Why "win"? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why "win"?

c space cowboy.2764c space cowboy.2764 Member ✭✭✭

After two years of wvw as my main game play in guild wars, I've come to the realization that the only reason to win or lose a weekly matchup is to go up or down tiers.

Wheres the incentive to win?

<1

Comments

  • godofcows.2451godofcows.2451 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2019

    The ranger that focused you last mu is on a tier above so you must win so you can corpse jump him.
    Oh wait, this is the same thing...

    Seriously though, there's no incentive unless you want to fight another server or tank down.

  • Eliren.4985Eliren.4985 Member ✭✭

    If wvw had a endgame there would be no players left in wvw.... Thats the whole point of wvw, its never ending "giant pvp / pvd / pve battles" that never end. The only reason there's tiers is so that they can split up the servers as they cant have all in one place + they want to make things "even" although they kitten that part up by allowing BG a link.

  • Honest John.4673Honest John.4673 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eliren.4985 said:
    If wvw had a endgame there would be no players left in wvw.... Thats the whole point of wvw, its never ending "giant pvp / pvd / pve battles" that never end. The only reason there's tiers is so that they can split up the servers as they cant have all in one place + they want to make things "even" although they kitten that part up by allowing BG a link.

    But if I'm in T1 that means my server is good at the game! And if we win the match-up that means my server, and therefore me by extension, is better than all the other people on all the other servers. I could not play all week, log in for the last 15 minutes of the match-up, see my server winning, and be content in the fact I am a superior player to all other players not on my server. :)

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2019

    No rewards for winning. Also PPK and PPT are not equal. Servers that hard PPT want to go vs those that PPT, and the few left that PPK climb and drop tiers searching for fights.

    To balance this, maybe place rewards for highest score and for most kills.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't care about winning but being in first makes my pip farm take a bit less time, which is nice.

    so you are still salty about that.

  • Honest John.4673Honest John.4673 Member ✭✭✭

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

  • @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Fun is subjective. Your opinion of fun isn’t necessarily shared by others. To some people fun is passing time in a relaxed way and if that involves doing what you said then who are you to tell them differently?

  • Korgov.7645Korgov.7645 Member ✭✭✭

    @c space cowboy.2764 said:
    After two years of wvw as my main game play in guild wars, I've come to the realization that the only reason to win or lose a weekly matchup is to go up or down tiers.

    Wheres the incentive to win?

    This is a known issue and ANet is working really hard to address it. Maybe in the next patch; keep reading those release notes.

    "Currently we can’t give out worthwhile rewards for winning, as most match-ups are already decided before they begin"
    Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Let-s-Talk-Scoring/page/1

  • Honest John.4673Honest John.4673 Member ✭✭✭

    @DeathPanel.8362 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Fun is subjective. Your opinion of fun isn’t necessarily shared by others. To some people fun is passing time in a relaxed way and if that involves doing what you said then who are you to tell them differently?

    It makes no difference what players think of fights. Fights endure. As well ask players what they think of stone. Fights were always here. Before the game was, fights waited for them. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2019

    Has there ever been any game where there was a reason for winning?

    I also find it amusing that people question it now, 7 years after release. Its a little like questioning why anyone could ever enjoy Classic WoW, whats even the point?

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • I feel like some, if not, many of us get a feeling of pleasure from winning. I--for one--am a competitive person whether it be in gaming or sports. I FEEL GOOD when I trample others and feel better, and I feel down when I'm defeated (but that becomes another incentive to win... because I lost...) SO A PARADOX... and maybe

    maybe maybe maybe... Hence the name "Eternal Battlegrounds"...

    (just kidding)

    but mostly not kidding tho.
    We play video games for entertainment... in real life we actually gain nothing. and the most entertaining part... well for me, in video games, is being the best at it. And most of the time, doing what you cannot do irl.

  • enkidu.5937enkidu.5937 Member ✭✭✭

    Its a team game.

    For the "team" part, you obviously need a common goal that everyone tries to achieve., to make ppl play together. Usually this common goal is winning.

