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[Raid] Why BiS DPS builds often are a bad choice to bring in pug fullclears


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@Iris Ng.9845 said:I had a guildie who would always bring rifle DE to Xera because it's recommended by SC as Best DPS, even in a training run where everything fails miserably:

Am I in an alternate universe? When did Rifle Deadeye become meta for Xera on the SC website?

As for OP, I don't believe you. I very rarely see what you described. I raid on EU so if you're on NA then maybe it's a region thing.

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@Moona.6327 said:I've avoided raiding in this game, I did a boss couple weeks ago, and literally the boss mechanics have you knocked down 90% of the fight, not fun design, I hated it, I stuck with open world instead.

There is no raid boss that knock you down 90% of the time, if there is then your group is doing the mechanic wrong.

Which one did you do?

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@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Moona.6327 said:I've avoided raiding in this game, I did a boss couple weeks ago, and literally the boss mechanics have you knocked down 90% of the fight, not fun design, I hated it, I stuck with open world instead.

There is no raid boss that knock you down 90% of the time, if there is then your group is doing the mechanic wrong.

Which one did you do?

Sounds like unexpierienced Cairn ;)

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Anything can be dealt with with the appropriate amount of counterplay. There is a rather easy solution to an overload of stuns and knockdowns, just like there is a way to avoid red circles or easy to read attacks. There is certainly no boss in place that forces you to spend 90% of the fight knocked down without any way to avoid said situation. I wouldn't consider anything that doesn't require even the most basic understanding of the game "fun" myself but each their own in the end. Any content has a target audience.

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The boss fight was Cairn, most ridiculous design i've ever seen in a game, literally spent more than half the fight face down, can barely get any kind of damage rotation going before you're mindlessly and incessantly interrupted and on the ground again.

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@Moona.6327 said:The boss fight was Cairn, most ridiculous design i've ever seen in a game, literally spent more than half the fight face down, can barely get any kind of damage rotation going before you're mindlessly and incessantly interrupted and on the ground again.

So if you get knocked down constantly either one of two things happened.

First: You weren't in the middle. If you put the shaders on medium you'll see a some sort of circle in the ground. This is the safe zone for the third part of his AA where he spawns shards that will knock you away. Quite a lot of people are getting constantly knocked because they are not in the safe zone and they don't see it ( a lot of people you put shaders on low here )Second: Someone reflected the shards quite often. Shards still knock you down if they are reflected.

There are two other knock down abilities. First his LONG DICK OF JUSTICE. Where he transforms his right arm into a pole. slams it on the ground and does a 360 with it. If you see the arm on the ground then and it moves, just dodge to the right.Second is his teleport ability, just don't be in his way and wait until he is in the middle again before moving to a green. I still see quite a few people getting knocked off the platform due to them being impatient.

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@Moona.6327 said:The boss fight was Cairn, most ridiculous design i've ever seen in a game, literally spent more than half the fight face down, can barely get any kind of damage rotation going before you're mindlessly and incessantly interrupted and on the ground again.

That's because your group did the fight incorrectly.

Cairn targets the person furthest away from the group with his range attack which cause knock down if you are hit. So the general idea is to have a person stand on the edge of the platform and just focus on tanking the attacks. This is generally either a healer with some sort of projectile destruction such as druid or renegade, you can also do it on a couple other classes like scourge and deadeye but those 2 are the safest. The rest of the group then stand behind him and do your rotation while not get teleported.

The other attack could be the giant aoe sweep that happens a couple times in the fight which you can dodge.

I am assuming your group had no kiter which caused the issue. You can definitely beat it while standing in the middle if your group knows how to deal with it either stability or projectile destruction. However since this probably sounds like a new group, get a kiter.

tl;dr: Your group did the mechanic wrong. Would be better if you guys read or watch a guide.

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@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Moona.6327 said:The boss fight was Cairn, most ridiculous design i've ever seen in a game, literally spent more than half the fight face down, can barely get any kind of damage rotation going before you're mindlessly and incessantly interrupted and on the ground again.

That's because your group did the fight incorrectly.

