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shadowpass.4236
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Nerf Mantra Mesmers and Revenants
shadowpass.4236
Member ✭✭✭✭
in PVP
I just fought against a double mantra mesmer, double rev duo.
There are:
- No animations to dodge
- 17 different targets on my screen
- They can be at 3 points simultaneously
- If I stop dodging I get one-shot
- I'm perma revealed and all of their attacks are unblockable
- Stability gets instantly stripped and if you don't die you can't cast any skills because of the cc chains and constant interrupts
- You can't run away from them
- No-port spots are useless
Mantras should not exist and both builds/classes both need huge damage nerfs and reworks. Matches like these are actually unplayable. There are no ways to fight against builds/comps like these and they do not require any skill to play. Unlike sic em longbow soulbeasts, there are no tells for the damage and you can't defend yourself with line of sight and terrain.
QQ T-T L2P
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Yeah! nerf manta cuz is still works.. Obliviate so it's gone.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I fought a team with double mantra mesmer yesterday and absolutely could not participate in the fight. In the very literal sense. I could not use my skills, I was constantly dazed/stunned. There was no tell, not only is it instant this is compounded by initiating from stealth. If I stopped evading, dead, instantly. Not in a second, not in a half second, instantly or at least in about 250ms which might as well be instantly.
I get the nerf threads on Soulbeast and Holosmith but why has no one made a thread on this until now? I feel like it's pretty broken. I wont even address Revenant, there are already threads on that mess.
Depression and anxiety are the worst...
Power creep ruins pvp
Just LoS mesmer, the clones won't passively cc you or hit for 8k
Siren E-Spec for Mesmer
LoS doesn't work. Mesmers can blink/jaunt behind the terrain and still one-shot you. You can't use no-port spots against mantra mesmers either because their burst comes from mostly ranged damage. Gs2, gs3, and the mantras will still hit. They can also gs5 you off.
Just dodge
Siren E-Spec for Mesmer
So you are actually complaining about full zerk build without any sustain, any cleanse that use his only breakstun and only stealth on 30s cd that must use all his defense tools to attemtp to kill you... ? Seriously ?
Gs2 is the only unblockable that mesmer has on entire class and hit like a wet noodle.
Only invul? WHAT? Literally everything works: dodge(1.5-2s later after stealth or when u him raising his hand for mirror blade),blocking, LoS, noport. Without frontloading everything right next to your face it wont kill you
If you seen/know about mesmer presence that want to oneshot you, his chance to kill you drastically fall off.Neither see purple sword flying next to you, phantasmal berserk spawned next to you, not trying to find LoS( which is obviously work and u wont ever get oneshot from 2 mantras alone ),not doing anything to anticipate the burst, then you 100% deserved to die.
kitten it, tell your team to get 1 thief and they will be stuck on respawn
+1
Exactly this
'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'
@praqtos.9035
The mirage doesn't need any of those defenses because the burst will hit 100% of the time if they aren't a potato and can time instant cast ccs. They don't even need the mantras to set up the burst. Blink + Diversion with Confounding Suggestions is effectively an instant 1200 range stun that can be used WHILST simultaneously casting gs2.
I'm not going to argue this point any further.
I am not sure 2 Mesmer and 2 rev even manage to win (assuming equal skill). If the opponent team has and FB, scourge, SB and whatever, the 2 Mesmer and 2 rev team will be obliterated.
how about only one class per team instead of further nerfs.
te lazla otstara.
fingers crossed meta ~
lol this is my second time playing this berserker power mirage build and I went 26-0 with 40% of the team's damage cause the bursts are so easy to land
in a 12 min 30 second match that means I was getting roughly one kill every 27 seconds
"dont need any defense" 4Head OmegaLUL
You were actually playing oneshot soulbeast, I was in that match as well.
(Obviously I wasn't, /s)
Siren E-Spec for Mesmer
Unranked arena 4head OmegaLUL
Where do you think I fought the mantra mesmers? Ranked. They farmed my pugs there so just cause you can't time your bursts doesn't mean other people can't.
It's actually ez mode lmao
I thought Mes was trash tier according to these forums?
Mantras are only maybe ok as a concept if they are implemented such that they can't affect the opponent. Cleanse, heal, self might gen etc are fine. CC and such are not fine.
Then stop playing unranked and get in the top 10 one season with it. How can we even determine anything from one screenshot of an unranked game you played?
How to prove somethign : go unranked, farm some noobs, claim that what you are played is "absolutely busted" . Ok.
Screenshot says otherwise.
The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!
Have you read my other comments in this thread?
Siren E-Spec for Mesmer
@Xstein.2187
@praqtos.9035
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/special-pleading
There are literally duo ques of berserker mantra mesmers climbing in high plat. Asides from steal, the entire mantra burst is the EASIEST combo to land in the entire game.