    For the "game" part, you just have to make winning some kind of meaningless, to get rid of the try hards and thus let everyone else having fun, which is the purpose of a game.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @c space cowboy.2764 said:
    After two years of wvw as my main game play in guild wars, I've come to the realization that the only reason to win or lose a weekly matchup is to go up or down tiers.

    Wheres the incentive to win?

    no particular reason game based. :/

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • SexyMofo.8923SexyMofo.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    The extra pip is worth it so I am leave sooner.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Welcome to being aware

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    no, players stack servers so its easy wins. minimal effort. lazy ppl. thats why servers get stacked. after all why learn the game when you can just be carried by the game?

  • @Legendary Defender.5631 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    no, players stack servers so its easy wins. minimal effort. lazy ppl. thats why servers get stacked. after all why learn the game when you can just be carried by the game?

    Happens in every team game where team change is allowed. The thing is these players tend not to be good and become a drag on their new team and when eventually the core of good players in the winning team moves on the winning team will no longer be winning.

    Those original team swappers will then try to join a new winning team and repeat the process never learning the lesson that ultimately it’s people like them that make their team lose in the first place. It’s not only a fact of competitive games but a fact of life in general.

  • Blackarps.1974Blackarps.1974 Member ✭✭✭

    Winning as a server means nothing. Server pride is gone except for servers like Blackgate. Fight guilds enjoy the bragging rights but after 2-3 years now of the same guilds, its pretty obvious who the top 3 are. At least on NA anyways.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Bc fighting is fun, and if you are going to fight then you are going to either win or lose, and winning is more fun than losing . . .

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    Has there ever been any game where there was a reason for winning?

    Or let's put it like this. Does anyone regularly state "I really enjoy losing. I love to just run around on a naked uplevel not using skills dying over and over"

  • CrimsonNeonite.1048CrimsonNeonite.1048 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2019

    There is no point in winning a Match up, other than to get a better/new server(s) to fight.
    There's not much server pride anymore, because of server linkings and even Tournaments weren't that competitive anyway, but there are so many T1 tryhards, until the relink, at least on whoever ends up #1 for so many weeks on the EU side.

  • Farout.8207Farout.8207 Member ✭✭✭

    Rarely am I even aware who is winning or losing. I'm honestly surprised each week by my servers new color. It is mostly pointless.

    ~Cleetus

  • Honest John.4673Honest John.4673 Member ✭✭✭

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Unfortunately, the game isn't just about you.

    Imagine being as bad of a player now as you were in 2012. Just imagine.

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    wait.. i want to win but i do not wanna win permanent what am i now?
    i mean all cool to win and stuff but when u never lose im out, where the joy? no challange nothing <- this why i dont play PvE u dont lose.. i mean a npc hardcoded using skills and has X amount of HP is just a punchbag to me.

    i wanna lose in order to trigger my self to win or beat that guy or w/e.
    lucky me i dont always win so im still having a blast :D

  • Lala.8752Lala.8752 Member ✭✭✭

    win is useless it's why i don't undserstand ppt boys

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2019

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Unfortunately, the game isn't just about you.

    Imagine being as bad of a player now as you were in 2012. Just imagine.

    Imagine not able to accept objective opinions as you were 7 years ago, just imagine.

    Founder & Retired Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi
    https://discord.gg/P5dj7fd

  • Honest John.4673Honest John.4673 Member ✭✭✭

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Unfortunately, the game isn't just about you.

    Imagine being as bad of a player now as you were in 2012. Just imagine.

    Imagine not able to accept objective opinions as you were 7 years ago, just imagine.

    He can't come up with a response so he just says "no u"

    Grow up.

  • Grim West.3194Grim West.3194 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2019

    There is ZERO meta game in ANET's version of RvR. It's a garbage mode designed to suck money from the bandwagon players without a clue.

    There use to be rewards for winning, but ANET couldn't figure out how to keep hackers from stealing the items. So ANET gave up and took rewards out of WvW.

