Mordrem and corrupted Sylvari after Mordremoths death — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Mordrem and corrupted Sylvari after Mordremoths death

Crystal Black.8190Crystal Black.8190 Member ✭✭✭

Is there anywhere a hint what happened to the mordrem and corrupted sylvari afterwards like there is for the awakened or the risen in Orr? Did the sylvari teach the mordrem about ventari? I imagine the sylvari who fell under mordremoths will feel a lot of guilt and shame. Does the pale tree or anyone else care for them? Maybe some rejoined the pact. What about the nightmare court after faolains death? So many unanswered questions!

I would really like to see a map that brings us back to maguma and deals with the aftermath. It could even bring back malyck!

Comments

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crystal Black.8190 said:
    Is there anywhere a hint what happened to the mordrem and corrupted sylvari afterwards like there is for the awakened or the risen in Orr? Did the sylvari teach the mordrem about ventari? I imagine the sylvari who fell under mordremoths will feel a lot of guilt and shame. Does the pale tree or anyone else care for them? Maybe some rejoined the pact. What about the nightmare court after faolains death? So many unanswered questions!

    I would really like to see a map that brings us back to maguma and deals with the aftermath. It could even bring back malyck!

    In the last Festival of the Four winds, you could find a sylvari who climbed one of the stone pillars. He had fully transformed into a mordrem, and fully revert back physically.

    The Sylvari who turned easily could have returned to various society or groups, but of course some may have stayed with the Mordrem. The jungle dragon had plenty of mindless minions around after all, to count for being threatening to anybody in the jungle.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019

    First, one should distinguish between mordrem and Mordrem Guard. The former are mindless minions created by Mordremoth of various shapes and sizes; after Mordremoth's death they most likely became akin to the risen seen in Siren's Landing (redubbed "Unchained") in that their will is no longer enslaved, but they're also nigh mindless, making them little better than savage animals - trainable if one knows how, but little more than that. If there were mordrem who were lieutenants or overall had more intelligent by themselves, they may retain that intelligence just as the "Unchained Kingpins" (formerly Risen Knights) do, making them conversable and potentially capable of turning away from the old follow-the-dragon mentality (this would be hard though, as all Unchained Kingpins are still fervently faithful to Zhaitan's ways in Siren's Landing). If they weren't killed, I'd imagine things like Blighting Trees, Octovines, and Vinewraths would fall under this category most.

    The above would also go for Branded, no doubt.

    Mordrem Guard are the sylvari who were brainwashed to serve Mordremoth. Unlike mordrem, they're technically uncorrupted, but fell to Mordremoth's bombardment of whispers. During HoT, we met one that had been separated from Mordremoth's commands and was on the verge of returning but when pressured by Canach, fell back into Mordremoth's implanted mentality. Similarly during the last Festival of the Four Winds, as Kalavier mentioned, we met a former Mordrem Guard who was his old self entirely. This would imply that once separated by Mordremoth's whispers - both before and after Mordy's death - they have a chance to return, but may remain faithful to Mordremoth. It would ultimately depend on the individual and the form the "treatment plan" takes.

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  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    My very optimistic and naive hope is that the nightmare court has been slowly reforming behind the scenes and can now serve as kind of a support group for former mordrem guards. They have the longest history with (slight) mordrem influence and might be more understanding than any other group of sylvari.
    So far, unfortunately the Pale Tree herself has not been very helpful in that, even when she was still healthy. The way she did not deal with Wynne and Caithe and their knowledge unfortunately is very telling. If she has not changed her standpoint drastically in the meantime, I'm afraid ex-mordrem still might not be very welcome and supported in the Grove.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    My very optimistic and naive hope is that the nightmare court has been slowly reforming behind the scenes and can now serve as kind of a support group for former mordrem guards. They have the longest history with (slight) mordrem influence and might be more understanding than any other group of sylvari.
    So far, unfortunately the Pale Tree herself has not been very helpful in that, even when she was still healthy. The way she did not deal with Wynne and Caithe and their knowledge unfortunately is very telling. If she has not changed her standpoint drastically in the meantime, I'm afraid ex-mordrem still might not be very welcome and supported in the Grove.

