No Mount = Garbage

[Rafvik.3428]

People ITT advocating for pure P2win omfgIf Anet make a rental mount system and if that system costs a single copper, I'm not coming back.Anet need to apologise to everyone that tried WvW and wasted their time playing that garbage with everyone running around on their p2win tigers.

To put mounts in WvW is either so short-sighted it is incompetence or they knew this was going to happen and therefore it's malice.Which is worse? Incompetence or malice?

[Aza.2105]

I don't really wvw much, so I just got my warclaw the other day. I had no problem keeping up with the zerg on foot.

[shiri.4257]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

I think you are confusing theme parks like Disney to the local circus you like to routinely attend.Just stop typing.

@Susy.7529 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Why put a price on a dieing mode?

If you think it's a dieing mode, it's pointless to even complain and play it, since it would die anyway.

No ones complaining. Just stating the fact that the mode is dieing due to toxic change that this community is so deadset on defending.

With low population comes low revenue. With low revenue comes 0/poor updates.

When the population is already low, its not a smart idea to push toxic design that are more then likely to push new players away while only maintaining the ones who already play the game in its roughest of times.

Why? are you afraid of clowns?

Do you know what else is a form of p2w? quitting a f2p game mode and paying for a new game every month cuz you keep losing at them!

[Susy.7529]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

I think you are confusing theme parks like Disney to the local circus you like to routinely attend.Just stop typing.

@Susy.7529 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Why put a price on a dieing mode?

If you think it's a dieing mode, it's pointless to even complain and play it, since it would die anyway.

No ones complaining. Just stating the fact that the mode is dieing due to toxic change that this community is so deadset on defending.

With low population comes low revenue. With low revenue comes 0/poor updates.

When the population is already low, its not a smart idea to push toxic design that are more then likely to push new players away while only maintaining the ones who already play the game in its roughest of times.

Ok it's a fact, got it.So what now? WvW will die, better come to PvE or another game, nothing new here, same old story.

[GaijinGuy.8476]

@Susy.7529 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

I think you are confusing theme parks like Disney to the local circus you like to routinely attend.Just stop typing.

@Susy.7529 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Why put a price on a dieing mode?

If you think it's a dieing mode, it's pointless to even complain and play it, since it would die anyway.

No ones complaining. Just stating the fact that the mode is dieing due to toxic change that this community is so deadset on defending.

With low population comes low revenue. With low revenue comes 0/poor updates.

When the population is already low, its not a smart idea to push toxic design that are more then likely to push new players away while only maintaining the ones who already play the game in its roughest of times.

Ok it's a fact, got it.So what now? WvW will die, better come to PvE or another game, nothing new here, same old story.

Quite a few games with a WvW like system on the horizon. IF one of them turns out to be good I can see the Gw2 population declining sharply.

[Obtena.7952]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Susy.7529 said:Buy PoF, unlock mount, problem solved.

Why put a price on a dieing mode?So the viewpoint is that everything should be free because you dont like it?

I also think Porsche is a dying brand of cars and they should just give me one for free.

The view point is, why raise your prices when no one is coming to your theme park aside from regulars that are slowly getting bored of the same rides over and over again.

Anet isnt gaining customers with this system, they are slowly losing more, hence the population slowly dwindling in both PvP modes.

Anet isn't raising their prices ... they are keeping them the same for everyone ... it's up to the people to decide if they want to pay.

Don't fearmonger this around the guise of losing customers ... the people we are talking about here haven't paid ANYTHING and aren't even willing to shell out for expansions. These are not 'customers'. If Anet makes things actual customers pay for free to someone that wants to pay nothing, their rewards system will have no integrity. That's a MASSIVE problem as a business.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Warclaw and gliding should've been enabled by default, and instead upgraded through collections and masteries.

