Even without bots/manipulators, ranked PVP is fundamentally broken

Firebeard.1746 · June 12, 2019

I have zero reason to perform well on my placement matches. My placement rank when higher, just means a higher loss rate at the end, and I should be optimizing win rate if I want the season chests (because the biggest pip rewards are for wins). Basically you're punished for trying. The harder you try, the worse your win rate because then you'll be matched against people that are better. Also, rank decay isn't that terribad from losses, so it takes forever to lose rank if you're overplaced (as I was last season). A smart person would rather have a higher win rate off the bat (by placing lower on purpose) and then eventually settle on a 50% win rate as opposed to trying harder, losing more than 50% of the time and then finally tanking to a 50% win rate, because getting your rewards is fewer matches played total.

The fix for this is easy. Give a base number of pips per match (like 5) + pips for your rank (1 pip per sub tier after the lowest bronze, so bronze players would get 7 pips per match if they're just shy of silver, the lowest tier doesn't reward any additional pips). The only additional pip that is worth keeping outside of match rewards is the reward for a close match (and it should be upped so people have an incentive to play a long game, 1 pip doesn't feel worth it when you could theoretically wipe and have a chance at another full 10 right now on the next match when you think you're going to lose or in my proposed system a full pip amount). That way you're not being punished for playing your best and rank ACTUALLY MEANS something. Because right now, unless you want to stroke your epeen with your leaderboard rank, your rank is more of a liability than it is an asset

SPESHAL.9106 · June 13, 2019

It's broke because they allow premade duo to play against solo que'rs. There is no way for an algorithm to address premades that may or may not have real time communication/synergistic builds/experience playing together/etc. As a result, you see lopsided wins/losses at the top instead of more fair and balanced records like we did when they banned premades at top ratings.

When you combine the above with win trading, then you get a totally corrupted leaderboard and little incentive for people to take the PvP side of the game seriously.

Vieux P.1238 · June 13, 2019

@SPESHAL.9106 said:It's broke because they allow premade duo to play against solo que'rs. There is no way for an algorithm to address premades that may or may not have real time communication/synergistic builds/experience playing together/etc. As a result, you see lopsided wins/losses at the top instead of more fair and balanced records like we did when they banned premades at top ratings.
When you combine the above with win trading, then you get a totally corrupted leaderboard and little incentive for people to take the PvP side of the game seriously.

But there was so many multiples poll's posted this year only on how good 5 man team Q would fix Rank . So i don't see how it's possible duo Q's would break it. You must be wrong & everybody else who voted for 5 men Q's right.

Stand The Wall.6987 · June 13, 2019

ofc ppl voted for duo's... so they can game the system. not all of them, sure.

the vote is flawed from the get go, if the voters are dumb.

JTGuevara.9018 · June 13, 2019

People want a fix for ranked? Here it is! Allow TEAMS. Also have a separate ranked queue for solo. I know it's not the solution people want to hear, but I don't care. The powercreep alone from one-shot elite specs is terrible enough, but putting teams back to ranked is easily doable. lmao! I mean it's plainly ridiculous at this point to not have it. This solo/duo nonsense needs to end. You CANNOT have duos/trios or any other nonsense, it messes up the matches.I have said this for years, even back during the first and beginning seasons. Merged queues of any kind with solo/5-man or solo/duo messes up matches. This happens time and time again. Why don't people learn?

Lord of the Fire.6870 · June 13, 2019

@Firebeard.1746 said:I have zero reason to perform well on my placement matches. My placement rank when higher, just means a higher loss rate at the end, and I should be optimizing win rate if I want the season chests (because the biggest pip rewards are for wins). Basically you're punished for trying. The harder you try, the worse your win rate because then you'll be matched against people that are better. Also, rank decay isn't that terribad from losses, so it takes forever to lose rank if you're overplaced (as I was last season). A smart person would rather have a higher win rate off the bat (by placing lower on purpose) and then eventually settle on a 50% win rate as opposed to trying harder, losing more than 50% of the time and then finally tanking to a 50% win rate, because getting your rewards is fewer matches played total.
The fix for this is easy. Give a base number of pips per match (like 5) + pips for your rank (1 pip per sub tier after the lowest bronze, so bronze players would get 7 pips per match if they're just shy of silver, the lowest tier doesn't reward any additional pips). The only additional pip that is worth keeping outside of match rewards is the reward for a close match (and it should be upped so people have an incentive to play a long game, 1 pip doesn't feel worth it when you could theoretically wipe and have a chance at another full 10 right now on the next match when you think you're going to lose or in my proposed system a full pip amount). That way you're not being punished for playing your best and rank ACTUALLY MEANS something. Because right now, unless you want to stroke your kitten with your leaderboard rank, your rank is more of a liability than it is an asset

Having high lose rate from a high placement isn't broken it is in the intend of the system but there are different things which are brokenThe reason is all pvp ranking systems I know push you in the direction of 50:50 lose-win because the system will always push you to your personal limit. Having high pvp rank is more a thing of honour and showing how good you are as a player and a personal achievement.

One thing which is on my opinion is broken is pvp at the weekend/holiday because a lot of people who only play once a week suddenly start to play pvp which means no ranking and the systems drops them somewhere even in gold rang and above and even if they have a ranking they are often so rusty then their ranks makes no sense.

One the other hand we have players which are the absolute opposite of 'I just want to play' they play until they have the rank they desire and then stop playing completely for the rest of the season .

