Desert BL - Is it Time To Remove It?

[Ni In.6578]

As we know, the Desert BL poll was sent out ~2 years ago to see whether or not to change Red BL from Alpine to Desert. Many of those who play WvW on a regular basis have had various complaints about Desert including size, tower location relative to spawn and garri, map exploits, and so forth.

The above issues are exacerbated by assigning Red to that BL. The server that came in last place likely does not have the defensive coverage to maintain such a large BL where towers cannot be easily defended from spawn (due to time it takes to get to the tower) or from garri (e.g. trebbing NWT/NET). This means that the server with likely the least coverage in the match up receives a BL that is harder to defend thus potentially causing them to decrease the PPT they receive over the match.

And I acknowledge some people do indeed enjoy Desert BL for their own reasons.

Is it time to remove Desert BL and replace it with Alpine BL? Would you keep Desert BL? Or would you keep Desert BL and rotate which color received the BL (knowing that it won't always be 'fair' as ANet can't ensure that a server wouldn't get it N weeks in a row)?

[Gop.8713]

I wouldn't have a problem with desert being on a random bl instead of red, but I disagree that it is the most difficult to defend. It's true that the distances to cover present a challenge but it is also the least frequently attacked bl by far. I never leave home bl so this is one of the very few areas of the mode where I feel like I can speak with some authority :p

[Ni In.6578]

In T2 - T4 NA, Red BL is where you go for free keep caps as green or blue. It's simply not defended.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Still of the opinion that one of the alpines should be replaced by EoTM so that we have 4 unique maps and more choice.

[coro.3176]

Desert Pros:

• better terrain for fights, especially inside keeps and towers - ie. enough space to fight inside the towers compared to alpine which is really narrow and doesn't have any space to maneuver inside. West keep on desert is fantastic for this. The courtyard area is nice and open, but with multiple levels and some pillars for LoS.
• no asymmetric imbalances. Eg. on alpine, southwest tower can safely treb west keep. East keep can safely treb southeast tower. East keep is much harder to take than west keep. Desert is much more balanced in this regard. I'd say it's roughly even on both sides. Maybe air keep is slightly easier to take than fire due to certain treb + cata spots, but not by much.
• better roaming - objectives are farther apart, so opponents have a harder time running away to go hide in a nearby keep or tower. The more varied terrain allows opportunities for creative play like using the hay piles to escape or knocking people off cliffs. This lets you pull off some fun 1vX fights where you would almost certainly lose if it was alpine-style terrain.
• uses more of the map. Much less wasted space on desert compared to alpine. (eg. skritt, centaurs)

Dsert Cons:

• players don't like it, so it tends to be less populated
• longer run back if you die
• the pve raid-boss-style lords are SO ANNOYING. Knockback and interrupt every 2 seconds is no fun at all. A few of them are soloable, and some are easier with the right build, but in general they are a pain.

[Whiteout.1975]

I don't see WvW being competitive enough to worry about it. So I could care less about less about PPT overall, but only to the point of it helping determine a match (sometimes). Give it to the Server/Team with the most consecutive win's. While also considering the difference in tiers... If it's too hard for people handle. Seems like it would be more fair that way I guess... Don't really care though.

If WvW was more competitive, then I would probably hold a stronger attitude around this like the OP.

I can however agree with @"coro.3176". I'll also add that I like the taller objective walls... like towers have there in general. This leave's some more room to breath on walls if a zerg/group is bombing you. Talking more in the case of being heavily outmanned personally. Otherwise... Let's go!Also, PvE bosses I don't mind... I like that they feel harder personally, but to each their own :+1:

Anyways, in my experience... Before any real problems surfaced back when the borderland first came out. I found it rather that people were just upset that they had to learn a new map more than anything else... And so I believe that is at the Core of the "DBL Hate Train" in general. Before any real valid issue's came into play :p

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

I actually like the aesthetic of the desert BL...But something is just wrong with the way the map was made, it drops the frames on my computer to unplayable levels...with a three way 200 player zerg bananaza going on, i simply can not play.

They need to optimize this map so that it's not so laggy..

[hunkamania.7561]

It's bad and it's unfair that only one server aka the red server aka the weakest server gets it. Easiest map to k train cause no1 plays on it

[Kovu.7560]

@Ni In.6578 said:In T2 - T4 NA, Red BL is where you go for free keep caps as green or blue. It's simply not defended.

And in T1 green and blue can't farm the map as well because green already has half of the objectives all day and defends them.Buuut that's an issue with population, the map itself doesn't bother me too much. Especially now that mounts are around.

~ Kovu

[neven.3785]

Keep desert BL and make all keep and tower lords as annoying or as inconsequential as the originals. Reducing player caps across the board is a better change than removing content that has been reworked several times to improve player experience. Anet can't do much when it's a meme to groan about desert BL. Lots of those groaning still see it unchanged from its original state, which it was indeed horrible. Now it's not so bad. Would much rather see another biome map than all alpine again, or even an alpine map removed and EBG belonging to red, and desert to green.

[Quarktastic.1027]

@Ni In.6578 said:In T2 - T4 NA, Red BL is where you go for free keep caps as green or blue. It's simply not defended.

Somebody better go tell Yaks Bend then.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Ni In.6578 said:As we know, the Desert BL poll was sent out ~2 years ago to see whether or not to change Red BL from Alpine to Desert. Many of those who play WvW on a regular basis have had various complaints about Desert including size, tower location relative to spawn and garri, map exploits, and so forth.