Imagine the uniqueness that GW2 would have to its PvP modes if it had these features as a core part of the combat mechanics, instead they're a privilege for those with the time, energy and resources to spend on them. Sure, it may not be a lot to veteran players ,but to a newbie, those quests lines are extensive, I mean we're talking about players who can barely fill out their traits without getting overwhelmed.

Same situation in PvE, newer players who join the game can't catch any events or get anything done to gain experience. The argument "PvE hast tons of waypoints" only applies if players have world completion and have unlocked those waypoints.

Mounts are super fun in all game modes, but they're a plague on new players and long-term player retention. Remember that the game is completely different for an experienced player and a new player.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Susy.7529 said:Buy PoF, unlock mount, problem solved.

Why put a price on a dieing mode?So the viewpoint is that everything should be free because you dont like it?

I also think Porsche is a dying brand of cars and they should just give me one for free.

The view point is, why raise your prices when no one is coming to your theme park aside from regulars that are slowly getting bored of the same rides over and over again.

Anet isnt gaining customers with this system, they are slowly losing more, hence the population slowly dwindling in both PvP modes.

Anet isn't raising their prices ... they are keeping them the same for everyone ... it's up to the people to decide if they want to pay.

Don't fearmonger this around the guise of losing customers ... the people we are talking about here haven't paid ANYTHING and aren't even willing to shell out for expansions. These are not 'customers'. If Anet makes things actual customers pay for free to someone that wants to pay nothing, their rewards system will have no integrity. That's a MASSIVE problem as a business.

The price for entry is not the sameas it's always been. Now there is a gate to force people to actually pay in order to be even. Core/Hot Specs could still play and win fights, especially in a zerg/team setting. But adding in mounts has made it even more of a pay your way in to be in on the rising advantage.

Even if you supported the company previously you are now screwed unless you pay for PoF even if you had no interest in doing so due to lack of interesting content. PoF hands down is a PvE update, not a WvW or a PvP update. The elite specs were designed with a high focus on PvE given their balance.

Know that this pertains to people who arent just f2p but those who bought Core and HoT as well.

[Obtena.7952]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Susy.7529 said:Buy PoF, unlock mount, problem solved.

Why put a price on a dieing mode?So the viewpoint is that everything should be free because you dont like it?

I also think Porsche is a dying brand of cars and they should just give me one for free.

The view point is, why raise your prices when no one is coming to your theme park aside from regulars that are slowly getting bored of the same rides over and over again.

Anet isnt gaining customers with this system, they are slowly losing more, hence the population slowly dwindling in both PvP modes.

Anet isn't raising their prices ... they are keeping them the same for everyone ... it's up to the people to decide if they want to pay.

Don't fearmonger this around the guise of losing customers ... the people we are talking about here haven't paid ANYTHING and aren't even willing to shell out for expansions. These are not 'customers'. If Anet makes things actual customers pay for free to someone that wants to pay nothing, their rewards system will have no integrity. That's a MASSIVE problem as a business.

The price for entry is not the sameas it's always been. Now there is a gate to force people to actually pay in order to be even. Core/Hot Specs could still play and win fights, especially in a zerg/team setting. But adding in mounts has made it even more of a pay your way in to be in on the rising advantage.

Even if you supported the company previously you are now screwed unless you pay for PoF even if you had no interest in doing so due to lack of interesting content. PoF hands down is a PvE update, not a WvW or a PvP update. The elite specs were designed with a high focus on PvE given their balance.

Know that this pertains to people who arent just f2p but those who bought Core and HoT as well.

I don't see a problem with that. Again, there isn't some reasonable expectation that if you want to be 'even', you pay. That's a well established standard and it's very reasonable. PoF is just a PVE update? That's funny because I see all kinds of people taking advantage of PoF skills, gear prefixes, food, especs, etc ... in WvW. Even if it's not just F2P players ... the statement still stands. If players don't support the game, why should the game accommodate them? If those people don't want to buy PoF, why should they have access to things that are part of PoF, regardless of the game mode? That doesn't make sense. It's their choice and they can always have the option to exercise the choice to adopt it if they are so disadvantaged.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Susy.7529 said:Buy PoF, unlock mount, problem solved.

