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How are things going to turn out for WvW if they keep going the direction they are?


Zexanima.7851

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More boons, more condi, more AoE, more damage, more visual clutter, more lag. More more more. It seems to me if WvW keeps heading the way it has been it'll soon be nigh impossible to intelligently read and react to what's going on in fights. I thought GW2 was more about doing things horizontally with diversity and variety. Why then is everything in WvW growing vertically? The mount was a good example of horizontal expansion but things like the mount stomp added to the verticality.

Some verticality isn't bad but it seems like Anet has just kind of opened the flood gate and let lose. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they decided to raise the level cap next expansion and introduce "mythic" gear. I know, I know, they said they would never do those things but isn't that what the new professions have been essentially? Things like FB and Scourge are not just different than core guard and necromancer, they're wayyyy better. Not marginally better but severally better.

I know this isn't news to anyone but I just want players (and anet) to think about what the game would look like if it continued changing the way it has. How long before they have to change how damage numbers are displayed because they are too big to read?

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@"Zexanima.7851" said:More boons, more condi,

Boons: This is a direct result of support being too good. Supports are keeping perma-might, perma-stab, perma-protection on their groups. The only way to really punch through this is frequent aoe corrupt, so you get ..Condi: But note that this isn't really "condi damage. The builds that are applying it are all power scourge. It's just a result of the corrupt. Playing actual condi would be suicide due to the high # of support scrappers around converting condi to boons every second. So then you run your own support scrappers to conver this condi to..Boons!: Now you have more boons. Now the enemy needs to respond with more corrupts! .. and so the cycle continues.

more AoE, more damage, more visual clutter, more lag.

This is a result of projectiles and single target damage being ineffective. A single reflect or projectile blocking bubble can counter projectiles from an entire zerg. That is 1 player countering 50+ with a single skill. With a good rotation, 4-5 players with bubbles can counter ALL incoming projectiles indefinitely. Thus, projectiles are bad (or even completely useless vs a very coordinated enemy). Single target damage is also ineffective because other classes do similar amounts of burst, but deal it in an aoe. This aoe - especially ranged aoe is always preferred because it can't be mitigated as easily.

things like FB and Scourge are not just different than core guard and necromancer, they're wayyyy better. Not marginally better but severally better.

Elite spec power creep has been a problem for years and years and years and they are only just now starting to address it. There is still a long way to go before core specs can compete on the same level as elite specs.

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@coro.3176 said:

@"Zexanima.7851" said:More boons, more condi,

Boons
: This is a direct result of support being too good. Supports are keeping perma-might, perma-stab, perma-protection on their groups. The only way to really punch through this is frequent aoe corrupt, so you get ..
Condi
: But note that this isn't really "
condi damage
. The builds that are applying it are all power scourge. It's just a result of the corrupt. Playing actual condi would be suicide due to the high # of support scrappers around converting condi to boons every second. So then you run your own support scrappers to conver this condi to..
Boons!
: Now you have more boons. Now the enemy needs to respond with more corrupts! .. and so the cycle continues.

You can never really be sure either what boons/condi you have or when they are going to get instantly corrupted/converted. There are really not a lot of tells to having a sand shade pop up under your feet or the guy next to you gets hit by devouring darkness. Don't get me wrong, there currently are ways to counter play this stuff but with the way things are going skills and effects are just going to increase in number and become more instant until there really is no counter play. It'll eventually just be two zergs diving each other dropping all their skills and whoever has more players/better luck will come out on top. It already is like that a good amount of the time

more AoE, more damage, more visual clutter, more lag.

This is a result of projectiles and single target damage being ineffective. A single reflect or projectile blocking bubble can counter projectiles from an entire zerg. That is 1 player countering 50+ with a single skill. With a good rotation, 4-5 players with bubbles can counter ALL incoming projectiles indefinitely. Thus, projectiles are bad (or even completely useless vs a very coordinated enemy). Single target damage is also ineffective because other classes do similar amounts of burst, but deal it in an aoe. This aoe - especially ranged aoe is always preferred because it can't be mitigated as easily.

Would it be better for all AoE ranged skills to be fast moving projectiles that create an AoE upon landing? Then put a block cap on all projectile blocks/reflects? That way there is counter play to AoE bombs aside from "bait and avoid the pile of red"

things like FB and Scourge are not just different than core guard and necromancer, they're wayyyy better. Not marginally better but severally better.

Elite spec power creep has been a problem for years and years and years and they are only just now starting to address it. There is still a long way to go before core specs can compete on the same level as elite specs.

We really wont know if they are addressing it or not until they release the next elite specs. For all we know the "trade offs" could just be a way to make room and promote the next elite specs which will contain the same power creep problems. It would really be nice if Anet would keep the players up to date on their vision of the game. Something clear and concise with reasoning for their decisions.

