Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Is Anet treating Guild Wars 1 characters fairly?


The Night Fox.6018

Recommended Posts

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:I don't think that 11 out of 50 henchmen/heroes being still active in some spiritual, undead, or immortal form is that bad of a number.From a story writing side, 11 is a horribly bad number. Ghosts need to be treated properly in the story to prevent them from getting stale. Going into gw2 I would have liked hero wise a max of 4-5 cameos. Of course the 3 immortal ones, (M.O.X. ,Razah, Ogden) and maybe one or two others if the plot ever reached a point that they would be needed to tie up a loose end from gw1. But 11 is just too many. I'm all for putting in as many references as you can pack in, but make them realistic to the 250 year time skip. Constantly bringing back characters from gw1 reduces the novelty in it. When I met Ogden in the core story I was ecstatic to see him again. When I met Koss in the previous story chapter, I was "Oh they reanimated Koss, neat, I guess..".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

  • Aiden and Zho are dead, no ghosts met, but their descendant (Noran) is met in Lake Doric.Only Aiden seems to be Noran's ancestor. Reading his dialog, he only mentions Zho as a great ranger, not that she was an ancestor.
  • Herta (NF henchman) was turned into an Exalted and we now carry her head.Do we know for certain that she's the same Herta?
  • Norgu, Jurah, Jin, Sousuke, Zhed, Morgahn, and Razah's fates are still unstated, no ghosts/walking corpses met.I've thought that Acolyte Sousuke became the first weaver. Even though Folarin's dialog spells his name as "Sosuke", I'd like to believe that's just a typo and they were meant to be the same character. I realize it's debatable, though.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Rognik.2579 said:

  • Aiden and Zho are dead, no ghosts met, but their descendant (Noran) is met in Lake Doric.Only Aiden seems to be Noran's ancestor. Reading his dialog, he only mentions Zho as a great ranger, not that she was an ancestor.He brings up Zho while talking about his family, and note how in Eye of the North Zho and Aiden are always with each other. He even has a pet Black Moa, which was Zho's signature pet.

  • Herta (NF henchman) was turned into an Exalted and we now carry her head.Do we know for certain that she's the same Herta?We know it's a Herta from Elona, from the time period in which the Herta we knew was alive. It's never explicitly stated, but it's pretty heavily suggested.

  • Norgu, Jurah, Jin, Sousuke, Zhed, Morgahn, and Razah's fates are still unstated, no ghosts/walking corpses met.I've thought that Acolyte Sousuke became the first weaver. Even though Folarin's dialog spells his name as "Sosuke", I'd like to believe that's just a typo and they were meant to be the same character. I realize it's debatable, though.

Yes, he did, but that doesn't talk about his fate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 10 months later...

@Dante.1763 said:Koss, talkhora, Ogden, Livia, i feel all got at least decent treatment some more sad than others, but even the sad ones it felt nice to know they werent exactly forgotten. Ogden has had the best treatment i think, Livia and koss next inline with Talkhora i feel got treated horribly(in so far as what happened to her) but well by the game devs for the whole story behind it. Dunkoro was just..bleh to see, much like he was in GW1.

Almost forgot about Moxx, but having him brought back and basically given to the player was awesome!

Hopefully we get to see more of the heroes we knew from GW1, brought back into the game in some memorable way too.

Lazarus and joko..im unsure, Lazarus was a side quest and never a main villian so i think he was alright, same with Joko. Though i think Joko had the best and most hilarious death ive seen in this game so far. Lazaruses death was just..dull.

The hero of guild wars 1 who led them all has been forgotten however. Thanks to people, or accidents, or even natural disasters removing eve a trace of the first hero.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:I worked hard to fill my Hall of Monument the best I could to only find it in ruins. That is not a fair treatment of the hero character of GW1. That was the first indication to me that none of the GW1 hero characters would be treated fairly. I was right. All of the characters so far have had sad or tragic story. Meh.

The Hall of Monuments was in the far north, where Jormag rose and took over. The hero of Gw1 lived 250 years ago, what details exist are vague for a reason.

If they came out and said "Oh the Gw1 hero was a warrior from Ascalon." Anybody who started their main character in factions would be cheated. A necromancer nightfall main character would feel as if Anet was ignoring them or their stories.

Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kalavier.1097 said:

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:I worked hard to fill my Hall of Monument the best I could to only find it in ruins. That is not a fair treatment of the hero character of GW1. That was the first indication to me that none of the GW1 hero characters would be treated fairly. I was right. All of the characters so far have had sad or tragic story. Meh.

The Hall of Monuments was in the far north, where Jormag rose and took over. The hero of Gw1 lived 250 years ago, what details exist are vague for a reason.

That's a lame excuse. My GW2 account is linked to the GW1 account. They could have made the Hall an instanced where my GW1 achievements were preserved. Not only it would serve as a respect to your hard work in GW1, it would also incentivize new players to play GW1.

If they came out and said "Oh the Gw1 hero was a warrior from Ascalon." Anybody who started their main character in factions would be cheated. A necromancer nightfall main character would feel as if Anet was ignoring them or their stories.

Ever heard of instancing? Where they can tailor the narrative to match your character? What do you think happens in yous home instance where you join the Whispers instead of the Vigil?

Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

All sad and tragic story. Gwen's story is the saddest. Growing in captivity only to die while Ebonhawke is under siege.

"Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives" -- really? Name five!

For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

None of the GW1 heroes died in glory. They were not treated fairly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:I worked hard to fill my Hall of Monument the best I could to only find it in ruins. That is not a fair treatment of the hero character of GW1. That was the first indication to me that none of the GW1 hero characters would be treated fairly. I was right. All of the characters so far have had sad or tragic story. Meh.

The Hall of Monuments was in the far north, where Jormag rose and took over. The hero of Gw1 lived 250 years ago, what details exist are vague for a reason.

That's a lame excuse. My GW2 account is linked to the GW1 account. They could have made the Hall an instanced where my GW1 achievements were preserved. Not only it would serve as a respect to your hard work in GW1, it would also incentivize new players to play GW1.

Yes, an instance you can only use by playing GW1. (You can apparently get to it now without having played, which is new, but before you couldn't.) And making it tailor to every persons Gw1 account would be a massive amount of work.

If they came out and said "Oh the Gw1 hero was a warrior from Ascalon." Anybody who started their main character in factions would be cheated. A necromancer nightfall main character would feel as if Anet was ignoring them or their stories.

Ever heard of instancing? Where they can tailor the narrative to match your character? What do you think happens in yous home instance where you join the Whispers instead of the Vigil?

See above. Factor in now you can be male/female from any of three origin points, with 10 class options. It's the same reason why people get shot down when they want living story to factor in all the player choices. Five races, 9 classes, three orders. This is also assuming that a singular structure with nobody living in it would be the same after 250 years.

Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

All sad and tragic story. Gwen's story is the saddest. Growing in captivity only to die while Ebonhawke is under siege.

That doesn't explain anything.

"Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives" -- really? Name five!

Mhenlo, Cynn, Aiden, Zho, Sousuke, Melonni, Gwen, Keiran, MOX, Vekk, Stefan, Orion, Alesia, Reyna, Anton, Herta, Zinn, Oola, Livia, Salma, Yakkington, Nicholas the traveler, Kimmes, Devona, Frodak Steelstar.

For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

None of the GW1 heroes died in glory. They were not treated fairly.

Again.. how?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kalavier.1097 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:I worked hard to fill my Hall of Monument the best I could to only find it in ruins. That is not a fair treatment of the hero character of GW1. That was the first indication to me that none of the GW1 hero characters would be treated fairly. I was right. All of the characters so far have had sad or tragic story. Meh.

The Hall of Monuments was in the far north, where Jormag rose and took over. The hero of Gw1 lived 250 years ago, what details exist are vague for a reason.

That's a lame excuse. My GW2 account is linked to the GW1 account. They could have made the Hall an instanced where my GW1 achievements were preserved. Not only it would serve as a respect to your hard work in GW1, it would also incentivize new players to play GW1.

Yes, an instance you can only use by playing GW1. (You can apparently get to it now without having played, which is new, but before you couldn't.) And making it tailor to every persons Gw1 account would be a massive amount of work.

They've done that already with the home instance. It would not be any different.

If they came out and said "Oh the Gw1 hero was a warrior from Ascalon." Anybody who started their main character in factions would be cheated. A necromancer nightfall main character would feel as if Anet was ignoring them or their stories.

