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Anet, any word on the stealth nerf to raid rewards?


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@Voltekka.2375 said:It IS rewarding enough, already. Plenty of other gamemodes people enjoy that have kitten rewards (wvw, for example).Plus, raids are sellable. Extremely profitable.

Okay, let me rephrase:What is the problem in having rewarding, repeatable content. The bags havent been amazing anyway, why nerf them?I didnt agree with nerfing Palawadan, i dont agree with nerfing raid rewards. If people wanna farm Palawadan/Raids all day for the rewards, by all means, let them do it.Also not everyone is able or willing to sell raids.

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@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:It IS rewarding enough, already. Plenty of other gamemodes people enjoy that have kitten rewards (wvw, for example).Plus, raids are sellable. Extremely profitable.

Okay, let me rephrase:What is the problem in having rewarding, repeatable content. The bags havent been amazing anyway, why nerf them?I didnt agree with nerfing Palawadan, i dont agree with nerfing raid rewards. If people wanna farm Palawadan/Raids all day for the rewards, by all means, let them do it.Also not everyone is able or willing to sell raids.

Exactly. They were already low. On top of that we got no info from anet why were they nerfed. That's why some might get riled up.

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@Voltekka.2375 said:Raiders complaining about not getting enough gold. With an abundance in ascended drops (selectable stat stuff), currency which they convert to ascended armor/weps (again, selectable stats), minis, exclusive skins, PvE unique legendary skins... Among other things.

Oh, how bad it must be to not get those extra 30 bags of gear...

Unless u are 100 hours into the game who gives a kitten about ascended. The only form of currency/item that matter in this game is gold (sad but true) asc mean kitten all, esp if the content gives u an armor that makes asc worthless.

Ow was also already rewarding between world bosses and metas why did we have to also buff all the pof content?

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@zealex.9410 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Raiders complaining about not getting enough gold. With an abundance in ascended drops (selectable stat stuff), currency which they convert to ascended armor/weps (again, selectable stats), minis, exclusive skins, PvE unique legendary skins... Among other things.

Oh, how bad it must be to not get those extra 30 bags of gear...

Unless u are 100 hours into the game who gives a kitten about ascended. The only form of currency/item that matter in this game is gold (sad but true) asc mean kitten all, esp if the content gives u an armor that makes asc worthless.

Ow was also already rewarding between world bosses and metas why did we have to also buff all the pof content?

I stand by what @"Vinceman.4572" said."I doubt that the number of players who did this was significantly existent.Of course, raid rewards have problems especially the CM reward situation but let's be honest hoarding bags and transfer them to toons + increasing MF to over 9k was and still is a pretty hardcore nerdy thing. Can't blame min/max people but with daily fracs & raid full clear we already swim in gold tbh."

Edit: if you even remotely compare raid and world boss rewards... Dunno what to say. As for PoF content being buffed, rewards were non existent. Lastly, I firmly believe most people would trade raid rewards for world boss or buffed PoF rewards any day.

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Raiders complaining about not getting enough gold. With an abundance in ascended drops (selectable stat stuff), currency which they convert to ascended armor/weps (again, selectable stats), minis, exclusive skins, PvE unique legendary skins... Among other things.

Oh, how bad it must be to not get those extra 30 bags of gear...

Unless u are 100 hours into the game who gives a kitten about ascended. The only form of currency/item that matter in this game is gold (sad but true) asc mean kitten all, esp if the content gives u an armor that makes asc worthless.

Ow was also already rewarding between world bosses and metas why did we have to also buff all the pof content?

I stand by what @"Vinceman.4572" said."I doubt that the number of players who did this was significantly existent.Of course, raid rewards have problems especially the CM reward situation but let's be honest hoarding bags and transfer them to toons + increasing MF to over 9k was and still is a pretty hardcore nerdy thing. Can't blame min/max people but with daily fracs & raid full clear we already swim in gold tbh."

If only a small number of ppl did it and the rest were able to play nornaly and enjoy the game that means it didnt affect anyone, so why nerf it in the first place. Also whether smth is nerdy "hardcore" or not its really an excuse to nerf it. The most hardcore thing i feel like was prob getting the mf for it and thats not really anything hard. Its prob less dedication than the ppl doing the fgs mat farm every couple weeks with prov agents.

I didnt see that even-more-hardcore farm getting nerfed.

