[Rework suggestion] Minions and Death Magic

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

Death magic trait rework.

Adept Minor TraitYou and your minions gain 180 bonus toughness while you (or they) have protection.

Adept Major Trait LineMajor Trait 1Increase all healing your minions take by 50% and you gain 20 bonus toughness for each minion you control.Major Trait 2Every 3 sec your next attack will inflict 1 stack of poison for 4 sec.Major Trait 3Every stack of might on you now will grant 5 bonus toughness. Gain 3 stacks of might for 10 sec whenever you gain protection.

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Master Minor TraitGenerate 33% more life force while you have protection. Gain protection for 2 sec when one of your minions die.

Master Major Trait LineMajor Trait 4Using a minion ability will transfer 1 condition from you to your minion and grant that minion 3 sec of protection. Increase maximum health of your minions by 20%.Major Trait 5Deal 1% more damage to enemies for every stack of poison on them.Major Trait 6Increase your power by 7% of your toughness. Triple this bonus while in shroud.

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Grandmaster Minor TraitYou and your minions gain protection for 3 sec whenever you enter or exit shroud.

Grandmaster Major Trait LineMajor Trait 7Increase damage done by your minions by 25%, reduce damage taken by your minions by 10% and your minions will create Lesser Poison Cloud when they die.Major Trait 8Your Shroud 1 get 33% chance to inflict 1 stack of poison for 4 sec. Increase duration of poison you inflict by 33%.Major Trait 9When you or your minion inflict a condition on an enemy or when you gain a boon, then you gain a stack of unique boon. Each stack lasts for 10 sec and this boon stacks up to 30 times. Each stack gives 5 bonus toughness, 5 bonus power, 5 bonus condition damage and reduce all condition damage taken by 1%.

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Minion rework.

Summon Blood FiendSummon a minion which will leach health from your target and heal you. When you get down, then your blood fiend will attempt to revive you.

• Casting time: 2 sec
• Cooldown: 40 sec
• Health: 20'000 (scale with you vitality)
• Leach damage: 150 (scale with your power)
• Leach healing: 450 (scale with your healing power)
• Attack speed: 1 attack every 3 sec
• Attack range: 900

Blood Fiend's Active AbilityCause your Blood Fiend to go berserk increasing its attack speed by 200% and cause it to become immune to all damage for 5 sec. When this ability ends, then your blood fiend will die.

• Casting time: instant

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Summon Bone MinionsSummon 1 (+1 for each of these traits: Major trait 1, Major trait 4, Major trait 7) bone fiend to follow you and attack you target at melee range.

• Casting time: 2 sec
• Cooldown: 40 sec
• Health: 14'000 (scale with your vitality)
• Damage: 90 (scale with your power)
• Attack speed: 1 attack every 1 sec

Bone Minion's Active AbilityCause one of your bone minions to rush your target with suicidal attack and explode when it collides with your target.

• Casting time: instant
• Cooldown: 4 sec
• Range: 900
• Damage: 800 (scale with power)
• Blast combo finisher

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Summon Bone FiendSummon a minion which will follow you and attack your target with ranged attacks. Its attacks have 33% chance to cripple on hit.

• Casting time: 2 sec
• Cooldown: 40 sec
• Health: 12'000 (scale with your vitality)
• Damage: 400 (scale with your power)
• Attack speed: 1 attack every 2 sec
• Attack range: 900
• Cripple: 2 sec

Bone Fiend's Active AbilityCause your Bone Fiend to immobilize and bleed your target.

• Casting time: 1/2 sec
• Cooldown: 25 sec
• Range: 900
• Immobilize: 2 sec
• Bleed: 3 stacks for 8 sec

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Summon Shadow FiendSummon a minion which will follow you and attack your target at melee range. It will inflict poison with its attacks.

• Casting time: 2 sec
• Cooldown: 40 sec
• Health: 22'000 (scale with your vitality)
• Damage: 200 (scale with your power)
• Attack speed: 1 attack every 1 sec
• Poison: 1 stack for 3 sec

Shadow Fiend's Active AbilityCause your shadow fiend to instantly teleport to your target and inflict conditions on it.

