What's accetable for burst — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What's accetable for burst

Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited June 15, 2019 in PVP

Whats acceptable for burst now?

Edit: But only/even if --- should be on the options.
and i don't know how to edit the options but....yea....

Tingle my stingleberry

What's accetable for burst 69 votes

Burst is ok when I can see it and only if the class has to use 5+ abilities
13%
Talek.6795bOTEB.1573DonArkanio.6419AlexPlay.8436yusayu.3629Edge.8724toxic.3648illuminosity.8537Mad hunter.1270 9 votes
Burst is ok if I see it
31%
Vagrant.7206ArthurDent.9538Lighter.5631DanAlcedo.3281Falan.1839Azure The Heartless.3261Azertus.3628Jagdtiger.2517Gaberen.4325barei.8967DragonFury.6243Megametzler.5729Wisty.4135Zabulus.2071kiri.1467Zexanima.7851Paradoxoglanis.1904VDAC.2137Snellibee.2761Scared.7195 22 votes
Burst is ok if I see it and the class uses 1-3 abilities
13%
Mr Godlike.6098bigo.9037sitarskee.5738Stallic.2397alwswannafly.3428montecristo.1324KiroIB.4508ChartFish.1308Inkuoh.7410 9 votes
Burst is not OK at all
5%
Radiobiology.6185Elmo Benchwarmer.3025Burnfall.9573ZeteCommander.4937 4 votes
Burst is ok but only if the class uses 5+ abilities
8%
Solori.6025Daishi.6027AllNightPlayer.1286JETWING.2759Aaron Forestman.4758Hylo.1968 6 votes
Burst is ok but only if the class uses 1-4 abilities
5%
Vaga.5174Menyus.4610pukish.5784DoomNexus.5324 4 votes
Cheesecake is best cake ( or other)
21%
Rettan.9603Xstein.2187Exedore.6320TheBravery.9615Arkantos.7460Raiden The Beast.3016otto.5684Adry.7512Lincolnbeard.1735SoulSin.5682spectrito.8513verskore.4312praqtos.9035Artemisflame.7462Flying.6509 15 votes

Comments

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2019
    Burst is ok but only if the class uses 5+ abilities

    Point of the poll is to determine what people find acceptable for burst. Is it ok for a class do have burst? Is it only ok for certain classes to burst?
    Are potatoes an acceptable vegetable to binge on?
    Find out more in todays episode of Forum PVP

    Edit: Oh goodie it works :D

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Cheesecake is best cake ( or other)

    Other - chocolate cake.

    The degenerate

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Are we talking about mesmer burst only? or any burst?

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Burst is ok but only if the class uses 5+ abilities

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Other - chocolate cake.

    .....depends on the chocolate cake. Like some cakes from the grocery store are WAAAYYY to rich to be edible.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Burst is ok but only if the class uses 5+ abilities

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    Are we talking about mesmer burst only? or any burst?

    Any burst.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Burst is ok if I see it

    As burst is simply doing relatively high dps over a short time span the only way to remove it would be to completely homogenize all damage skills so that everyone is basically staff druid spamming auto attacks at each other. That would be about the dumbest thing anet could possibly do. Personally I think using number of skills in a combo as a metric to whether a burst should be allowed to hit for a certain amount of damage is kind of dumb as it completely fails to take into account how some skills are much easier to land and some are much harder to avoid than others. For instance I have no issues with full channel hundred blades being able to 100-0 people with 1 button press since it is so easy to avoid without proper setup from a long duration cc.

    On the opposite end of the spectrum you have stuff like fresh air ele and mantra mesmer which focus around hitting as many instant cast damage skills as possible at the same time. While the combo may take 5+ skills it has a severe lack of telegraphs which results in much less back and forth, less play and counterplay, makes fights feel largely luck based, and dumbed down to kill them before they kill you. Stealth bursts and instant no los port combos also more or less fit into this category since they both allow otherwise we'll telegraphed and appropriately hard hitting skills to no longer have an actual telegraph. These are the bursts that I don't think should really exist in their current form.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Burst is ok if I see it

    While it should be (a little) predictable, I don't care about the amount of burst. I also don't care how many skills are used.