    While it would be a nice thing, sadly the nightmare court are locked into being forever kitten. The pale tree never pushed away her children, and even regretted that the nightmare court couldn't be saved and brought back. Based on every interaction with the avatar I've seen, I don't see why she would push away ex-mordrem guard and deny them support and care.

    The Sylvari as a race dealt with the news of being dragon minions, and being hated for Scarlet's actions by some areas. Why would they turn against their own kind trying to return from that dark place?

    Honestly I would imagine the court being the harshest against ex-mordrem, as their own flawed philosphy is to break free from the tablet. Faolain outright states. "Faolain: You know nothing of the court. We seek freedom, and Mordremoth's yoke is even more onerous than the Pale Tree's." when the commander reached her and Eir's cell.

    I think the court would probably be the worst of any faction against the Ex-mordrem, as they are sylvari who not only lived as part of the dream and thus "Were imprisoned by the tablet" (If not part of the small soundless community). If they are a courtier, they are one who fell to Mordremoth's influence and could be seen as "embracing" the mental slavery.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kalavier.1097 said:
    Honestly I would imagine the court being the harshest against ex-mordrem, as their own flawed philosphy is to break free from the tablet. Faolain outright states. "Faolain: You know nothing of the court. We seek freedom, and Mordremoth's yoke is even more onerous than the Pale Tree's." when the commander reached her and Eir's cell.

    I think the court would probably be the worst of any faction against the Ex-mordrem, as they are sylvari who not only lived as part of the dream and thus "Were imprisoned by the tablet" (If not part of the small soundless community). If they are a courtier, they are one who fell to Mordremoth's influence and could be seen as "embracing" the mental slavery.

    To be fair, Faolain wasn't entirely truthful. The reason the Nightmare Court was founded wasn't specifically to break free of the ventari tablet, but rather "to be who they were meant to be". So many Courtiers would no doubt accept Mordremoth's yoke if they joined under Cadeyrn rather than Faolain.

    Cadeyrn's Nightmare Court wanted to be what they "were meant to be", seeing the Ventari Tablet as something that's warping them.

    Faolain's Nightmare Court wanted to be free of all influences, seeing the Ventari Tablet (and Mordremoth) as enslavements.

    The Nightmare Court is not a united faction. The members of the Nightmare Court seen in Sparkfly Fen and Mount Maelstrom that dealt with the Inquest were a splinter faction, as were those who joined the Toxic Alliance, neither following Faolain. We don't know where they would stand with Mordremoth, or where those who followed Cadeyrn's teachings more than Faolain's would.

    One would think the Nightmare Court, so yearning for freedom, would be the strongest mentally against Mordremoth, but we also know some had turned to Mordremoth's side - such as Stavemaster Adryn. So it's likely at least some factions would have fallen to him.

    One of the many things that disappointed me about HoT was the lack of the Toxic Alliance given the pretty heavy indications that they were warped by Mordremoth's influence.

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  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    My very optimistic and naive hope is that the nightmare court has been slowly reforming behind the scenes and can now serve as kind of a support group for former mordrem guards. They have the longest history with (slight) mordrem influence and might be more understanding than any other group of sylvari.
    So far, unfortunately the Pale Tree herself has not been very helpful in that, even when she was still healthy. The way she did not deal with Wynne and Caithe and their knowledge unfortunately is very telling. If she has not changed her standpoint drastically in the meantime, I'm afraid ex-mordrem still might not be very welcome and supported in the Grove.

    While it would be a nice thing, sadly the nightmare court are locked into being forever kitten. The pale tree never pushed away her children, and even regretted that the nightmare court couldn't be saved and brought back. Based on every interaction with the avatar I've seen, I don't see why she would push away ex-mordrem guard and deny them support and care.

    The Sylvari as a race dealt with the news of being dragon minions, and being hated for Scarlet's actions by some areas. Why would they turn against their own kind trying to return from that dark place?

    Honestly I would imagine the court being the harshest against ex-mordrem, as their own flawed philosphy is to break free from the tablet. Faolain outright states. "Faolain: You know nothing of the court. We seek freedom, and Mordremoth's yoke is even more onerous than the Pale Tree's." when the commander reached her and Eir's cell.