• Casting time: 3/4 sec
• Cooldown: 30 sec
• Range: 1200
• Chill: 2 sec
• Blindness: 4 sec
• Weakness: 5 sec
• Poison: 2 stacks for 6 sec

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Summon Flesh WurmSummon immobile minion to attack your target at range and inflict poison with its attacks.

• Casting time: 2 sec
• Cooldown: 40 sec
• Health: 10'000 (scale with your vitality)
• Damage: 500 (scale with your power)
• Attack speed: 1 attack ever 2 sec
• Attack range: 1500
• Poison: 1 stack for 4 sec

Flesh Wurm's Active AbilityInstantly switch places with your wurm. Your wurm will inflict poison and perform blast combo finisher in its new location.

• Casting time: instant
• Cooldown: 40 sec
• Range: 1500
• Poison: 5 stacks for 5 sec
• Stunbreak yourself and your wurm

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Summon Flesh GolemSummon a minion to follow you and attack your target at melee range.

• Casting time: 2 sec
• Cooldown: 40 sec
• Health: 30'000 (scale with your vitality)
• Toughness: 1000
• Damage: 600 (scale with your power)
• Attack speed: 1 attack every 2 sec

Flesh Golem's Active AbilityStunbreak your golem and cause your golem to leap at your target and knock down all enemies when it lands.

• Casting time: 3/4 sec
• Cooldown: 60 sec
• Range: 900
• Radius: 240
• Damage: 900 (scale with your power)
• Knockdown: 2 sec
• Leap combo finisher

[derd.6413]

rework everything to fix barely anything

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@derd.6413 said:rework everything fix barely anything

Comment something - say nothing.

Here are things this rework would fix:1) No useless traits like Putrid Defense;2) Death magic becomes actually viable traitline for PVP for both power and condition builds;3) Makes poison-focused necromancer actually possible and viable;4) Death magic traitline should be tanky, but it isn't. With this rework it would be tanky;5) Now traits actually synergies with other traits from other traitlines;6) Now minions would at least be useful in PVP instead of instantly dying in AOE burst and doing nothing;7) Golem's charge is nearly impossible to aim and it misses more often than hits - directly leaping on the target would fix that issue;8) Old traits worked around mostly for condition builds (Corrupter's Fervor for example), but only Flesh Wurm can inflict damaging conditions. With this reword there would at least be several minions who would be able to inflict damaging conditions;Etc.

[derd.6413]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@"derd.6413" said:rework everything fix barely anything

Comment something - say nothing.

Here are things this rework would fix:1) No useless traits like Putrid Defense;2) Death magic becomes actually viable traitline for PVP for both power and condition builds;3) Makes poison-focused necromancer actually possible and viable;4) Death magic traitline should be tanky, but it isn't. With this rework it would be tanky;5) Now traits actually synergies with other traits from other traitlines;6) Now minions would at least be useful in PVP instead of instantly dying in AOE burst and doing nothing;7) Golem's charge is nearly impossible to aim and it misses more often than hits - directly leaping on the target would fix that issue;8) Old traits worked around mostly for condition builds (Corrupter's Fervor for example), but only Flesh Wurm can inflict damaging conditions. With this reword there would at least be several minions who would be able to inflict damaging conditions;Etc.

no it wouldn't, the only thing you've "solved" is some minion skills being impossible to aim and that's it

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:rework everything fix barely anything

Comment something - say nothing.

Here are things this rework would fix:1) No useless traits like Putrid Defense;2) Death magic becomes actually viable traitline for PVP for both power and condition builds;3) Makes poison-focused necromancer actually possible and viable;4) Death magic traitline should be tanky, but it isn't. With this rework it would be tanky;5) Now traits actually synergies with other traits from other traitlines;6) Now minions would at least be useful in PVP instead of instantly dying in AOE burst and doing nothing;7) Golem's charge is nearly impossible to aim and it misses more often than hits - directly leaping on the target would fix that issue;8) Old traits worked around mostly for condition builds (Corrupter's Fervor for example), but only Flesh Wurm can inflict damaging conditions. With this reword there would at least be several minions who would be able to inflict damaging conditions;Etc.

no it wouldn't, the only thing you've "solved" is some minion skills being impossible to aim and that's it

So, you think Putrid Defense is more useful than any trait i suggested?

