Adrenaline depletion is not balanced for PvP and WvW. Math proof...

[zionophir.6845]

the optimized version of this is to change the skills that you use and dive into large masses of enemies and swing your gs. you don't even need the adrenaline++ trait coz it will just be redundant.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Hitman.5829 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@kasoki.5180 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Hitman.5829

And what each of us is telling you is that all you are doing is spitting into the wind as far as Anet is concerned because they have offered numerous tools to increase adrenaline gain. If you are trying to make an argument that passive gain should be increased, then you need to take these numerous tools into account because if you come up with numbers that indicate that warriors have no problem maintaining adrenaline then I can tell you Anet already beat you there and concluded that all the ways that warrior can gain adrenaline justify the base regen/decay rates.

And how many of those tools are actually used in actual builds? Not trolling, genuine question. Because to me it seems that not to many do

Berserker in raids and WvW at least use Blood Reckoning, Headbutt, and/or "To The Limit!" to fuel their bursts. Some others use Berserker's Stance or Signet of Fury. There was one guy, I forget who, that was raving about Opportunist from Arms (I prefer to take Signet Mastery myself). Disc gives you +5 adrenaline on weapon swap by default. Burst Mastery gives you a refund, and non axe users who use Disc take that usually. Axe Mastery itself gives +2 adrenaline on a crit with Axe, and if you run axes you run Axe Mastery. Cleansing Ire builds adrenaline upon getting hit in addition to the condi cleanse when hitting with a burst and people take that often. A fair number of the 'tools' are tied into other functions, so many of them get taken along for the ride.

It's actually hard to

not

have good adrenaline upkeep if you run Discipline, and most warriors run Discipline because it is 2019 and Fast Hands is not baseline yet. And none of this brings in cleaving and hitting multiple enemies at once, or multi hit/fast attacks.

This post is about adrenaline depletion for WvW and PvP do you even read the title?For PvE content adrenaline is not the issue, but for competitive game modes it is, because adrenaline is tightly linked to how many hits we connect. We need 30 hits to fill 1 full adrenaline bar. In large scale fights where blobs constantly disengage because of pirate ship BS, the warrior is constantly losing adrenaline and we never use burst upon engaging. The burst are used about 3 - 5 sec after engaging in combat (in large scale fights) and you need to trait for that.

No, I read it and understand it, you however are still ignoring the fact that you are looking at the depletion rate in a vacuum without taking the full measure of the multitude of ways that a warrior gains adrenaline. If you detest pirate ship meta find a zerg willing to portal bomb. If you can't, then run Core LB and contribute to the pirate ship meta. Run Arms for Opportunist and Furious, Tactics for Burning Arrows and Vigorous Shouts, and your choice of Defense or Discipline. Oh look no problems with adrenaline.

There is also nothing stopping you from using signet of fury or "To the Limit!" to refill your bar. Or Berserker's Stance, or shouts with Vigorous Shouts, or pulsing Combustion Shot, or critting with Dual Shot+ Furious, etc.

OR you could play a spec that combines with the pirate ship meta and save your warrior for roaming since you are unable to contribute to the zerg with it.

[kasoki.5180]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@kasoki.5180 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@"Hitman.5829"

And what each of us is telling you is that all you are doing is spitting into the wind as far as Anet is concerned because they have offered numerous tools to increase adrenaline gain. If you are trying to make an argument that passive gain should be increased, then you need to take these numerous tools into account because if you come up with numbers that indicate that warriors have no problem maintaining adrenaline then I can tell you Anet already beat you there and concluded that all the ways that warrior can gain adrenaline justify the base regen/decay rates.

And how many of those tools are actually used in actual builds? Not trolling, genuine question. Because to me it seems that not to many do

Berserker in raids and WvW at least use Blood Reckoning, Headbutt, and/or "To The Limit!" to fuel their bursts. Some others use Berserker's Stance or Signet of Fury. There was one guy, I forget who, that was raving about Opportunist from Arms (I prefer to take Signet Mastery myself). Disc gives you +5 adrenaline on weapon swap by default. Burst Mastery gives you a refund, and non axe users who use Disc take that usually. Axe Mastery itself gives +2 adrenaline on a crit with Axe, and if you run axes you run Axe Mastery. Cleansing Ire builds adrenaline upon getting hit in addition to the condi cleanse when hitting with a burst and people take that often. A fair number of the 'tools' are tied into other functions, so many of them get taken along for the ride.