    I think the court would probably be the worst of any faction against the Ex-mordrem, as they are sylvari who not only lived as part of the dream and thus "Were imprisoned by the tablet" (If not part of the small soundless community). If they are a courtier, they are one who fell to Mordremoth's influence and could be seen as "embracing" the mental slavery.

    I might be mistaken, but the nightmare court did help the pact at the final battle against mordremoth, no? Wasn't there some semi-cut line for that in DS?
    I take that as a start of a possible reform of the court. According to Faolain, the Court was originally motivated by finding out what being sylvari actually meant. They first tried to find out the peaceful way, to which the Pale Tree did not react in the wisest way. (She outright ignored Cadeyrn. Given his character, that was more or less oil to the flames.) Only when it was clear the sylvari were not supposed to want to know the truth and research it, the Court went on and became the evil group we know them as. However, at the core they were looking for the truth and for the chance to decide things by themselves. So, they found the truth. And they did not like it, apparently. At least, Faolain certainly did not.
    So their development comes down to the question: How open was their quest in the end? Can they admit to themselves that the truth they were looking for was not at all what they were expecting and that the Pale Tree was right from the start? If they can do that, they could eventually have become the support group I hope for. If not - well...

    On the other hand, there is the Tree. I don't think she would ever outright reject or exile her children, but from what I've seen so far, I also doubt she could really support traumatized sylvari. She tends to hide everything that might threaten her small peaceful grove to an extreme. She and Caithe had about 20 years between Wynne's death and Mordremoth. Apparently they never, in all that time, made any kind of emergency plan. First priority: Keep quiet, no matter what. Let the pact with many unsuspecting sylvari fly directly to the jungle, but keep quiet.
    I do like the Pale Tree, don't get me wrong. But she does sacrifice the life and happiness of some of her children to keep the "Dream" safe. Just take the PC, for example: She lied from the very start and sent the PC to directly fight an elder dragon the PC was never meant to fight at all. The dragon in the dream had nothing to do with Zhaitan, but she couldn't risk telling anything near the truth.
    From Caithe we recently heard that HoT seemed like a bad dream to her now.
    The sylvari at the festival also didn't seem like he got much support from anyone.

    Those are just very lose straws, of course. But I suspect that the Tree and the Grove sylvari are still pretty much not talking about anything mordrem. Ignoring the problem and the trauma might work for some, but I think they need better therapists. :lol: And I hope they have them by now.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    I might be mistaken, but the nightmare court did help the pact at the final battle against mordremoth, no? Wasn't there some semi-cut line for that in DS?
    I take that as a start of a possible reform of the court. According to Faolain, the Court was originally motivated by finding out what being sylvari actually meant. They first tried to find out the peaceful way, to which the Pale Tree did not react in the wisest way. (She outright ignored Cadeyrn. Given his character, that was more or less oil to the flames.) Only when it was clear the sylvari were not supposed to want to know the truth and research it, the Court went on and became the evil group we know them as. However, at the core they were looking for the truth and for the chance to decide things by themselves. So, they found the truth. And they did not like it, apparently. At least, Faolain certainly did not.

    The problem lies in the fact that nightmare court sylvari are subconciously drawn to spread nightmare to other sylvari, whatever the means. The nightmare as established is linked to the dream, but won't stop at anything short of totally consuming and taking over it. Yeah, the nightmare court duchess briefly helped us against Mordremoth but that doesn't mean at all that she, or those under her would actually cease doing nightmare court actions.

    So their development comes down to the question: How open was their quest in the end? Can they admit to themselves that the truth they were looking for was not at all what they were expecting and that the Pale Tree was right from the start? If they can do that, they could eventually have become the support group I hope for. If not - well...

    While I'm all for this course (I personally would have preferred if the nightmare was actually Mordremoth's creeping influence, and Cadeyrn's original faction was more mellow and Faolain sent it into pure evil, even though from what I've seen the last bit is true either way), sadly we know the nightmare court are stuck in their path to spread nightmare. Sure they may have various views about Mordremoth and the Pale tree, but their minds are wired to spread the influence.