Ever heard of instancing? Where they can tailor the narrative to match your character? What do you think happens in yous home instance where you join the Whispers instead of the Vigil?

See above. Factor in now you can be male/female from any of three origin points, with 10 class options. It's the same reason why people get shot down when they want living story to factor in all the player choices. Five races, 9 classes, three orders. This is also assuming that a singular structure with nobody living in it would be the same after 250 years.

The "factors' means nothing since the technology is already in the game. It was a design decision and that decision was unfair. It's really that simple.

Even if nobody lives in the Hall, it should have been protected with some kind of magic. The Eye stood there way before the Vanguard made a base out of it and it should have stood even for another 1000 years or forever. The Scrying Pool is proof that there is magic there.

Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

All sad and tragic story. Gwen's story is the saddest. Growing in captivity only to die while Ebonhawke is under siege.

That doesn't explain anything.

You can disagree, it's totally fine.

If you don't get it, then never mind. Just don't try to argue against something you cannot prove wrong.

"Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives" -- really? Name five!

Mhenlo, Cynn, Aiden, Zho, Sousuke, Melonni, Gwen, Keiran, MOX, Vekk, Stefan, Orion, Alesia, Reyna, Anton, Herta, Zinn, Oola, Livia, Salma, Yakkington, Nicholas the traveler, Kimmes, Devona, Frodak Steelstar.

No proofs. That's just your speculation.

For instance, there are no records of Mhenlo, Cynn and Devona even though they can be considered main characters besides the GW1 player character. Sure we see Jora's statue in Hoelbrak, but that's an exemption, however where are Mhenlo's, Cynn's, and Devona's statues?

Even with Jora, no records can be found what happened after killing her brother. She was remembered for this act and that's it.

For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

None of the GW1 heroes died in glory. They were not treated fairly.

Again.. how?

lol, how? Just look at Kos and Tahlkora and the zero records about the all of the heroes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:I worked hard to fill my Hall of Monument the best I could to only find it in ruins. That is not a fair treatment of the hero character of GW1. That was the first indication to me that none of the GW1 hero characters would be treated fairly. I was right. All of the characters so far have had sad or tragic story. Meh.

The Hall of Monuments was in the far north, where Jormag rose and took over. The hero of Gw1 lived 250 years ago, what details exist are vague for a reason.

That's a lame excuse. My GW2 account is linked to the GW1 account. They could have made the Hall an instanced where my GW1 achievements were preserved. Not only it would serve as a respect to your hard work in GW1, it would also incentivize new players to play GW1.

Yes, an instance you can only use by playing GW1. (You can apparently get to it now without having played, which is new, but before you couldn't.) And making it tailor to every persons Gw1 account would be a massive amount of work.

They've done that already with the home instance. It would not be any different.

If they came out and said "Oh the Gw1 hero was a warrior from Ascalon." Anybody who started their main character in factions would be cheated. A necromancer nightfall main character would feel as if Anet was ignoring them or their stories.

Ever heard of instancing? Where they can tailor the narrative to match your character? What do you think happens in yous home instance where you join the Whispers instead of the Vigil?

If I did the math right, it'd be at the bottom level, at least 60 different variants for the player char alone, not counting "Did X content/title" stuff (purely gender, start point, and profession). Then you run into the problem of "What character" As the link is to your entire GW1 account, not a specific character. Do you select what character you want it to show each time you go in?

See above. Factor in now you can be male/female from any of three origin points, with 10 class options. It's the same reason why people get shot down when they want living story to factor in all the player choices. Five races, 9 classes, three orders. This is also assuming that a singular structure with nobody living in it would be the same after 250 years.

The "factors' means nothing since the technology is already in the game. It was a design decision and that decision was unfair. It's really that simple.

Even if nobody lives in the Hall, it should have been protected with some kind of magic. The Eye stood there way before the Vanguard made a base out of it and it should have stood even for another 1000 years or forever. The Scrying Pool is proof that there is magic there.

Techincally the Eye still stands. It's merely abandoned.

Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

All sad and tragic story. Gwen's story is the saddest. Growing in captivity only to die while Ebonhawke is under siege.

That says nothing. how is it tragic and sad? Gwen died in Ebonhawke, having founded and secured the city to last through 200+ years of siege. Her gravestone implies nothing tragic or sad about her death.

"Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives" -- really? Name five!

