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Should Downed Skills Be Interruptable?

Equinox.1463

By Equinox.1463
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praqtos.9035

praqtos.9035

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:They already are interruptable. Only certain CC skills can interrupt them: launches and floats.

Dazes work too.. I quite often use daze to stop a Guards knockback while stomping.Sounds like bull*ht tbh. Pretty sure nothing except launch stop it (not sure about float because how exclusive this CC is)

@bravan.3876 said:Downstate skills were not interruptable (except for cc that moves the downed body like guardian hammer knockback), only show the interrupt symbol and proc interrupt traits but lately i even got a 15 secs powerblock cd on one of my downstate skills (not autoattack). Maybe there is something bugging atm?As it was written before, you get "interrupted" but nothing really happen, powerblock is triggered because you CAN be interrupted but .... not really interrpted....so its proc'd 15s cd...if this makes sense to you

Best way to see it for yourself is to be a Mesmer and use F3 on a downed Guard..It will stop the guards down 2 skill and secure a stomp.

Have been doing this since game release.Then you are hella delusional if you really do it since release, it did not interrupt dowend skill, neither guardian,neither warrior, doesnt do kitten to anyone or anything.

It works fine for me.

I dont appreciate your slander either as a head up, Im just sharing what I know to be true from experience.

I could go in to more detail and explain that Daze shatters work on downs but not mantra dazes, but my point was centered around F3.As I said before, before making ridiculous wrong claim = test it yourself as you are wrong.Before making MY post I did test it with guardian F3 and warrior hammer toss, your "experience" doesnt match neither MY own experience or my tests

Well im sorry that's the case for you but for me it has worked just fine for 6 years.It never did work on downedstate skills, you never could interrupt it with anything but launch. Want me to post a screenshot where I used f3 into his knock and I still got pushed back? xD

I dont need a screenshot. Ive got 6 years of seeing it happen.

I already hinted in a previous post that not all dazes work too. For all we know there could be a weird interaction with traits such as powerblock or lost time, same issue Berserker currently has with a certain trait set up boosting rampage toughness by over 1k.The only CC that interrupt dowendskills is a launch.I did additional test with power block, it does stop skills midway because it does put ICD instant so you cant use a skill that has 15s cd. I never thought about this trait as worth using as mental anguish had more value to oneshotting targets rather than trying to interrupt something through stability spam(in the past). I'm not sure if its really interrupted downedstate targets years ago as complain about it came recently and became more obvious with sword ambush on mirage.Mantra daze and F3 are equal if you are interested.

Ive always been a power block player on Mes which is why Ive been seeing it and you haven't.Doesnt mean daze magically work on downed skills for every class, power block case is an exception.Soooooooooooo, for @bravan.3876 you can confirm that since release it worked and its not a bug caused by latest power block nerf?And more over any player that aware his CC is useless against downedstate skills wont waste crucial CC, especially when you could secure stomp with any shatter.
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sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

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@praqtos.9035 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:They already are interruptable. Only certain CC skills can interrupt them: launches and floats.

Dazes work too.. I quite often use daze to stop a Guards knockback while stomping.Sounds like bull*ht tbh. Pretty sure nothing except launch stop it (not sure about float because how exclusive this CC is)

@bravan.3876 said:Downstate skills were not interruptable (except for cc that moves the downed body like guardian hammer knockback), only show the interrupt symbol and proc interrupt traits but lately i even got a 15 secs powerblock cd on one of my downstate skills (not autoattack). Maybe there is something bugging atm?As it was written before, you get "interrupted" but nothing really happen, powerblock is triggered because you CAN be interrupted but .... not really interrpted....so its proc'd 15s cd...if this makes sense to you

Best way to see it for yourself is to be a Mesmer and use F3 on a downed Guard..It will stop the guards down 2 skill and secure a stomp.

Have been doing this since game release.Then you are hella delusional if you really do it since release, it did not interrupt dowend skill, neither guardian,neither warrior, doesnt do kitten to anyone or anything.

It works fine for me.

I dont appreciate your slander either as a head up, Im just sharing what I know to be true from experience.

