seen people say RF tracks targets into stealth, but wasn't sure.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

If you aren't revealed by Sic Em, using a stealth cancels any channeled skills like Rapid Fire.L O L. I wont even read further... Since when stealth interrupt channelled skills,becase you want it ? After so many years...

Oops I was thinking of Smoke Assault.

Np, we all make mistakes. So stealth is still good for SA, but won't cancel other channels?

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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

If you aren't revealed by Sic Em, using a stealth cancels any channeled skills like Rapid Fire.L O L. I wont even read further... Since when stealth interrupt channelled skills,becase you want it ? After so many years...

Oops I was thinking of Smoke Assault.

Np, we all make mistakes. So stealth is still good for SA, but won't cancel other channels?I do feel like pets can be annoyingly hard to shake sometimes. Chasing and being little ankle biters, and CCing here and there.Yes! I've always suspected this. Like as soon as stealth wears off they're coming right back. Like stop blowing my cover you little brat! :D Defeats the purpose of the target break.

Yeah channeled skills like p/p 3 on thief, rapid fire, rifle 3 on warriors, pistol 4 on mesmers, etc. etc. don't get cancelled by stealth. Tracking skills like rev sword 3 get cancelled by stealth.

Running forward/strafing with swiftness makes it very hard for the pet to hit you. Also, if you teleport up and down terrain the pet will have to run the long way around to get to you.

He's wrong. If the pet attacks you after stealthing, it means the ranger targetted you and ordered it to attack again. Unlike mesmer clones, pets do not track after stealth.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:

If you aren't revealed by Sic Em, using a stealth cancels any channeled skills like Rapid Fire.L O L. I wont even read further... Since when stealth interrupt channelled skills,becase you want it ? After so many years...

Oops I was thinking of Smoke Assault.They most likely use it with sic em to oneboop you or emergency evade like OFK button. More over...for some reason thats de-target that ranger has... another stolen mesmer mechanic :wink:You didnt forgot to inform someone when they use smoke assault they have infinite follow range?;)
  1. Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.It is true. I highly doubt every ranger is instasighted me among all clones and gave it an order to attack me,especially when I'm behind a pillarYou're wrong. 100-0 burst by mesmers require absolutely 0 skill whatsoever. Clip 1 and 20 Skill? What takes 0 skill is LB ranger :joy:Berserk chrono with 2 mantras oneshotting potato zerk ranger taht didnt bother to use neither elite to revive/signet? I dont feel sympathy for that girl, sorry :joy: (even tho she could secure stomp on the necro lol).Damn how mesmer team is losing ?! 0 skill oneshot must be free winning,dem,such unfortunate
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@shadowpass.4236 said:

If you aren't revealed by Sic Em, using a stealth cancels any channeled skills like Rapid Fire.L O L. I wont even read further... Since when stealth interrupt channelled skills,becase you want it ? After so many years...

Oops I was thinking of Smoke Assault.

Np, we all make mistakes. So stealth is still good for SA, but won't cancel other channels?I do feel like pets can be annoyingly hard to shake sometimes. Chasing and being little ankle biters, and CCing here and there.Yes! I've always suspected this. Like as soon as stealth wears off they're coming right back. Like stop blowing my cover you little brat! :D Defeats the purpose of the target break.

Yeah channeled skills like p/p 3 on thief, rapid fire, rifle 3 on warriors, pistol 4 on mesmers, etc. etc. don't get cancelled by stealth. Tracking skills like rev sword 3 get cancelled by stealth.

Running forward/strafing with swiftness makes it very hard for the pet to hit you. Also, if you teleport up and down terrain the pet will have to run the long way around to get to you.

He's wrong. If the pet attacks you after stealthing, it means the ranger targetted you and ordered it to attack again. Unlike mesmer clones, pets do not track after stealth.

Got it. Thanks!

@praqtos.9035 said:

If you aren't revealed by Sic Em, using a stealth cancels any channeled skills like Rapid Fire.L O L. I wont even read further... Since when stealth interrupt channelled skills,becase you want it ? After so many years...