It's easy to dodge,Just dodge
And when facing a warrior you must dodge his dodge.
Dodging dodges to dodge a dodge before the dodge kills you.
Dodgeception or game of dodges?
You want to fix mesmer? Make it so the clones share the Mesmers health pool. Make it so everytime a clone gets hit, it takes off a little of the mesmers health.
Bring back Ceara
Okay, this time I'll talk seriously.
In NA, there really are lots of mesmer players in all ranks, including plat. I guess people like Shorts really made an impact.
In EU though, there are too less mesmers, let alone power, playing properly. Most of them either left the game, changed mains or went pve.
It's understandable how it's hard to reach a conclusion, but it's obvious that any kind of power mesmer is underwhelming to play. In case of NA, they win any tournament anyway.
Source: Youtube, NA and EU leaderboards, stats from FFA arenas (what do people play and what badge they have), mATs and ToL.
Siren E-Spec for Mesmer
No, NA always had way more Powermesmer than EU because NA has a different meta and Powermes is a good noobkiller, thus you can easy play it in NA even in higher ranked solo/duo q and mATs, because no competition at all. Just watch some NA streams sometimes, even high ranked ppl do not watch left and rigth and get oneshotted by the most obvious bursts in the world. EU has more than one high skilled Powermes i bet can compete with every NA Mesmer without problems and i am not only talking about the ex esl guys, who stopped playing power after Hot release.
That Powermes is a good noobkiller is also the reason why showing some gameplay or even only topstat results from an average player with 2 hours playtime on Powermes wrecking some noobs doesn't prove anything about how easy or broken Powermesmer is.
To the topic: The only mantra needs to get a rework is Mantra of Pain, this skill is braindead spammable. The whole concept of ranged instant dmg is stupid when it is that high. That such a skill then stacks might and has no cd in addition is even more crazy. The other Mantras are fine, also Mantra of Distraction without having a stun anymore. Lost Time and CI need a good nerf , these traits clearly cause some trouble and brainless gameplay.
Rev doesn't really need a nerf, you can cut the sword offhand dmg a little bit but that is all in my opinion.
Wait, does that mean he relogged to mesmer before match ended but was playing Ranger until then? That would make my day!
"playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18
I think it is time to nerf heralds. Give them the DE treatment.
Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) nom nom nom🥔
Fun Daredevil
This is not special pleading because what you posted would not have been adequate evidence for any class.
It's not special pleading unless you are making yourself or someone else exempt from the criteria. Both of us have not done this.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/163/Special-Pleading
If you are going to try to call someone out, at least inform yourself of what you are talking about.
Here is a video of an ele in platinum before it was buffed.
Is this evidence that Ele should not have been buffed before and Staff Ele should be nerfed next patch?
I would say not.
All I am looking for is good evidence. Your screenshot just doesn't answer a lot of questions. How do we know you aren't lying and just did good that match and cherry picked? How do we know you could have got the same results in a more competitive format (ranked). How do we know you are not an above average player skill wise and could do well with almost any class? How do we know your MMR wasn't trash before you played again, giving you easier games when you started playing? How do we know other people may do better, and not just you, if they switch to mesmer (and not just an arbitrary value that you choose to call "Good Enough")
All of this can be solved by:
1. Looking at the ranked leaderboards and seeing what the top ranked preferred classes are and
2. Looking to see what is preferred in tournaments
This information is likely easily accessible to the devs and far more valuable than a single unranked screenshot. They have the data, so let them decide.
The only reason I can think of that people don't agree with using this data is that they are biased and scared that the dev's data isn't going to match up to their desired expectations.
Mesmers always deserve a nerf as they never get under control. Nerf mantras please. And rev just got out of control, nerf it too.
Fix the game Devs. C'mon.
HAHAHAH snap
Tingle my stingleberry
Ah, the ranger mains must be getting nervous that too many are seeing how OP soulbeast is so they need to start distracting people about mesmers...again.
Revs I won't question, but yo; @shadowpass.4236 there's some information on power shatter I think you should add in here.
Firstly, nearly every power shatter mesmer skill is blockable including mantras. Meaning there's far more options than to just dodge. That meme actually comes from another build for ranger that i'm sure you're familiar with. If you're going to give that build a pass on the "just invuln" excuse, then the same courtesy should be extended to builds/classes like power shatter mirage which actually give more options to react rather than dodging or using an invuln; rare as they are.
Secondly, Power Shatter Mesmer actually has the lowest damage multipliers available to all the other DPS side-noders/gank classes at a measly 12.5% with max stacks of vulnerability. Guess which one has the highest? That same ranger build i mentioned that you're probably familiar with has 42% on unblockable openers from stealth, 82% with sic 'em.
