how do you beat good guild groups other than blobbing them down?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@MalinBlume.9314 said:I notice that dodging is a very common answer here too and I agree--especially in a long term fight. For glassy specs like scourge (which you absolutely need to dodge and survive to do damage later on), is it preferable to take dual superior sigil of energy over other sigils--if not on one weapon.

[this is for like a long term fight situation or GvG]

everyone should be running double energy.you can even go with double stamina to boost your survivability a ton if you want.

[SkyShroud.2865]

Blob them smartly.Throw spellbreakers in to bubble one after another and cloud them from every direction, pull their players immediately after their stab went off.Have a lot of ranger pin snipe the tag.However, while is easy to think of a way to kill, it isn't easy to find the right people to carry out the strategy.However, while you can blob them, it doesn't stop them to blob up with pugs later on, eventually you still gonna lose out anyway, it isn't hard to find numbers on prime time, especially when you already got a chunk of people from guild itself.

[Honest John.4673]

Yeah man, believe this reply has a deep message in being patient and all of this being in a game. I am a competitive person and I strive to be better... (which would also increase the efficiency of getting bags). Part of the reason why I like WvW over PVE is because you have to--in most cases-- think of the ways you're going to get bags instead of following a commander like a robot. I feel a sense of accomplishment when defeating others. But you're right, it doesn't come over night and... having these good groups to fight is probably one of the best content right now. Imagine a game without really strong enemies and you would W key everyone XD.

No one actually cares about the bags, they're just a symbolic representation of the kills you get.

But, if you're actually serious about being competitive and striving to get better then the next logical step would be to go ahead and join one of these guilds. There's only so much you can learn from bugging the PUG Comm or randos in squad.

Apart from upgrading yourself from being a nameless, faceless pug in a random zerg, joining a guild gives you the tools you need to get better. Plenty will be happy to provide builds (and the materials needed to make them), footage review, and all the tips and tricks required to improve your gameplay. Not to mention comped squads and voice comms for coordination.

Join one that'll take you in and cares about your progress as a player. Find one with a proven track record at this. If you don't see results, or feel like you/the guild is stagnating, join a different one. Get to know the larger wvw guild community, and the guild you're in, should you choose to join one. You'll reap tons of rewards, and yes, bags.

The longer you've been at an improved (and continually improving) skill level than your average pug, and the longer you've been raiding as a part of a tight knit guild, the more fun you'll have and you'll never want to go back to being a pug again.

[shiri.4257]

1) join the server with the guilds you like the most.2) join all the guilds so you can be part of the shared player base and properly chest thump3) learn the mechanics with said guilds4) When you start losing in wvw, make up your own game mode and get a GvG tatoo (it adds +100% wvw dodge roll)5) Worst case scenario; transfer and reform with same player base.

[Noha.3749]

TBH

Fighting ~10-20 enemies that stick tight to eachother, havin 50% supports, some utility champs (chronos etc) and some dps is just boring.They usually just camp somewere near spawn before/after primetime and sure they do get some kills and makes life annoying for randoms.

These small deathstars get countered by either getting surrounded by range dps, you dont really need more numbers but you need to strategically pop their CDs and wither them down. Important is that you dont close in on them since thats where they shine, keep surrounding, dont just stand in a loose groupformation and get run down by them. Also MAKE SURE you kill their downs, have some random fella just run in and finish with kitty or its all for nothing.

Other option is:Get a better deathstar.Get better boonstrip and corrupts and bring the deeps. Tell the randoms (rangers/teefs etc. that you find around) to focus down on specific targets while you rip and distract them.

[SwagDAD.4356]

Do you mean DIS? And what about bear, I heard they are beary good.

[Farout.8207]

that bear guild is scary.

[Tiawal.2351]

It's good asking, but in the end there's a limit how much a commander can do. Easiest way to win is by getting better players, leading badly may still get some of them killed (and they may stop following after a while), but newbies/bad players vs. experienced/good players is a no contest, unless you can outnumber them by far, and even then only with players who still know which skill to use and when, and have fairly useful builds (and then they are almost good)

There are no tricks that anyone could share here and aren't already known by the groups you would fight, so they can easily counter it. These aren't fair fights at all. Same numbers AND same quality would be, or less quality one side and more numbers the other, but numbers alone can't counter endlessly because map limit. Outnumbering them can help, IF your players can survive enough while also doing enough damage to kill them... so we are back to playing quality again, because numbers alone means just giving more bags. Many newbies can't even target, they don't hit anything. And some old players aren't better either. Not everybody bothers to learn how to, best case they just press buttons randomly and expect to win, because sometimes they do - when there are others carrying them. Get a lot of these and a win becomes impossible: you won't have sustain when is needed and you either won't have damage or will be spread all over, killing none.