    ANET blamed JQ for all of their WvW problems for a while, so they let BlackGate cheat the system to overstack while blocking JQ. But that created more problems, so ANET gave up again and just abandoned WvW. ANET lets BlackGate remain overstacked because there are still a few bandwagon players out there without a clue willing to spend real money to transfer to the server of the week.

    ANET's promises for Alliances are all hot air designed to suck more money from the bandwagon players. Which worked for a couple of years, but even that BS has worn thin.

    Basically, ANET gave up and the result is the useless garbage WvW has become.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    why not tho?

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Trajan.4953Trajan.4953 Member ✭✭✭

    O p, this is the rub really isn't it? There is no point in winning , for server at least so it boils down to Guild Pride, which arenanet has consistently failed to recognize as a valid combat or competition format.

    Currently you have servers that are merged with long dead servers that try to remain with some semblance of pride and you have the remnants of the OG WVW player base roaming in Mercenary guilds that simply look for fights which are contrary to those who look to defend. The Guild groups massively outclass and outskill any pugs and immediately send them running back to Siege and walls and PPT so invariably they end up frustrated and shifting servers to find more fights, the cycle continues ad infinitum.

    There is no winning in this game mode, the best of the best players are already in their groups and they are not going anywhere everybody else is just meat for the grinder and well aware of it. So it's half PVP half Tower Defense, welcome to WVW

  • As I always understood it, the point of WvW isn't to win, but to play well. You get reward track experience and skirmish chests for being personally successful, as well as loot bags from fallen enemies.

    Though a server award for winning sounds good, I'm afraid of what it'll do to the community. Imagine PUG raid toxicity cranked up and spread across 100 players, just because they want the award at the end of the week.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Brother.1504Brother.1504 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wvw is a cult of personality. I would argue that guilds don’t matter more then the popular commanders. There are commanders that people will play extra hours and switch builds to join. The preferred commander.

    Rewards are better now then in the past and the community is always thirsty for wealth in some form. Material rewards are very subjective.

    In the end for competitive personalities winning will always be preferable to losing. Simple as that.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2019

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Unfortunately, the game isn't just about you.

    Imagine being as bad of a player now as you were in 2012. Just imagine.

    Imagine not able to accept objective opinions as you were 7 years ago, just imagine.

    He can't come up with a response so he just says "no u"

    Grow up.

    I was trying to be subtle but you can't get the hint, I was telling you to grow up. Almost every opinion, if not all the opinions you have is all about yourself.

    Founder & Retired Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi
    https://discord.gg/P5dj7fd

  • Gorani.7205Gorani.7205 Member ✭✭✭

    "Winning" vs other servers had been Anet's idea of balancing stronger vs. weaker servers. We all know that this has not worked and they switched to the "band-aid" of linking servers (which doesn't really solve the problems either).
    "Scoring points" did matter in the past, because your server gained buffs for each player on that server (like +% to MF, crafting criticals, gathering etc.). They removed that when they introduced the mega-server system for PvE (with Eu and NA mega servers). I remember doing my crafting and discoveries on Friday before the WvW reset for a higher chance of crafting XP to use less fine materials to advance my crafting levels. I kind of liked that system, because even if you played well in WvW (higher score), you as an individual player got a benefit - despite ending up on third place.

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭

    Haven't been looking to "win" in years. I just want good/strange/troubling stories.

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • Currently, I'm fighting on lost ground, playing on a server that's been stuck in T5 for weeks. My only goal is to try and push people to give their best so that maybe we can leave this pit one day. After everything that I've been through on this server you can't imagine the satisfaction I feel whenever I see other people jumping the train, putting in effort and us slowly improving and making progress as a community. Seriously, at the moment we're not even talking about winning matchups, simply winning fights is a sensation. I used to play in T1 as well and I sure as hell miss GvGs and farming bags in SM, but kitten, pulling some strings in the background and try and direct a whole community in one direction (well, if you're already at the bottom the only way is up so there honestly is no other direction) is so much more rewarding than "winning".