Mhenlo, Cynn, Aiden, Zho, Sousuke, Melonni, Gwen, Keiran, MOX, Vekk, Stefan, Orion, Alesia, Reyna, Anton, Herta, Zinn, Oola, Livia, Salma, Yakkington, Nicholas the traveler, Kimmes, Devona, Frodak Steelstar.

No proofs. That's just your speculation.

For instance, there are no records of Mhenlo, Cynn and Devona even though they can be considered main characters besides the GW1 player character. Sure we see Jora's statue in Hoelbrak, but that's an exemption, however where are Mhenlo's, Cynn's, and Devona's statues?

Even with Jora, no records can be found what happened after killing her brother. She was remembered for this act and that's it.

I said heroes/henchment/npcs were implied to live long lives/not tragic ones. You asked me to name five. I listed off well over five, of characters including ones we know have currently living descendants. Are you literally saying because there isn't giant statues and npcs/things gushing over them that the character lived a tragic and sad life?

There is an important aspect called "Relevance to plot." We learn more about Koss, Lonai, Tahlkora and their admittedly tragic ends and undeath because it is RELEVANT. Mhenlo's life and death is not that relevant to the plot of the story of GW2, and most gw1 npc's fall into this grouping. Livia's appearance and the hunting down of Lazarus was called GW1 fan service/purely for "GW1 nostalgia" by some because it came from the side (even though we knew Livia was still alive and around) was while I personally say it wasn't terrible, it did kinda stretch that "relevant to the story and thus important to dive into."

For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

None of the GW1 heroes died in glory. They were not treated fairly.

What does "Died in glory" even mean? Explain. Are you saying that because a character didn't die in a huge crowning moment of awesome they aren't being treated fairly or had a sad or tragic ending? The idea of Gwen dying among family of old age is bad?

Again.. how?

lol, how? Just look at Kos and Tahlkora and the zero records about the all of the heroes.

Relevance for one thing, and again, are you saying that "Because we aren't buried in records about these characters and actions." that they lived a sad and tragic life and had a sad and tragic end?

I'm seriously curious about what you consider "Sad and tragic"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kalavier.1097 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:I worked hard to fill my Hall of Monument the best I could to only find it in ruins. That is not a fair treatment of the hero character of GW1. That was the first indication to me that none of the GW1 hero characters would be treated fairly. I was right. All of the characters so far have had sad or tragic story. Meh.

The Hall of Monuments was in the far north, where Jormag rose and took over. The hero of Gw1 lived 250 years ago, what details exist are vague for a reason.

That's a lame excuse. My GW2 account is linked to the GW1 account. They could have made the Hall an instanced where my GW1 achievements were preserved. Not only it would serve as a respect to your hard work in GW1, it would also incentivize new players to play GW1.

Yes, an instance you can only use by playing GW1. (You can apparently get to it now without having played, which is new, but before you couldn't.) And making it tailor to every persons Gw1 account would be a massive amount of work.

They've done that already with the home instance. It would not be any different.

If they came out and said "Oh the Gw1 hero was a warrior from Ascalon." Anybody who started their main character in factions would be cheated. A necromancer nightfall main character would feel as if Anet was ignoring them or their stories.

Ever heard of instancing? Where they can tailor the narrative to match your character? What do you think happens in yous home instance where you join the Whispers instead of the Vigil?

If I did the math right, it'd be at the bottom level, at least 60 different variants for the player char alone, not counting "Did X content/title" stuff (purely gender, start point, and profession). Then you run into the problem of "What character" As the link is to your entire GW1 account, not a specific character. Do you select what character you want it to show each time you go in?

Sigh. They did all the Hall of Monument achievement so that every character you made will get the achievement reward. When you claim those rewards in game, it didn't really matter if your Charr character was claiming it. So you're just using your hypothetical variants just to make things look complicated than it actually is.

See above. Factor in now you can be male/female from any of three origin points, with 10 class options. It's the same reason why people get shot down when they want living story to factor in all the player choices. Five races, 9 classes, three orders. This is also assuming that a singular structure with nobody living in it would be the same after 250 years.

The "factors' means nothing since the technology is already in the game. It was a design decision and that decision was unfair. It's really that simple.

Even if nobody lives in the Hall, it should have been protected with some kind of magic. The Eye stood there way before the Vanguard made a base out of it and it should have stood even for another 1000 years or forever. The Scrying Pool is proof that there is magic there.