Cairn targets the person furthest away from the group with his range attack which cause knock down if you are hit. So the general idea is to have a person stand on the edge of the group and just focus on tanking the attacks. This is generally either a healer with some sort of projectile destruction such as druid or renegade, you can also do it on a couple other classes like scourge but those 2 are the safest. The rest of the group then stand behind him and do your rotation.

The other attack could be the giant aoe sweep that happens a couple times in the fight which you can dodge.

I am assuming your group had no kiter which caused the issue. You can definitely beat it while standing in the middle if your group knows how to deal with it either stability or projectile destruction. However since this probably sounds like a new group, get a kiter.

tl;dr: Your group did the mechanic wrong.

Thing is you don't need projectile destruction or stability on the boss. Just stand close enough and you won't get hit by the shards. Don't reflect the shards and you'll be fine.

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@Walhalla.5473 said:

@Moona.6327 said:The boss fight was Cairn, most ridiculous design i've ever seen in a game, literally spent more than half the fight face down, can barely get any kind of damage rotation going before you're mindlessly and incessantly interrupted and on the ground again.

That's because your group did the fight incorrectly.

Cairn targets the person furthest away from the group with his range attack which cause knock down if you are hit. So the general idea is to have a person stand on the edge of the group and just focus on tanking the attacks. This is generally either a healer with some sort of projectile destruction such as druid or renegade, you can also do it on a couple other classes like scourge but those 2 are the safest. The rest of the group then stand behind him and do your rotation.

The other attack could be the giant aoe sweep that happens a couple times in the fight which you can dodge.

I am assuming your group had no kiter which caused the issue. You can definitely beat it while standing in the middle if your group knows how to deal with it either stability or projectile destruction. However since this probably sounds like a new group, get a kiter.

tl;dr: Your group did the mechanic wrong.

Thing is you don't need projectile destruction or stability on the boss. Just stand close enough and you won't get hit by the shards. Don't reflect the shards and you'll be fine.

Yes, but some groups like to just all stack on the boss and phase fast enough so you can keep up projectile destruction or stability. You just need an entire group of people who knows how to burst and people who knows how to rotate through their stab or projectile defense. That's probably not the case here but I just point it out in case.

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@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Moona.6327 said:The boss fight was Cairn, most ridiculous design i've ever seen in a game, literally spent more than half the fight face down, can barely get any kind of damage rotation going before you're mindlessly and incessantly interrupted and on the ground again.

That's because your group did the fight incorrectly.

Cairn targets the person furthest away from the group with his range attack which cause knock down if you are hit. So the general idea is to have a person stand on the edge of the group and just focus on tanking the attacks. This is generally either a healer with some sort of projectile destruction such as druid or renegade, you can also do it on a couple other classes like scourge but those 2 are the safest. The rest of the group then stand behind him and do your rotation.

The other attack could be the giant aoe sweep that happens a couple times in the fight which you can dodge.

I am assuming your group had no kiter which caused the issue. You can definitely beat it while standing in the middle if your group knows how to deal with it either stability or projectile destruction. However since this probably sounds like a new group, get a kiter.

tl;dr: Your group did the mechanic wrong.

Thing is you don't need projectile destruction or stability on the boss. Just stand close enough and you won't get hit by the shards. Don't reflect the shards and you'll be fine.

Yes, but some groups like to just all stack on the boss and phase fast enough so you can keep up projectile destruction or stability. You just need an entire group of people who knows how to burst and people who knows how to rotate through their stab or projectile defense. That's probably not the case here but I just point it out in case.

Stability is useful for no-greens strats where you just heal thru the AoE. And doing no-greens at Cairn means that people don't need to run away from center which means they won't get messed up by the shards after greens.Projectile destruction isn't needed indeed if people stand within the carved circle with dpsers on one side and agonies on the other sides out of stack. But in not-so-experienced squads (Read: training, semi-exp and 95% of exp pug squads) at least some agony person (usually all of them) decide to go kiting outside the circle instead and in those cases using a projectile destruction at their direction helps avoid unnecessarily unnecessary downs.

Or someone decides to play power daredevil for whatever (usually unthoughtful) reason, projectile destruction does help at reducing the reflected shards. Kitty wants to scream everytime she gets spinned around directly under the boss due to some reflect. <.<

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