I could go in to more detail and explain that Daze shatters work on downs but not mantra dazes, but my point was centered around F3.As I said before, before making ridiculous wrong claim = test it yourself as you are wrong.Before making MY post I did test it with guardian F3 and warrior hammer toss, your "experience" doesnt match neither MY own experience or my tests

Well im sorry that's the case for you but for me it has worked just fine for 6 years.It never did work on downedstate skills, you never could interrupt it with anything but launch. Want me to post a screenshot where I used f3 into his knock and I still got pushed back? xD

I dont need a screenshot. Ive got 6 years of seeing it happen.

I already hinted in a previous post that not all dazes work too. For all we know there could be a weird interaction with traits such as powerblock or lost time, same issue Berserker currently has with a certain trait set up boosting rampage toughness by over 1k.The only CC that interrupt dowendskills is a launch.I did additional test with power block, it does stop skills midway because it does put ICD instant so you cant use a skill that has 15s cd. I never thought about this trait as worth using as mental anguish had more value to oneshotting targets rather than trying to interrupt something through stability spam(in the past). I'm not sure if its really interrupted downedstate targets years ago as complain about it came recently and became more obvious with sword ambush on mirage.Mantra daze and F3 are equal if you are interested.

Ive always been a power block player on Mes which is why Ive been seeing it and you haven't.Doesnt mean daze magically work on downed skills for every class, power block case is an exception.Soooooooooooo, for @bravan.3876 you can confirm that since release it worked and its not a bug caused by latest power block nerf?And more over any player that aware his CC is useless against downedstate skills wont waste crucial CC, especially when you could secure stomp with any shatter.

It's not the only exception but okay, I'm just glad you were able to see an example for yourself as to why daze works. :smile:

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praqtos.9035

praqtos.9035

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:They already are interruptable. Only certain CC skills can interrupt them: launches and floats.

Dazes work too.. I quite often use daze to stop a Guards knockback while stomping.Sounds like bull*ht tbh. Pretty sure nothing except launch stop it (not sure about float because how exclusive this CC is)

@bravan.3876 said:Downstate skills were not interruptable (except for cc that moves the downed body like guardian hammer knockback), only show the interrupt symbol and proc interrupt traits but lately i even got a 15 secs powerblock cd on one of my downstate skills (not autoattack). Maybe there is something bugging atm?As it was written before, you get "interrupted" but nothing really happen, powerblock is triggered because you CAN be interrupted but .... not really interrpted....so its proc'd 15s cd...if this makes sense to you

Best way to see it for yourself is to be a Mesmer and use F3 on a downed Guard..It will stop the guards down 2 skill and secure a stomp.

Have been doing this since game release.Then you are hella delusional if you really do it since release, it did not interrupt dowend skill, neither guardian,neither warrior, doesnt do kitten to anyone or anything.

It works fine for me.

I dont appreciate your slander either as a head up, Im just sharing what I know to be true from experience.

I could go in to more detail and explain that Daze shatters work on downs but not mantra dazes, but my point was centered around F3.As I said before, before making ridiculous wrong claim = test it yourself as you are wrong.Before making MY post I did test it with guardian F3 and warrior hammer toss, your "experience" doesnt match neither MY own experience or my tests

Well im sorry that's the case for you but for me it has worked just fine for 6 years.It never did work on downedstate skills, you never could interrupt it with anything but launch. Want me to post a screenshot where I used f3 into his knock and I still got pushed back? xD

I dont need a screenshot. Ive got 6 years of seeing it happen.

I already hinted in a previous post that not all dazes work too. For all we know there could be a weird interaction with traits such as powerblock or lost time, same issue Berserker currently has with a certain trait set up boosting rampage toughness by over 1k.The only CC that interrupt dowendskills is a launch.I did additional test with power block, it does stop skills midway because it does put ICD instant so you cant use a skill that has 15s cd. I never thought about this trait as worth using as mental anguish had more value to oneshotting targets rather than trying to interrupt something through stability spam(in the past). I'm not sure if its really interrupted downedstate targets years ago as complain about it came recently and became more obvious with sword ambush on mirage.Mantra daze and F3 are equal if you are interested.

Ive always been a power block player on Mes which is why Ive been seeing it and you haven't.Doesnt mean daze magically work on downed skills for every class, power block case is an exception.Soooooooooooo, for @bravan.3876 you can confirm that since release it worked and its not a bug caused by latest power block nerf?And more over any player that aware his CC is useless against downedstate skills wont waste crucial CC, especially when you could secure stomp with any shatter.

