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It's time to stop balancing WvW around zerg PvP


Shiyo.3578

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@Shiyo.3578 said:Yes, except for the fact that trying to balance around zerg pvp has done nothing positive for zerg pvp and only made roaming and small scale completely horrific and awful.

Thus, it's time to just stop.

Roaming is dead and small scale are groups that only fight when they have more numbers.On NA, less populated servers have barely any tags running off peak times, so people just log off and wait for prime time.On more populated servers it's only about the k-train.

WvW is a joke as a PvP mode.

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@"Kaiser.9873" said:WvW is and has been marketed as epic battles, large clashes, etc.

Small scale roaming is a ancillary feature of WvW, it is not the main focus.You want play balanced around small scale? Go play sPvP.

Does it seem like there's been an influx of ex-PvPers entering WvW lately. Seems every other post wants to make WvW more like sPvP.

"Epic battles" against other players, so why would you use PvE balance where you fight only vs mobs? PvP starts being boring at some point, some quitted like season 4, some season 9 and some now. For some ppl (like me included) WvW small scale is more amusing than PvP because here you just simply duel/do outnumber fights/roam with friends without need of holding conquest points and thingys.But I agree, why would PvP balance occur in WvW? Its just another mode that should be left alone, until another person (maybe you this time) will slack behind fellow zerg and get caught by random roaming revenant that in WvW has neither nerfed sword nor staff damage :)

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@"Widmo.3186" said:"Epic battles" against other players, so why would you use PvE balance where you fight only vs mobs? PvP starts being boring at some point, some quitted like season 4, some season 9 and some now. For some ppl (like me included) WvW small scale is more amusing than PvP because here you just simply duel/do outnumber fights/roam with friends without need of holding conquest points and thingys.But I agree, why would PvP balance occur in WvW? Its just another mode that should be left alone, until another person (maybe you this time) will slack behind fellow zerg and get caught by random roaming revenant that in WvW has neither nerfed sword nor staff damage :)

I'm glad someone gets it. The last sentence, especially. It just feels like a sick joke to be playing the WORST version of PvP for...absolutely no reason. Zergs aren't better balanced, and small scale/roaming is actually just...borderline unplayable, to be honest.

@Kaiser.9873 said:WvW is and has been marketed as epic battles, large clashes, etc.

Small scale roaming is a ancillary feature of WvW, it is not the main focus.You want play balanced around small scale? Go play sPvP.

Does it seem like there's been an influx of ex-PvPers entering WvW lately. Seems every other post wants to make WvW more like sPvP.

Give me a middle ground (wow bgs like arathi basin) and I wouldn't be complaining. We have competitive esports team based 5v5 PvP, and 100 vs 100 PvP. There's no medium scale PvP, and WvW can't be that because of awful, awful balance.

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@shiri.4257 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:I explained why - by trying to balance around zerg PvP, you have not only failed at creating fun and balanced zerg pvp, but you have also done it at the expense of roaming and small scale PvP. Balancing around zerg PvP has zero benefits.

Zerg pvp is fun when you are winning. Not so much when you have an undisciplined squad of roamers trying to Zerg.

I would say Zerg is only fun when it’s needed due atacking andecent defense keep, sadly there’s no other reason than Ktrain, when it’s a challange on the other side, whe its a ktrain vs empty server it’s just a bunch of idiots playing a game w/o challange, lost of brain activity issues or something...

Keeps need a treasure room so the guilds taking care of those places want them defenses rather tha. Ignore and let it cap....

If Anet keep up with this idiotic wannabe siege mode rather remove all walls and call this alliance battles like we had on gw1..pve players will love it and players can communicate to ktrain shrines and avoid fighting each other.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Currently, zerg PvP's meta is not fun, nor is it balanced in any way. It also lags sometimes for people even on top end PC's depending on the zerg size(s).

On top of this, by balancing around(and not even creating good balance) zerg PvP, you have completely destroyed roaming, 1v1, and small scale PvP. There are far, far, FAR too many completely gimmicky impossible to kill, or 1 shot builds in WvW compared to sPvP.