That's why decent commanders don't allow just anyone into a squad if they want to win fights. Of course that means that the commander is at least decent, but that's another story.

[Farout.8207]

beary scary

[shiri.4257]

@Joey.2769 said:Do you mean DIS? And what about bear, I heard they are beary good.

better yet, ask joey to carry your squad from spawn.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@"MalinBlume.9314" said:currently on JQ linked with AR and we're facing FC and HoD

I want to know some insights from some previous commanders/regular core players wondering how to BEAT or at least fight better against this group with these components:

• full comms
• aware players
• and a group with a fair share of supports (firebrands, and scrappers, and maybe other variations)

just want to know what you guys think on how to fight the groups listed below.

starting with the people my server is facing rn:HoD has one good guild that I know of and that's Midnight Mafia never fought them

but as for FC, they have some guilds that run small but somehow manage to just absolutely blow up our pugmanders and sometimes even our full 50 in comms:

• TBT (they are super small each time but extremely good)
• PMA (they ran open yesterday and absolutely farmed 4 of our really good commanders, the core was solid)
• VR (haven't really ran this week but I'll just mention because when I was on TC, the one thing I remember was Maguuma's VR casually farming our EBG keep like its nothing)
• Tkx (they had like 13-15 people but ran like 6 scourges and blew up 42 people in squad last night)
• there are other groups but they probably haven't tagged this week
• eXa (I haven't really seen them run small but I do recall them being on FC and actually being one of the really good guilds who used portal bomb really well)

I'll also mention these other guilds which are just extremely broken... (as in skilled)

• Wavy (well.. this one's pretty self-explanatory. These guys are just extremely good, they won two GvG tourneys and managed to get 5-0 twice in the finals. even more to say they managed to beat really extraordinary groups like VR, RISE, TBT)
• DED (guys recently moved to BP alliance apparently and have been rumored to be "farming Cookie"-- which is actually a feat because runs massive)
• RISE (I have to say this group is still solid. though i haven't seen them in GvG's. their experience in T1 has really tempered their abilities)
• XVX (these guys are also quite good along with RISE. and are full of experienced players)
• KEK (i can never take these guys seriously because of their name but they're skilled)
• Hate (bullyfoot mostly blobs nowadays but they're still quite solid)
• VII
• DI5
• BP

Here are some really decent groups I know on my server:

• SF (they run open and the commander's good, but when they run closed they have the basics down and have a really good comp (as in rev heavy))
• RED (they have some very aware players and insightful ones)
• VP (VP runs closed most of the time but I saw them beat back VR a couple of times in a scrimmage on our BL)
• OnS (onslaught has just been known to be really decent, even though they run big, I do believe they have the basics down and even more)

Those guilds you mention in FC are indeed strong.And at least half of those other guilds you listed should be on BG/link.You fight good guilds with good guilds.Unfortunately, when you stack good guilds on one or two server...

Why post factually incorrect information?

Is it to further the BG is evil narrative?

And if you don’t know, why post?

Man... I never thought I’d want a downvote button..,

I hope for your health's sake that you are commenting with an even emotion =DHopefully you're not getting emotional over something or someone that is of little consequence in your life.Of course, if you just meant to be a white knight and be critical towards me, please allow me to direct you to this thread.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/78559/tips-to-manage-salt-and-toxicity-in-wvw

Hmm? I just figured pointing out ignorance when needed is important.

?

Hope your day gets better!

[Ni In.6578]

It takes practice with others who want to try hard. You need to understand that criticism of your play is not personal -- the cmdr wants you to git gud. To counter most of these groups will require tight coordination which is something you're not going to find in your average group and random tags.

TL;DR: Git gud; don't die.

Oh and if you want the authoritative list of top guilds, take a look at https://saltybeavers.com/.

[MalinBlume.9314]

yeah, I'm seeing commonality from everyone here -- forming up a guild and improving with them with players who seek improvement will be nice

and yeah as for the above I remember those guilds are quite good, especially in 2017-2018, that I saw from before haha. I just put my own list there from the guilds i noticed have been active and just been nice these days

NO salt meant ... but idk about DOC there XD

[Chaba.5410]

Clearly the answer is to build a ton of arrow carts.