    On the other hand, there is the Tree. I don't think she would ever outright reject or exile her children, but from what I've seen so far, I also doubt she could really support traumatized sylvari. She tends to hide everything that might threaten her small peaceful grove to an extreme. She and Caithe had about 20 years between Wynne's death and Mordremoth. Apparently they never, in all that time, made any kind of emergency plan. First priority: Keep quiet, no matter what. Let the pact with many unsuspecting sylvari fly directly to the jungle, but keep quiet.
    I do like the Pale Tree, don't get me wrong. But she does sacrifice the life and happiness of some of her children to keep the "Dream" safe. Just take the PC, for example: She lied from the very start and sent the PC to directly fight an elder dragon the PC was never meant to fight at all. The dragon in the dream had nothing to do with Zhaitan, but she couldn't risk telling anything near the truth.

    Do remember that particular secret in the end (IIRC) she looked back and felt bad about doing so. Also her interactions with her children increased after the whole "Cadeyrn creates the nightmare court and Faolain goes full public evil." I'm not sure where you get the idea of her hiding everything from, as the only big secret I can see is the "We are minions of Mordremoth." Also untrue about the dragon. The PC sylvari does have a wyld hunt to kill Zhaitan, and it's stated to be completed alongside Caithe's wyld hunt of a similar nature. That Wyld hunt then "reactivates" as a mission to kill Mordremoth. Not a new hunt, but the previously finished one, continued.

    " Trahearne: The things we see in our Dream have a way of coming around. Your wyld hunt... Do you feel the call yet?

    PC: I haven't for some time, but I feel it now. Is this a new one?
    
    Trahearne: It is the same one. You helped to destroy Zhaitan, but that did not complete your wyld hunt. The next phase is beginning."
    

    From Caithe we recently heard that HoT seemed like a bad dream to her now.
    The sylvari at the festival also didn't seem like he got much support from anyone.

    Caithe has, especially since she finally managed to get away from Faolain (due to her not joining the nightmare court) been a loner.

    The Sylvari at the festival purposefully isolated himself and climbed that spire to be alone. He picked a task and pushed himself to quiet the echoes of Mordremoth within his mind. There is no indication that he was lacking support or was denied help.

    Those are just very lose straws, of course. But I suspect that the Tree and the Grove sylvari are still pretty much not talking about anything mordrem. Ignoring the problem and the trauma might work for some, but I think they need better therapists. :lol: And I hope they have them by now.

    Due to time locked nature, we don't know for sure. But considering how the pale tree was directly attacked by Mordremoth's minions and took a long time to recover, I doubt they are ignoring the problems of the world around them. I'm sure they are helping people recover and heal, and try to get past the horrific memories.

  • @Fenella.2634 said:
    My very optimistic and naive hope is that the nightmare court has been slowly reforming behind the scenes and can now serve as kind of a support group for former mordrem guards. They have the longest history with (slight) mordrem influence and might be more understanding than any other group of sylvari.
    So far, unfortunately the Pale Tree herself has not been very helpful in that, even when she was still healthy. The way she did not deal with Wynne and Caithe and their knowledge unfortunately is very telling. If she has not changed her standpoint drastically in the meantime, I'm afraid ex-mordrem still might not be very welcome and supported in the Grove.

    after the attack of the shadow of mordremoth the pale tree was in no position to do anything. And we don't know her current state. Yes, she mishandled the Caithe/Faolein/Wynne situation, but it fits into her other actions - she never stops her children to do anything stupid. She advises them. She teaches them, but she does not interfere.

    I am sure she felt very bad about the whole thing - but if there is one person to blame it is Caithe. She could have stopped F. Instead she chose to kill Wynne.

  • anninke.7469anninke.7469 Member ✭✭✭

    A Pale Tree's take on the possible returnees was mentioned several times, but I'd be more worried about your regular Sylvari attitude. Because even if your mother deity is willing to take you back, what about that guy living next door whose partner you've killed while you were changed? Sure, you were not really sane and in control but will he understand? And will he forgive? And the others you've hurt (no matter if directly in a fight or by killing their friends or lovers)?

    This goes for the Mordy-brainwashed and even more for the Courtiers if there acually was a way for them to break free of the Nightmare. I have a theory that perhaps they might, but first - no one quits the Court just like that, and second - if they managed to leave and live, where would they go? Hardly back to those they've been killing, kidnapping and so on. In the best case they'd probably end up jailed for life.

    So maybe some kind of rehab colony for both of those somewhere not too close? Would be an interesting Wyld Hunt for someone.

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