Merged: Holo is BROKEN. FIX it

[Moirg.7560]

This discussion has been merged.

[coro.3176]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"coro.3176" said:Nerfing Healing Turret is really really really not the way to go about fixing Holo.

If you do that, you only make people EVEN MORE reliant on Holo and Scrapper.

If the problem is the elite specs, nerf the elite specs! or fix them.

Holo is good because it gets great damage and gives up (essentially) nothing. Solutions? Make it give up more skills to get photon forge (all toolbelt skills?). Make heat an actually punishing mechanic rather than trivially easy to manage. Take some sustain out of Heat Therapy.

If you nerf engi's standard heal (the one you definitely want to pick if you're not playing elixirs or gadgets or a support build), you only hurt core engi even more.

A.E.D. is an excellent heal in the right hands. It's excellent enough to have actually seen some use on Holosmiths after Path of Fire. Not a lot, but some.

Elixir H is rock solid. It only looks embarrassing because it's competing with Healing Turret, which is almost objectively over powered.

Med Kit....

Okay you have a point there.

My personal prescription for med kid does involve heavily nerfing the initial healing (30-40% imo), but elongating the water field duration by the same percentage. This would put Healing Turret a bit more inline with other "highly situational" healing skills. If all you do is pop the healing skill button it's decidedly mediocre. But for skilled engineers who know how to use the field to combo they can achieve amazing results out of. That's what I would do if I was a balance developer personally.

AED only works if you are running holo and can guarantee a death trigger from overheating. Otherwise it puts control in your enemy's hands, and a good opponent will always capitalize on that.Elixir H only works if you're running Alchemy, as it is clearly balanced around HGH, so it demands an elixir build, limiting diversity.

This doesn't really address my main point. If you nerf core engi skills (yes, even the heals), you only increase dependence on the elite specs, especially Holo.

• Core engi trades off a lot of utility and traits in order to achieve good damage, so it NEEDS a good heal.
• Holo does not trade off much of anything to achieve good damage, so it runs defensive utilities and traits. It can play any heal and still function.

Nerfing healing turret hurts Holo a little, but not much.Nerfing healing turret guts Core Engi (and it is already barely playable). It forces core engi to a very narrow build style (elixirs).

I would much rather Holo be toned down in a way that doesn't gut the core class.