Oops I was thinking of Smoke Assault.They most likely use it with sic em to oneboop you or emergency evade like OFK button. More over...for some reason thats de-target that ranger has... another stolen mesmer mechanic :wink:You didnt forgot to inform someone when they use smoke assault they have infinite follow range?;)

Yeah I learned that SA followed me through Blink allowing the SLB to oneboop me at the end of the port. Stealth is best for SA.

  1. Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.It is true. I highly doubt every ranger is instasighted me among all clones and gave it an order to attack me,especially behind I'm behind a pillar

Maybe something that can be tested?

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@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

  1. Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.It is true. I highly doubt every ranger is instasighted me among all clones and gave it an order to attack me,especially behind I'm behind a pillar

Maybe something that can be tested?Found random theif, ordered pet to attack him, he goes stealth,pet attack random ppl, thief lose stealth, pet goes to attack thief without me doing anything. The same happened with a memser: he spawned 3 clones,I told pet to attack mesmer,after he lost stealth pet rushed to attack real one. Is this dude really play ranger as main ? I noticed this behaviour loooooooooooooooooooooong ago
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@praqtos.9035 said:

If you aren't revealed by Sic Em, using a stealth cancels any channeled skills like Rapid Fire.L O L. I wont even read further... Since when stealth interrupt channelled skills,becase you want it ? After so many years...

Oops I was thinking of Smoke Assault.They most likely use it with sic em to oneboop you or emergency evade like OFK button. More over...for some reason thats de-target that ranger has... another stolen mesmer mechanic :wink:You didnt forgot to inform someone when they use smoke assault they have infinite follow range?;)
  1. Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.It is true. I highly doubt every ranger is instasighted me among all clones and gave it an order to attack me,especially behind I'm behind a pillar?You're wrong. 100-0 burst by mesmers require absolutely 0 skill whatsoever. Clip 1 and 20 Skill? What takes 0 skill is LB ranger :joy:Berserk chrono with 2 mantras oneshotting potato zerk ranger taht didnt bother to use neither elite to revive/signet? I dont feel sympathy for that girl, sorry :joy: (even tho she could secure stomp on the necro lol).kitten how mesmer team is losing ?!
  1. Ranger doesn't have any de-target abilities aside from stealth.
  2. Rev sword 3 tracks through ports. However, since teleports are instant cast, it means that any player using SA must use it preemptively. If you blink while they are casting it, don't be surprised when they're still next to you afterwards.
  3. K
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@shadowpass.4236 said:

If you aren't revealed by Sic Em, using a stealth cancels any channeled skills like Rapid Fire.L O L. I wont even read further... Since when stealth interrupt channelled skills,becase you want it ? After so many years...

Oops I was thinking of Smoke Assault.They most likely use it with sic em to oneboop you or emergency evade like OFK button. More over...for some reason thats de-target that ranger has... another stolen mesmer mechanic :wink:You didnt forgot to inform someone when they use smoke assault they have infinite follow range?;)
  1. Not true. Pet automatically retarget on real mesmer as soon you he lose stealth and ignore clones, pet always know who is real mesmer.It is true. I highly doubt every ranger is instasighted me among all clones and gave it an order to attack me,especially behind I'm behind a pillar?You're wrong. 100-0 burst by mesmers require absolutely 0 skill whatsoever. Clip 1 and 20 Skill? What takes 0 skill is LB ranger :joy:Berserk chrono with 2 mantras oneshotting potato zerk ranger taht didnt bother to use neither elite to revive/signet? I dont feel sympathy for that girl, sorry :joy: (even tho she could secure stomp on the necro lol).kitten how mesmer team is losing ?!
  1. Ranger doesn't have any de-target abilities aside from stealth.
  2. Rev sword 3 tracks through ports. However, since teleports are instant cast, it means that any player using SA must use it preemptively. If you blink while they are casting it, don't be surprised when they're still next to you afterwards.
  3. KYou are wrong,yet again,what a surpise.... Ranger merged smoke assault is a detarget abilityI know it, hence why I said you should tell that to this not so experienced mesmer to not burn blinks while this sht is casted on you.
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