  • Honest John.4673Honest John.4673 Member ✭✭✭

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Unfortunately, the game isn't just about you.

    Imagine being as bad of a player now as you were in 2012. Just imagine.

    Imagine not able to accept objective opinions as you were 7 years ago, just imagine.

    He can't come up with a response so he just says "no u"

    Grow up.

    I was trying to be subtle but you can't get the hint, I was telling you to grow up. Almost every opinion, if not all the opinions you have is all about yourself.

    Oh yeah, I'm sure that I'm the only person in this entire game mode that likes fights. Everyone else likes sitting around waiting to pvd a door down and karma train, treating wvw like it's pve. Who do you think outnumbers who at this point in the game's lifespan? You're probably one of 5 people on your entire server who cares about the score at the end of the week and ties it to some harebrained idea of server pride.

    Winning the week doesn't make you good at the game dude, hate to break it to ya. Or did you spend 18 hours a day all 7 days of the week coordinating with literally everyone else on your server to win? No, it didn't happen. Match-ups are decided before they begin. No amount of individual effort makes a difference. This isn't 2013 anymore. There are no tournaments. Off hours coverage and population determine the score. A tower sitting T3 overnight won it for you, not you playing. It's pure delusion to think otherwise, which feeds into a hefty sense of ego.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2019

    WvW has always been about the journey, not the destination. Be that for PPKers, PPTers, or PPXers. It's about going there, not getting there.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Unfortunately, the game isn't just about you.

    Imagine being as bad of a player now as you were in 2012. Just imagine.

    Imagine not able to accept objective opinions as you were 7 years ago, just imagine.

    He can't come up with a response so he just says "no u"

    Grow up.

    I was trying to be subtle but you can't get the hint, I was telling you to grow up. Almost every opinion, if not all the opinions you have is all about yourself.

    Oh yeah, I'm sure that I'm the only person in this entire game mode that likes fights. Everyone else likes sitting around waiting to pvd a door down and karma train, treating wvw like it's pve. Who do you think outnumbers who at this point in the game's lifespan? You're probably one of 5 people on your entire server who cares about the score at the end of the week and ties it to some harebrained idea of server pride.

    Winning the week doesn't make you good at the game dude, hate to break it to ya. Or did you spend 18 hours a day all 7 days of the week coordinating with literally everyone else on your server to win? No, it didn't happen. Match-ups are decided before they begin. No amount of individual effort makes a difference. This isn't 2013 anymore. There are no tournaments. Off hours coverage and population determine the score. A tower sitting T3 overnight won it for you, not you playing. It's pure delusion to think otherwise, which feeds into a hefty sense of ego.

    The game isn't just about you. If you really can't understand the 6 words, you really need work on it.

    Founder & Retired Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi
    https://discord.gg/P5dj7fd

  • Honest John.4673Honest John.4673 Member ✭✭✭

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Unfortunately, the game isn't just about you.

    Imagine being as bad of a player now as you were in 2012. Just imagine.

    Imagine not able to accept objective opinions as you were 7 years ago, just imagine.

    He can't come up with a response so he just says "no u"

    Grow up.

    I was trying to be subtle but you can't get the hint, I was telling you to grow up. Almost every opinion, if not all the opinions you have is all about yourself.

    Oh yeah, I'm sure that I'm the only person in this entire game mode that likes fights. Everyone else likes sitting around waiting to pvd a door down and karma train, treating wvw like it's pve. Who do you think outnumbers who at this point in the game's lifespan? You're probably one of 5 people on your entire server who cares about the score at the end of the week and ties it to some harebrained idea of server pride.

    Winning the week doesn't make you good at the game dude, hate to break it to ya. Or did you spend 18 hours a day all 7 days of the week coordinating with literally everyone else on your server to win? No, it didn't happen. Match-ups are decided before they begin. No amount of individual effort makes a difference. This isn't 2013 anymore. There are no tournaments. Off hours coverage and population determine the score. A tower sitting T3 overnight won it for you, not you playing. It's pure delusion to think otherwise, which feeds into a hefty sense of ego.