Techincally the Eye still stands. It's merely abandoned.

Technically, it's not.

Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

All sad and tragic story. Gwen's story is the saddest. Growing in captivity only to die while Ebonhawke is under siege.

That says nothing. how is it tragic and sad? Gwen died in Ebonhawke, having founded and secured the city to last through 200+ years of siege. Her gravestone implies nothing tragic or sad about her death.

If you played through her story in GW1, you'll know that she hated the Charrs. Dying while under siege by them is a sad story. She's always their prisoner.

"Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives" -- really? Name five!

Mhenlo, Cynn, Aiden, Zho, Sousuke, Melonni, Gwen, Keiran, MOX, Vekk, Stefan, Orion, Alesia, Reyna, Anton, Herta, Zinn, Oola, Livia, Salma, Yakkington, Nicholas the traveler, Kimmes, Devona, Frodak Steelstar.

No proofs. That's just your speculation.

For instance, there are no records of Mhenlo, Cynn and Devona even though they can be considered main characters besides the GW1 player character. Sure we see Jora's statue in Hoelbrak, but that's an exemption, however where are Mhenlo's, Cynn's, and Devona's statues?

Even with Jora, no records can be found what happened after killing her brother. She was remembered for this act and that's it.

I said heroes/henchment/npcs were implied to live long lives/not tragic ones. You asked me to name five. I listed off well over five, of characters including ones we know have currently living descendants. Are you literally saying because there isn't giant statues and npcs/things gushing over them that the character lived a tragic and sad life?

You listed name, but did not show proof where is was implied that they didn't lived a tragic life. On the contrary, there are plenty of evidence that shows that they did.

There is an important aspect called "Relevance to plot." We learn more about Koss, Lonai, Tahlkora and their admittedly tragic ends and undeath because it is RELEVANT. Mhenlo's life and death is not that relevant to the plot of the story of GW2, and most gw1 npc's fall into this grouping. Livia's appearance and the hunting down of Lazarus was called GW1 fan service/purely for "GW1 nostalgia" by some because it came from the side (even though we knew Livia was still alive and around) was while I personally say it wasn't terrible, it did kinda stretch that "relevant to the story and thus important to dive into."

How is Mhenlo not relevant? He could have explained why Monk is no longer a profession.

For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

None of the GW1 heroes died in glory. They were not treated fairly.

What does "Died in glory" even mean? Explain. Are you saying that because a character didn't die in a huge crowning moment of awesome they aren't being treated fairly or had a sad or tragic ending? The idea of Gwen dying among family of old age is bad?

Dying in glory means not dying to something stupid.

How did you even know that Gwen died among family of old age?

If you look at her ghost, she's at the same age as we left her in GW1...meaning she might have died soon after giving birth to her first child. Compare that to the age of Eir's ghost and Dunkoro's ghost. Gwen died young.

Again.. how?

lol, how? Just look at Kos and Tahlkora and the zero records about the all of the heroes.

Relevance for one thing, and again, are you saying that "Because we aren't buried in records about these characters and actions." that they lived a sad and tragic life and had a sad and tragic end?

All these are heroes. Their stories are told for generations. The fact that their stories are not being told shows that they were not treated fairly.

I'm seriously curious about what you consider "Sad and tragic"

Sad because nobody remembers them. Tragic because some of them literally died tragically.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:I worked hard to fill my Hall of Monument the best I could to only find it in ruins. That is not a fair treatment of the hero character of GW1. That was the first indication to me that none of the GW1 hero characters would be treated fairly. I was right. All of the characters so far have had sad or tragic story. Meh.

The Hall of Monuments was in the far north, where Jormag rose and took over. The hero of Gw1 lived 250 years ago, what details exist are vague for a reason.

That's a lame excuse. My GW2 account is linked to the GW1 account. They could have made the Hall an instanced where my GW1 achievements were preserved. Not only it would serve as a respect to your hard work in GW1, it would also incentivize new players to play GW1.

Yes, an instance you can only use by playing GW1. (You can apparently get to it now without having played, which is new, but before you couldn't.) And making it tailor to every persons Gw1 account would be a massive amount of work.

They've done that already with the home instance. It would not be any different.