[derd.6413]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:rework everything fix barely anything

Comment something - say nothing.

Here are things this rework would fix:1) No useless traits like Putrid Defense;2) Death magic becomes actually viable traitline for PVP for both power and condition builds;3) Makes poison-focused necromancer actually possible and viable;4) Death magic traitline should be tanky, but it isn't. With this rework it would be tanky;5) Now traits actually synergies with other traits from other traitlines;6) Now minions would at least be useful in PVP instead of instantly dying in AOE burst and doing nothing;7) Golem's charge is nearly impossible to aim and it misses more often than hits - directly leaping on the target would fix that issue;8) Old traits worked around mostly for condition builds (Corrupter's Fervor for example), but only Flesh Wurm can inflict damaging conditions. With this reword there would at least be several minions who would be able to inflict damaging conditions;Etc.

no it wouldn't, the only thing you've "solved" is some minion skills being impossible to aim and that's it

So, you think Putrid Defense is more useful than any trait i suggested?

that's a really low bar you've put for yourself there and even then all you've done is replace the defense with offense and moved it to a different spot (and it stacks now).

impressed i'm not

and before you say it: no, better doesn't mean good

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:rework everything fix barely anything

Comment something - say nothing.

Here are things this rework would fix:1) No useless traits like Putrid Defense;2) Death magic becomes actually viable traitline for PVP for both power and condition builds;3) Makes poison-focused necromancer actually possible and viable;4) Death magic traitline should be tanky, but it isn't. With this rework it would be tanky;5) Now traits actually synergies with other traits from other traitlines;6) Now minions would at least be useful in PVP instead of instantly dying in AOE burst and doing nothing;7) Golem's charge is nearly impossible to aim and it misses more often than hits - directly leaping on the target would fix that issue;8) Old traits worked around mostly for condition builds (Corrupter's Fervor for example), but only Flesh Wurm can inflict damaging conditions. With this reword there would at least be several minions who would be able to inflict damaging conditions;Etc.

no it wouldn't, the only thing you've "solved" is some minion skills being impossible to aim and that's it

So, you think Putrid Defense is more useful than any trait i suggested?

that's a really low bar you've put for yourself there and even then all you've done is replace the defense with offense and moved it to a different spot (and it stacks now).

impressed i'm not

Reworking useless traits into useful one is a low bar for a rework? Fine by me.

[derd.6413]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:rework everything fix barely anything

Comment something - say nothing.

Here are things this rework would fix:1) No useless traits like Putrid Defense;2) Death magic becomes actually viable traitline for PVP for both power and condition builds;3) Makes poison-focused necromancer actually possible and viable;4) Death magic traitline should be tanky, but it isn't. With this rework it would be tanky;5) Now traits actually synergies with other traits from other traitlines;6) Now minions would at least be useful in PVP instead of instantly dying in AOE burst and doing nothing;7) Golem's charge is nearly impossible to aim and it misses more often than hits - directly leaping on the target would fix that issue;8) Old traits worked around mostly for condition builds (Corrupter's Fervor for example), but only Flesh Wurm can inflict damaging conditions. With this reword there would at least be several minions who would be able to inflict damaging conditions;Etc.

no it wouldn't, the only thing you've "solved" is some minion skills being impossible to aim and that's it

So, you think Putrid Defense is more useful than any trait i suggested?

that's a really low bar you've put for yourself there and even then all you've done is replace the defense with offense and moved it to a different spot (and it stacks now).

impressed i'm not

Reworking useless traits into useful one is a low bar for a rework? Fine by me.

