Devs - Question about non-critting traits from December 2018 patch. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Devs - Question about non-critting traits from December 2018 patch.

Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭
edited June 10, 2019 in PVP

In addition to crowd-control trait reworks, this update also addresses traits that deal instant damage and how they affect the game. The large majority of these traits have had their base damage increased while removing their ability to critically hit in order to improve pacing and reduce time-to-kill in competitive game modes. Certain traits that serve as the main source of a build's damage in both PvE and competitive modes have been modified so that they require critical hits in order to deal maximum damage, giving conditions like weakness more value.

Guardian - Shattered Aegis: The damage of this trait has been increased by 20% in PvE only. This trait can no longer critically hit.

Mesmer - Lost Time: This trait now delivers its slowing strike when the mesmer disables their target instead of after the mesmer has built charges. Its base strike damage has been reduced by 50%, but its critical-hit damage has been increased by 100%.

Why did Guardian's have their trait nerfed and not compensated in any way. The only damage buff was in PvE only. It was a trait that was really only used in gimmick builds and wasn't really competitive. You make it unable to crit, okay fine...adjust the base damage. Nope you don't do that. You just gut it and leave it where it is.

But then you front-load the slow and move the damage to on-crit for Mesmers. Why did this trait not get nerfed like almost every other "passive" trait. A passive trait that can chain crit for 2k+ that also happens to slow the person???? Weren't you supposed to nerf passives?

Please explain your logic behind this and how are you guys so out of touch with reality? I see this time and time again, you buff things in patches designed to nerf them. You nerf things in patches designed to buff things. Are you just throwing darts at a paper and that's how you make changes?

The most recent example I can think of is when you nerfed the range on lightning whip in a patch where you stated you took a pass at the daggers for Elementalist to give it an identiy and buff some weaker skills. Like, what? In a patch designed to buff a class you nerf it? And who the hell complained about lightning whip anyways, that was such a random nerf. "We noticed an Elementalist was able to hit a player with lightning whip, this has been fixed, enjoy getting nerfed every patch." Other classes get complete reworks and yet you slap some random kitten changes like +100 more base healing on a few water skills so now instead of dying in one hit, you die in....wait for it, you guessed it, one hit! It's baffling to me.

Someone enlighten me please because I don't get it.

Comments

  • DragonFury.6243DragonFury.6243 Member ✭✭✭✭

    because one is guardian and the other is Mesmer

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You really can't figure it out?

    That's because the nerf was aimed at builds that don't max out crit chance.

    Bite me.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    Complains about mesmer lost time but not even a single word about LROD: applies weakness and does way more damage than mesmer LT. If anything then you will call a nerf upon LROD to get on the LT level - noncrit 200 base damage,crit 2k.
    Also on interrupt trait for mesmer power block was made a noncrit on 3s cd (bug but they dont seems to want to fix it)
    If they nerf LROD, that would be your fault. I will be petty happy to never see lrod weavers again ^^

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the shattered aegis nerf really pissed me off and is one of the many reasons why im not playing the game anymore.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Roquen.5406 The reason is devs incompetence. There is not much more into than that. You want more evidence than they did a damage split between PvP and PvE. Someone at Anet genuinely though this trait could be used in PvE. It does not get anymore incompetence than this.

  • Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Complains about mesmer lost time but not even a single word about LROD: applies weakness and does way more damage than mesmer LT. If anything then you will call a nerf upon LROD to get on the LT level - noncrit 200 base damage,crit 2k.
    Also on interrupt trait for mesmer power block was made a noncrit on 3s cd (bug but they dont seems to want to fix it)
    If they nerf LROD, that would be your fault. I will be petty happy to never see lrod weavers again ^^

    Are you really complaining about Elementalist? It's literally bottom of the barrel. The only players that play it are loyalists to the class. If you want Anet to keep gutting it, then sure why not. It's not like they weren't going to do that anyways.

    But let's compare:

    Let's say you go Scepter/Focus Weaver. You have access to Earthen Synergy on a 20 second cooldown, Gale on a 40 second cooldown (32 with traits). Then if you take Weave Self you have another disable on a 90 second cooldown that requires you to attune to all elements before you can pop the skill, then you have to be in melee range and get it off in time. You have things like Earthen Shield, Lightning Hammer, and Tornado...but they aren't really taken and once again, long cooldowns. Tornado leaves you as a sitting duck and you will most definitely die while using it if you aren't bunker/support. Very few skills to proc LROD with.