Why put a price on a dieing mode?So the viewpoint is that everything should be free because you dont like it?

I also think Porsche is a dying brand of cars and they should just give me one for free.

The view point is, why raise your prices when no one is coming to your theme park aside from regulars that are slowly getting bored of the same rides over and over again.

Anet isnt gaining customers with this system, they are slowly losing more, hence the population slowly dwindling in both PvP modes.

Anet isn't raising their prices ... they are keeping them the same for everyone ... it's up to the people to decide if they want to pay.

Don't fearmonger this around the guise of losing customers ... the people we are talking about here haven't paid ANYTHING and aren't even willing to shell out for expansions. These are not 'customers'. If Anet makes things actual customers pay for free to someone that wants to pay nothing, their rewards system will have no integrity. That's a MASSIVE problem as a business.

The price for entry is not the sameas it's always been. Now there is a gate to force people to actually pay in order to be even. Core/Hot Specs could still play and win fights, especially in a zerg/team setting. But adding in mounts has made it even more of a pay your way in to be in on the rising advantage.

Even if you supported the company previously you are now screwed unless you pay for PoF even if you had no interest in doing so due to lack of interesting content. PoF hands down is a PvE update, not a WvW or a PvP update. The elite specs were designed with a high focus on PvE given their balance.

Know that this pertains to people who arent just f2p but those who bought Core and HoT as well.

I don't see a problem with that. Again, there isn't some reasonable expectation that if you want to be 'even', you pay. That's a well established standard and it's very reasonable. PoF is just a PVE update? That's funny because I see all kinds of people taking advantage of PoF skills, gear prefixes, food, especs, etc ... in WvW. Even if it's not just F2P players ... the statement still stands. If players don't support the game, why should the game accommodate them? If those people don't want to buy PoF, why should they have access to things that are part of PoF, regardless of the game mode? That doesn't make sense. It's their choice and they can always have the option to exercise the choice to adopt it if they are so disadvantaged.

It's not a well established standard because this wasn't a thing until earlier this year. It's also not reasonable of a WvW Mode to have p2w aspects and expect the community to be healthy enough to actually want to support the game.

PoF was actually just a PvE expansion. Was there this huge WvW game changing addition when PoF released? Was there a huge game changing addition with PvP? No. Compare it to WoW's expansions where there's a huge game changing addition to every single mode. The elite specs werent designed for PvP or WvW, they were designed for PvE because no dev in their right mind would think the elite specs were healthy for any sort of PvP on testing and release.

Players can support the game beyond just buying the expansion pack. If the game has a ton of community interaction itl live and give people a better reason to actually purchase what anet has to sell. But if your pushing away your new customers and not giving them an actual reason or chance to try the game without being screwed, why would they want to spend money in the first place? With all these new games coming out its kind of silly to begin designing your content in this way.

[shejesa.3712]

@Aeon.4583 said:

@shejesa.3712 said:So... Just get the mount?That should help with your issue of not having the mount.

No PoF, no mounts.Free accounts can do WvW. Can't unlock Warclaw.

Well, that's a part of the game, if you want to be competitive you're expected to have both expansions.

[Aeon.4583]

@shejesa.3712 said:Well, that's a part of the game, if you want to be competitive you're expected to have both expansions.I see that very differently, even though i have all the expansions.

New player creates free account to try the game. Joins WvW to try it. Unable to fully appretiate WvW, because he\she is unable to get in time to capture objectives and losses some XP because of it. Then player quits WvW, enjoys Open World PvE, Story mode, even PvP maybe, buys Expansions and never returns into WvW because of certain oppression that player felt in the beginning. And so WvW losses a player who could enjoy that mode.