It's not the only exception but okay, I'm just glad you were able to see an example for yourself as to why daze works. :smile:Its work because power block made an exception. Not as you said its work all the time or at least implied, your initial post never included information how its supposed to work, so I had to run multiple tests to figure the only case.Try to prove me wrongI could go in to more detail and explain that Daze shatters work on downs but not mantra dazes, but my point was centered around F3.From your post, go ahead, I'm all ears
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sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

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@praqtos.9035 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:They already are interruptable. Only certain CC skills can interrupt them: launches and floats.

Dazes work too.. I quite often use daze to stop a Guards knockback while stomping.Sounds like bull*ht tbh. Pretty sure nothing except launch stop it (not sure about float because how exclusive this CC is)

@bravan.3876 said:Downstate skills were not interruptable (except for cc that moves the downed body like guardian hammer knockback), only show the interrupt symbol and proc interrupt traits but lately i even got a 15 secs powerblock cd on one of my downstate skills (not autoattack). Maybe there is something bugging atm?As it was written before, you get "interrupted" but nothing really happen, powerblock is triggered because you CAN be interrupted but .... not really interrpted....so its proc'd 15s cd...if this makes sense to you

Best way to see it for yourself is to be a Mesmer and use F3 on a downed Guard..It will stop the guards down 2 skill and secure a stomp.

Have been doing this since game release.Then you are hella delusional if you really do it since release, it did not interrupt dowend skill, neither guardian,neither warrior, doesnt do kitten to anyone or anything.

It works fine for me.

I dont appreciate your slander either as a head up, Im just sharing what I know to be true from experience.

I could go in to more detail and explain that Daze shatters work on downs but not mantra dazes, but my point was centered around F3.As I said before, before making ridiculous wrong claim = test it yourself as you are wrong.Before making MY post I did test it with guardian F3 and warrior hammer toss, your "experience" doesnt match neither MY own experience or my tests

Well im sorry that's the case for you but for me it has worked just fine for 6 years.It never did work on downedstate skills, you never could interrupt it with anything but launch. Want me to post a screenshot where I used f3 into his knock and I still got pushed back? xD

I dont need a screenshot. Ive got 6 years of seeing it happen.

I already hinted in a previous post that not all dazes work too. For all we know there could be a weird interaction with traits such as powerblock or lost time, same issue Berserker currently has with a certain trait set up boosting rampage toughness by over 1k.The only CC that interrupt dowendskills is a launch.I did additional test with power block, it does stop skills midway because it does put ICD instant so you cant use a skill that has 15s cd. I never thought about this trait as worth using as mental anguish had more value to oneshotting targets rather than trying to interrupt something through stability spam(in the past). I'm not sure if its really interrupted downedstate targets years ago as complain about it came recently and became more obvious with sword ambush on mirage.Mantra daze and F3 are equal if you are interested.

Ive always been a power block player on Mes which is why Ive been seeing it and you haven't.Doesnt mean daze magically work on downed skills for every class, power block case is an exception.Soooooooooooo, for @bravan.3876 you can confirm that since release it worked and its not a bug caused by latest power block nerf?And more over any player that aware his CC is useless against downedstate skills wont waste crucial CC, especially when you could secure stomp with any shatter.

It's not the only exception but okay, I'm just glad you were able to see an example for yourself as to why daze works. :smile:Its work because power block made an exception. Not as you said its work all the time or at least implied, your initial post never included information how its supposed to work, so I had to run multiple tests to figure the only case.Try to prove me wrongI could go in to more detail and explain that Daze shatters work on downs but not mantra dazes, but my point was centered around F3.From your post, go ahead, I'm all ears

apparently you aren't all ears or you would see why your entire comment just now was useless.

Ive made my point, you've called it out as bs and since found out its actually true. You have found 1 example where daze works but doesnt mean its the only one.

To conclude, daze works on downed targets.I know you'll argue again but this is just a moment where you learn something new everyday.

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praqtos.9035

praqtos.9035

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:They already are interruptable. Only certain CC skills can interrupt them: launches and floats.