    If you take d/d you have more but it's so awkward to play and land that it's not even worth it. If you take Sword/Dagger you have some as well but oyou have to be really close to land and once again as an LROD ele...you will get melted.

    Ele has the lowest hp, lowest armor, lowest defense. The only reason people can make Sword/Dagger Weaver work is through evade frames...but if you get tapped once you are pretty much dead and that build definitely won't run LROD.

    Now onto Memser.

    Let's say you go GS Sword/X (Torch/Pistol/Shield and I guess Focus if you want to mess with it). With GS you have the interrupt on 5. Then depending on your off-hand you have 1 additional with Pistol or Shield or even Focus). Then you have Mantra of Distraction, two interrupts on a 12 second cd. You have Diversion (can stun if traited, otherwise it still dazes) on a 38 second cd which gets reduced by 15 seconds every time you recharge MoD. Then you have blink and an additional slot which you can take for more burst through Mantra of Pain or Defender for another interrupt to proc LT + burst damage but that does have a longer CD and isn't as reliable. You can take Signet of Illusions if you want to reset your shatters giving another daze/stun every 60 seconds. Keep in mind these cooldowns are often less because you constantly have a tick or two of alacrity on you. Then your elite you can take Gravity Well which has a knockdown and a float, which also does damage itself.

    But wait with Mesmer you have so much synergy. So while LT seems like it's less up front which it's not because it's way more spammable...You have Power Block (on interrupt causes 5 seconds of weakness and damage (can't critically hit) and can occur every 3 seconds. Let's add to that Superiority Complex and now you have 15% bonus critical damage, then on disabled targets an additional 10%. Then you add Delayed Reactions (Interrupts slow the target AND give you Alacrity), Danger Time (15% inc critical chance and 10% critical damage bonus), plus Lost Time which deals double damage on critical hit.

    That's all right? Nope because you can double up on your skills thanks to a fancy thing called Continuum Split. Things like double gravity well or double shatters for interrupt and burst.

    But Mesmer has more base health, more built in survivability, more burst potential, more clutter and spam with clones, access to stealth to peel, etc. And yet you wanted to compare the two? Please show me a build with LROD in mind that has as much synergy as mesmer has with their traits.

    But once again, by all means go ahead and nerf LROD to normalize all skills because why not.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Complains about mesmer lost time but not even a single word about LROD: applies weakness and does way more damage than mesmer LT. If anything then you will call a nerf upon LROD to get on the LT level - noncrit 200 base damage,crit 2k.
    Also on interrupt trait for mesmer power block was made a noncrit on 3s cd (bug but they dont seems to want to fix it)
    If they nerf LROD, that would be your fault. I will be petty happy to never see lrod weavers again ^^

    Are you really complaining about Elementalist? It's literally bottom of the barrel. The only players that play it are loyalists to the class. If you want Anet to keep gutting it, then sure why not. It's not like they weren't going to do that anyways.

    I dont care elementalist or not, I dont care that you pretend its in horrible state or not. I know a top10 guy who is playing an ele and literally laugh at this forum complains coming from "ele mains".(He is playing LROD with dagger/focus and doing great with it)
    You complain about LT which is way weaker than LROD doesnt matter how you look at it.
    Slow is annoying condition but weakness render all power builds useless while slow doesnt affect your damage.
    Sorry I wont read your QQ post.
    Static discharge got equal treatment as Lost Time did and only LROD did not, if anything LROD should be nerfed and brought down to their level.

  • Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Complains about mesmer lost time but not even a single word about LROD: applies weakness and does way more damage than mesmer LT. If anything then you will call a nerf upon LROD to get on the LT level - noncrit 200 base damage,crit 2k.
    Also on interrupt trait for mesmer power block was made a noncrit on 3s cd (bug but they dont seems to want to fix it)
    If they nerf LROD, that would be your fault. I will be petty happy to never see lrod weavers again ^^

    Are you really complaining about Elementalist? It's literally bottom of the barrel. The only players that play it are loyalists to the class. If you want Anet to keep gutting it, then sure why not. It's not like they weren't going to do that anyways.