Energy sigil being 2x as strong, endure pain lasting 2x as long are just some examples of making players much harder to kill in WvW than SPvP. What this does is encourage people to play brick wall builds that, if attacked, can easily run away spamming invuls/dodges/blocks/evades until they get to their tower. If you are not fighting this type of build, you're fighting some player who can immediately 1 shot you or perma stealth forever while slowly killing you with zero ways to interact with them. This makes roaming very boring and unsatisfying.

By balancing around zerg PvP, you have not created fun zerg PvP, while at the same time you have created completely unbearable roaming and small scale PvP to the point where very few people want to do roaming or small scale due to how many unfun builds there are that either cannot die, can run away from anything, or are perma stealth/1 shotting you.

This doesn't even get into mounts which were implemented in a very unfun way, and probably not thought about much at all. Mounts make roaming/small scale, which is already bad, even worse.

My proposal is this:

Balance around small scale/roaming. Use SPvP balance, do not balance around zergs. This way, roaming and small scale PvP is at least enjoyable, while zerg PvP will be just as badly balanced and unfun as it currently is while you are attempting to only balance around zerg PvP. At least this way, some of WvW will be fun instead of 100% of it being unfun. Balancing around zergs has not made zerg pvp any more fun or more balanced, and the cost of doing so has completely destroyed and ruined small scale/roaming pvp.

What is GW2 WvW?

“The inspiration for World versus World came from Dark Age of Camelot's realm vs. realm battles."

“The game combines Arthurian lore, Norse mythology and Irish Celtic legends with a dash of high fantasy. It is set in the period after King Arthur's death and his kingdom has split into three parts which are in a constant state of war with each other. DAoC includes both Player versus Environment (PvE) and Realm versus Realm (RvR) combat.”

“In 2001, Mythic Entertainment introduced a new team-based form of PvP combat with the release of Dark Age of Camelot and called it Realm versus Realm. In Realm vs Realm the rules would be similar to PvP combat. Where a single combatant or a group faces one another in PvP. RVR introduces entire Factions fighting each other. RvR was also made more interesting by bypassing the normal "red vs blue" type team battles seen in most games at the time. For RvR, they created a third faction to bring about a large scale "Rock-Paper-Scissors" experience. Last they chose to allow Realm vs Realm to be played out in an open world PvP environment known as the RvR zone. The RvR zone was a free to roam map where players had the choice of where to attack, when to attack, and with how many players. Complete battlefield freedom (even the freedom to not take part) allowed for RvR and DAOC to become one of the most successful MMOs of its time.”

Wow this video makes it look so cool where it looks like an RTS where you are 1 unit with many battles, i as a roamer joined this game for this aspect really.

But yeah it is just monoblob ktraining now vs a door so yeah. Epic battles i see rarely, it's basically silverwastes.

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Widmo.3186" said:"Epic battles" against other players, so why would you use PvE balance where you fight
only
vs mobs? PvP starts being boring at some point, some quitted like season 4, some season 9 and some now. For some ppl (like me included) WvW small scale is more amusing than PvP because here you just simply duel/do outnumber fights/roam with friends without need of holding conquest points and thingys.But I agree, why would PvP balance occur in WvW? Its just another mode that should be left alone, until another person (maybe you this time) will slack behind fellow zerg and get caught by random roaming revenant that in WvW has neither nerfed sword nor staff damage :)

I'm glad someone gets it. The last sentence, especially. It just feels like a sick joke to be playing the WORST version of PvP for...absolutely no reason. Zergs aren't better balanced, and small scale/roaming is actually just...borderline unplayable, to be honest.

@Kaiser.9873 said:WvW is and has been marketed as epic battles, large clashes, etc.

Small scale roaming is a ancillary feature of WvW, it is not the main focus.You want play balanced around small scale? Go play sPvP.

Does it seem like there's been an influx of ex-PvPers entering WvW lately. Seems every other post wants to make WvW more like sPvP.

Give me a middle ground (wow bgs like arathi basin) and I wouldn't be complaining. We have competitive esports team based 5v5 PvP, and 100 vs 100 PvP. There's no medium scale PvP, and WvW can't be that because of awful, awful balance.

You're asking for a completely different game mode. This game has 5v5 and 80v80. It doesn't have 15v15 or 40v40 like WoW. Also there are times that you can get groups of 15 or 20 to fight. The trick is keeping those fights to yourself, and not broadcasting it to the whole BL.

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