[Sovereign.1093]

sometimes, you just have to accept that some players are better than you.

[MalinBlume.9314]

@"Chaba.5410" ... welll as much as I'd like to... it's just boring playing siege monkey for 2 hours.

I genuinely think this game has a really good combat system perhaps even more than BDO (P2win) and Blade and Soul--especially in PVP. The fact that we need to think about traits and playstyles in order to counter groups with what we have. E.G for necros, taking "close to death" over #3 in spite will sacrifice the shade boonstrip for the extra damage .. but will help you finish your downs and perhaps rally your allies. Or even the ideas of blast fields / combo fields -- in WvW and bigger groups we take advantage of this but haven't yet fully explored it (E.g. with stealth) and many other combinations.

I feel like sitting on AC's for hours or building mortars knocking groups back (unless you actually need to) would be... a waste you know. Gotta take advantage of our combat system! And the only way to get better is, like everyone says, to fight groups better than you ... rather than tagging down after one wipe or dodging the enemy group to PPT instead of fight. I've seen it a couple of times on other servers and on my server as well.

And @Ni ln.6578 I did hear TW and Dods were returning on Kaineng to revive the server. Also heard Xushin is back on Maguuma with [CTH]

[Chaba.5410]

@MalinBlume.9314 said:@Chaba.5410 ... welll as much as I'd like to... it's just boring playing siege monkey for 2 hours.

I feel you. Unfortunately that's the way this game is designed. If you can't beat them skill-wise, use numbers. Glad they nerfed arrow carts.

[Optimator.3589]

Get the 3rd server in the matchup to show up to where you're fighting and skill lag the enemy to death. Might skill lag you to death, too. The randomness is half the fun!

[MalinBlume.9314]

@Optimator.3589 hell yeah dude. Cookie of BG's main tactic is to skill lag the enemy to death. (just kidding, he actually a good commander on top of that)

[neven.3785]

Xushin just uses us for guild buffs x.x

[Ni In.6578]

@MalinBlume.9314 said:And @Ni ln.6578 I did hear TW and Dods were returning on Kaineng to revive the server. Also heard Xushin is back on Maguuma with [CTH]

Xushin is back as of Memorial Day, yes. He's so skilled, he plays like he's playing against himself. Big brain stuff. Biggest brain you'll find in WvW, in fact. I don't know of a bigger brain. Not a smooth brain, either.

As for Dods, he picks one ded game after another to stream. I'm not sure if he came back to this one, or not.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@MalinBlume.9314 said:@"ArchonWing.9480" yeah, it is quite hard to cloud most of these groups. And yeah... getting farmed in EBG keep. FC had a 2.0-3.0 KDR in EU timezone simply by farming our keep and HoD's and the pugs who sadly kept going in yesterday as well QQ. Is it possible, with enough AC's and other defensive sieges to repel a decent group of 50?

It goes along with the "boredom" strategy with cows and random ballistas to blow up siege as it gets built. With mounts your people will usually win by attrition unless they are running in seperately or are really uncoordinated.

It takes about 1-2 fights to figure out if your group is worth helping, or is a lost cause. if there is no scouting (eg. They're in the lord room omg come now!!!)111 or chicken little callers that call for backup against 3 people or something every 2 minutes you're going to lose that stuff anyways. Just let it burn and don't feed them points.

[TheBravery.9615]

synchronized snipes

100 to dead in 2 seconds or less.

[sephiroth.4217]

which RISE?

Opposing all odds we RISE were dismembered by someone put into power that mass kicked everyone.

Not too mention Seraph who was RISEs driver left the game like 2 years ago as far as I know..

If they rebooted under a different name but same players like rip, gnar, henry and seraph it would be nice to know ☺

[anonymous.7812]

@sephiroth.4217 said:which RISE?

Opposing all odds we RISE were dismembered by someone put into power that mass kicked everyone.

Not too mention Seraph who was RISEs driver left the game like 2 years ago as far as I know..

If they rebooted under a different name but same players like rip, gnar, henry and seraph it would be nice to know ☺

Primordus Virtus aka Jarvan's RISE .. pretty sure they're the only RISE that anyone would reference in the WvW forum.