    I dont care elementalist or not, I dont care that you pretend its in horrible state or not. I know a top10 guy who is playing an ele and literally laugh at this forum complains coming from "ele mains".
    You complain about LT which is way weaker than LROD doesnt matter how you look at it.
    Slow is annoying condition but weakness render all power builds useless while slow doesnt affect your damage.
    Sorry I wont read your QQ post.
    Static discharge got equal treatment as Lost Time did and only LROD did not, if anything LROD should be nerfed and brought down to their level.

    That top 10 player can get top 10 with any class, they are just good. If they did it with any other class they would have had a much easier time. Also, how is a single player indicative of the class as a whole? My post isn't a QQ post it was addressing your complaints. It also points out that LT through Power Block has weakness too...which seems to be your biggest complaint.

    It's a shame you blindly defend things without thinking about them. It's very telling that you can't take a few min to read someone's reply to you.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Complains about mesmer lost time but not even a single word about LROD: applies weakness and does way more damage than mesmer LT. If anything then you will call a nerf upon LROD to get on the LT level - noncrit 200 base damage,crit 2k.
    Also on interrupt trait for mesmer power block was made a noncrit on 3s cd (bug but they dont seems to want to fix it)
    If they nerf LROD, that would be your fault. I will be petty happy to never see lrod weavers again ^^

    Are you really complaining about Elementalist? It's literally bottom of the barrel. The only players that play it are loyalists to the class. If you want Anet to keep gutting it, then sure why not. It's not like they weren't going to do that anyways.

    I dont care elementalist or not, I dont care that you pretend its in horrible state or not. I know a top10 guy who is playing an ele and literally laugh at this forum complains coming from "ele mains".
    You complain about LT which is way weaker than LROD doesnt matter how you look at it.
    Slow is annoying condition but weakness render all power builds useless while slow doesnt affect your damage.
    Sorry I wont read your QQ post.
    Static discharge got equal treatment as Lost Time did and only LROD did not, if anything LROD should be nerfed and brought down to their level.

    That top 10 player can get top 10 with any class, they are just good. If they did it with literally any other class they would have had a much easier time. My post isn't a QQ post it was addressing your complaints. It also points out that LT through Power Block has weakness too...which seems to be your biggest complaint.

    It's a shame you blindly defend things without thinking about them. It's very telling that you can't take a few min to read someone's reply to you.

    This guy do play AT/mAT as elementalist.
    LT doesnt have weakness on its own. Powerblock is domination trait with icd of 3 seconds on damage/weakness part. May be you want LROD to do 900 noncrit damage and apply weakness once per 3 seconds too?
    Domi/dueling/chrono every single trait for damage - marauder scholar 1.600(300 noncrit) damage on LT VS mara/scholar,arcane/air/weaver 2900(1200 noncrit) on lrod light golem. Do you need my help to figure out what is better?

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Complains about mesmer lost time but not even a single word about LROD: applies weakness and does way more damage than mesmer LT. If anything then you will call a nerf upon LROD to get on the LT level - noncrit 200 base damage,crit 2k.
    Also on interrupt trait for mesmer power block was made a noncrit on 3s cd (bug but they dont seems to want to fix it)
    If they nerf LROD, that would be your fault. I will be petty happy to never see lrod weavers again ^^

    Are you really complaining about Elementalist? It's literally bottom of the barrel. The only players that play it are loyalists to the class. If you want Anet to keep gutting it, then sure why not. It's not like they weren't going to do that anyways.

    I dont care elementalist or not, I dont care that you pretend its in horrible state or not. I know a top10 guy who is playing an ele and literally laugh at this forum complains coming from "ele mains".
    You complain about LT which is way weaker than LROD doesnt matter how you look at it.
    Slow is annoying condition but weakness render all power builds useless while slow doesnt affect your damage.
    Sorry I wont read your QQ post.
    Static discharge got equal treatment as Lost Time did and only LROD did not, if anything LROD should be nerfed and brought down to their level.

    That top 10 player can get top 10 with any class, they are just good. If they did it with literally any other class they would have had a much easier time. My post isn't a QQ post it was addressing your complaints. It also points out that LT through Power Block has weakness too...which seems to be your biggest complaint.

    It's a shame you blindly defend things without thinking about them. It's very telling that you can't take a few min to read someone's reply to you.

