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Hammer QoL changes we need


Ragnarox.9601

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After Staff got quality changes Hammer could use the same procedure, I rarely see any hammer guard in pvp or wvw, it became obsolete.So I am suggesting some quality improvements:

1# Autoatack:1/21/2 1x vulnerability for 2.5 sec3/4 retalation for 1.5 sec sec

2# leap 450 range aoe 3 targets

3# this skill is pretty much useless so proposing something like:Holy hammer drops on target location, creating mighty symbol giving swiftness(protection??) to allies and cripples your enemies.

4# stays the same but if the targets are immune to cc blinds them instead

5# can cast while walking

plus:Swap positions of: "communal defenses" in valor and "Glacial heart" from virtues.

Sucks having Mjolnir and The Juggernaut and I dont even touch it anymore :(

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Hammer is useless everywhere. It needs more damage than you are suggesting (especially in PvE). The third AA chain surely needs lower cast time.

Glacial heart should remain where it is. It is used primarily with FB and axe. If you put it valor, it becomes a dead trait, since no one will use it in PvE. It will also become a bad selection in PvP as well. And communal defense is a dead weight.

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@otto.5684 said:Hammer is useless everywhere. It needs more damage than you are suggesting (especially in PvE). The third AA chain surely needs lower cast time.

Glacial heart should remain where it is. It is used primarily with FB and axe. If you put it valor, it becomes a dead trait, since no one will use it in PvE. It will also become a bad selection in PvP as well. And communal defense is a dead weight.

well I suggested Valor cause all dps builds are built around that cause of meditations.

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@Ragnarox.9601 said:

@otto.5684 said:Hammer is useless everywhere. It needs more damage than you are suggesting (especially in PvE). The third AA chain surely needs lower cast time.

Glacial heart should remain where it is. It is used primarily with FB and axe. If you put it valor, it becomes a dead trait, since no one will use it in PvE. It will also become a bad selection in PvP as well. And communal defense is a dead weight.

well I suggested Valor cause all dps builds are built around that cause of meditations.

Not in PvE. Also, most builds use virtues in PvP anyway, so you do not lose anything with it staying in virtues. This will just hurt FB dps builds everywhere.

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@otto.5684 said:

@otto.5684 said:Hammer is useless everywhere. It needs more damage than you are suggesting (especially in PvE). The third AA chain surely needs lower cast time.

Glacial heart should remain where it is. It is used primarily with FB and axe. If you put it valor, it becomes a dead trait, since no one will use it in PvE. It will also become a bad selection in PvP as well. And communal defense is a dead weight.

well I suggested Valor cause all dps builds are built around that cause of meditations.

Not in PvE. Also, most builds use virtues in PvP anyway, so you do not lose anything with it staying in virtues. This will just hurt FB dps builds everywhere.

only plain guardian, no other build uses outdated virtues line. Look at meta builds.

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@Ragnarox.9601 said:

@otto.5684 said:Hammer is useless everywhere. It needs more damage than you are suggesting (especially in PvE). The third AA chain surely needs lower cast time.

Glacial heart should remain where it is. It is used primarily with FB and axe. If you put it valor, it becomes a dead trait, since no one will use it in PvE. It will also become a bad selection in PvP as well. And communal defense is a dead weight.

well I suggested Valor cause all dps builds are built around that cause of meditations.

Not in PvE. Also, most builds use virtues in PvP anyway, so you do not lose anything with it staying in virtues. This will just hurt FB dps builds everywhere.

only plain guardian, no other build uses outdated virtues line. Look at meta builds.

PvE dps FB uses virtues/radiance/FB and uses glacial hammer. DH obviously does not. But no one uses hammer in PvE regardless.

FB condi dps variants in PvP also use virtues. There are no other PvP meta builds lol.

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I think Hammer 3 should be a cone-shaped attack with 750 range and 60 degree angle. Or maybe just shoot more than 1 chain in a cone-shaped pattern as 1200 range and have the angle at 30 degrees or so. The immobilize could be a bit longer too.I basically like what the skill does, it just needs a lot more reliability.

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@Ragnarox.9601 said:

@otto.5684 said:Hammer is useless everywhere. It needs more damage than you are suggesting (especially in PvE). The third AA chain surely needs lower cast time.

Glacial heart should remain where it is. It is used primarily with FB and axe. If you put it valor, it becomes a dead trait, since no one will use it in PvE. It will also become a bad selection in PvP as well. And communal defense is a dead weight.

well I suggested Valor cause all dps builds are built around that cause of meditations.