It's actually hard to

not

have good adrenaline upkeep if you run Discipline, and most warriors run Discipline because it is 2019 and Fast Hands is not baseline yet. And none of this brings in cleaving and hitting multiple enemies at once, or multi hit/fast attacks.

Things that you have mentioned are not really used in PvP. Sure, you CAN use some of them, but then again you CAN use pretty much anything. It doesnt mean that it produces a valid or legit build that people will actually play.

The only semi-legit skill is Berserker's stance and its not really all that goodArms is seldom run since GS is still the meta weapons with Strength traitline. Opportunist and Furious are not that good because of internal CD on opportunist and bonus value on furious isn't really that valuable in PvPBurst mastery requires you to actually use the burst skill first, so its a "catch 22". Not really a source of adrenaline

So that means you basically have +5 on weapon swap.

[Obtena.7952]

I won't comment on specifics of one game mode over another but it's generally my experience playing Berserker since the patch that I'm more often waiting for adrenaline than I am a CD for F1 skills ... and I'm exclusively running Signet Elite.

Now, I'm not saying we don't get enough adrenaline but this situation is another bad-feeling double dipped resource. I'm waiting for a CD AND a full adrenaline bar to access a mode ... one of the complains I made regarding the unbalanced situation between Berserker and it's counterparts on the 'value' you get for adrenaline in each spec.

[Sobx.1758]

@kasoki.5180 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@kasoki.5180 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@"Hitman.5829"

And what each of us is telling you is that all you are doing is spitting into the wind as far as Anet is concerned because they have offered numerous tools to increase adrenaline gain. If you are trying to make an argument that passive gain should be increased, then you need to take these numerous tools into account because if you come up with numbers that indicate that warriors have no problem maintaining adrenaline then I can tell you Anet already beat you there and concluded that all the ways that warrior can gain adrenaline justify the base regen/decay rates.

And how many of those tools are actually used in actual builds? Not trolling, genuine question. Because to me it seems that not to many do

Berserker in raids and WvW at least use Blood Reckoning, Headbutt, and/or "To The Limit!" to fuel their bursts. Some others use Berserker's Stance or Signet of Fury. There was one guy, I forget who, that was raving about Opportunist from Arms (I prefer to take Signet Mastery myself). Disc gives you +5 adrenaline on weapon swap by default. Burst Mastery gives you a refund, and non axe users who use Disc take that usually. Axe Mastery itself gives +2 adrenaline on a crit with Axe, and if you run axes you run Axe Mastery. Cleansing Ire builds adrenaline upon getting hit in addition to the condi cleanse when hitting with a burst and people take that often. A fair number of the 'tools' are tied into other functions, so many of them get taken along for the ride.

It's actually hard to

not

have good adrenaline upkeep if you run Discipline, and most warriors run Discipline because it is 2019 and Fast Hands is not baseline yet. And none of this brings in cleaving and hitting multiple enemies at once, or multi hit/fast attacks.

Things that you have mentioned are not really used in PvP. Sure, you CAN use some of them, but then again you CAN use pretty much anything. It doesnt mean that it produces a valid or legit build that people will actually play.

The only semi-legit skill is Berserker's stance and its not really all that goodArms is seldom run since GS is still the meta weapons with Strength traitline. Opportunist and Furious are not that good because of internal CD on opportunist and bonus value on furious isn't really that valuable in PvPBurst mastery requires you to actually use the burst skill first, so its a "catch 22". Not really a source of adrenaline

So that means you basically have +5 on weapon swap.