    This guy do play AT/mAT as elementalist.
    LT doesnt have weakness on its own. Powerblock is domination trait with icd of 3 seconds on damage/weakness part. May be you want LROD to do 900 noncrit damage and apply weakness once per 3 seconds too?
    Domi/dueling/chrono every single trait for damage - marauder scholar 1.600(300 noncrit) damage on LT VS mara/scholar,arcane/air/weaver 2900(1200 noncrit) on lrod light golem. Do you need my help to figure out what is better?

    You forgot the part where mesmer CC is instant, it has skills that do more damage from higher range and on lower cooldown than anything in LROD builds.

    Deso's favorite FROG
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    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    LT doesnt have weakness on its own. Powerblock is domination trait with icd of 3 seconds on damage/weakness part. May be you want LROD to do 900 noncrit damage and apply weakness once per 3 seconds too?
    Domi/dueling/chrono every single trait for damage - marauder scholar 1.600(300 noncrit) damage on LT VS mara/scholar,arcane/air/weaver 2900(1200 noncrit) on lrod light golem. Do you need my help to figure out what is better?

    You are leaving out important information. When traited as you mentioned, every LT gives slow, alacrity, and then weakness every 3 seconds. You can also spam it a hell of a lot more than you can with LR. If you can do 1,600 damage 10 times, while also applying weakness and slow and giving yourself shorter CD. Are you really going to tell me that is worse off than being able to do 2,900 damage two or three times in that same time frame?

    What about the fact that Mesmer can do way more of everything else than Ele. You are looking at raw numbers and saying, "See it's better in a vacuum". LROD is way more punishing because playing ele is punishing in and of itself in its current state. If you miss a stun on Ele you have to wait that much longer to even try again. On Chrono, you can literally spam it every few seconds with multiple sources. Play the two classes and see which one seems more ridiculous to you.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    LT doesnt have weakness on its own. Powerblock is domination trait with icd of 3 seconds on damage/weakness part. May be you want LROD to do 900 noncrit damage and apply weakness once per 3 seconds too?
    Domi/dueling/chrono every single trait for damage - marauder scholar 1.600(300 noncrit) damage on LT VS mara/scholar,arcane/air/weaver 2900(1200 noncrit) on lrod light golem. Do you need my help to figure out what is better?

    You are leaving out important information. When traited as you mentioned, every LT gives slow, alacrity, and then weakness every 3 seconds. You can also spam it a hell of a lot more than you can with LR. If you can do 1,600 damage 10 times, while also applying weakness and slow and giving yourself shorter CD. Are you really going to tell me that is worse off than being able to do 2,900 damage two or three times in that same time frame?

    Important information? LT on its own doesnt do anything but damage/slow. It doesnt provide any alacrity or weakness on its own. Later you say "its better in vacuum" when you literally take LT and put it into "vaccum" conditions where all starts and all weapon sets/utilities and split align with maximum clone count.

    @steki.1478 said:
    You forgot the part where mesmer CC is instant, it has skills that do more damage from higher range and on lower cooldown than anything in LROD builds.

    As his main complaint as he being killed too quick by full zerk chrono build, full zerk ele build evaporate you just as fast as mesmer. Lrod build is not an exception

  • Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Important information? LT on its own doesnt do anything but damage/slow. It doesnt provide any alacrity or weakness on its own. Later you say "its better in vacuum" when you literally take LT and put it into "vaccum" conditions where all starts and all weapon sets/utilities and split align with maximum clone count.

    What? I picked what would be a common build that happens to have a ton of synergy if playing power shatter. You are using a stationary light golem to talk about how much more broken LROD is when compared to LT. Talk about use case in pvp not what something does on a golem. Once again, go play the two classes and you will see the difference.

    @steki.1478 said:
    You forgot the part where mesmer CC is instant, it has skills that do more damage from higher range and on lower cooldown than anything in LROD builds.

    As his main complaint as he being killed too quick by full zerk chrono build, full zerk ele build evaporate you just as fast as mesmer. Lrod build is not an exception

    First of all, you brought up the LROD thing. That wasn't even a point in my post. Second, I never complained about being killed too quickly by a full zerk chrono build. I was talking about the difference in traits between two classes and asking why one is okay and not another as well as the rationale behind the changes.