Not in PvE. Also, most builds use virtues in PvP anyway, so you do not lose anything with it staying in virtues. This will just hurt FB dps builds everywhere.

only plain guardian, no other build uses outdated virtues line. Look at meta builds.

Make some traits become core elite spec xd

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Hammer has always been prevented from getting love because there is simply too much going on Auto; Anet can't do much with any of the other skills without breaking the thing.

Anet, your experiment has failed. Decouple the symbol from 1 and give hammer the bandwidth it needs to improve.

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@Obtena.7952 said:Hammer has always been prevented from getting love because there is simply too much going on Auto; Anet can't do much with any of the other skills without breaking the thing.

Anet, your experiment has failed. Decouple the symbol from 1 and give hammer the bandwidth it needs to improve.

Yea it only works at static targets, every other symbol is instant so at least it does 1 or 2 ticks of dmg before ppl dodge it out.I am for symbol on 3# skill which cripple cause this 3# skill is too slow and does nothing for its cd.But...we might get some changes 2022 maybe.

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@Ragnarox.9601 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Hammer has always been prevented from getting love because there is simply too much going on Auto; Anet can't do much with any of the other skills without breaking the thing.

Anet, your experiment has failed. Decouple the symbol from 1 and give hammer the bandwidth it needs to improve.

Yea it only works at static targets, every other symbol is instant so at least it does 1 or 2 ticks of dmg before ppl dodge it out.I am for symbol on 3# skill which cripple cause this 3# skill is too slow and does nothing for its cd.But...we might get some changes 2022 maybe.

Well Anet made changes to hammer in the last 6 month and made it worse in every game mode.

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They could also put the symbol on 5# which has long been talked about as having rather limited use except for it movement/ access denial like the staff's line of warding. That way it could still function as a access denial with the plus of giving Protection and for those you trap in it or those that are able to get in via stability etc it could do some damage(and maybe a cripple but that might be to much).

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Hammer just promote a gameplay that's not popular, is it really necessary to change it in such a way that it end up being another option to an already popular gameplay?Hammer just need hammer #3 and #4 to be more responsive (1 second cast time is way to long especially since one is a hard CC and the other is a soft CC and soft CCs have lost a lot of impact with the condi cleanse powercreep) and #5 to additionally heal allies or remove conditions every seconds. Everything else is fine, even the auto attack chain attack speed.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:Hammer just promote a gameplay that's not popular, is it really necessary to change it in such a way that it end up being another option to an already popular gameplay?Hammer just need hammer #3 and #4 to be more responsive (1 second cast time is way to long especially since one is a hard CC and the other is a soft CC and soft CCs have lost a lot of impact with the condi cleanse powercreep) and #5 to additionally heal allies or remove conditions every seconds. Everything else is fine, even the auto attack chain attack speed.

I think it is necessary because the gameplay it offers is the worst of anything in this game. To be fair, most people camp 1 because they can but I think this is the only case I can think of where camping 1 is THE optimal approach to playing. That's pretty sad. Even if you wanted to play it well, you quickly realize your best effort yields a result similar to the 1 camping lazy guy.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Hammer just promote a gameplay that's not popular, is it really necessary to change it in such a way that it end up being another option to an already popular gameplay?Hammer just need hammer #3 and #4 to be more responsive (1 second cast time is way to long especially since one is a hard CC and the other is a soft CC and soft CCs have lost a lot of impact with the condi cleanse powercreep) and #5 to additionally heal allies or remove conditions every seconds. Everything else is fine, even the auto attack chain attack speed.

I think it is necessary because the gameplay it offers is the worst of anything in this game. To be fair, most people camp 1 because they can but I think this is the only case I can think of where camping 1 is THE optimal approach to playing. That's pretty sad. Even if you wanted to play it well, you quickly realize your best effort yields a result similar to the 1 camping lazy guy.

The weapon is meant to control your opponent, this is the unpopular gameplay. It's not the fact that using the auto attack is the way to deal damage. The guardian already have weapons meant to deal damage and be fast pace, the hammer fill it's niche of a slow paced weapon that "trap" your opponent where you want to damage him. Yes it sucks against things that ignore the hammer trick but that's all.