You pick one build over the other -probably- because it's stronger and then you complain you can't pick everything at the same time. Oof. You put a value on each stat, trait and skill, then make your choice and pick what you want. There's always something you will lose when you pick "one thing and not the other", it's hardly an argument here.On the other hand, nobody still told me who said adrenaline gain has to be strictly bound to the adrenaline depletion rate out of combat. These are really 2 different things that somehow OP decided to make a basis for his "math proof" because it's convenient for him this way.

---

@"Obtena.7952" said:I won't comment on specifics of one game mode over another but it's generally my experience playing Berserker since the patch that I'm more often waiting for adrenaline than I am a CD for F1 skills ... and I'm exclusively running Signet Elite.

Now, I'm not saying we don't get enough adrenaline but this situation is another bad-feeling double dipped resource. I'm waiting for a CD AND a full adrenaline bar to access a mode ... one of the complains I made regarding the unbalanced situation between Berserker and it's counterparts on the 'value' you get for adrenaline in each spec.

When I'm spamming skills on thief, I have to wait for initiative too. By that logic, I don't have enough initiative in my pool and the ini regen is too low, because I can't spam whatever I want whenever I want. It also feels bad, because I'd feel much better to not be limited by any type of recource and instead I'd rather spam my shit 24/7. It's slightly over the top (but really just slightly), but you probably get the idea. Just because you're limited by a resource (that's there for a reason) and can't spam something "off cooldown" isn't really a valid argument in my eyes. And from what I've seen in your past posts neither it should be in yours. "feels bad because I can't spam it" is just... yh...

[Sobx.1758]

double post

[Obtena.7952]

@"Sobx.1758" said:When I'm spamming skills on thief, I have to wait for initiative too. By that logic, I don't have enough initiative in my pool and the ini regen is too low, because I can't spam whatever I want whenever I want. It also feels bad, because I'd feel much better to not be limited by any type of recource and instead I'd rather spam my kitten 24/7. It's slightly over the top (but really just slightly), but you probably get the idea. Just because you're limited by a resource (that's there for a reason) and can't spam something "off cooldown" isn't really a valid argument in my eyes. And from what I've seen in your past posts neither it should be in yours. "feels bad because I can't spam it" is just... yh...

Right ... but you can manage initiative .. you can CHOOSE what to do that affects your initiative pool ... Berserker does not. You just camp until the bar is full. For me, it's not about having to wait; you wait for almost everything in this game. At least with V1 berserker ... I had that choice. Honestly ... this is probably my biggest philosophical problem with Berserker ... removed choice to play it. I just wait for a full bar, press F1 and then just spam a high DPS burst as much as I can. It could have been massive cool spec ... or as cool as this simple class could be .. instead it was massively dumbed down even more than regular warrior already was.

Like someone said ... we were handed a hit and run class ... on a class that doesn't really run.

[Solori.6025]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:When I'm spamming skills on thief, I have to wait for initiative too. By that logic, I don't have enough initiative in my pool and the ini regen is too low, because I can't spam whatever I want whenever I want. It also feels bad, because I'd feel much better to not be limited by any type of recource and instead I'd rather spam my kitten 24/7. It's slightly over the top (but really just slightly), but you probably get the idea. Just because you're limited by a resource (that's there for a reason) and can't spam something "off cooldown" isn't really a valid argument in my eyes. And from what I've seen in your past posts neither it should be in yours. "feels bad because I can't spam it" is just... yh...

Right ... but you can

manage

initiative .. you can CHOOSE what to do that affects your initiative pool ...

Actually, I was told this by a thief main.And I quote

@Turk.5460 said:

Initiative is a cooldown -

So. Obviously, thieves have it harder and it can't be managed because initiative is actually a cooldown.

Also. Anet makes a change, if they like it, it stays. If it doesn't work they change it. Obviously the old berserker didn't work. They like the new one. Just because you don't like how they do it doesn't mean it's a mistake. Don't impose your own ideas of how the class should work; only you will always be wrong if you do that.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@kasoki.5180 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@kasoki.5180 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@"Hitman.5829"

And what each of us is telling you is that all you are doing is spitting into the wind as far as Anet is concerned because they have offered numerous tools to increase adrenaline gain. If you are trying to make an argument that passive gain should be increased, then you need to take these numerous tools into account because if you come up with numbers that indicate that warriors have no problem maintaining adrenaline then I can tell you Anet already beat you there and concluded that all the ways that warrior can gain adrenaline justify the base regen/decay rates.