    You keep making baseless assumptions here...but I am not sure why.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Important information? LT on its own doesnt do anything but damage/slow. It doesnt provide any alacrity or weakness on its own. Later you say "its better in vacuum" when you literally take LT and put it into "vaccum" conditions where all starts and all weapon sets/utilities and split align with maximum clone count.

    What? I picked what would be a common build that happens to have a ton of synergy if playing power shatter. You are using a stationary light golem to talk about how much more broken LROD is when compared to LT. Talk about use case in pvp not what something does on a golem. Once again, go play the two classes and you will see the difference.

    @steki.1478 said:
    You forgot the part where mesmer CC is instant, it has skills that do more damage from higher range and on lower cooldown than anything in LROD builds.

    As his main complaint as he being killed too quick by full zerk chrono build, full zerk ele build evaporate you just as fast as mesmer. Lrod build is not an exception

    First of all, you brought up the LROD thing. That wasn't even a point in my post. Second, I never complained about being killed too quickly by a full zerk chrono build. I was talking about the difference in traits between two classes and asking why one is okay and not another as well as the rationale behind the changes.

    You complain about LT and the other trait that has exact functionality is LROD trait. To begin with LROD is way stronger than LT, if anything LROD deserve a nerf, not LT.
    LROD ele was at monthly AT and did pretty good. While where your OPE OPE chronomancers?

    You keep making baseless assumptions here...but I am not sure why.

    Pretty logical that you were farmed too much by chronomancers so you decided to complain about LT(that has x2 less damage than lrod)

    The large majority of these traits have had their base damage increased while removing their ability to critically hit in order to improve pacing and reduce time-to-kill in competitive game modes

    With all your evades/stability you somehow manage to die? Thats not even funny now

  • Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Then you suddenly complain about LT which is part of noobkiller chrono oneshot build, its not baseless assumption,pretty logical that you being famed by chronomancers with LT. With all your evades/stability you somehow manage to die? Thats not even funny now

    Well this degraded pretty quickly, I cut out the rest of your comments but my point still stands. Go play the two classes and you will see the difference.

    My original post had nothing to do with Ele. It was comparing a Guardian trait to a Mesmer trait. For some reason you brought up Ele because I guess they bother you? I don't know why to be honest. I stated nothing about the class itself being op vs. another until you talked about a single ability that almost no one uses (except for off/gimmick builds because that's all it is). At that point I addressed your "concerns" with a comparison between the two classes.

    It has NOTHING to do with what does and does not kill me or anyone else. Why you still harp on something that isn't true, is beyond me. Looking at your last comment, which once again is irrelevant to the question at hand, you are just looking to pick a fight, and so I am done here.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Then you suddenly complain about LT which is part of noobkiller chrono oneshot build, its not baseless assumption,pretty logical that you being famed by chronomancers with LT. With all your evades/stability you somehow manage to die? Thats not even funny now

    Well this degraded pretty quickly, I cut out the rest of your comments but my point still stands. Go play the two classes and you will see the difference.

    My original post had nothing to do with Ele.

    Ye,its randomly appeared in your thread, right ?

    The most recent example I can think of is when you nerfed the range on lightning whip in a patch where you stated you took a pass at the daggers for Elementalist to give it an identiy and buff some weaker skills. Like, what? In a patch designed to buff a class you nerf it? And who the hell complained about lightning whip anyways, that was such a random nerf. "We noticed an Elementalist was able to hit a player with lightning whip, this has been fixed, enjoy getting nerfed every patch." Other classes get complete reworks and yet you slap some random kitten changes like +100 more base healing on a few water skills so now instead of dying in one hit, you die in....wait for it, you guessed it, one hit! It's baffling to me.

    Nothing to do with ele. Indeed /s

    It was comparing a Guardian trait to a Mesmer trait. For some reason you brought up Ele because I guess they bother you?

    You comparing apples and oranges. Then your thread is meaningless as you compare two different mechanics and how they work. Since after ALL my posts you STILL unable to understand simpliest and the most obvious reason: I brought LROD up because its exactly two traits that are similar to each other and happen to apply condition/damage on ANY landed CC. As I said if anything need a nerf, thats LROD to do the same damage on crit and close to no damage when crit doesnt happen.