There are two ways to fix this.1 - Allow free accounts to do collection and Unlock Warclaw for WvW only ( it will be locked in PvE until those players will buy expnasion, it is also a good way to plant some interest for new players in mounts, since they can try atleast one before they buy PoF )2 - Passenger seat Mastery. Warclaw is damn big mount. If not allow new players to have Warclaw until they buy PoF, then Veteran players could help them feel comfortable in WvW by taking them as passengers. Passenger seat will be fun for Open World PvE too.

And in honest opinion. I hate words like: they free accounts, they didn't pay, they deserve nothing.Well i think they deserve to atleast try what Expansion buffed game can offer. Not feel opressed by the absence of it.

P.s. Only WvW mode is very dependable on having or not having Mount.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"iKeostuKen.2738" said:The price for entry is not the sameas it's always been.Well I got to admit you are right here.

It's much cheaper now, the "reasonable expansion price" PoF release was fine compared to the mess that was the "full price with GW2 included" HoT where Anet had to give us stuff ingame just to avoid an outrage.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"iKeostuKen.2738" said:The price for entry is not the sameas it's always been.Well I got to admit you

are

right here.

It's much cheaper now, the "reasonable expansion price" PoF release was fine compared to the mess that was the "full price with GW2 included" HoT where Anet had to give us stuff ingame just to avoid an outrage.

Nitpicking as always I see.

[Dhemize.8649]

So hypothetically, if the next expansion came out with something that made the warclaw trash and further distanced older version players, would the same people here want to defend it to the death?

If a completely new person browsed through the expansions and learned that HoT and PoF were completely unnecessary (or downright obsolete) and skipped straight to the last expansion to insta win fights, wouldn't that be bad business? Usually companies want each of their products to sell but doing this method kills previous products. I'm hearing "upgrade or be left behind" as the main defense knowing this burden can further expand again in the future.

[Obtena.7952]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Susy.7529 said:Buy PoF, unlock mount, problem solved.

Why put a price on a dieing mode?So the viewpoint is that everything should be free because you dont like it?

I also think Porsche is a dying brand of cars and they should just give me one for free.

The view point is, why raise your prices when no one is coming to your theme park aside from regulars that are slowly getting bored of the same rides over and over again.

Anet isnt gaining customers with this system, they are slowly losing more, hence the population slowly dwindling in both PvP modes.

Anet isn't raising their prices ... they are keeping them the same for everyone ... it's up to the people to decide if they want to pay.

Don't fearmonger this around the guise of losing customers ... the people we are talking about here haven't paid ANYTHING and aren't even willing to shell out for expansions. These are not 'customers'. If Anet makes things actual customers pay for free to someone that wants to pay nothing, their rewards system will have no integrity. That's a MASSIVE problem as a business.

The price for entry is not the sameas it's always been. Now there is a gate to force people to actually pay in order to be even. Core/Hot Specs could still play and win fights, especially in a zerg/team setting. But adding in mounts has made it even more of a pay your way in to be in on the rising advantage.

Even if you supported the company previously you are now screwed unless you pay for PoF even if you had no interest in doing so due to lack of interesting content. PoF hands down is a PvE update, not a WvW or a PvP update. The elite specs were designed with a high focus on PvE given their balance.

Know that this pertains to people who arent just f2p but those who bought Core and HoT as well.

I don't see a problem with that. Again, there isn't some reasonable expectation that if you want to be 'even', you pay. That's a well established standard and it's very reasonable. PoF is just a PVE update? That's funny because I see all kinds of people taking advantage of PoF skills, gear prefixes, food, especs, etc ... in WvW. Even if it's not just F2P players ... the statement still stands. If players don't support the game, why should the game accommodate them? If those people don't want to buy PoF, why should they have access to things that are part of PoF, regardless of the game mode? That doesn't make sense. It's their choice and they can always have the option to exercise the choice to adopt it if they are so disadvantaged.