Losing rank points when not playing would be an idea to fix this something like 100 points per day without ranked match. I don't know exactly how the placements matches works but my impression is the system pitch you with each game against higher enemies until you lose and then try a tier lower again. In theory it could also be made so that you lose some placements progress in terms of tier/rang when you don't play a ranked pvp game on a daily base.

This also could be tested as event with 100%-150% more pvp reward track progress.

lare.5129 · June 13, 2019

@JTGuevara.9018 said:People want a fix for ranked? Here it is! Allow TEAMS.the team a ALLOWED. Welcome to gw2 world and tournaments.

Crab Fear.1624 · June 13, 2019

@Vieux P.1238 said:
@SPESHAL.9106 said:It's broke because they allow premade duo to play against solo que'rs. There is no way for an algorithm to address premades that may or may not have real time communication/synergistic builds/experience playing together/etc. As a result, you see lopsided wins/losses at the top instead of more fair and balanced records like we did when they banned premades at top ratings.
When you combine the above with win trading, then you get a totally corrupted leaderboard and little incentive for people to take the PvP side of the game seriously.

But there was so many multiples poll's posted this year only on how good 5 man team Q would fix Rank . So i don't see how it's possible duo Q's would break it. You must be wrong & everybody else who voted for 5 men Q's right.

We want a seperate q. Team q wants to play against teams only. Not against pugs.

Ziggityzog.7389 · June 13, 2019

@bluri.2653 said:
@Ziggityzog.7389 said:
@bluri.2653 said:
@"JTGuevara.9018" said:People want a fix for ranked? Here it is! Allow TEAMS. Also have a separate ranked queue for solo. I know it's not the solution people want to hear, but I don't care. The powercreep alone from one-shot elite specs is terrible enough, but putting teams back to ranked is easily doable. lmao! I mean it's plainly ridiculous at this point to not have it. This solo/duo nonsense needs to end. You CANNOT have duos/trios or any other nonsense, it messes up the matches.I have said this for years, even back during the first and beginning seasons. Merged queues of any kind with solo/5-man or solo/duo messes up matches. This happens
time
and
time
again. Why don't people learn?

Yes that sounds AMAZING to split the queue into THREE different queues! Ranked, Unranked and TEAM Q! Should we also apply matchmaking into it? Then 5v5 teams will wait months before q pop :) Sounds like an amazing plan.

L O L

Hahaha ahh the good old wintraders love them some duo que. Gotta go back to a team que or split solo que and team que with separate leaderboard. Otherwise we dont have actual top players just trolls.

We had teamq back when pips existed with old system, it made us 100% winratio. Or going further back in vanilla gw2 when TCG pretty much won or sat in queue forever to either play the same team over and over, sounds like a terrific system.

News flash, it wouldn't be any different. We would end up playing the same team over and over if they ever decided to queue up as 5 man. Look at how AT's are or Monthlies, we get 1 decent game per month imagine that in teamq it would end up 500-0 every single game lmao

Not that i expect you to understand since you are gold at best so you'd probably end up having decent games - but the top end would play either the same team or none at all.

Personally i dont care if its duo/soloq, but making soloq/duoq into teamq would kill the scene 100% we barely get 20 teams in monthlies with massive rewards, let alone normal at's where you get 15 teams at best you think that's enough to fuel ranked? absolutely no way.

Besides anet isn't gonna cater to any of you two since we have AT's and soon at's on demand (which basically will be "teamq") which means if you signup as 5 and theres enough teams it creates a tournament.

TLDR: Focus on Automated tournaments, make it more frequently than it is today and add up "on demand" tournaments (signup as 5 people into a tournament Q and if enough teams it creates a tournament) thats what we need, then keep ranked queue SOLO only, add some 2v2 Automated tournaments on a schedule as well to lure more people into sPvP and have it TDM as the 2v2 Special tournament was. That's what I would suggest for anet to do

News flash it was great back with team que. Even tho I soloed most of seasons 1-4 it wasn't the crudfest it is now. The games were so much better when every game didnt have a "afk" or game tosser. If you had a 5 man then there was no way you could get cheated out like how you can currently.

I dont expect someone who uses the fastest toon and gets carried by one skill with a bow to understand. I mean you would be bronze if it weren't for buddies or wintrading. Just saying.

Yes because pvp should be about rewards.. maybe you weren't here in the days of glory vendors.

I wish we could go back to the glory vendors so we can get rid of all the pve player trash playing pvp for rewards. That would fix alot of issues first off.

The "leaderboard" should represent the game and top players but since season 6/7 it just represents those who have a alt account and are willing to toss games just for a good w/l ratio. If the leaderboard is a joke then it defeats the purpose of having one.

Meteor.3720 · June 13, 2019

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:
@bluri.2653 said:
@Ziggityzog.7389 said:
@bluri.2653 said:
@"JTGuevara.9018" said:People want a fix for ranked? Here it is! Allow TEAMS. Also have a separate ranked queue for solo. I know it's not the solution people want to hear, but I don't care. The powercreep alone from one-shot elite specs is terrible enough, but putting teams back to ranked is easily doable. lmao! I mean it's plainly ridiculous at this point to not have it. This solo/duo nonsense needs to end. You CANNOT have duos/trios or any other nonsense, it messes up the matches.I have said this for years, even back during the first and beginning seasons. Merged queues of any kind with solo/5-man or solo/duo messes up matches. This happens
time
and
time
again. Why don't people learn?