If they came out and said "Oh the Gw1 hero was a warrior from Ascalon." Anybody who started their main character in factions would be cheated. A necromancer nightfall main character would feel as if Anet was ignoring them or their stories.

Ever heard of instancing? Where they can tailor the narrative to match your character? What do you think happens in yous home instance where you join the Whispers instead of the Vigil?

If I did the math right, it'd be at the bottom level, at least 60 different variants for the player char alone, not counting "Did X content/title" stuff (purely gender, start point, and profession). Then you run into the problem of "What character" As the link is to your entire GW1 account, not a specific character. Do you select what character you want it to show each time you go in?

Sigh. They did all the Hall of Monument achievement so that every character you made will get the achievement reward. When you claim those rewards in game, it didn't really matter if your Charr character was claiming it. So you're just using your hypothetical variants just to make things look complicated than it actually is.

See above. Factor in now you can be male/female from any of three origin points, with 10 class options. It's the same reason why people get shot down when they want living story to factor in all the player choices. Five races, 9 classes, three orders. This is also assuming that a singular structure with nobody living in it would be the same after 250 years.

The "factors' means nothing since the technology is already in the game. It was a design decision and that decision was unfair. It's really that simple.

Even if nobody lives in the Hall, it should have been protected with some kind of magic. The Eye stood there way before the Vanguard made a base out of it and it should have stood even for another 1000 years or forever. The Scrying Pool is proof that there is magic there.

Techincally the Eye still stands. It's merely abandoned.

Technically, it's not.

Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

All sad and tragic story. Gwen's story is the saddest. Growing in captivity only to die while Ebonhawke is under siege.

That says nothing. how is it tragic and sad? Gwen died in Ebonhawke, having founded and secured the city to last through 200+ years of siege. Her gravestone implies nothing tragic or sad about her death.

If you played through her story in GW1, you'll know that she hated the Charrs. Dying while under siege by them is a sad story. She's always their prisoner.

"Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives" -- really? Name five!

Mhenlo, Cynn, Aiden, Zho, Sousuke, Melonni, Gwen, Keiran, MOX, Vekk, Stefan, Orion, Alesia, Reyna, Anton, Herta, Zinn, Oola, Livia, Salma, Yakkington, Nicholas the traveler, Kimmes, Devona, Frodak Steelstar.

No proofs. That's just your speculation.

For instance, there are no records of Mhenlo, Cynn and Devona even though they can be considered main characters besides the GW1 player character. Sure we see Jora's statue in Hoelbrak, but that's an exemption, however where are Mhenlo's, Cynn's, and Devona's statues?

Even with Jora, no records can be found what happened after killing her brother. She was remembered for this act and that's it.

I said heroes/henchment/npcs were implied to live long lives/not tragic ones. You asked me to name five. I listed off well over five, of characters including ones we know have currently living descendants. Are you literally saying because there isn't giant statues and npcs/things gushing over them that the character lived a tragic and sad life?

You listed name, but did not show proof where is was implied that they didn't lived a tragic life. On the contrary, there are plenty of evidence that shows that they did.

There is an important aspect called "Relevance to plot." We learn more about Koss, Lonai, Tahlkora and their admittedly tragic ends and undeath because it is RELEVANT. Mhenlo's life and death is not that relevant to the plot of the story of GW2, and most gw1 npc's fall into this grouping. Livia's appearance and the hunting down of Lazarus was called GW1 fan service/purely for "GW1 nostalgia" by some because it came from the side (even though we knew Livia was still alive and around) was while I personally say it wasn't terrible, it did kinda stretch that "relevant to the story and thus important to dive into."

How is Mhenlo not relevant? He could have explained why Monk is no longer a profession.

For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

None of the GW1 heroes died in glory. They were not treated fairly.

What does "Died in glory" even mean? Explain. Are you saying that because a character didn't die in a huge crowning moment of awesome they aren't being treated fairly or had a sad or tragic ending? The idea of Gwen dying among family of old age is bad?

Dying in glory means not dying to something stupid.

How did you even know that Gwen died among family of old age?

If you look at her ghost, she's at the same age as we left her in GW1...meaning she might have died soon after giving birth to her first child. Compare that to the age of Eir's ghost and Dunkoro's ghost. Gwen died young.

Again.. how?

lol, how? Just look at Kos and Tahlkora and the zero records about the all of the heroes.