Edit: if you even remotely compare raid and world boss rewards... Dunno what to say. As for PoF content being buffed, rewards were non existent. Lastly, I firmly believe most people would trade raid rewards for world boss or buffed PoF rewards any day.

Why not, we are talking about x world bosses every days of the week vs like what 20 encounters per week in raids?

Even if pof was dead ppl had already hot, wb and istan, ow was already "plenty rewarding" so justifying buffing that over repeating raids seems biased imo.

Hell the miniscule incentive of repeating raids also incentivised ppl to help newbies which was good for the community, what good to the community did the pof buffs introduce?

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I don't believe that this was a nerf with intention behind it. It was a universal change for all game modes if I'm not mistaken and not purposely directed against the raiding community. So it's kind of obvious that this won't get reverted.I also doubt that those bags really shifted people to help out rather than doing other stuff in the past. The people I know (knew because lots of them left - not due to rewards) repeated raids because they wanted to help others getting the clears or were using multiple accounts to get the usual reward several times. Literally none of them was raiding for the extra bags. Yes, you took the bags, you opened them, salvaged and/or sold stuff and it was fine. Not to speak about using toons for opening them etc.We also all know that it was never intended that repeating raids would make decent profit because everyone with brain knows what would have happened --> squads farming the fastest bosses over and over again for maximum profit.

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Upon reading this thread it might be the case that eventually (as far in the future as when they decide "yeah this mode is dead") raids will go the way of dungeon rewards, i.e add a continuous chest reward for completing 9 unique bosses/encounters or something like this. Right now Anet sees no reason to give such incentive and they have all the population data that we don't.

With this said, I've also never seen anyone explicitly raiding because of the bags. Quite on the contrary, all I used to see would be people accumulating thousands of them and getting lazy about opening it. It's literally a non-issue and I think some would not even notice if Anet flat out removed unid gear and left only exotic drops.

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@"Vinceman.4572" said:I don't believe that this was a nerf with intention behind it. It was a universal change for all game modes if I'm not mistaken and not purposely directed against the raiding community. So it's kind of obvious that this won't get reverted.

I guess depends on the person, i personally didnt really find "much" to do past the dailies which took an hour hour and a half max. Add like idk 2 or 3 hours per week for raids, still theres plenty of free time, time that ppl might wanted to spend doing content they enjoy.

I also doubt that those bags really shifted people to help out rather than doing other stuff in the past. The people I know (knew because lots of them left - not due to rewards) repeated raids because they wanted to help others getting the clears or were using multiple accounts to get the usual reward several times. Literally none of them was raiding for the extra bags.

I mean isnt it the same but more reqarding to raid with alt acounts?

Yes, you took the bags, you opened them, salvaged and/or sold stuff and it was fine. Not to speak about using toons for opening them etc.

We also all know that it was never intended that repeating raids would make decent profit because everyone with brain knows what would have happened --> squads farming the fastest bosses over and over again for maximum profit.

I doubt i was more rewarding than say doing your world boss train or the daily hot meta, im not familiar with training but i doubt it was always the smoothest experience, so having the reward of a repeated clear at least added smth.

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I do agree that....the reward nerf is not a good idea .. when i was doing fc weekly before, i used to keep those bags and open with low level character .. sometimes i will join training pug group to help them and get extra loot is always nice. These are little things some but not everyone enjoy doing but i did.. it doesnt bother me now since i stop raiding. But i think anet should consider buff up the loot for raids.. not for farming it repeatedly but at least an incentive to repeat and help other group

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@Vinceman.4572 said:

@zealex.9410 said:I mean isnt it the same but more reqarding to raid with alt acounts?

No, because on other accounts you get the gold again + chance for asc loot and stuff like a ghostly. A 2nd account amortizes after few weeks btw. and would be the best investment if you are into raiding more than once a week.

I meant the same as in raiding multiple times per week for rewards.

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Raiders complaining about not getting enough gold. With an abundance in ascended drops (selectable stat stuff), currency which they convert to ascended armor/weps (again, selectable stats), minis, exclusive skins, PvE unique legendary skins... Among other things.

Oh, how bad it must be to not get those extra 30 bags of gear...

It's already low. There is no incentive to run raids more than once per week to help out newbies. Some people are ( or were ) in this game - believe it or not, only for raids. Lowering the reward more will ravage already low numbers of players that are left. I get that you play this game for different reasons than I do. Nerf in this case is simply bad move from anet. Unless they are actively trying to kill them that is.