Dazes work too.. I quite often use daze to stop a Guards knockback while stomping.Sounds like bull*ht tbh. Pretty sure nothing except launch stop it (not sure about float because how exclusive this CC is)

@bravan.3876 said:Downstate skills were not interruptable (except for cc that moves the downed body like guardian hammer knockback), only show the interrupt symbol and proc interrupt traits but lately i even got a 15 secs powerblock cd on one of my downstate skills (not autoattack). Maybe there is something bugging atm?As it was written before, you get "interrupted" but nothing really happen, powerblock is triggered because you CAN be interrupted but .... not really interrpted....so its proc'd 15s cd...if this makes sense to you

Best way to see it for yourself is to be a Mesmer and use F3 on a downed Guard..It will stop the guards down 2 skill and secure a stomp.

Have been doing this since game release.Then you are hella delusional if you really do it since release, it did not interrupt dowend skill, neither guardian,neither warrior, doesnt do kitten to anyone or anything.

It works fine for me.

I dont appreciate your slander either as a head up, Im just sharing what I know to be true from experience.

I could go in to more detail and explain that Daze shatters work on downs but not mantra dazes, but my point was centered around F3.As I said before, before making ridiculous wrong claim = test it yourself as you are wrong.Before making MY post I did test it with guardian F3 and warrior hammer toss, your "experience" doesnt match neither MY own experience or my tests

Well im sorry that's the case for you but for me it has worked just fine for 6 years.It never did work on downedstate skills, you never could interrupt it with anything but launch. Want me to post a screenshot where I used f3 into his knock and I still got pushed back? xD

I dont need a screenshot. Ive got 6 years of seeing it happen.

I already hinted in a previous post that not all dazes work too. For all we know there could be a weird interaction with traits such as powerblock or lost time, same issue Berserker currently has with a certain trait set up boosting rampage toughness by over 1k.The only CC that interrupt dowendskills is a launch.I did additional test with power block, it does stop skills midway because it does put ICD instant so you cant use a skill that has 15s cd. I never thought about this trait as worth using as mental anguish had more value to oneshotting targets rather than trying to interrupt something through stability spam(in the past). I'm not sure if its really interrupted downedstate targets years ago as complain about it came recently and became more obvious with sword ambush on mirage.Mantra daze and F3 are equal if you are interested.

Ive always been a power block player on Mes which is why Ive been seeing it and you haven't.Doesnt mean daze magically work on downed skills for every class, power block case is an exception.Soooooooooooo, for @bravan.3876 you can confirm that since release it worked and its not a bug caused by latest power block nerf?And more over any player that aware his CC is useless against downedstate skills wont waste crucial CC, especially when you could secure stomp with any shatter.

It's not the only exception but okay, I'm just glad you were able to see an example for yourself as to why daze works. :smile:Its work because power block made an exception. Not as you said its work all the time or at least implied, your initial post never included information how its supposed to work, so I had to run multiple tests to figure the only case.Try to prove me wrongI could go in to more detail and explain that Daze shatters work on downs but not mantra dazes, but my point was centered around F3.From your post, go ahead, I'm all ears

apparently you aren't all ears or you would see why your entire comment just now was useless.

Ive made my point, you've called it out as bs and since found out its actually true. You have found 1 example where daze works but doesnt mean its the only one.

To conclude, daze works on downed targets.I know you'll argue again but this is just a moment where you learn something new everyday.Its worked out recently because they probably broke something with recent change on PB, its worked only in 1 case... thats you insist its more than 1 unique case with special trait. Whatever, you wont accept the fact that you are wrong, I'll drop it ;)
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Equinox.1463

Equinox.1463

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:They already are interruptable. Only certain CC skills can interrupt them: launches and floats.

Dazes work too.. I quite often use daze to stop a Guards knockback while stomping.Sounds like bull*ht tbh. Pretty sure nothing except launch stop it (not sure about float because how exclusive this CC is)

@"bravan.3876" said:Downstate skills were not interruptable (except for cc that moves the downed body like guardian hammer knockback), only show the interrupt symbol and proc interrupt traits but lately i even got a 15 secs powerblock cd on one of my downstate skills (not autoattack). Maybe there is something bugging atm?As it was written before, you get "interrupted" but nothing really happen, powerblock is triggered because you CAN be interrupted but .... not really interrpted....so its proc'd 15s cd...if this makes sense to you

Best way to see it for yourself is to be a Mesmer and use F3 on a downed Guard..It will stop the guards down 2 skill and secure a stomp.