GW2 in most of the case is not about spamming your skills. AA in GW2 isn't something that you necessarily want to avoid using. The hammer auto attack and it's ability to keep a "permanent" symbol is, potentially:

  • perma prot
  • perma damage source
  • perma vuln
  • perma area heal
  • perma light field (source of light aura, retaliation and condi cleanse)
  • perma 10% damage increase for the guardian

In a single build. This auto attack is good, very useful and don't need "buff". There is damage, support, survivability and debuff all in one. Yes, it's not what people look for in the highly "optimized" meta but that's unmistakenly good. In a gamemode like conquest it force your foe to leave the area, in PvE it allow you to simply facetank most of the content and in WvW you got the tools to make a few foes lag behind and be killed.

You want what? To nerf it in order to fit the lost procburst hammer build that the guardian use to have? I often see you using the excuse of thematic. The is barely any other weapon on the guardian kit that's more thematic that this one.

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I think we can still get a weapon that controls people that gives you a little more engagement than camping 1 because frankly, hammer has lots of bandwidth, yet most of the great stuff is packed into #1. Yes the Auto is good ... it's TOO good. That's the problem with the weapon. I also think the theme of the weapon can be maintained doing it. There isn't a reason to pretend we would have to sacrifice theme and good weapon skills to get a more engaging weapon ... there is LOTS of examples where Anet delivers all of that everywhere.

But hey, if people just want to camp 1 all the time AND be at the top of their game, hammer is the perfect weapon for them. The truth is that those of us that want more than that ... we have lots of choice. If hammer is the weapon for the optimal noob and intended to be so ... so be it. I think it's a wasted opportunity and based on the attempts Anet has made to change hammer and it's Glacial trait and the lack of success there ... it's time to rethink this weapon a little deeper.

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I'm actually quite surprised that there's not a high sustained hammer DPS class (inb4 next ranger elite). Aside from Rev and War in WvW, hammers are borderline useless outside niche uses. I'd like to see hammer go full on slow sustained/high dps with huge risk of messing up the rotation to warrant it's high damage.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:Hammer just promote a gameplay that's not popular, is it really necessary to change it in such a way that it end up being another option to an already popular gameplay?Hammer just need hammer #3 and #4 to be more responsive (1 second cast time is way to long especially since one is a hard CC and the other is a soft CC and soft CCs have lost a lot of impact with the condi cleanse powercreep) and #5 to additionally heal allies or remove conditions every seconds. Everything else is fine, even the auto attack chain attack speed.

I think it is necessary because the gameplay it offers is the worst of anything in this game. To be fair, most people camp 1 because they can but I think this is the only case I can think of where camping 1 is THE optimal approach to playing. That's pretty sad. Even if you wanted to play it well, you quickly realize your best effort yields a result similar to the 1 camping lazy guy.

The weapon is meant to control your opponent, this is the unpopular gameplay. It's not the fact that using the auto attack is the way to deal damage. The guardian already have weapons meant to deal damage and be fast pace, the hammer fill it's niche of a slow paced weapon that "trap" your opponent where you want to damage him. Yes it sucks against things that ignore the hammer trick but that's all.

GW2 in most of the case is not about spamming your skills. AA in GW2 isn't something that you necessarily want to avoid using. The hammer auto attack and it's ability to keep a "permanent" symbol is, potentially:
  • perma prot
  • perma damage source
  • perma vuln
  • perma area heal
  • perma light field (source of light aura, retaliation and condi cleanse)
  • perma 10% damage increase for the guardian

In a single build. This auto attack is good, very useful and don't need "buff". There is damage, support, survivability and debuff all in one. Yes, it's not what people look for in the highly "optimized" meta but that's unmistakenly good. In a gamemode like conquest it force your foe to leave the area, in PvE it allow you to simply facetank most of the content and in WvW you got the tools to make a few foes lag behind and be killed.

You want what? To nerf it in order to fit the lost procburst hammer build that the guardian use to have? I often see you using the excuse of thematic. The is barely any other weapon on the guardian kit that's more thematic that this one.

I always see post like these and laugh. Control weapon you say? Axe does is significantly better control, and does substantially better damage. How about it’s damage? It is probably the lowest damage weapon, only ahead of LB.

Also, the symbol bonuses you mentioned apply to all weapons. They are not hammer exclusive. The reliability of symbol in PvP is non-existent and no one uses or needs hammer in PvE for protection uptime. There are tons of other builds in PvE that can provide protection uptime, much better than a tiny symbol.

It is a useless weapon in every game mode and in every context.