Thirdly,
Should probably point out that you're running Berserkers stats, because Power Shatter also doesn't have any good sustain and zerk stats make it even more squishy. Absolutely 0 condi cleanse too. All too unlike that ranger build I keep mentioning, which has far better sustain, condi cleanse, and uses Demolishers and still manages to top Power Shatter in damage a lot of the time.
And finally; on a more unrelated and inquisitive note,
You are aware that is unranked, and your competition for top damage is Daredevil, Druid, and what looks to be a condi mirage; right? Really, I want to know what that person on the other team is on with every single top stat. 0.0
Ranked DuoQ 😡👉🚪
Patch-culture is awful
Nerfs should be reserved for extreme cases and only done in creative ways that make the game more interesting to play and watch.
Nah, this thread is probably opened because of "nerf soulbeasts" thread.
I was just pointing at this. I am EU main even though I play on both
Siren E-Spec for Mesmer
People still have trouble with a 2012 combo...See the mesmer get into stealth or the giant purple greatsword coming at you? Dodge, congrats you just killed the mesmer. 7skills on cd+0 sustain+0 condi cleanse+0 stunbreaks.
The degenerate
These are clearly too many good arguments to not be convinced. Finally a post not just using some empty phrases and shine with game knowledge. The constructivity of this post is mindblowing. Good that these are the ppl anet is listening to when balancing.
"playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18
Revs have higher damage than they should because of power creep to various traits. Anets solution will be to nerf rev mechanics.
Mantra is able to oneshot people very quickly due to busted mechanics with how the traits and overall class design works. Anets solution will be to nerf power mes damage.
None of us want this to be true, but we all know it likely is.
Busted mechanics? Is this clone complaint again?
Highly doubt power mesmer will get another round of nerfs as they attempted to nerf condi and gave power tons of nerfs.
Damage nerf on the class with lowest sustained damage among every class? Wont happen
I've never liked the idea of mantras, at least the ones that do damage. Inherently uncompetitive. The interrupt is fine but not with damage from Power Block.
The Top Row traits on Chronomancer provides ridiculous damage and need serious nerfs.
Best Dressed Memser NA.
Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.
"playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18
Power Block cannot critical anymore.
Anet buff me :-(
Make me good at game!
^ this
In fact power block is bugged now, its cant crit/apply weakness on 3s cd as if its PVE. If you want to nerf LT, then nerf to hell LROD ele as well as it does twice as much damage.
(cant say CI is not annoying to get immobed but its also in no damage traitline as well)
You are pretty much complain about the only good traits left for mesmer
They could rework GS since its in terrible state and has only 1 use -> combo shatter since 2012
Didn't know about this, i only know that an interrupt Mesmer only using Powerblock and Mantra of Distrction and not Ci or Lost Time is only annoying to fight against when it is played very well and even than you win the fights vs it with most other classes pretty easy. And yes lighting rod Eles are way lamer (in particular since shock aura is not even active interrupt gameplay when applied passive or stay long enough to interrupt a second time) but a fresh air Ele also beats Mantra of Pain in its retardedness by far. The only reason Ele is not main target for nerf cries atm is, that Ele luckily doesn't have a role in conquest. Ele is already one of the easiest classes to play and not weak at all. That counts for the brainless facetank builds, the nearly perma dodge condi build and the dmg builds lighting rod and fresh air.
"playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18
Blink and Jaunt require line of sight. No line of sight? It wont let you port.
Best Dressed Memser NA.
What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.
Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.
That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.
"playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18
Please don't nerf power mesmer. It is more or less fine as it is, minor changes for more fun to play and play against would be nice (CI, damage mantra...). It can be countered easily - with sage's weaver, I have no issues with them. More so with revenants, but I think, everybody thinks they need minor nerfs - better than buffing condi to counter them, probably.
Apart from that, wow, I agree with mostly everything @bravan.3876 says.
Weavers are one of the classes that extremely unfun to fight against: lots of evades,sustain,stability (burns/lrod) despite it not being meta level. Pretty much all meta classes are not fun to play against because they are the most broken/strongest.
Rampage still crit me 10-11k and twoshot me from full health, nerfs? Nah
May be people want more condi mirages in their games? Unnerf condi then, revenants will vanish on their own
I should've said "relevant skill activation" and "not randomly spammable".
I would agree weaver should get changes, but right now, I am just happy it doesn't get nerfed too harshly every patch anymore.
But let's not focus too much on weaver in this thread. I'd be happy to discuss those problems in another thread though!
Nerfs/changes/rework on CI/LT are welcomed when they compensate its loss. Enough of useless/dead traits
Greatsword on the mesmer need a rework, not just buff/nerfs. So its shifted from burst shatter and create a new way to play weapon/class.