yes, better doesn't mean good (or usefull)

let me put it this way: if the current DM traitline is a 2/10 then this'd be a 3/10

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@"derd.6413" said:yes, better doesn't mean good (or usefull)

let me put it this way: if the current DM traitline is a 2/10 then this'd be a 3/10

And yet, you failed to provide a single reason why it isn't good.So, seeing how there are literally no arguments against it, it seems that mine is 10/10.P.S. "buuuh it yz baaaad" is not an argument.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"derd.6413" said:yes, better doesn't mean good (or usefull)

let me put it this way: if the current DM traitline is a 2/10 then this'd be a 3/10

To be fair, the current traitline is 4/10 what he suggest downgrade it to 3/10.

And I'll say it: putrid defense is better than all the toughness that he put in his traits.

The real issue with Death magic is that there is 3 traits that directly relie on minions which reduce a lot the possibilities of the traitline. It make the traitline "overspecialized" and these suggestions just dig deeper into that which, like derd said, mean that nothing nothing change for this traitline.

A true rework would/should make those "minion traits" go into a different direction. The necromancer don't have any reason to be "strengthen" by it's minions but he got all the reason of the world to strengthen them, and ultimately allies, instead.

• Flesh of the master: Increase minion and up to 5 allie's toughness based on the number of minion you control.
• Necromantic corruption: Minion and up to 5 allies around you gain the ability to transfer condition on hit (ICD 10s)
• Death nova: Minion specific trait: summon 1-2 jagged horror when you use a minion active skill. Whenever a minion under your control die he leave a lesser poison cloud.

Minor changes that would be welcome on other traits:

• Beyond the veil: give protection (3s) when leaving shroud to you and up to 5 allies around you (don't give protection to minion).
• Putrid defense: additionnally leave a lesser poison cloud at your feet when your health fall below 50%. (30s ICD)

Reworked traits: (Unnecessary but interesting from my point of view)

• Soul comprehension: passively gain 1% life force every 3 seconds.
• Unholy sanctuary: no longer force you into shroud. health regenerate while in shroud. You cannot be critically hit while in shroud.

Edit:Idea to replace death nova:

• Trait: Undead echo: When an active minion skill is used, it's combo is also performed by the necromancer (no extra animation, just the benefit of the combo).
• Taste of death (blood fiend): added a whirl finisher.
• Haunt (shadow fiend): added a leap finisher.
• Rigor mortis (bone fiend): added a whirl finisher.
• Charge (golem): added a leap finisher.

[Dadnir.5038]

I won't copy your answer to me because realistically if a mod care to read it he will delete it and give you a warning.Anyway:

• 10% damage reduction from poisoned foe is strong. Maybe not that much from the point of view of a 1v1 but in an environment more realistic where you are not alone fighting against the world, it is indeed strong. Having a foe poisoned by someone else isn't that uncommon in most of the gamemodes, the fact that necromancer have little access to a reliable source of poison is arguable (for exemple, you easily forget about signet of spite or even plagueland for core, soul spiral on reaper and serpent siphon on scourge. Not even talking about rune and sigils.).
• Death magic isn't "a traitline for minion". No other profession have to give up (nor any profession should) more than a single trait to improve a single type of utility. To make the traitline "viable" you have to make it work with the whole profession not restrain it to a single kind of utility which are near useless in some gamemode.
• GW2 necromancer is above all a profession in GW2. You having bias about what a necromancer should or shouldn't be about is only an opinion of your own. Professions in GW2 have traitlines that follow paterns and the fact is that the heavy load of minion traits in DM stray away from thoses patern. If minions and/or the general in game gameplay had been adapted to the game, these stray traits would have been seen as OP, unfortunately it's not the case and they just stand as the glaring weakness of the traitline knowing that those traits clash between each other, defeating their own purpose in some case.

NB.: I've given you "simple change" that show that the current traitline don't need much to be a good pick, and yeah I already know that as long as it does not align with what you want to read, anything that's said will be seen as "invalid" from your point of view. Making me just waste my time.