Have been doing this since game release.Then you are hella delusional if you really do it since release, it did not interrupt dowend skill, neither guardian,neither warrior, doesnt do kitten to anyone or anything.

It works fine for me.

I dont appreciate your slander either as a head up, Im just sharing what I know to be true from experience.

I could go in to more detail and explain that Daze shatters work on downs but not mantra dazes, but my point was centered around F3.As I said before, before making ridiculous wrong claim = test it yourself as you are wrong.Before making MY post I did test it with guardian F3 and warrior hammer toss, your "experience" doesnt match neither MY own experience or my tests

Well im sorry that's the case for you but for me it has worked just fine for 6 years.It never did work on downedstate skills, you never could interrupt it with anything but launch. Want me to post a screenshot where I used f3 into his knock and I still got pushed back? xD

I dont need a screenshot. Ive got 6 years of seeing it happen.

I already hinted in a previous post that not all dazes work too. For all we know there could be a weird interaction with traits such as powerblock or lost time, same issue Berserker currently has with a certain trait set up boosting rampage toughness by over 1k.The only CC that interrupt dowendskills is a launch.I did additional test with power block, it does stop skills midway because it does put ICD instant so you cant use a skill that has 15s cd. I never thought about this trait as worth using as mental anguish had more value to oneshotting targets rather than trying to interrupt something through stability spam(in the past). I'm not sure if its really interrupted downedstate targets years ago as complain about it came recently and became more obvious with sword ambush on mirage.Mantra daze and F3 are equal if you are interested.

Ive always been a power block player on Mes which is why Ive been seeing it and you haven't.Doesnt mean daze magically work on downed skills for every class, power block case is an exception.Soooooooooooo, for @"bravan.3876" you can confirm that since release it worked and its not a bug caused by latest power block nerf?And more over any player that aware his CC is useless against downedstate skills wont waste crucial CC, especially when you could secure stomp with any shatter.

It's not the only exception but okay, I'm just glad you were able to see an example for yourself as to why daze works. :smile:Its work because power block made an exception. Not as you said its work all the time or at least implied, your initial post never included information how its supposed to work, so I had to run multiple tests to figure the only case.Try to prove me wrongI could go in to more detail and explain that Daze shatters work on downs but not mantra dazes, but my point was centered around F3.From your post, go ahead, I'm all ears

apparently you aren't all ears or you would see why your entire comment just now was useless.

Ive made my point, you've called it out as bs and since found out its actually true. You have found 1 example where daze works but doesnt mean its the only one.

To conclude, daze works on downed targets.I know you'll argue again but this is just a moment where you learn something new everyday.

That passive aggressivity though...

Dazes do not work like they would on "not downed" bodies since you'll see the "interrupt" text-effect whilst the skill is still fully cast afterwards. F3 do not work either... at least from my experiences. As stated, you'll see the interrupt text, but the skill is still casted fully, without alterations, afterwards. Seen it done on both the receiving and giving side.

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praqtos.9035

praqtos.9035

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@DigiQWill.6378 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:They already are interruptable. Only certain CC skills can interrupt them: launches and floats.

Dazes work too.. I quite often use daze to stop a Guards knockback while stomping.Sounds like bull*ht tbh. Pretty sure nothing except launch stop it (not sure about float because how exclusive this CC is)

@"bravan.3876" said:Downstate skills were not interruptable (except for cc that moves the downed body like guardian hammer knockback), only show the interrupt symbol and proc interrupt traits but lately i even got a 15 secs powerblock cd on one of my downstate skills (not autoattack). Maybe there is something bugging atm?As it was written before, you get "interrupted" but nothing really happen, powerblock is triggered because you CAN be interrupted but .... not really interrpted....so its proc'd 15s cd...if this makes sense to you

Best way to see it for yourself is to be a Mesmer and use F3 on a downed Guard..It will stop the guards down 2 skill and secure a stomp.

Have been doing this since game release.Then you are hella delusional if you really do it since release, it did not interrupt dowend skill, neither guardian,neither warrior, doesnt do kitten to anyone or anything.

It works fine for me.