The above issues are exacerbated by assigning Red to that BL. The server that came in last place likely does not have the defensive coverage to maintain such a large BL where towers cannot be easily defended from spawn (due to time it takes to get to the tower) or from garri (e.g. trebbing NWT/NET). This means that the server with likely the least coverage in the match up receives a BL that is harder to defend thus potentially causing them to decrease the PPT they receive over the match.

And I acknowledge some people do indeed enjoy Desert BL for their own reasons.

Is it time to remove Desert BL and replace it with Alpine BL? Would you keep Desert BL? Or would you keep Desert BL and rotate which color received the BL (knowing that it won't always be 'fair' as ANet can't ensure that a server wouldn't get it N weeks in a row)?

desert isnt bad. i was immature then. its a great map, now that we got mounts.

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

@Ni In.6578 said:Many of those who play WvW on a regular basis have had various complaints

Surprising!

[crazyhusky.2985]

I say Rotate it,Make Green BL be in the desert BL as its the hardest to defend. Give Red the Alpine BL.Right now If you go up a tier then you're stuck with the worst map which means you don't stand a chance better servers.Greens would be a server coming down a tier, ( or remaining in if tier 1) which would give a challenge to them but also allow other teams have a chance.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

I don't hate the map itself (especially with mounts), I just hate how dead it generally is. Roaming can be enjoyable on it if there are actually people there. It would be nice if we got a new BL map that replaced one of the Alpines so each would be different.

[Doug.4930]

The problem was, and remains to be that the desert BL has too much focus on pve. The mobs are more plentiful and too powerful. Some of the keep lords are just worse than awful to fight in. So remove all the random op pve mobs all over the place, lessen the amount of guards and how strong they are, and please please make the keep/tower lords the same as we have in alpine. Spent the other day fighting in the lords room of the Lava keep at the desert bl, and it was just terrible with the amount of CC that mob does. But apart from overkill pve, I actually enjoy playing in the desert bl, but until the pve is tonned down to the level of the alpine, I vote to remove it.

[Aeolus.3615]

The problem atm for desert BL is that game lacks mechanics, mounts can help a bit tho.

Mobs in desert BL aren’t that powerful wth...

It’s the alpine and eb that are way to scrub friendly...

Imo for what desert BL needs I think it’s to soon, let the alliance system arrive first.

Maybe Eb and alpine need a new map as well.

[Decado.9304]

If it can't be removed then I would change its allocation. It's given to the lowest ranking server of the tier however most non-national EU servers wont play on it or just don't have the numbers so certainly don't defend it, leaving it to be karma trained by green and blue virtually guarenteeing that red drops tier again.

I would make Desert the Green border as I think that it would give the weakest server a better chance of staying up a tier and just to mix things up a bit, or just randomize it

[Doug.4930]

Mobs in desert BL aren’t that powerful wth...

It’s the alpine and eb that are way to scrub friendly...

Its open world pvp, I don't want mobs that can greatly impact a fight to be a factor. The mobs in alpine and EB are perfect because they stand as a way to stop solo players/smallgroups instantly capping objectives, but are weak enough as to not affect player vs player fighting. The lord in the lava keep for instance has a ridiculous amount of AOE crowd control which greatly impacts fights in the lords room.

If I want to pve, I'd go and play pve. This is open world pvp not a dungeon. This was the reason everyone hated it in the first place, too much annoying pve.

@Aeolus.3615 said:Maybe Eb and alpine need a new map as well.

No god please no. I was onboard for new maps before the abomination that was the old desert BL came out. Please not again. Please.

[Zephyra.4709]

Take a step back and imagine for one moment...

Players: remove DBL plz give Alpine backANet: yes we have replaced DBL with Tangled Depths

[Dawdler.8521]

@Zephyra.4709 said:Take a step back and imagine for one moment...

Players: remove DBL plz give Alpine backANet: yes we have replaced DBL with Tangled DepthsStop stealing my ideas!

Also replace EB with Dragonfall and place every keep on top of a cliff.

[Tiawal.2351]

@Ni In.6578 said:Is it time to remove Desert BL and replace it with Alpine BL? Would you keep Desert BL? Or would you keep Desert BL and rotate which color received the BL (knowing that it won't always be 'fair' as ANet can't ensure that a server wouldn't get it N weeks in a row)?

This was asked many times, and both ArenaNet and an unknown percent (about half of those voting for any reasons) of players wanted to keep the Desert map.

As it is now, Desert bl rarely helps the red team, because a large number of players don't like it and though the map was improved, there are still good reasons why to avoid it.

The only solution seems to be keeping Desert as an extra map, while having 3 alpine maps as home borderlands. EB and the rest kept as well.

[Warkind.6745]

They should keep it so that every time I play on it I can be reminded not to let myself get hyped for WvW content releases.

[TheGrimm.5624]

When Anet last listened to the vocal group of the forum goers which is a minority of players they removed DBL just to find players showing up on the forums asking WTW!? We lost a lot of people due to staleness in WvW prior to new maps and for some posters it was due to not having new maps. We still face that today in having two ABLs. We need to get at least one replaced to keep things fresh and not lose more to that staleness of the same old same old.

[Opal.9324]

I'd hate to see DBL removed. Now that there's a mount, it's the only map that doesn't feel too small to me. It would be nice if it weren't always red, though.