And how many of those tools are actually used in actual builds? Not trolling, genuine question. Because to me it seems that not to many do

Berserker in raids and WvW at least use Blood Reckoning, Headbutt, and/or "To The Limit!" to fuel their bursts. Some others use Berserker's Stance or Signet of Fury. There was one guy, I forget who, that was raving about Opportunist from Arms (I prefer to take Signet Mastery myself). Disc gives you +5 adrenaline on weapon swap by default. Burst Mastery gives you a refund, and non axe users who use Disc take that usually. Axe Mastery itself gives +2 adrenaline on a crit with Axe, and if you run axes you run Axe Mastery. Cleansing Ire builds adrenaline upon getting hit in addition to the condi cleanse when hitting with a burst and people take that often. A fair number of the 'tools' are tied into other functions, so many of them get taken along for the ride.

It's actually hard to

not

have good adrenaline upkeep if you run Discipline, and most warriors run Discipline because it is 2019 and Fast Hands is not baseline yet. And none of this brings in cleaving and hitting multiple enemies at once, or multi hit/fast attacks.

Things that you have mentioned are not really used in PvP. Sure, you CAN use some of them, but then again you CAN use pretty much anything. It doesnt mean that it produces a valid or legit build that people will actually play.

The only semi-legit skill is Berserker's stance and its not really all that goodArms is seldom run since GS is still the meta weapons with Strength traitline. Opportunist and Furious are not that good because of internal CD on opportunist and bonus value on furious isn't really that valuable in PvPBurst mastery requires you to actually use the burst skill first, so its a "catch 22". Not really a source of adrenaline

So that means you basically have +5 on weapon swap.

Yeah, if you run Def, Disc meta. But if you are in Disc and run axes then where is the problem with gaining Adrenaline? In Def you can take Cleansing Ire, which also boosts adrenaline gain. This was also about WvW though, and there is more leeway there that opens up traitlines. Opportunist does have an ICD (I've also already said that I prefer other traits), but that is still more gain, and Furious effectively doubles your adrenaline gain rate. Furious + Axe Mastery, if you build for 100% crit, quadruples your adrenaline gain rate. Honestly one or the other is enough to solve anyone's adrenaline gain problems, one for a specific weapon, the other for any weapon.

@Obtena.7952 said:I won't comment on specifics of one game mode over another but it's generally my experience playing Berserker since the patch that I'm more often waiting for adrenaline than I am a CD for F1 skills ... and I'm exclusively running Signet Elite.

Now, I'm not saying we don't get enough adrenaline but this situation is another bad-feeling double dipped resource. I'm waiting for a CD AND a full adrenaline bar to access a mode ... one of the complains I made regarding the unbalanced situation between Berserker and it's counterparts on the 'value' you get for adrenaline in each spec.

Well if you are running Berserker you have Blood Reckoning that solves both of those problems right? Or were you meaning Berserk Mode and not the Primal Bursts, because BR regrettably does not work on Bmode.

The passive adrenaline gain from Signet of Rage is lackluster, and is pretty much a wasted slot if it remains unused in a fight (my opinion, you a free to feel otherwise without me trashing you for it).

If you are having trouble with adrenaline gain, perhaps different trait choices should be made. I find myself waiting on F1 CD more often than adrenaline myself, but then I also prioritize hitting multiple targets.

[Obtena.7952]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Well if you are running Berserker you have Blood Reckoning that solves both of those problems right? Or were you meaning Berserk Mode and not the Primal Bursts, because BR regrettably does not work on Bmode.

