Nerf Mantra Mesmers and Revenants — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Nerf Mantra Mesmers and Revenants

shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

I just fought against a double mantra mesmer, double rev duo.

There are:

  1. No animations to dodge
  2. 17 different targets on my screen
  3. They can be at 3 points simultaneously
  4. If I stop dodging I get one-shot
  5. I'm perma revealed and all of their attacks are unblockable
  6. Stability gets instantly stripped and if you don't die you can't cast any skills because of the cc chains and constant interrupts
  7. You can't run away from them
  8. No-port spots are useless

Mantras should not exist and both builds/classes both need huge damage nerfs and reworks. Matches like these are actually unplayable. There are no ways to fight against builds/comps like these and they do not require any skill to play. Unlike sic em longbow soulbeasts, there are no tells for the damage and you can't defend yourself with line of sight and terrain.

QQ T-T L2P

<134567

Comments

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    snip

    Just LoS mesmer, the clones won't passively cc you or hit for 8k

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    how about only one class per team instead of further nerfs.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    snip

    You were actually playing oneshot soulbeast, I was in that match as well.

    (Obviously I wasn't, /s)

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @praqtos.9035

    The mirage doesn't need any of those defenses because the burst will hit 100% of the time if they aren't a potato and can time instant cast ccs. They don't even need the mantras to set up the burst. Blink + Diversion with Confounding Suggestions is effectively an instant 1200 range stun that can be used WHILST simultaneously casting gs2.
    I'm not going to argue this point any further.

    Running berserk build with no safe-nets and just 2 evades = dont need any defense?
    Almost 7 years mesmer do the same over and over and people still cant learn... If they rework completely GS and give mesmer a new(viable) way to play that would be great tho.
    Why you made a thread and crying about POWER mesmer if you dont want to argue ?:DDDDDDDDDDDDD

    lol this is my second time playing power mirage and I went 26-0 with 40% of the team's damage cause the bursts are so easy to land

    in a 12 min 30 second match that means I was getting roughly one kill every 27 seconds

    "dont need any defense" 4Head OmegaLUL

    Unranked arena 4head OmegaLUL

    Where do you think I fought the mantra mesmers? Ranked. They farmed my pugs there so just cause you can't time your bursts doesn't mean other people can't.

    It's actually ez mode lmao

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I thought Mes was trash tier according to these forums?

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    Mantras are only maybe ok as a concept if they are implemented such that they can't affect the opponent. Cleanse, heal, self might gen etc are fine. CC and such are not fine.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    snip

    You were actually playing oneshot soulbeast, I was in that match as well.

    Screenshot says otherwise.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Screenshot says otherwise.

    Have you read my other comments in this thread?

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @Xstein.2187
    @praqtos.9035

    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/special-pleading

    There are literally duo ques of berserker mantra mesmers climbing in high plat. Asides from steal, the entire mantra burst is the EASIEST combo to land in the entire game.

  • ZeteCommander.4937ZeteCommander.4937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    It's easy to dodge,Just dodge

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    There are literally duo ques of berserker mantra mesmers climbing in high plat. Asides from steal, the entire mantra burst is the EASIEST combo to land in the entire game.

    Okay, this time I'll talk seriously.

    In NA, there really are lots of mesmer players in all ranks, including plat. I guess people like Shorts really made an impact.

    In EU though, there are too less mesmers, let alone power, playing properly. Most of them either left the game, changed mains or went pve.

    It's understandable how it's hard to reach a conclusion, but it's obvious that any kind of power mesmer is underwhelming to play. In case of NA, they win any tournament anyway.

    Source: Youtube, NA and EU leaderboards, stats from FFA arenas (what do people play and what badge they have), mATs and ToL.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    I think it is time to nerf heralds. Give them the DE treatment.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Xstein.2187
    @praqtos.9035

    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/special-pleading

    There are literally duo ques of berserker mantra mesmers climbing in high plat. Asides from steal, the entire mantra burst is the EASIEST combo to land in the entire game.

    This is not special pleading because what you posted would not have been adequate evidence for any class.
    It's not special pleading unless you are making yourself or someone else exempt from the criteria. Both of us have not done this.
    https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/163/Special-Pleading

    If you are going to try to call someone out, at least inform yourself of what you are talking about.

    Here is a video of an ele in platinum before it was buffed.

    Is this evidence that Ele should not have been buffed before and Staff Ele should be nerfed next patch?
    I would say not.

    All I am looking for is good evidence. Your screenshot just doesn't answer a lot of questions. How do we know you aren't lying and just did good that match and cherry picked? How do we know you could have got the same results in a more competitive format (ranked). How do we know you are not an above average player skill wise and could do well with almost any class? How do we know your MMR wasn't trash before you played again, giving you easier games when you started playing? How do we know other people may do better, and not just you, if they switch to mesmer (and not just an arbitrary value that you choose to call "Good Enough")

    All of this can be solved by:
    1. Looking at the ranked leaderboards and seeing what the top ranked preferred classes are and
    2. Looking to see what is preferred in tournaments
    This information is likely easily accessible to the devs and far more valuable than a single unranked screenshot. They have the data, so let them decide.