It's not a well established standard because this wasn't a thing until earlier this year. It's also not reasonable of a WvW Mode to have p2w aspects and expect the community to be healthy enough to actually want to support the game.

Players can support the game beyond just buying the expansion pack. If the game has a ton of community interaction itl live and give people a better reason to actually purchase what anet has to sell. But if your pushing away your new customers and not giving them an actual reason or chance to try the game without being screwed, why would they want to spend money in the first place? With all these new games coming out its kind of silly to begin designing your content in this way.

That's ridiculous. You pay, you get and it's ALWAYS been that way, in any game mode ... the entitlement to everything is not a sustainable business model. If you don't want to pay for an expansion, you don't get the things that are in it. There isn't any 'spin' here. It's content you pay for and just because you think you can support the game in other ways doesn't mean you are entitled to that paid content or that the game devs should accommodate you to get access to it.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Dhemize.8649" said:So hypothetically, if the next expansion came out with something that made the warclaw trash and further distanced older version players, would the same people here want to defend it to the death?

If a completely new person browsed through the expansions and learned that HoT and PoF were completely unnecessary (or downright obsolete) and skipped straight to the last expansion to insta win fights, wouldn't that be bad business? Usually companies want each of their products to sell but doing this method kills previous products. I'm hearing "upgrade or be left behind" as the main defense knowing this burden can further expand again in the future.Hypotethically, Anet could release EXP for $30 (requires GW2 + possible previous expansions) and a value pack with EXP+HoT+PoF+GW2 for $60 (30+15+15+full for free).

In the imaginary world of speculations imaginary solutions is just as valid as imaginary problems.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Susy.7529 said:Buy PoF, unlock mount, problem solved.

Why put a price on a dieing mode?So the viewpoint is that everything should be free because you dont like it?

I also think Porsche is a dying brand of cars and they should just give me one for free.

The view point is, why raise your prices when no one is coming to your theme park aside from regulars that are slowly getting bored of the same rides over and over again.

Anet isnt gaining customers with this system, they are slowly losing more, hence the population slowly dwindling in both PvP modes.

Anet isn't raising their prices ... they are keeping them the same for everyone ... it's up to the people to decide if they want to pay.

Don't fearmonger this around the guise of losing customers ... the people we are talking about here haven't paid ANYTHING and aren't even willing to shell out for expansions. These are not 'customers'. If Anet makes things actual customers pay for free to someone that wants to pay nothing, their rewards system will have no integrity. That's a MASSIVE problem as a business.

The price for entry is not the sameas it's always been. Now there is a gate to force people to actually pay in order to be even. Core/Hot Specs could still play and win fights, especially in a zerg/team setting. But adding in mounts has made it even more of a pay your way in to be in on the rising advantage.

Even if you supported the company previously you are now screwed unless you pay for PoF even if you had no interest in doing so due to lack of interesting content. PoF hands down is a PvE update, not a WvW or a PvP update. The elite specs were designed with a high focus on PvE given their balance.

Know that this pertains to people who arent just f2p but those who bought Core and HoT as well.

I don't see a problem with that. Again, there isn't some reasonable expectation that if you want to be 'even', you pay. That's a well established standard and it's very reasonable. PoF is just a PVE update? That's funny because I see all kinds of people taking advantage of PoF skills, gear prefixes, food, especs, etc ... in WvW. Even if it's not just F2P players ... the statement still stands. If players don't support the game, why should the game accommodate them? If those people don't want to buy PoF, why should they have access to things that are part of PoF, regardless of the game mode? That doesn't make sense. It's their choice and they can always have the option to exercise the choice to adopt it if they are so disadvantaged.

It's not a well established standard because this wasn't a thing until earlier this year. It's also not reasonable of a WvW Mode to have p2w aspects and expect the community to be healthy enough to actually want to support the game.