    The game isn't just about you. If you really can't understand the 6 words, you really need work on it.

    I understand that there are people who play this gamemode "as originally intended" and want to win at the end of the week and have server pride. All that. I have made that clear that that is something that I understand. There are people who agree with you. There are people who agree with me. No one's right. No one's wrong. We can establish at least that.

    What you need to ponder is why you still hold onto it. The game has grown and evolved since its inception. It's made for the players. And players are responsible for "emergent gameplay". Is this style, this method of playing the game any less valid than yours because it doesn't hold fast and true to what was "originally intended"? Is it something that should be shunned? Looked down upon? Each side is always going to do that to the other.

    So that brings us back to why. Why do you still do what you do? How has it not grown old to you, how have you not burnt out? The gameplay as it's originally intended cannot fix the fact that individual effort has negligible, if that, impact on the score at the end of the week. No matter what you do, you can't change that by continuing to play that way. This is why people gave up playing that way. This is why many continue to play the way I play. I implore you to think long and hard about why you play a style that so many have left behind and the driving motivations for people like me to play the way I play.

    inb4 you don't read anything that I wrote you just repeat what you've said the last two times

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2019

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Unfortunately, the game isn't just about you.

    The OP asked a subjective question. Why are you getting personal when someone gives their opinion? There isn't a right or wrong answer, just individuals typing out their own perspectives. Now you're just turning the thread into some sort of back-n-forth. Yikes. :scream:

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Unfortunately, the game isn't just about you.

    The OP asked a subjective question. Why are you getting personal when someone gives their opinion? There isn't a right or wrong answer, just individuals typing out their own perspectives. Now you're just turning the thread into some sort of back-n-forth. Yikes. :scream:

    He quoted me first? He want to be personal with me when I made a objective opinions that summarize to this game has many types of players? Maybe you should check the entire thread first?

    Founder & Retired Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi
    https://discord.gg/P5dj7fd

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2019

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Unfortunately, the game isn't just about you.

    The OP asked a subjective question. Why are you getting personal when someone gives their opinion? There isn't a right or wrong answer, just individuals typing out their own perspectives. Now you're just turning the thread into some sort of back-n-forth. Yikes. :scream:

    He quoted me first? He want to be personal with me when I made a objective opinions that summarize to this game has many types of players? Maybe you should check the entire thread first?

    I did check the entire thread, multiple times. He gave an opinion first about the subject, not about you.

  • Arzurag.7506Arzurag.7506 Member ✭✭✭

    There´s no objective incentive to actually win due there being no reward other than climbing the ladder.
    It´s like working and not getting payed whilst competing against your co-workers who are also not getting payed.
    Simple insanity.

    "I´m not big on sermons nor words, Broken bones teach better lessons and speak for themselves."

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2019

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Unfortunately, the game isn't just about you.

    The OP asked a subjective question. Why are you getting personal when someone gives their opinion? There isn't a right or wrong answer, just individuals typing out their own perspectives. Now you're just turning the thread into some sort of back-n-forth. Yikes. :scream:

    He quoted me first? He want to be personal with me when I made a objective opinions that summarize to this game has many types of players? Maybe you should check the entire thread first?

    I did check the entire thread, multiple times. He gave an opinion first about the subject, not about you.

    Which then I gave my opinion on his opinion of his subject of choice. I mean, if you quote someone, are you not directing that opinion to that someone and (maybe) hoping that someone to reply you? If not, why would you quote them?

    Founder & Retired Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi
    https://discord.gg/P5dj7fd

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2019

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Unfortunately, the game isn't just about you.

    The OP asked a subjective question. Why are you getting personal when someone gives their opinion? There isn't a right or wrong answer, just individuals typing out their own perspectives. Now you're just turning the thread into some sort of back-n-forth. Yikes. :scream:

    He quoted me first? He want to be personal with me when I made a objective opinions that summarize to this game has many types of players? Maybe you should check the entire thread first?