    The only reason I can think of that people don't agree with using this data is that they are biased and scared that the dev's data isn't going to match up to their desired expectations.

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭

    Mesmers always deserve a nerf as they never get under control. Nerf mantras please. And rev just got out of control, nerf it too.
    Fix the game Devs. C'mon.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    snip

    You were actually playing oneshot soulbeast, I was in that match as well.

    HAHAHAH snap

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Wait, does that mean he relogged to mesmer before match ended but was playing Ranger until then? That would make my day!

    Nah, this thread is probably opened because of "nerf soulbeasts" thread.
    I was just pointing at this. I am EU main even though I play on both :)

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Revs have higher damage than they should because of power creep to various traits. Anets solution will be to nerf rev mechanics.

    Mantra is able to oneshot people very quickly due to busted mechanics with how the traits and overall class design works. Anets solution will be to nerf power mes damage.

    None of us want this to be true, but we all know it likely is.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    Mantra is able to oneshot people very quickly due to busted mechanics with how the traits and overall class design works. Anets solution will be to nerf power mes damage.
    None of us want this to be true, but we all know it likely is.

    Busted mechanics? Is this clone complaint again?
    Highly doubt power mesmer will get another round of nerfs as they attempted to nerf condi and gave power tons of nerfs.
    Damage nerf on the class with lowest sustained damage among every class? Wont happen

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've never liked the idea of mantras, at least the ones that do damage. Inherently uncompetitive. The interrupt is fine but not with damage from Power Block.

    The Top Row traits on Chronomancer provides ridiculous damage and need serious nerfs.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    I've never liked the idea of mantras, at least the ones that do damage. Inherently uncompetitive. The interrupt is fine but not with damage from Power Block.

    The Top Row traits on Chronomancer provides ridiculous damage and need serious nerfs.

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    I've never liked the idea of mantras, at least the ones that do damage. Inherently uncompetitive. The interrupt is fine but not with damage from Power Block.

    The Top Row traits on Chronomancer provides ridiculous damage and need serious nerfs.

    Power Block cannot critical anymore.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Hylo.1968Hylo.1968 Member ✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    I've never liked the idea of mantras, at least the ones that do damage. Inherently uncompetitive. The interrupt is fine but not with damage from Power Block.

    The Top Row traits on Chronomancer provides ridiculous damage and need serious nerfs.

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    ^ this

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    I've never liked the idea of mantras, at least the ones that do damage. Inherently uncompetitive. The interrupt is fine but not with damage from Power Block.

    The Top Row traits on Chronomancer provides ridiculous damage and need serious nerfs.

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    In fact power block is bugged now, its cant crit/apply weakness on 3s cd as if its PVE. If you want to nerf LT, then nerf to hell LROD ele as well as it does twice as much damage.
    You are pretty much complain about the only good traits left for mesmer :) (cant say CI is not annoying to get immobed but its also in no damage traitline as well)
    They could rework GS since its in terrible state and has only 1 use -> combo shatter since 2012

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    I've never liked the idea of mantras, at least the ones that do damage. Inherently uncompetitive. The interrupt is fine but not with damage from Power Block.

    The Top Row traits on Chronomancer provides ridiculous damage and need serious nerfs.

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    In fact power block is bugged now, its cant crit/apply weakness on 3s cd as if its PVE. If you want to nerf LT, then nerf to hell LROD ele as well as it does twice as much damage.

    Didn't know about this, i only know that an interrupt Mesmer only using Powerblock and Mantra of Distrction and not Ci or Lost Time is only annoying to fight against when it is played very well and even than you win the fights vs it with most other classes pretty easy. And yes lighting rod Eles are way lamer (in particular since shock aura is not even active interrupt gameplay when applied passive or stay long enough to interrupt a second time) but a fresh air Ele also beats Mantra of Pain in its retardedness by far. The only reason Ele is not main target for nerf cries atm is, that Ele luckily doesn't have a role in conquest. Ele is already one of the easiest classes to play and not weak at all. That counts for the brainless facetank builds, the nearly perma dodge condi build and the dmg builds lighting rod and fresh air.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Power Block is a very balanced trait, the dmg is not high enough to be even near as broken. The only traits need a nerf because they are op in their effects and make Mantra of Distraction rewarding even when only random spammed without interrupting or only interrupting autoattacks are CI and Lost Time. Mantra of Distraction with Powerblock is balanced and only rewards mindful interrupts on more than only autoattacks enough to be worth taking.

