PvP Mesmer Out of META

Jack.8124 · June 10, 2019

According to metabattle, mesmer doesn't appear in the first 19 builds for pvp (obviusly, not in meta section and not in great section)Mesmer is completely out of meta, we think we need a big rebalance for mesmer...DPS mesmer is not able to play in high levelCondi mesmer doesn't do damage anymoreBunker mesmer is completely getting oneshots by dual revenantsHealing mesmer is a jokeBoon generation mesmer doesn't existThe result... Mesmer is completely out of everything for pvp...

Sorry for my poor English guys, I hope you understand it..

Alatar.7364 · June 10, 2019

@Jack.8124 said:
@"Eddbopkins.2630" said:Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken.

Taygus.4571 · June 10, 2019

Poor you. Druid is not even listed anymore...

mesmer is still good, you just have to be more careful.

Vagrant.7206 · June 10, 2019

I still see mirages and chronos all the time in plat 1/2.

Crab Fear.1624 · June 10, 2019

same tier as daredevil lol

Tayga.3192 · June 10, 2019

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....

It's not sarcasm. Most good mesmers left pvp or changed mains.

Solori.6025 · June 10, 2019

Honestly OP, people would rather not have to think when they pvp. If it cant be button mashed to death then it is too good.Like as soon as a profession makes you have to think, it's immediately OP and needs to be gutted. It's why in 2019 we still have people complaining about clones.

ZeteCommander.4937 · June 10, 2019

It's not just you who think so.

Twilight Tempest.7584 · June 10, 2019

It would help if the currently power-crept stuff like Holo, SB, Rev, SLB, Scrapper, and maybe Scourge and FB were toned down. I would prefer reverse-power-creeping over more power-creeping as a means to level the playing field.

Vieux P.1238 · June 10, 2019

Mesmers will be good when the devs nerf it to the point when it pops & die like it's clone. It's coming ...I got to admit.. it is close to next to useless vs most classes.

Multicolorhipster.9751 · June 11, 2019

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:It would help if the currently power-crept stuff like Holo, SB, Rev, SLB, Scrapper, and maybe Scourge and FB were toned down. I would prefer reverse-power-creeping over more power-creeping as a means to level the playing field.

^^^^^ Honestly people could stand to learn a thing or two from this.

Rather than giving Mesmer a superbuff and putting it back into a state where people will complain about it, perhaps the focus should be on bringing all the other side-noders down with it to the level known as balanced.

Xstein.2187 · June 11, 2019

I don't even care about overall balance.FIRST they need to:

Fix the blatant biasses present in the game. God, they are supposed to be professionalshttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74289/anets-favourite-child/p1.
Bring "Trait Choice" back to the mesmer trait lines.Right now there are obvious 'trait winners' and obvious 'dead traits' as well. You literally don't even need to make trait decisions when playing a mesmer anymore. They are basically made for you as long as you know how to read what the traits do and are familiar with the game.This wasn't always the case..
Make mesmer fun to play again..
Undo core mesmer trait nerfs since core mesmer was never meta since before HoT and never the problem to begin with, make the correct balancing decisions that should have been made a long time ago, and bring all the elites in the game in line with the cores..
Quite listening to streamers who don't know what they are talking about or present themselves as knowing more about a class then they do.
.
Bring back the people you banned or quite who wouldn't have been banned or quite if mesmer was handled correctly in the past to begin with..
Quite balancing based on popular vote or what is perceived as 'fun'. Fun doesn't equal balanced. You can make changes without lowering how powerful a class is..
Quite making broken promises or if you do so, apologize."Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect" my butt.https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/specializations

mortrialus.3062 · June 11, 2019

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:
@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:It would help if the currently power-crept stuff like Holo, SB, Rev, SLB, Scrapper, and maybe Scourge and FB were toned down. I would prefer reverse-power-creeping over more power-creeping as a means to level the playing field.

^^^^^ Honestly people could stand to learn a thing or two from this.

Rather than giving Mesmer a superbuff and putting it back into a state where people will complain about it, perhaps the focus should be on bringing all the other side-noders down with it to the level known as balanced.

That would require nerfing condition cleanses that have been power crept since Path of Fire across most classes. And I genuinely think a large majority of players do not want to have to think about condition damage as a damage archetype they need to be prepared for. There are multiple builds just from their trait selection right now that are just hard immune to condition damage as an archetype. There aren't builds are nigh invulnerable to power damage, there shouldn't be builds that invulnerable to condition damage.

Right now Power Greatsword and mantras are the only viable builds for mesmer, and those have always been more toxic from a design perspective than Condi Mirage was.

Zawn.9647 · June 11, 2019

@"Xstein.2187" said:I don't even care about overall balance.FIRST they need to:
Fix the blatant biasses present in the game. God, they are supposed to be professionalshttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74289/anets-favourite-child/p1.
Bring "Trait Choice" back to the mesmer trait lines.Right now there are obvious 'trait winners' and obvious 'dead traits' as well. You literally don't even need to make trait decisions when playing a mesmer anymore. They are basically made for you as long as you know how to read what the traits do.This wasn't always the case..
Make mesmer fun to play again..
Undo core mesmer trait nerfs since core mesmer was never meta since before HoT, make the correct balancing decisions that should have been made a long time ago, and bring all the elites in the game in line with the cores..
Quite listening to streamers who don't know what they are talking about or present themselves as knowing more about a class then they do.
.
Bring back the people you banned or quite who wouldn't have been banned or quite if mesmer was handled correctly in the past to begin with..
Quite making broken promises or if you do so, apologize."Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect" my butt.