    However, if a burst is missed, it must be possible to make them pay. No burst from 1200 away, no instant stealth or several evade covers or lots of stability or... stuff. That's just cheap.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    While it should be (a little) predictable, I don't care about the amount of burst. I also don't care how many skills are used.

    However, if a burst is missed, it must be possible to make them pay. No burst from 1200 away, no instant stealth or several evade covers or lots of stability or... stuff. That's just cheap.

    ....maybe pvp should be limited to core war at limited burst potential

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Burst is ok if I see it

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    While it should be (a little) predictable, I don't care about the amount of burst. I also don't care how many skills are used.

    However, if a burst is missed, it must be possible to make them pay. No burst from 1200 away, no instant stealth or several evade covers or lots of stability or... stuff. That's just cheap.

    ....maybe pvp should be limited to core war at limited burst potential

    Core in general was a lot better, HoT was already going in a difficult direction. Now there are several offenders to this golden rule (not speaking about general powercreep here, just means of how to apply burst).

  • Zawn.9647Zawn.9647 Member ✭✭✭

    number of abilities has nothing to do with burst being fair or not... mesmer burst uses a lot of abilities and is as kitten as soulbeast sicem...
    burst should take 40-65% of my HP, not take me from 100 to 0 in a couple seconds

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm of the opinion that no matter what, on the fastest scale of things the quickest a player should be getting rushed down by a single extremely offensive and bursty enemy is 5 seconds minimum.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Scared.7195Scared.7195 Member ✭✭
    Burst is ok if I see it

    Burst is okay, feels good to gank people and good to avoid bursts, like haha pleb ofc i saw that coming. But really some bursts are hard to see. I only recently learned one of the tells for zerker which is the signet activating but other than that either you find out a player is using a bursty spec through dying instantly, or being lucky enough to dodge the first burst. Maybe someone wants to post a thread on how to predict bursts would be helpful imo.

  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭
    Burst is ok if I see it

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    I'm of the opinion that no matter what, on the fastest scale of things the quickest a player should be getting rushed down by a single extremely offensive and bursty enemy is 5 seconds minimum.

    Is this standing still and not doing anything or is this with the usage of evades etc? 5 seconds to kill someones as a dps class when they're afk is absurd. We don't need bunker meta again

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019
    Burst is ok but only if the class uses 5+ abilities

    Can we add "Requires Line of sight" to the list?

    I don't think there is a problem with stealth bursts in general. The likes of Ranger, Mesmers, and Engies the duration is short enough that you can reasonably anticipate when the burst is going to land, or reliably play around the stealth so it's wasted.
    (Hunter's shot 3 seconds for 12 sec c/d is kinda bs, but whatever)

    Even Thief I think is fine, the only problematic design I find particularly more so with Deadeye, is that the burst is not easily punished enough, escape is almost free unless you land a one shot combo yourself on something with the most dodges in game. Optimally this is kind of perpetual until the thief makes a massive mistake. Although for conquest I find this less of a big deal, if you face this 1v1 on point you get the point so long as they keep whiffing.

  • Menyus.4610Menyus.4610 Member ✭✭✭
    Burst is ok but only if the class uses 1-4 abilities

    Thief purpose is basically the fast surprise burst :D , i mastered the skill of surprise, and tbh i rarely get surprised by other thieves no matter on what class i play, i can hear when a mesmer/thief comes, i can see it, also i continuously moving the camera and looking for them if i dont see them on the mini map, so yeah on this 2 class high burst from stealth is totally acceptable however on other classes high burst from stealth is totally unacceptable in my opinion for example, holo and soulbeast suprise bu**ex is totally wth

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    I'm of the opinion that no matter what, on the fastest scale of things the quickest a player should be getting rushed down by a single extremely offensive and bursty enemy is 5 seconds minimum.

    Is this standing still and not doing anything or is this with the usage of evades etc? 5 seconds to kill someones as a dps class when they're afk is absurd. We don't need bunker meta again

    5 seconds is basically five skills that aren't instant cast. Five skill combo chained together is not that much.

    On the other end of the spectrum think it should be nearly impossible without just straight up fleeing for a single fight to last more than one minute straight.

    The shortest end of the spectrum should take longer. And every fight needs to have some amount of inevitability to it so that it ends in a reasonable time frame.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Zawn.9647Zawn.9647 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    I'm of the opinion that no matter what, on the fastest scale of things the quickest a player should be getting rushed down by a single extremely offensive and bursty enemy is 5 seconds minimum.