I dont appreciate your slander either as a head up, Im just sharing what I know to be true from experience.

I could go in to more detail and explain that Daze shatters work on downs but not mantra dazes, but my point was centered around F3.As I said before, before making ridiculous wrong claim = test it yourself as you are wrong.Before making MY post I did test it with guardian F3 and warrior hammer toss, your "experience" doesnt match neither MY own experience or my tests

Well im sorry that's the case for you but for me it has worked just fine for 6 years.It never did work on downedstate skills, you never could interrupt it with anything but launch. Want me to post a screenshot where I used f3 into his knock and I still got pushed back? xD

I dont need a screenshot. Ive got 6 years of seeing it happen.

I already hinted in a previous post that not all dazes work too. For all we know there could be a weird interaction with traits such as powerblock or lost time, same issue Berserker currently has with a certain trait set up boosting rampage toughness by over 1k.The only CC that interrupt dowendskills is a launch.I did additional test with power block, it does stop skills midway because it does put ICD instant so you cant use a skill that has 15s cd. I never thought about this trait as worth using as mental anguish had more value to oneshotting targets rather than trying to interrupt something through stability spam(in the past). I'm not sure if its really interrupted downedstate targets years ago as complain about it came recently and became more obvious with sword ambush on mirage.Mantra daze and F3 are equal if you are interested.

Ive always been a power block player on Mes which is why Ive been seeing it and you haven't.Doesnt mean daze magically work on downed skills for every class, power block case is an exception.Soooooooooooo, for @"bravan.3876" you can confirm that since release it worked and its not a bug caused by latest power block nerf?And more over any player that aware his CC is useless against downedstate skills wont waste crucial CC, especially when you could secure stomp with any shatter.

It's not the only exception but okay, I'm just glad you were able to see an example for yourself as to why daze works. :smile:Its work because power block made an exception. Not as you said its work all the time or at least implied, your initial post never included information how its supposed to work, so I had to run multiple tests to figure the only case.Try to prove me wrongI could go in to more detail and explain that Daze shatters work on downs but not mantra dazes, but my point was centered around F3.From your post, go ahead, I'm all ears

apparently you aren't all ears or you would see why your entire comment just now was useless.

Ive made my point, you've called it out as bs and since found out its actually true. You have found 1 example where daze works but doesnt mean its the only one.

To conclude, daze works on downed targets.I know you'll argue again but this is just a moment where you learn something new everyday.

That passive aggressivity though...

Dazes do not work like they would on "not downed" bodies since you'll see the "interrupt" text-effect whilst the skill is still fully cast afterwards. F3 do not work either... at least from my experiences. As stated, you'll see the interrupt text, but the skill is still casted fully, without alterations, afterwards. Seen it done on both the receiving and giving side.I did it say it many times but oh well :joy:
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praqtos.9035

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@DigiQWill.6378 said:@praqtos.9035I just thought I'd mention it again so Seph could go doublecheck ^^In my previous post, I told to him, he should check it. Then said he is willing to explain how come daze is REALLY interrupting actions from downed body... but I dont count on that :pTho I think after they changed PB, they could have broke something in it, currently its slightly bugged

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sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

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@praqtos.9035 said:

@DigiQWill.6378 said:@praqtos.9035I just thought I'd mention it again so Seph could go doublecheck ^^In my previous post, I told to him, he should check it. Then said he is willing to explain how come daze is REALLY interrupting actions from downed body... but I dont count on that :pTho I think after they changed PB, they could have broke something in it, currently its slightly bugged

I never said that and you guys are putting words in my mouth for the sake of winning which is why I wont converse any further with this childish behavior.Theres no passive aggression either but can understand why children would think that when being spoken too directly as an adult.

I said dazes work, you have confirmed that it works by using 1 example... I know of other dazes that work too but I have no intention of sharing them with posters only looking to be right or to win.

so once again, congrats on learning something new. ☺I learn new things each day too, no shame in it. Unfortunately knowing which dazes work and why is something I learnt 5 or 6 years ago.

So to conclude:I said dazes workYou said noyou confirmed that it does by using Mes (which is what I used as an example)

conversation over. done and dusted, wont even check this thread again.

If you wanted to have a discussion that doesnt involve winning, then Id be more than happy to share what I know.

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