Relevance for one thing, and again, are you saying that "Because we aren't buried in records about these characters and actions." that they lived a sad and tragic life and had a sad and tragic end?

All these are heroes. Their stories are told for generations. The fact that their stories are not being told shows that they were not treated fairly.

I'm seriously curious about what you consider "Sad and tragic"

Sad because nobody remembers them. Tragic because some of them literally died tragically.

And no one remebers the main hero characters of guild wars 1 in my story bad people among all races purposly erased any evidence a human saved the world the charr for example had the foolsih among them do that cause they do not want any future charr to know my character Tarwin's grandfather Matthew steel the hero of ascalon in guild wars 1 saved the charr race from both the shamans and the destroyers and gave the charr a real reason to want to fight for their freedoms which is why the female charr under Kalla end up fighting to gain the right to for their freedoms but to many male charr influenced by the flame legion erased any evidence of this just to make it look like the charr freed themselves without help so the charr do not trust any non charr aid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:Sigh. They did all the Hall of Monument achievement so that every character you made will get the achievement reward. When you claim those rewards in game, it didn't really matter if your Charr character was claiming it. So you're just using your hypothetical variants just to make things look complicated than it actually is.

Stepping aside from this, I'll just say my final point is if you want the hall of monuments to actually be a thing in GW2 that showcases the GW1 hero, then it must showcase the hero. It doesn't matter who the GW2 character is.

Even if nobody lives in the Hall, it should have been protected with some kind of magic. The Eye stood there way before the Vanguard made a base out of it and it should have stood even for another 1000 years or forever. The Scrying Pool is proof that there is magic there.

Techincally the Eye still stands. It's merely abandoned.

Technically, it's not.

The Eye of the north is still standing, it's got a hole in the wall here or there and a partially collapsed floor but by all we can see, it's still overall intact.

Honestly, what do you mean "All the characters have had a sad or tragic story."? Gwen founded Ebonhawke and from memory, died of old age. Several heroes are implied to have lived long lives and did good things. The only ones I can think of that ended up being "sad and tragic" would be the Ascalon trainer npcs who became ghosts with Adelbern, and some of the sunspear characters who died fighting Joko and were awakened.

All sad and tragic story. Gwen's story is the saddest. Growing in captivity only to die while Ebonhawke is under siege.

That says nothing. how is it tragic and sad? Gwen died in Ebonhawke, having founded and secured the city to last through 200+ years of siege. Her gravestone implies nothing tragic or sad about her death.

If you played through her story in GW1, you'll know that she hated the Charrs. Dying while under siege by them is a sad story. She's always their prisoner.

There is a huge difference between being in a cage, and standing within a fortress. A fortress that held for 200+ years with it only ever being breached by the branded.

You listed name, but did not show proof where is was implied that they didn't lived a tragic life. On the contrary, there are plenty of evidence that shows that they did.

The names I listed almost entirely link to characters we know explicitly had children and have living descendants in GW2. So now I'd ask you to provide the proof that those people lived tragic lives, or sad lives.

There is an important aspect called "Relevance to plot." We learn more about Koss, Lonai, Tahlkora and their admittedly tragic ends and undeath because it is RELEVANT. Mhenlo's life and death is not that relevant to the plot of the story of GW2, and most gw1 npc's fall into this grouping. Livia's appearance and the hunting down of Lazarus was called GW1 fan service/purely for "GW1 nostalgia" by some because it came from the side (even though we knew Livia was still alive and around) was while I personally say it wasn't terrible, it did kinda stretch that "relevant to the story and thus important to dive into."

How is Mhenlo not relevant? He could have explained why Monk is no longer a profession.

Because the disappearance of monks as a combat profession doesn't actually mean anything to the plot of Gw2. It's an interesting question as to "why", but it means nothing story-wise. Mhenlo would also be long dead, and why would he personally be a factor in knowing why it's no longer as wide-spread among humanity?

For the poll, I say yes. Overall Gw1 character references have been fitting to the old characters, and if they appeared, it was reasonable for them to do so, like the sunspear characters.

None of the GW1 heroes died in glory. They were not treated fairly.

What does "Died in glory" even mean? Explain. Are you saying that because a character didn't die in a huge crowning moment of awesome they aren't being treated fairly or had a sad or tragic ending? The idea of Gwen dying among family of old age is bad?