    Is this standing still and not doing anything or is this with the usage of evades etc? 5 seconds to kill someones as a dps class when they're afk is absurd. We don't need bunker meta again

    5 seconds is basically five skills that aren't instant cast. Five skill combo chained together is not that much.

    On the other end of the spectrum think it should be nearly impossible without just straight up fleeing for a single fight to last more than one minute straight.

    The shortest end of the spectrum should take longer. And every fight needs to have some amount of inevitability to it so that it ends in a reasonable time frame.

    I agree... also you dont need to open with burst. You can slow burn someone with autoattacks and random skills and then burst when its appropriate.
    the burst shouldnt be the 100-0 option.

  • Noha.3749Noha.3749 Member ✭✭✭

    Burst is OK if either:
    1. Glasscannon (zerk/assas/maraud)
    2. prolonged battle where a bruiser BUILDS UP to a burst through boons/traits/combos etc. i.e. not 3 clicks.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019
    Burst is ok if I see it

    I don't care about how many skills are used to set up burst. The only things I care about are:

    • If the burst is high damage, it should be telegraphed.
    • if an attack is not telegraphed or the telegraph can be completely hidden, it should do less damage.
    • If a burst requires a player to put themselves in a precarious position where they can be killed as they are bursting (large channel time, close proximity to player), the burst should do high damage if it hits.
    • If the burst can be executed from a safe distance away (1200 - 1500r) It should do less damage.
    • if the burst can be executed repeatedly in a short time span (<15 seconds) it should do less damage. If it takes time to ramp up, it should do more.

    basically, high risk, high reward. low risk, low reward. I don't even care about oneshots if there is clear, highly visible information that signifies it is about to happen. That's why I was so on board with deadeye originally.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Can't really compare something like a thief burst to something of a necro or guard tbh. The problem comes when you combine high bursts with high mobility, evasion and or invis.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Can't really compare something like a thief burst to something of a necro or guard tbh. The problem comes when you combine high bursts with high mobility, evasion and or invis.

    Yeah as those are the classes that should have highest burst since the classes that dont use those thing to stay alive still have got to great mobility,high hp,high armor(toughness),blocks,invulnerability skills etc that allow them to be effective in combat without needing a faster ttk ratio.a warrior, holi or soulbeast out bursting a thief is silliness. A necro who is purposefully given low mobility,slow cast times or blocks or invulnerability skills but a higher hp and a fast and easily depleted shroud as a defense it makes sense I'd be slow and hard hitting as well or I'd be a sitting duck/punching bag lol

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019
    Burst is ok if I see it

    acceptable burst, depends on how the burst can be executed, if pre nerf arc divided is not acceptable, then rev burst is also not acceptable, for it's ability of instantly stick to enemy from range, no matter ground level and coming out of no where.

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2019

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    I don't care about how many skills are used to set up burst. The only things I care about are:

    • If the burst is high damage, it should be telegraphed.
    • if an attack is not telegraphed or the telegraph can be completely hidden, it should do less damage.
    • If a burst requires a player to put themselves in a precarious position where they can be killed as they are bursting (large channel time, close proximity to player), the burst should do high damage if it hits.
    • If the burst can be executed from a safe distance away (1200 - 1500r) It should do less damage.
    • if the burst can be executed repeatedly in a short time span (<15 seconds) it should do less damage. If it takes time to ramp up, it should do more.

    basically, high risk, high reward. low risk, low reward. I don't even care about oneshots if there is clear, highly visible information that signifies it is about to happen. That's why I was so on board with deadeye originally.

    ^ I would add to this:

    • If the burst is unblockable, it should have an obvious tell (red circle on the ground, clear animation, etc.) and it should have fairly long window for the opponent to react (~0.75s). The unblockable effect should not be able to be applied to attacks that don't have these properties. (eg. Unstoppable Union, Signet of Might, etc.)
  • @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    I don't care about how many skills are used to set up burst. The only things I care about are:

    • If the burst is high damage, it should be telegraphed.
    • if an attack is not telegraphed or the telegraph can be completely hidden, it should do less damage.
    • If a burst requires a player to put themselves in a precarious position where they can be killed as they are bursting (large channel time, close proximity to player), the burst should do high damage if it hits.
    • If the burst can be executed from a safe distance away (1200 - 1500r) It should do less damage.
    • if the burst can be executed repeatedly in a short time span (<15 seconds) it should do less damage. If it takes time to ramp up, it should do more.

    basically, high risk, high reward. low risk, low reward. I don't even care about oneshots if there is clear, highly visible information that signifies it is about to happen. That's why I was so on board with deadeye originally.