    I don't know why to be honest. I stated nothing about the class itself being op vs. another until you talked about a single ability that almost no one uses (except for off/gimmick builds because that's all it is). At that point I addressed your "concerns" with a comparison between the two classes.

    This "gimmick" build is way more viable than any GS/ s/x builds you brought up and was used in latest monthly tournament by a good player with pretty serious reward, thats your baseless assumptions now that it is a bad/gimmick build.

    It has NOTHING to do with what does and does not kill me or anyone else. Why you still harp on something that isn't true, is beyond me.

    Its so not true, that is your "my post not about ele" but still fits a paragraph about them

    Looking at your last comment, which once again is irrelevant to the question at hand, you are just looking to pick a fight, and so I am done here.

    Your thread is irrelevant because you tried to compare completely different traits/mechanics instead of comparing truly similar traits.
    Your thread is basically about: they nerfed only guardian, they did nothing to mesmer,kitten they even buffed them! And random complaints about ele.


    Power block.
    December 11, 2018
    The damage of this skill has been increased by 20% so that it now matches its tooltip. This trait can no longer critically hit foes.


    Shattered aegis.
    December 11, 2018
    The damage of this trait has been increased by 20% in PvE only. This trait can no longer critically hit.

    Why didnt you mention this? You can see only how they made a positive change from a dead trait? Unacceptable ! HOW THEY DARE TO GIVE MESMER GOOD TRAITS?!

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DragonFury.6243 said:
    because one is guardian and the other is Mesmer

    Oh that explains why necro (chilling nova) is even worse

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    Then you suddenly complain about LT which is part of noobkiller chrono oneshot build, its not baseless assumption,pretty logical that you being famed by chronomancers with LT. With all your evades/stability you somehow manage to die? Thats not even funny now

    Well this degraded pretty quickly, I cut out the rest of your comments but my point still stands. Go play the two classes and you will see the difference.

    My original post had nothing to do with Ele.

    Ye,its randomly appeared in your thread, right ?

    The most recent example I can think of is when you nerfed the range on lightning whip in a patch where you stated you took a pass at the daggers for Elementalist to give it an identiy and buff some weaker skills. Like, what? In a patch designed to buff a class you nerf it? And who the hell complained about lightning whip anyways, that was such a random nerf. "We noticed an Elementalist was able to hit a player with lightning whip, this has been fixed, enjoy getting nerfed every patch." Other classes get complete reworks and yet you slap some random kitten changes like +100 more base healing on a few water skills so now instead of dying in one hit, you die in....wait for it, you guessed it, one hit! It's baffling to me.

    Nothing to do with ele. Indeed /s

    It was comparing a Guardian trait to a Mesmer trait. For some reason you brought up Ele because I guess they bother you?

    You comparing apples and oranges. Then your thread is meaningless as you compare two different mechanics and how they work. Since after ALL my posts you STILL unable to understand simpliest and the most obvious reason: I brought LROD up because its exactly two traits that are similar to each other and happen to apply condition/damage on ANY landed CC. As I said if anything need a nerf, thats LROD to do the same damage on crit and close to no damage when crit doesnt happen.

    I don't know why to be honest. I stated nothing about the class itself being op vs. another until you talked about a single ability that almost no one uses (except for off/gimmick builds because that's all it is). At that point I addressed your "concerns" with a comparison between the two classes.

    This "gimmick" build is way more viable than any GS/ s/x builds you brought up and was used in latest monthly tournament by a good player with pretty serious reward, thats your baseless assumptions now that it is a bad/gimmick build.

    It has NOTHING to do with what does and does not kill me or anyone else. Why you still harp on something that isn't true, is beyond me.

    Its so not true, that is your "my post not about ele" but still fits a paragraph about them

    Looking at your last comment, which once again is irrelevant to the question at hand, you are just looking to pick a fight, and so I am done here.

    Your thread is irrelevant because you tried to compare completely different traits/mechanics instead of comparing truly similar traits.

    Should we compare? What about chilling nova? You have to chill someone then crit that enemy while it's chilled to do a hard nerfed non critting hit (that could fail to crit if you haven't been on 100% critchance) and has an icd.
    While mesmer: you have to disable, then hit comes with 100% more critdmg (yes that hit can fail to crit as well, while below 100% critchance), no icd.