Running BR doesn't really solve the problem I have; the disparity between the 'value' of your adrenaline as a berserker. I mean, we wait for adrenaline in all modes but when I lose choice of action for the double-dipping of 'trade-offs' to get into berserker mode, I expect something more or better than camping for a full adrenaline bar. I know this isn't the message the OP is presenting but I think it's the correct one. Honestly, I don't believe mathematically proving adrenaline gain is a problem is the way to compel the discussion for change.

The passive adrenaline gain from Signet of Rage is lackluster, and is pretty much a wasted slot if it remains unused in a fight (my opinion, you a free to feel otherwise without me trashing you for it).

I'm still 'exploring' this build I have but I think that conclusion is correct. It's almost better to use it actively in non-berserker mode than passively. Even then ... meh.

If you are having trouble with adrenaline gain, perhaps different trait choices should be made. I find myself waiting on F1 CD more often than adrenaline myself, but then I also prioritize hitting multiple targets.

Yes, I've played around with these options. I'm still fiddling with choices I have but ultimately, I'm still believe we have some deficiency in the design of the spec.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Well if you are running Berserker you have Blood Reckoning that solves both of those problems right? Or were you meaning Berserk Mode and not the Primal Bursts, because BR regrettably does not work on Bmode.

Running BR doesn't really solve the problem I have; the disparity between the 'value' of your adrenaline as a berserker. I mean, we wait for adrenaline in all modes but when I lose choice of action for the double-dipping of 'trade-offs' to get into berserker mode, I expect something more or better than camping for a full adrenaline bar. I know this isn't the message the OP is presenting but I think it's the correct one. Honestly, I don't believe mathematically proving adrenaline gain is a problem is the way to compel the discussion for change.

The passive adrenaline gain from Signet of Rage is lackluster, and is pretty much a wasted slot if it remains unused in a fight (my opinion, you a free to feel otherwise without me trashing you for it).

I'm still 'exploring' this build I have but I think that conclusion is correct. It's almost better to use it actively in non-berserker mode than passively. Even then ... meh.

If you are having trouble with adrenaline gain, perhaps different trait choices should be made. I find myself waiting on F1 CD more often than adrenaline myself, but then I also prioritize hitting multiple targets.

Yes, I've played around with these options. I'm still fiddling with choices I have but ultimately, I'm still believe we have some deficiency in the design of the spec.

As well all have said, either the cd on berserk mode needs to be lower, or there needs to be tiers of entry. Honestly, if they consider it a Primal Burst, give it the same CD as other Primal Bursts, but have it count as a T3 burst for adrenal health and berserker's power, then it would be in a fine spot.

[Sobx.1758]

@"Obtena.7952" said:Yes, I've played around with these options. I'm still fiddling with choices I have but ultimately, I'm still believe we have some deficiency in the design of the spec.

Again, just because you can't spam something "off cooldown" whenever you want and then claim it "feels bad" because of that, doesn't make it a deficient design. It's not like you can't dislike the spec, that's perfectly ok. Just calling the design itself deficient because you can't spam something all the time with no restrictions is simply wrong.Your "double dipping" complaint is also not exactly accurate imo, because both of these limitations target different things.

[Turk.5460]

@Solori.6025 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:When I'm spamming skills on thief, I have to wait for initiative too. By that logic, I don't have enough initiative in my pool and the ini regen is too low, because I can't spam whatever I want whenever I want. It also feels bad, because I'd feel much better to not be limited by any type of recource and instead I'd rather spam my kitten 24/7. It's slightly over the top (but really just slightly), but you probably get the idea. Just because you're limited by a resource (that's there for a reason) and can't spam something "off cooldown" isn't really a valid argument in my eyes. And from what I've seen in your past posts neither it should be in yours. "feels bad because I can't spam it" is just... yh...

Right ... but you can

manage

initiative .. you can CHOOSE what to do that affects your initiative pool ...

Actually, I was told this by a thief main.And I quote

@"Turk.5460" said:

Initiative is a cooldown -

So. Obviously, thieves have it harder and it can't be managed because initiative is actually a cooldown.