    F/A weaver rejects all of these. An underrated beast of a build.

  • yusayu.3629yusayu.3629 Member ✭✭✭
    Burst is ok when I can see it and only if the class has to use 5+ abilities

    Burst should require skill to execute and allow for counterplay and/or put the bursting player into a very risky situation (i.e. current Power Mesmer) with limited possibilities for escape.

    It should not be achieved by passives and single button presses (i.e. current SLB & Herald).

    One way to limit burst would be to limit the access classes have to Might/Quickness. You should not get either of those boons for simple skill activations. Skills should reward boons when they hit players, so the opponent has the ability for some counterplay aside from boonstrip.

  • DoomNexus.5324DoomNexus.5324 Member ✭✭✭
    Burst is ok but only if the class uses 1-4 abilities

    I also think that CC and how long it takes to recover should play an important role in how much damage can be dealt. Like rampage for example is just ridiculous. The amount of CC spam in rampage (like if Holo and Warrior didn't already have enough in their regular toolkit) is just over the top + big damage. But rampage is a chapter on its own honestly.
    Longbow#4 into #2 with quickness on Ranger is also just stupid, especially when trying to engage or disengage. It's also always really nice when a ranger joins a teamfight and first of all kicks someone without stab off point with big damage follow up.
    I don't mind a 1/4s daze or anything but a 2second knockdown with a big burst follow up on the same weapon is just stupid imo.

    And yea there should definitely be better/more telegraphs, especially for Rev Sword#4 and Holo#5.. I get hit so often because I think I'm already miles away so they surely can't hit me but no, they still can because I'm like 5cm within the AoE. Would also help when playing Rev/Holo myself tbh, because like for Sword#4 the distance indicator below the skill isn't quite correct.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2019
    Burst is ok if I see it

    @coro.3176 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    I don't care about how many skills are used to set up burst. The only things I care about are:

    • If the burst is high damage, it should be telegraphed.
    • if an attack is not telegraphed or the telegraph can be completely hidden, it should do less damage.
    • If a burst requires a player to put themselves in a precarious position where they can be killed as they are bursting (large channel time, close proximity to player), the burst should do high damage if it hits.
    • If the burst can be executed from a safe distance away (1200 - 1500r) It should do less damage.
    • if the burst can be executed repeatedly in a short time span (<15 seconds) it should do less damage. If it takes time to ramp up, it should do more.

    basically, high risk, high reward. low risk, low reward. I don't even care about oneshots if there is clear, highly visible information that signifies it is about to happen. That's why I was so on board with deadeye originally.

    ^ I would add to this:

    • If the burst is unblockable, it should have an obvious tell (red circle on the ground, clear animation, etc.) and it should have fairly long window for the opponent to react (~0.75s). The unblockable effect should not be able to be applied to attacks that don't have these properties. (eg. Unstoppable Union, Signet of Might, etc.)

    Agreed. Getting nuked by prime light beam: fine. Getting nuked by something normally blockable being unblockable, with the only indication that it is unblockable being a small square under the target's hp bar: not fine.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • JETWING.2759JETWING.2759 Member ✭✭✭
    Burst is ok but only if the class uses 5+ abilities

    5+ skills and heavi status investiment(Like full static discharge Holosmith. Even they, can't 100% - 0% hp target like some ones that 100% - 0% hp in -1s).
    Perma stealth classes are an other issue...

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    I'm of the opinion that no matter what, on the fastest scale of things the quickest a player should be getting rushed down by a single extremely offensive and bursty enemy is 5 seconds minimum.

    Then this makes two players targeting one target less than five seconds....three players targeting one even shorter. In GW1 it took coordination to be able to burst a target like monk down. In gw2, one single player can do this with not even a fraction of the effort.

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