Honestly, I have a very hard time believing experienced raiders help newbs for those extra 30 bags of gear. I do not day this sarcastically, and I honestly mean no offense. I also know people play gw2 mostly for raids, it is acceptable cause they play what they have most fun with. Nothing wrong here!That being said, I do believe end game content (raids and T4 plus cm fractals) is very rewarding, for the time people spend on it.

For the bags? No. But it made it bearable. As I said, at least I could sustain additional raiding per week with those "30 bags of gear". Now I have to dip into the loot from first clear, and really... why would I do that for random people that most of the time cant even be bothered to get on voice for explanations or switch around a few traits.

@Voltekka.2375 I have a bank full ascended gear. So what? I cant exactly buy food with that now, can I? Or a skin I like... Also, I think you are slightly over-estimating the dropchance of ascended gear in raids. I got more from fractals than from raids. The raid skins? Theres a reason pretty much nobody uses those skins. They are cheaply made and ugly. Minis? Who cares. Legendary armor? I got 3 sets. I dont use a single skin of those, because dye channels havent been fixed in years. Currently working on the wvw one because it looks fantastic. And can be dyed.

Repeating raids never was "profitable" if you didnt sell runs. Dont kid yourself about that. Weekly first clears with pugs take 5+ hours nowadays, so even that weekly clear without a static isnt as profitable as doing the daily timegated hamster wheel routine.

And here's something for everybody to think about. Rewards are also a measure of "educating" and "guiding" a playerbase. In gw2, running around a map on a mount, pressing f once in a while... or autoattacking during meta events are one of the most profitable things to do. Things that are more challenging and would force players to get better (not good, just BETTER than pressing 1 and f) are not rewarding enough to draw players in. Hence why many gw2 players are complaining immediately when theres something even a little more demanding (time and skillwise). The rewardstructure is with a reason why gw2 is basically a browser game with better graphics.I remember how the gw2 community meme'ed at the diablo players for getting diablo immortal. But you know what? I bet diablo immortal will have a better reward structure, less cash grab and more challenging content than gw2.

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@lare.5129 said:any additional reward for repeat will be dis-balanced, because some cool ppl will fart same boss 100 times .. so after we we will get suggestion nerf skills damage, or up boss ..but on same time people like me can't kill this boss once in year at all wiht current attributes..if someone don't like t5 - > use mf to make t6

Fractal farm can be 50g per hour. Even 60+ with some organized groups. A raidboss needs to drop like 10g to come even close to that. Demanding gold to at least cover the bufffood is too unbalanced for you?Open world farm is currently more rewarding than raids anyways. Repeated raidboss kills are just not worth it at all. Kralk is repeatable aswell and far more rewarding than raids.You also can't reset raids yet so any bossfarm is limited to the amount of accounts the players have access to. I'm not even sure why the basic gold reward doesn't stay per boss anyways. Like I said Fractal farm is far more rewarding and even RIBA can earn you 20g+ per hour. Why are raids outside of ascended drops and fun so not worth it?

@Vinceman.4572 said:We also all know that it was never intended that repeating raids would make decent profit because everyone with brain knows what would have happened --> squads farming the fastest bosses over and over again for maximum profit.

Actually no. Unless you can get to cairn, kill it and reopen another instance in less than 3 minutes. The rewards are that shitty if it comes to optimized farming.Farming low level fractals with fractal god is more rewarding than raiding.

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@Nephalem.8921 said:Actually no. Unless you can get to cairn, kill it and reopen another instance in less than 3 minutes. The rewards are that kitten if it comes to optimized farming.

Actually yes, you only need 1 player with a 2nd acc. and you can reopen another instance immediately. Heck, you can even do it on 2nd screen while you're still on the boss on 1st screen as your squad do not need you for the last 20s to clear it optimally.

Farming low level fractals with fractal god is more rewarding than raiding.

And since we have fractal farming for aeons this seems to be highly intended. Repeated raiding being rewarding just isn't and I can totally understand why they did that. Of course some vet raiders are not satisfied with that but it is heavily in line with the philosophy that it's open world/easy content in the first place and raids are a niche content. We can go back and forth in every thread but the conclusion stays the same. ^^

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For one thing, easy bosses could have less loot. But considering that "farming" single bosses would be similar to fractals goldfarm, that would still be > 50s per kill.For another thing, a similar system to dungeon rewards, where a certain amount of different bosses give extra loot, could also be easily implemented, making singleboss farming pointless.