    I did check the entire thread, multiple times. He gave an opinion first about the subject, not about you.

    Which then I gave my opinion on his opinion of his subject of choice. I mean, if you quote someone, are you not directing that opinion to that someone and (maybe) hoping that someone to reply you? If not, why would you quote them?

    If you see the responses from other people, they also gave their opinion on the OP's subject from their personal perspectives, using words like "I" and "my", yet you are not attacking them. Why?

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2019

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Unfortunately, the game isn't just about you.

    The OP asked a subjective question. Why are you getting personal when someone gives their opinion? There isn't a right or wrong answer, just individuals typing out their own perspectives. Now you're just turning the thread into some sort of back-n-forth. Yikes. :scream:

    He quoted me first? He want to be personal with me when I made a objective opinions that summarize to this game has many types of players? Maybe you should check the entire thread first?

    I did check the entire thread, multiple times. He gave an opinion first about the subject, not about you.

    Which then I gave my opinion on his opinion of his subject of choice. I mean, if you quote someone, are you not directing that opinion to that someone and (maybe) hoping that someone to reply you? If not, why would you quote them?

    If you see the responses from other people, they also gave their opinion on the OP's subject from their personal perspectives, using words like "I" and "my", yet you are not attacking them. Why?

    Did you not read what I wrote?

    Here, I write again.
    If you quote someone, are you not directing that opinion to that someone and (maybe) hoping that someone to reply you? If not, why would you quote them?

    Who here in this thread, other him and later you quote me? It is very simple logic, I can't explain it any simpler.

    Founder & Retired Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi
    https://discord.gg/P5dj7fd

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Honest John.4673 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    When you play a shooter game, why do you want to beat your enemy team?
    When you play a fighting game, why would you want to win your opponent?
    When you play MOBA, why would you not want to beat your enemy?
    IS there any incentive to do so?

    When you ask such a question, you are already screaming to the world that you are a pve player.

    There are people who play not for guilds or for that group of people at that particular moment, there are people who play for the greater team aka server.

    Now I will ask a question. Why would people stack a server? If they want to fight, wouldn't it be ideal for them to go to the opposing server? It is about winning everything.

    I play this game to beat the enemy players in combat that I can control. So what if I stay up 18 hours every day and the most interesting thing I did was press F on siege just to win the match-up. Does that make me a good player? Is that fun, or engaging to anyone at all who isn't the commander who must necessarily have a huge ego? What am I responsible for? 2 hours for raid nights 3 times a week minus reset. That's all I can control. The match-ups were decided years ago by off hours coverage and population. What's me taking my 7,459th tower? It's useless. I can fight and be a part of a team/guild. The whole chess match is so 2012, only played by egotistical commanders who let the game mode pass them by.

    Unfortunately, the game isn't just about you.

    The OP asked a subjective question. Why are you getting personal when someone gives their opinion? There isn't a right or wrong answer, just individuals typing out their own perspectives. Now you're just turning the thread into some sort of back-n-forth. Yikes. :scream:

    He quoted me first? He want to be personal with me when I made a objective opinions that summarize to this game has many types of players? Maybe you should check the entire thread first?

    I did check the entire thread, multiple times. He gave an opinion first about the subject, not about you.

    Which then I gave my opinion on his opinion of his subject of choice. I mean, if you quote someone, are you not directing that opinion to that someone and (maybe) hoping that someone to reply you? If not, why would you quote them?

    If you see the responses from other people, they also gave their opinion on the OP's subject from their personal perspectives, using words like "I" and "my", yet you are not attacking them. Why?

    Did you not read what I wrote?

    Here, I write again.
    If you quote someone, are you not directing that opinion to that someone and (maybe) hoping that someone to reply you? If not, why would you quote them?

    Who here in this thread, other him and later you quote me? It is very simple logic, I can't explain it any simpler.

    I won't chase you down your rabbit hole. I said my piece from an outside third party perspective. What you do with that is up to you.

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