    But don't tell me "but necro gets a lot of critchance for free" mesmer does as well. And there's after the last patch only very few people running decimate defenses now.
    Also mesmers trait is bugged so it does up to 40k dmg in wvw and on players in pve (guildhall fights)

    Your thread is basically about: they nerfed only guardian, they did nothing to mesmer,kitten they even buffed them! And random complaints about ele.


    Power block.
    December 11, 2018
    The damage of this skill has been increased by 20% so that it now matches its tooltip. This trait can no longer critically hit foes.


    Shattered aegis.
    December 11, 2018
    The damage of this trait has been increased by 20% in PvE only. This trait can no longer critically hit.

    Why didnt you mention this? You can see only how they made a positive change from a dead trait? Unacceptable ! HOW THEY DARE TO GIVE MESMER GOOD TRAITS?!

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    You also want to compare traits that are nothing alike? That you pretend its bugged in GH arena is irrelevant, even tho there is no evidence except cropped screenshots. Its never happens in pvp, otherwise I would see this at least once and other players too.
    In fact before necro recieved no crit treatment they almost killed you with autoprocs when your health drop below 50% and how many times reaper damage got boosted? Not compensated/buffed this poor reapers... /s

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Guardian - Shattered Aegis: The damage of this trait has been increased by 20% in PvE only. This trait can no longer critically hit.

    Mesmer - Lost Time: This trait now delivers its slowing strike when the mesmer disables their target instead of after the mesmer has built charges. Its base strike damage has been reduced by 50%, but its critical-hit damage has been increased by 100%.

    Apple and orange.
    SA is a reactive trait (proc when aegis is used) while LT is a proactive trait (proc when you actively manage to CC a target).
    Reactive traits are seen as passive effects while proactive trait are active effects. There is a will behind the effect when you use a proactive trait while there isn't when you use a reactive trait. Reactive traits punish your foes for something that they do willingly or unwillingly while proactive traits reward you for something that you do willingly.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Reactive traits are seen as passive effects
    There is a will behind the effect when you use a proactive trait while there isn't when you use a reactive trait.

    they're not tho.
    when I press a button that provides aegis, there is definitely a will behind it lol.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    You also want to compare traits that are nothing alike? That you pretend its bugged in GH arena is irrelevant, even tho there is no evidence except cropped screenshots. Its never happens in pvp, otherwise I would see this at least once and other players too.

    Just to make it clear and because I'm sick of being called a liar: there was a raid tournament in EU.
    Lost time trait got banned due to evidence (screenshots of my guildmates) that it's bugged and actually does these big hits sometimes.

    In fact before necro recieved no crit treatment they almost killed you with autoprocs when your health drop below 50% and how many times reaper damage got boosted? Not compensated/buffed this poor reapers... /s

    I don't say that those proc nerfs from going into shroud weren't justified or even the lesser spinal shivers.
    But the nerf to chilling nova wasn't justified.
    Since it's aoe dmg I can understand the icd but the other part that it has two condition that have to get fulfilled?

    Yeah, we got some compensation, 5% more dmg on chilled targets. But that was after anet recognized, that they nerfed reaper in pve.
    And the last patch (souleater change) was to try to bring DPS in line with other professions but you do loose up to 50% critchance for that

  • Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    Guardian - Shattered Aegis: The damage of this trait has been increased by 20% in PvE only. This trait can no longer critically hit.

    Mesmer - Lost Time: This trait now delivers its slowing strike when the mesmer disables their target instead of after the mesmer has built charges. Its base strike damage has been reduced by 50%, but its critical-hit damage has been increased by 100%.

    Apple and orange.
    SA is a reactive trait (proc when aegis is used) while LT is a proactive trait (proc when you actively manage to CC a target).
    Reactive traits are seen as passive effects while proactive trait are active effects. There is a will behind the effect when you use a proactive trait while there isn't when you use a reactive trait. Reactive traits punish your foes for something that they do willingly or unwillingly while proactive traits reward you for something that you do willingly.

    I'm not so sure that's really true, as you can build around proccing Aegis to punish an enemy. If you are talking about the passive tick of Aegis, then maybe? But what about all the skills that you can cast Aegis with? Is it any different if someone is casting a skill and I interrupt them vs. someone is casting a skill, so I pop Aegis to block and punish them? Both are proactive forms of play, no?

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