What's the rest of the context of this post you're tagging me in? Initiative as a resource isn't the exact same as a cooldown, but this is a general response I would give to someone who ignorantly claims "Thief skills have no cooldowns!" without providing reasoning as to why Thieves are able to use skills in succession.

Your [wildly inaccurate] comparison of "Initiative is a cooldown" and "Initiative can't be managed" is asinine and clearly shows you are losing ground in whatever argument you are having.

[Solori.6025]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:When I'm spamming skills on thief, I have to wait for initiative too. By that logic, I don't have enough initiative in my pool and the ini regen is too low, because I can't spam whatever I want whenever I want. It also feels bad, because I'd feel much better to not be limited by any type of recource and instead I'd rather spam my kitten 24/7. It's slightly over the top (but really just slightly), but you probably get the idea. Just because you're limited by a resource (that's there for a reason) and can't spam something "off cooldown" isn't really a valid argument in my eyes. And from what I've seen in your past posts neither it should be in yours. "feels bad because I can't spam it" is just... yh...

Right ... but you can

manage

initiative .. you can CHOOSE what to do that affects your initiative pool ...

Actually, I was told this by a thief main.And I quote

@Turk.5460 said:

Initiative is a cooldown -

So. Obviously, thieves have it harder and it can't be managed because initiative is actually a cooldown.

What's the rest of the context of this post you're tagging me in? Initiative as a resource isn't the exact same as a cooldown, but this is a general response I would give to someone who ignorantly claims "Thief skills have no cooldowns!" without providing reasoning as to

why

Thieves are able to use skills in succession.

Go back and read it, It's your quote?

Your [wildly inaccurate] comparison of "Initiative is a cooldown" and "Initiative can't be managed" is asinine and clearly shows you are losing ground in whatever argument you are having.

Wasn't an arguement, more like a dig...I think that's what you kids call it now.

Edit: Also my post to Obtena was sarcasm. Anyone with a brain knows that initiative isn't a cooldown, and anyone with a brain would also know that thief weapon skills also do not have a cooldown. Rather their use and frequency is dependent on the skill level of the user. A bad thief see's initiative as a finite pool. Good thieves can make it seem as if their resources are unlimited. Using skills at the right time, and only when needed. As with any discussion I would hope people assume the skill levels of the latter, and not the former.Edit 2:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/23596/gs-shatter-burst-a-little-too-strong/p1Context that you need.

[Obtena.7952]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:Yes, I've played around with these options. I'm still fiddling with choices I have but ultimately, I'm still believe we have some deficiency in the design of the spec.

Again, just because you can't spam something "off cooldown" whenever you want and then claim it "feels bad" because of that, doesn't make it a deficient design.

I didn't say it was. Spamming something off cooldown doesn't indicate deficient design.

[Sobx.1758]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Yes, I've played around with these options. I'm still fiddling with choices I have but ultimately, I'm still believe we have some deficiency in the design of the spec.

Again, just because you can't spam something "off cooldown" whenever you want and then claim it "feels bad" because of that, doesn't make it a deficient design.

I didn't say it was. Spamming something off cooldown doesn't indicate deficient design.

Ok. That's just what it sounded like in the context of your previous posts in this thread.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

In a 1v1 i can see your point adrenaline does accumulate slowly. But in a team fight scenario lets say the standard 5v5 that pvp is, when a war gets a down and then starts wailling on the 1-2 people trying to get that res, the adrenaline accumulation is fine and thats what its probably balanced around.But most of the time i run the signet that instantly fills my adrenaline bar so i dont jave to start off a fight weak.I think adrenaline should behave like shroud......why should adrenalin deplete at all if shroud doesn't.

[Sobx.1758]

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:why should adrenalin deplete at all if shroud doesn't.

Because these are 2 different things.

[Obtena.7952]

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:In a 1v1 i can see your point adrenaline does accumulate slowly. But in a team fight scenario lets say the standard 5v5 that pvp is, when a war gets a down and then starts wailling on the 1-2 people trying to get that res, the adrenaline accumulation is fine and thats what its probably balanced around.But most of the time i run the signet that instantly fills my adrenaline bar so i dont jave to start off a fight weak.I think adrenaline should behave like shroud......why should adrenalin deplete at all if shroud doesn't.