    Have you ever try to rupt in a cele meta ?
    I mean a 0.25 sec decaled rupt failed and you are facing opponent under stab/aegis/cele.
    And even when you rupt someone with CI and Lost time what he does is 1 clic dispell and your calculated rupt is nullyfy with random dispell rotation. (Not even count the attacks that can't be rupt because 3 effects in 1.)
    And stop saying things like playing well in a lockbuil when the risk.investment in trait can be countered by simple condiclear. Show me where are the "skilled" players to argue please.

    What? Did you even understand what i said? I said Powerblock is balanced in terms of the reward it gives. It is not too high dmg it is only on interrupts and it is only rewarding enough when you are able to interrupt big skills and not only random interrupting autoattacks. That is why i said an interrupt build only using Powerblock is balanced, has a very high skill ceiling and is in disadvantage vs most other builds in this game even when played very well.

    Lost Time and CI are broken and have a very low skill ceiling and skill floor, they both give way too much reward (too much dmg + slow from Lost Time and an op immob. +might stacking without ICD on CI), so you either doesn't even need to interrupt something to proc it (Lost Time) or the reward is so strong that you don't need to care for what you interrupt, autoattacks are more then enough (CI). They make mesmer way easier and for that noobfriendlier to play. Chaosline in addition also applies forgiving sustain, which is more or less passive because it doesn't effect your active gameplay. These are the big differences to Powerblock. Simple facts.

    That there are other classes with builds even lamer and easier to play than a CI chaosline Powermes is a different story. Both should not exist in terms of getting a game that can separate good from bad players, in terms of getting a way less braindead meta. Balance isn't rly that hard: The easier a build is to play the less rewarding it should be even when played well and the more forgiving facetank ability a build has the less dmg it should make. In both points Anet always failed the balance. All the bruiser have way too much sustain for the dmg they do. And easy builds are often also the strongest (otherwise tell me the logic in Lost Time being able to crit, makes in general way more dmg than powerblock, apllies slow what is way more annoying than weakness, has better synergy with the interrupt nature because it makes interrupting easier but doesn't even need an interrupt to proc? Why is a trait with a higher reward easier to play?).
    In the current meta we have builds are good in everything. Just taking Holo as example it has good facetank ability (less than a war but still too much for the dmg it can do), high resustain ability even can be covered by stabi and stealth, high amount of aoe cc, perma mini burst (a lot even aoe) and good mobility. Holo could be a skillful class if it would be less broken and would have higher cd on keyskills. Atm a bad Holo doesn't even get punished for braindead skill spam because the cds are so low. Anet needs to reduce power creep all over the board and the sustain creep in the same moment. That is why i get cancer when i read dmg increased on skill x in the patch nodes. There is not a single skill in this game need a dmg increase atm. Every unused skill might get viable already by nerfing everything broken into the ground where it belongs.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Please don't nerf power mesmer. It is more or less fine as it is, minor changes for more fun to play and play against would be nice (CI, damage mantra...). It can be countered easily - with sage's weaver, I have no issues with them. More so with revenants, but I think, everybody thinks they need minor nerfs - better than buffing condi to counter them, probably.

    Apart from that, wow, I agree with mostly everything @bravan.3876 says.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    Please don't nerf power mesmer. It is more or less fine as it is, minor changes for more fun to play and play against would be nice (CI, damage mantra...). It can be countered easily - with sage's weaver, I have no issues with them. More so with revenants, but I think, everybody thinks they need minor nerfs - better than buffing condi to counter them, probably.

    Apart from that, wow, I agree with mostly everything @bravan.3876 says.

    Weavers are one of the classes that extremely unfun to fight against: lots of evades,sustain,stability (burns/lrod) despite it not being meta level. (...)

    I should've said "relevant skill activation" and "not randomly spammable". :smile: I would agree weaver should get changes, but right now, I am just happy it doesn't get nerfed too harshly every patch anymore.

    But let's not focus too much on weaver in this thread. I'd be happy to discuss those problems in another thread though!

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    Please don't nerf power mesmer. It is more or less fine as it is, minor changes for more fun to play and play against would be nice (CI, damage mantra...). It can be countered easily - with sage's weaver, I have no issues with them. More so with revenants, but I think, everybody thinks they need minor nerfs - better than buffing condi to counter them, probably.

    Apart from that, wow, I agree with mostly everything @bravan.3876 says.

    Weavers are one of the classes that extremely unfun to fight against: lots of evades,sustain,stability (burns/lrod) despite it not being meta level. (...)

    I should've said "relevant skill activation" and "not randomly spammable". :smile: I would agree weaver should get changes, but right now, I am just happy it doesn't get nerfed too harshly every patch anymore.

    But let's not focus too much on weaver in this thread. I'd be happy to discuss those problems in another thread though!

    Nerfs/changes/rework on CI/LT are welcomed when they compensate its loss. Enough of useless/dead traits
    Greatsword on the mesmer need a rework, not just buff/nerfs. So its shifted from burst shatter and create a new way to play weapon/class.

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