Yeah the problem with #3 is that it makes unfun for everyone elseAnd about #5 you can listen from Tournament of Legends champions as well... Sindrener also thinks mesmers were ridiculous

Xstein.2187 · June 11, 2019

@Zawn.9647 said:
@"Xstein.2187" said:I don't even care about overall balance.
FIRST
they need to:
Fix the blatant biasses present in the game. God, they are supposed to be professionals
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74289/anets-favourite-child/p1
.
Bring
"Trait Choice"
back to the mesmer trait lines.Right now there are obvious 'trait winners' and obvious 'dead traits' as well. You literally don't even need to make trait decisions when playing a mesmer anymore. They are basically made for you as long as you know how to read what the traits do.This wasn't always the case..
Make mesmer fun to play again..
Undo core mesmer trait nerfs since core mesmer was never meta since before HoT, make the correct balancing decisions that should have been made a long time ago, and bring all the elites in the game in line with the cores..
Quite listening to streamers who don't know what they are talking about or present themselves as knowing more about a class then they do.
.
Bring back the people you banned or quite who wouldn't have been banned or quite if mesmer was handled correctly in the past to begin with..
Quite making broken promises or if you do so, apologize."Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect" my butt.

Yeah the problem with #3 is that it makes unfun for everyone elseAnd about #5 you can listen from Tournament of Legends champions as well... Sindrener also thinks mesmers were ridiculous

I'm not saying that it wasn't unfun to fight against or still isn't unfun to fight againstI'm just saying right now mesmer (not just mirage) is not fun to play and probably
STILL
isn't fun to fight against as well. Just because a class is unfun to fight against does not automatically mean its fun to play or vice versa, these are exclusive issues.. So no, that is not a problem with #3.

I didn't say that all streamers were incorrect. Steamers are free to make whatever comments they want, balancing decisions just shouldn't be made based on that(unless the streamer uses data-but then it should be based on the data presented). To do so without using data would be an appeal to authority logical fallacy. It doesn't mean such authority is always wrong. However, that doesn't mean using authority for decisions on its own accord or just because they said something isn't fallacious reasoning.

Paradoxoglanis.1904 · June 11, 2019

People stream this game?

TorQ.7041 · June 11, 2019

@Alatar.7364 said:
@Jack.8124 said:
@"Eddbopkins.2630" said:Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

For the most part Mesmer is so called

"out of meta"

because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable

(some of its Meta builds at least)

just no longer broken.

Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

TorQ.7041 · June 11, 2019

@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:
@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:It would help if the currently power-crept stuff like Holo, SB, Rev, SLB, Scrapper, and maybe Scourge and FB were toned down. I would prefer reverse-power-creeping over more power-creeping as a means to level the playing field.

^^^^^ Honestly people could stand to learn a thing or two from this.

Rather than giving Mesmer a superbuff and putting it back into a state where people will complain about it, perhaps the focus should be on bringing all the other side-noders down with it to the level known as balanced.

That would require nerfing condition cleanses that have been power crept since Path of Fire across most classes. And I genuinely think a large majority of players do not want to have to think about condition damage as a damage archetype they need to be prepared for. There are multiple builds just from their trait selection right now that are just hard immune to condition damage as an archetype. There aren't builds are nigh invulnerable to power damage, there shouldn't be builds that invulnerable to condition damage.

Right now Power Greatsword and mantras are the only viable builds for mesmer, and those have always been more toxic from a design perspective than Condi Mirage was.

I don't have a problem with Condi dmg. If it hits me and I get damaged but only it's over time,Ok that's fair. But it's rather every clone does condi. It's to the point where even if I can dodge all the key skills I would still get Condi on me. Confusion also prevents me from doing anything because it would make me kill myself. So there are 2 options still and do nothing and die or leave.

I have absolutely no problem with power mirage because it takes skill. Power mirage clones don't do much passive damage even with split surge. You can see what he's going to mirror blade and dodge. It actually takes skill. Learning where the mirage is on the map and dodging his one shot takes skill, at th same time learning position to use a 1 shot takes skill. 1 shot mirage is absolutely not toxic. It's basically on the other spectrum of skill. Being power mes is only good in the hands of some one skilled.

Spawning clones then passively using invur,stealth, port. And wait for your opponent to die from passive ticks from clones takes no skill. You can cycle through buttons to sustain for a long time.

Condi mirage is can still be played only when u see that the other team doesn't have prot Holo or scrapper. It still has advantages over warrior and other classes that doesn't have consistent cleanse.

mortrialus.3062 · June 11, 2019

@TorQ.7041 said:
@Alatar.7364 said:
@Jack.8124 said:
@"Eddbopkins.2630" said:Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.

I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post...

For the most part Mesmer is so called

"out of meta"

because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable

(some of its Meta builds at least)

just no longer broken.

Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo.

The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave.

It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable.

Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead.

It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals.

This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort?

What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now.

Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just chose to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore.

I don't have a problem with Condi dmg. If it hits me and I get damaged but only it's over time,Ok that's fair. But it's rather every clone does condi. It's to the point where even if I can dodge all the key skills I would still get Condi on me.

If you dodge all the key skills against a power build you will still take power damage from minor sources, chip damage, and lower priority skills to avoid. The only exception is if you completely stunlock or global a player. Why should condition damage builds be restricted to only doing damage with their biggest skills and 0 damage from everything else in their kit?

TorQ.7041 · June 11, 2019

@Vagrant.7206 said:I still see mirages and chronos all the time in plat 1/2.

Agreed. I see them all the time. I am forced to play scrapper to deal with it.

TorQ.7041 · June 11, 2019

@mortrialus.3062 said:
@TorQ.7041 said:
@Alatar.7364 said:
@Jack.8124 said:
@"Eddbopkins.2630" said:Omg ur outa of meta for the 1st time in 7 years? Cant play this game no more....#sarcasm....how about u main a ele then u have the right to complain about being out of meta.