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@"Zexanima.7851" said:

Some verticality isn't bad but it seems like Anet has just kind of opened the flood gate and let lose. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they decided to raise the level cap next expansion and introduce "mythic" gear. I know, I know, they said they would never do those things but isn't that what the new professions have been essentially? T

Here is the thing. They actually have raised the level cap via "mastery rank" in WvW. They added the mount, by adding gliding, fricken merchant access, and most of the combat-based masteries. They raise the cap every iteration that includes using this short sighted system. This is g'awful for attracting new players since you need about 90-120 ranks on the mount (the last two aren't "necessary") another 60 or so in gliding (all of them are actually needed to stay competitive, albeit the second rank is crap). It's really backwards as it tells the new players, "Don't bother using siege since you don't have mastery and the 'vets' will want to take over." I don't care that there is a rank to grind up, but grinding mastery rank points (that offer an actual combat advantage) in a Pvp-ish mode seems like a bad idea to me.

D:

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@displayname.8315 said:Never played wow but the PvP looks cool. Guys think classic will be worth a subscription in August? Warmode or whatever looks cool and assume some guilds are basically fights guilds or hope so.

You'll find WoW's combat to be a regression after gw2. No Dodge, much less value for teamwork other than healer+dps and as pure open world, better take a month off work to level cuz the twinks they are a'comin fast.

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@displayname.8315 said:Never played wow but the PvP looks cool. Guys think classic will be worth a subscription in August? Warmode or whatever looks cool and assume some guilds are basically fights guilds or hope so.

Yeah, Vanilla WoW PvP was so great that Blizzard radically changed it patch after patch, year over year.......

Rose Tinted Glasses + Ignorance + Grass is Always Greener = a lot of players with disappointment in their future.

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How will things turn out? The mode just being a waste of time. Itl turn into a PvEr's offtime activity.

Vanilla WoW PvP will probably be what you aim for if you want actual good PvP. Their battlegrounds were an amazing PvP experience...unless there were level x9 twinks in your matches lol.

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@iKeostuKen.2738 said:How will things turn out? The mode just being a waste of time. Itl turn into a PvEr's offtime activity.

Vanilla WoW PvP will probably be what you aim for if you want actual good PvP. Their battlegrounds were an amazing PvP experience...unless there were level x9 twinks in your matches lol.

Yeah the battlegrounds thing sounds interesting and there's bound to be more people playing than the ghost towns anet has created with their content. Enjoyed alot of EQ2 which was very similar pve wise.

Hope the teamwork and GvG style gameplay is prominent like it was in pre-HoT WvW. Haven't seen much streaming of battlegrounds but I guess it's early.

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@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:vanilla gw2 wouldn't be too bad for wvw tbh. prob would eliminate some of the power creep but not all of it.

That would be a good use for EotM. Core only allowed, nothing relative to the expansions allowed.

But muh revenant???Thats one of the reasons they said they wont make a vanilla event... Because rev player would feel left out.

@displayname.8315 said:Never played wow but the PvP looks cool. Guys think classic will be worth a subscription in August? Warmode or whatever looks cool and assume some guilds are basically fights guilds or hope so.

Tbh wow fights look so incredibly boring, especially pvp looks clunky af.

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@RedShark.9548 said:

@"displayname.8315" said:Never played wow but the PvP looks cool. Guys think classic will be worth a subscription in August? Warmode or whatever looks cool and assume some guilds are basically fights guilds or hope so.

Tbh wow fights look so incredibly boring, especially pvp looks clunky af.

It doesn't have the 100% swiftness and boon uptime sure. The pacing allows for more cerebral play tho and less faceroll button mashing, perma dodging, perma invuns.. that's nice. Build choices seem to matter more instead of picking the most broken class between "balance" patches.

Vanilla WvW was probably better tho..

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@displayname.8315 said:

@displayname.8315 said:Never played wow but the PvP looks cool. Guys think classic will be worth a subscription in August? Warmode or whatever looks cool and assume some guilds are basically fights guilds or hope so.

Tbh wow fights look so incredibly boring, especially pvp looks clunky af.

It doesn't have the 100% swiftness and boon uptime sure. The pacing allows for more cerebral play tho and less faceroll button mashing, perma dodging, perma invuns.. that's nice. Build choices seem to matter more instead of picking the most broken class between "balance" patches.

Vanilla WvW was probably better tho..

Im not talking about boon uptimes etc.The gameplay itself just looks slow, clunky and boring.

Gw2 just has the flowing animations that go into each other so smooth, ive yet to see any other game doing it like that (and dont even mention BDO, ive played it, its not good)

Dodging spells on your own, not hoping for lucky dodges or resists based on stats is just so good, and coming out of a dodge, instantly casting the next spell, without awkwardly waiting for the animation to finish completely is awesome, i cant play any other mmo anymore because ive gotten so used to gw2, that those "oldschool" movements just annoy and bore me

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