Dying in glory means not dying to something stupid.

Is old age stupid? You don't even know how most of the GW1 characters die so you cannot factually say they "died stupid deaths" or "They died sad/tragic deaths"

How did you even know that Gwen died among family of old age?

If you look at her ghost, she's at the same age as we left her in GW1...meaning she might have died soon after giving birth to her first child. Compare that to the age of Eir's ghost and Dunkoro's ghost. Gwen died young.

We don't know that. She founded Ebonhawke ten years after the searing, and the foefire happened ten years after that. She was 30 when Abelbern and Ascalon City fell, and had children. We know she had one child at 1091, so she had at least one child at the age of 31, and we know she had another son. The son we know the name of lived from 1091 to 1106. His gravestone reads "I'll make you proud brother.", and he died at 15 years old. Sad yes, but hardly an overall picture of Gwen's life. Her other son lived to bear children of his own, leading to Logan Thackery of Gw2 day. We also know for a fact she did not have children before founding Ebonhawke. Therefore we can assume that she had her other son anytime between 1081 to after 1091. We also know that she earned the title "Goremonger" defending Ebonhawke from the Charr.

I'd hardly call the leader who founded and helped build the last standing Ascalonion city a "tragic death" or a "sad life." considering the city she founded lasted under 200 years of constant assault and never fell. And the fact she literally became a horror story to the Charr, being well-known as "The Goremonger" among them even to the present day. And note, a mesmer is being called "Goremonger". She dealt out such gore to the charr that she became part of the Charr's culture, their enemy of the night to keep children behaved.

Gwen did not die "prisoner" of the charr, she was never a prisoner of the Charr after she escaped them and joined the Ebon Vanguard. To think such of her is ignoring her life and legacy. Since she escaped the Charr, she fought them with her entire mind and body. She never gave up, never backed off. She created the literal last bastion of Ascalon, and ensured that Ascalon's legacy and blood would continue on for over 200 years. She struck horror and fear into the minds of the charr to the point that long after she died, they still fear her. Rytlock literally takes a single look at Gwen and immediately offers to go back to the base camp when Logan starts introducing the two.

All these are heroes. Their stories are told for generations. The fact that their stories are not being told shows that they were not treated fairly.

I'd like to point out that in real life, how often do you know the stories of the heroic soldiers in battles, in civilian life? "Fairly" or not, it's been 250 years since these individuals spotlight time. Times change, information gets lost and learned. You can find a scholar in DR who comments about the GW1 PC's life, having recently found some scrolls.

I'm seriously curious about what you consider "Sad and tragic"

Sad because nobody remembers them. Tragic because some of them literally died tragically.

Some, yes. I can think of... three? Koss, Lonai, and Talhkora. Others? We don't know how they died and thus it's not wise to assume they died tragically.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We know a few where they died, grave stones for a few henchmen are in granite citadel (Alesia, Little Thom, Reyna). Anton died near the edge of the shiverpeaks and Kyrta Border (Snowblind Peaks).Devona ended up as Herald of Balthazar unwilling https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Herald_of_Balthazar,Stefan Became a ghost https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stefan_Baruch and Herta ended up as a talking head. I think i am missing a few more but i don't remember any more locations and/or fates of the others at the moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Recently I started to feel like GW2 used GW1 story just to keep IT all together.

The characters who seemed very random in GW1 are now suddenly Super Saiyans for some unknown reason.

As for Balthazar. I like how he acts in GW2. But I don't see a Balthazar. Devs made a huge mistake in order to achieve the "wow effect". They continue to build the story on that mistake. I don't want to rewarch Star Wars TLJ for the rest of GW2's existance. Balthazar had the possivility to be one of the greatest enemies we faced. That is because of personality. Elder Dragons have very limited personality traits. Balthazar, even though he was meant to be (spoiler) killed, could actually be a lot more memorable.Do you remember our last dialogue with Kralkatorrik? This is how Balthazar's persona could've gone. Nevermind. I just don't like how flat GW2 characters' personalities are due to the fact that Devs want to show so much stuff per episode so badly. It's like they can't wait for the story to tell itself but have to outright tell everything with a blast.GW1 characters suffer from it.

The Hall of Monuments... I wish it was as full of life as we left it on GW1. Just a little.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...