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The only good skill on hammer is 2

AA is too slow and low damage, making it useless in both pvp and pve. Good luck landing enough hits to even get the symbol down since the weapon is slow as shit on a class with poor mobility and bad access to movement reduction conditions.

2 rocks

3 is a slow projectile that only travels along the ground? Why? This shouldn't be reflectable.

4 is completely useless. Too slow to hit in melee range and launches an enemy away on a weapon set with no way to follow it up? Bad mobility and launches don't mix. This skill needs removed and replaced with something useful, like a 2s block.

5 is again, too slow. It is useless in pve since bosses tend to be static and even if they move it deals minimal breakbar damage. It is useless in pvp because the weapon set has awful mobility, the only way you land this is with judge's intervention. For a skill with such limited use its absurd to have a 30s cd. This should be ditched completely and replaced with a close range pull, 450 range pbaoe. Fits the weapon set and much more reliable.

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@RUNICBLACK.7630 said:They could also put the symbol on 5# which has long been talked about as having rather limited use except for it movement/ access denial like the staff's line of warding. That way it could still function as a access denial with the plus of giving Protection and for those you trap in it or those that are able to get in via stability etc it could do some damage(and maybe a cripple but that might be to much).

^^ This is a cool idea

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@"Dadnir.5038" said:The weapon is meant to control your opponent, this is the unpopular gameplay. It's not the fact that using the auto attack is the way to deal damage. The guardian already have weapons meant to deal damage and be fast pace, the hammer fill it's niche of a slow paced weapon that "trap" your opponent where you want to damage him. Yes it sucks against things that ignore the hammer trick but that's all.

GW2 in most of the case is not about spamming your skills. AA in GW2 isn't something that you necessarily want to avoid using. The hammer auto attack and it's ability to keep a "permanent" symbol is, potentially:

  • perma prot
  • perma damage source
  • perma vuln
  • perma area heal
  • perma light field (source of light aura, retaliation and condi cleanse)
  • perma 10% damage increase for the guardian

In a single build. This auto attack is good, very useful and don't need "buff". There is damage, support, survivability and debuff all in one. Yes, it's not what people look for in the highly "optimized" meta but that's unmistakenly good. In a gamemode like conquest it force your foe to leave the area, in PvE it allow you to simply facetank most of the content and in WvW you got the tools to make a few foes lag behind and be killed.

You want what? To nerf it in order to fit the lost procburst hammer build that the guardian use to have? I often see you using the excuse of thematic. The is barely any other weapon on the guardian kit that's more thematic that this one.

So, I don't normally post on the forums but there's a lot of stuff to unpack here.

1.) The weapon being good at lockdown and a slower paced weapon/control isn't bad, in fact it's what brings people into the weapon in the first place. You're 100% correct there. What is off is that the focus on the hammer's auto attack and the symbol upkeep. The permanents only truly come into play during open world PvE content, where the trait lines become less in focus, and it's more about just not being stupid. BUT, in any sense of Fractal/Raid/WvW/SPvP. The hammer falls of heavily because these "permanents" don't exist. No one will truly grab Writ of Persistence for the hammer, they'll grab it for the other weapons who's symbols are more controllable. If they cannot control it, i.E. The autos don't go out then the symbol, for hammer, is completely useless (this is alas, PvP oriented only). For PvE, in high level content, the damage the hammer puts out isn't quick enough and those "Permas" fall off. You'll never drop radiant if you're looking at high level power damage play, and you'll focus on Zeal to keep the vuln/damage increase.

In all, the weapon is great on paper if it is 1 target, and you, not moving. It's not going to work in any high level play. You're 100% correct in it having everything tied to the symbol, but that's the issue that needs to be addressed. The symbol needs to be moved to a key press, the attack sped up, and not have a weapon like a hammer tied to having so many single target CC's.

I love hammer, I've literally used it for every game mode I can. I use it for roaming/zerg fights wvw, SPvP, and for open world/raids when I could. But it always fell off, and that's the biggest issue. It needs to be cleaned up, focused on the CC' and allowing for a user to CONTROL the damage you output, when you need it. Not just when you can get 3 auto's off and you've got a symbol to rotate through.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm going to chime in here. I have my own guardian, and I loved hammer at launch. Yet, I have to agree that the AA is too loaded, and yet too slow relative to the rest of the kit. Banish needs to hit more targets. AA hit 3 needs to have its cast time reduced. Ring of Warding needs to allow you to move during the cast, and potentially have some damage attached to it, either while crossing it or while trapped within it. I think that would be enough to make it more used by the player base.

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