Have to disagree ... what is the value of blurring the lines between classes?

There isn't a reason to do so because there IS a solution in the space of 'depleting adrenaline'.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Henry.5713 said:My biggest gripe with the way Guild Wars 2 is balanced is the fact that we very rarely see old nerfs reverted no matter much the meta game has changed due to expansion powercreep, no matter how punishing those nerfs turned out to be years later.Warrior is a prime example of such nerfs happening to a few of the old builds. Hambow, Shoutbow and pretty much any Berserker variants haven't really be seen after they got nerfed harshly. Some of them wouldn't work against the current builds even if they hadn't been nerfed given how overblown things have become over the years.

I think Ele vanilla cantrip nerfs and vanilla ele nerfs in general are the best example of this, honestly.

[zionophir.6845]

the target audience of this thread is directed solely for a warrior that does 1v1.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@zionophir.6845 said:the target audience of this thread is directed solely for a warrior that does 1v1.

Who refuses to use any of the tools available to them to increase adrenaline gain.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"zionophir.6845" said:the target audience of this thread is directed solely for a warrior that does 1v1.

Who refuses to use any of the tools available to them to increase adrenaline gain.

Well that's not true.

He take as granted that he will use signet of rage and discipline as a traitline for the sole purpose of swaping weapon every 5 seconds to proc the minor traits adrenaline gain. The hole in this reasoning is that he compare adrenaline depletion out of combat to adrenaline regeneration in combat, adrenaline don't deplete while in combat and SoR/ weapon swap trait don't proc out of combat.

Personnally I don't have any issue with the fact that adrenaline drop faster out of combat than it regen while in combat. In a way, it's even an interestingly realistic design.

NB.: I believe the thread isn't directed for 1v1 warrior, it look more like WvW warrior than anything. The depletion rate prevent the warrior to make himself "burst ready" which can suck when enter and leave combat repeatedly due to zerg behavior and build limitation (a lot of warrior simply don't take range weapons that could keep them in combat due to their reliance on melee weapon swap to be as effective as possible when it's melee time). The whole thing is mainly a build issue from someone that don't want to accept that he play a build focused on being effective only in a fraction of what a fight can offer. If I were mean I'd say that he should just stop using a PvE build for PvP/WvW.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"zionophir.6845" said:the target audience of this thread is directed solely for a warrior that does 1v1.

Who refuses to use any of the tools available to them to increase adrenaline gain.

Well that's not true.

He take as granted that he will use signet of rage and discipline as a traitline for the sole purpose of swaping weapon every 5 seconds to proc the minor traits adrenaline gain. The hole in this reasoning is that he compare adrenaline depletion out of combat to adrenaline regeneration in combat, adrenaline don't deplete while in combat and SoR/ weapon swap trait don't proc out of combat.

Personnally I don't have any issue with the fact that adrenaline drop faster out of combat than it regen while in combat. In a way, it's even an interestingly realistic design.

NB.: I believe the thread isn't directed for 1v1 warrior, it look more like WvW warrior than anything. The depletion rate prevent the warrior to make himself "burst ready" which can suck when enter and leave combat repeatedly due to zerg behavior and build limitation (a lot of warrior simply don't take range weapons that could keep them in combat due to their reliance on melee weapon swap to be as effective as possible when it's melee time). The whole thing is mainly a build issue from someone that don't want to accept that he play a build focused on being effective only in a fraction of what a fight can offer. If I were mean I'd say that he should just stop using a PvE build for PvP/WvW.

Not mean to point out the obvious. He has no right to complain about adrenaline gain when he doesn't build for it. Signet of Rage passive is a joke, and he includes adrenaline gain from weapon swap because he never takes Disc off so it is there anyway. He needs to switch to axes and run axe mastery instead of GS/Rifle. That or suck it up and use any of the skills in slots 6-0 that aid in adrenaline gain.