Anet instead chose to nerf the repeatable rewards even more.

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@"Krzysztof.5973" said:Push what? "Hardest" content in the game is getting nerfed.this is your opinion. For my this raid content to much so high, that I don't have direct plan start it.

@zealex.9410 said:You can repeat metas multiple times a daythis is sound like you can raid all day too .. And from first meta run I get amalgam, from second - no. Raid how i see have same drop row.

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@lare.5129 said:

@"Krzysztof.5973" said:Push what? "Hardest" content in the game is getting nerfed.this is your opinion. For my this raid content to much so high, that I don't have direct plan start it.

@zealex.9410 said:You can repeat metas multiple times a daythis is sound like you can raid all day too .. And from first meta run I get amalgam, from second - no. Raid how i see have same drop row.

Do metas not reset after a couple hours? U can refarm the meta for some rewards multiple times per day

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I'm with Vince on this.

I doubt the change was intentional but rather the result of game wide loot changes to bags. The rewards before this unintended change were already bad past the 1 time per week loot (which too as not that great unless you were experienced enough to clear raids fast). I doubt this will affect people helping or not helping since I doubt that this loot was ever a factor for people to run raids repeatedly (at least I never bothered with the 2nd kill rewards). There are far more grevious and concerning issues which need attending and fixing/solving. I honestly could care less about multiple clear raid rewards on the same account.

If you are a hardcore raider and into raiding multiple times per week, make a second or third account. Given the proper guild/static, it shouldn't take that long to get a base set of classes raid ready. That way you can get the unique weekly rewards again and the other benefits of having an additional account.

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@zealex.9410 said:

@"Krzysztof.5973" said:Push what? "Hardest" content in the game is getting nerfed.this is your opinion. For my this raid content to much so high, that I don't have direct plan start it.

@zealex.9410 said:You can repeat metas multiple times a daythis is sound like you can raid all day too .. And from first meta run I get amalgam, from second - no. Raid how i see have same drop row.

Do metas not reset after a couple hours? U can refarm the meta for some rewards multiple times per day

You can not, the amalgam gem chest is only the first time you run any meta that rewards it limited to 1 time a day.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@"Krzysztof.5973" said:Push what? "Hardest" content in the game is getting nerfed.this is your opinion. For my this raid content to much so high, that I don't have direct plan start it.

@zealex.9410 said:You can repeat metas multiple times a daythis is sound like you can raid all day too .. And from first meta run I get amalgam, from second - no. Raid how i see have same drop row.

Do metas not reset after a couple hours? U can refarm the meta for some rewards multiple times per day

You can not, the amalgam gem chest is only the first time you run any meta that rewards it limited to 1 time a day.

Are the chest at the end of every map also one per day or they reset for each meta?

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@zealex.9410 said:

@"Krzysztof.5973" said:Push what? "Hardest" content in the game is getting nerfed.this is your opinion. For my this raid content to much so high, that I don't have direct plan start it.

@zealex.9410 said:You can repeat metas multiple times a daythis is sound like you can raid all day too .. And from first meta run I get amalgam, from second - no. Raid how i see have same drop row.

Do metas not reset after a couple hours? U can refarm the meta for some rewards multiple times per day

You can not, the amalgam gem chest is only the first time you run any meta that rewards it limited to 1 time a day.

Are the chest at the end of every map also one per day or they reset for each meta?

If I remember right yes.

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@zealex.9410 said:Do metas not reset after a couple hours? U can refarm the meta for some rewards multiple times per daynor realy, each meta have some individulal things .. one palawadad you get additional bonus on each char, and one for account day, on choya one per day, .. there is no one same rule. Anyway raid is top content so top players have change to participate in other action. And I don't see any issue do metas all day. This is different thing.

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I used to love opening the Champ and Utility bags on my lower level character and mass salvaging/selling stuff. Even if this added cleaning time decreased the hourly "profit" of raiding to be nearly the same as the current UNID drops, it was cathartic.

Whether only perceived or actually realized, the nerfs don't disturb me as much as Anet's lack of communication. It feels like Raids are going the way of Dungeons, Fractal CMs, and Guild World Events: silently discontinued.

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