Players can support the game beyond just buying the expansion pack. If the game has a ton of community interaction itl live and give people a better reason to actually purchase what anet has to sell. But if your pushing away your new customers and not giving them an actual reason or chance to try the game without being screwed, why would they want to spend money in the first place? With all these new games coming out its kind of silly to begin designing your content in this way.

That's ridiculous. You pay, you get and it's ALWAYS been that way, in any game mode ... the entitlement to everything is not a sustainable business model. If you don't want to pay for an expansion, you don't get the things that are in it. There isn't any 'spin' here. It's content you pay for and just because you think you can support the game in other ways doesn't mean you are entitled to that paid content or that the game devs should accommodate you to get access to it.

Because this business model is working so well for them currently that they didnt just have a massive layoff ?. No no, your way of thinking this is in anyway a healthy business model is truly ridiculous. Warclaw was a update that could have been brought in without any sort of restriction because PoF wasnt the first introduction of a mounted system in this game.

It is due to the constant poor planning of content implementation in anything other that PvE is why the other modes suffer and are in the current predicament.

[Dhemize.8649]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Dhemize.8649" said:So hypothetically, if the next expansion came out with something that made the warclaw trash and further distanced older version players, would the same people here want to defend it to the death?

If a completely new person browsed through the expansions and learned that HoT and PoF were completely unnecessary (or downright obsolete) and skipped straight to the last expansion to insta win fights, wouldn't that be bad business? Usually companies want each of their products to sell but doing this method kills previous products. I'm hearing "upgrade or be left behind" as the main defense knowing this burden can further expand again in the future.Hypotethically, Anet could release EXP for $30 (requires GW2 + possible previous expansions) and a value pack with EXP+HoT+PoF+GW2 for $60 (30+15+15+full for free).

In the imaginary world of speculations imaginary solutions is just as valid as imaginary problems.

Being able to recognize patterns certainly helps live life. Have fun PvD.

[Obtena.7952]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Susy.7529 said:Buy PoF, unlock mount, problem solved.

Why put a price on a dieing mode?So the viewpoint is that everything should be free because you dont like it?

I also think Porsche is a dying brand of cars and they should just give me one for free.

The view point is, why raise your prices when no one is coming to your theme park aside from regulars that are slowly getting bored of the same rides over and over again.

Anet isnt gaining customers with this system, they are slowly losing more, hence the population slowly dwindling in both PvP modes.

Anet isn't raising their prices ... they are keeping them the same for everyone ... it's up to the people to decide if they want to pay.

Don't fearmonger this around the guise of losing customers ... the people we are talking about here haven't paid ANYTHING and aren't even willing to shell out for expansions. These are not 'customers'. If Anet makes things actual customers pay for free to someone that wants to pay nothing, their rewards system will have no integrity. That's a MASSIVE problem as a business.

The price for entry is not the sameas it's always been. Now there is a gate to force people to actually pay in order to be even. Core/Hot Specs could still play and win fights, especially in a zerg/team setting. But adding in mounts has made it even more of a pay your way in to be in on the rising advantage.

Even if you supported the company previously you are now screwed unless you pay for PoF even if you had no interest in doing so due to lack of interesting content. PoF hands down is a PvE update, not a WvW or a PvP update. The elite specs were designed with a high focus on PvE given their balance.

Know that this pertains to people who arent just f2p but those who bought Core and HoT as well.

I don't see a problem with that. Again, there isn't some reasonable expectation that if you want to be 'even', you pay. That's a well established standard and it's very reasonable. PoF is just a PVE update? That's funny because I see all kinds of people taking advantage of PoF skills, gear prefixes, food, especs, etc ... in WvW. Even if it's not just F2P players ... the statement still stands. If players don't support the game, why should the game accommodate them? If those people don't want to buy PoF, why should they have access to things that are part of PoF, regardless of the game mode? That doesn't make sense. It's their choice and they can always have the option to exercise the choice to adopt it if they are so disadvantaged.

It's not a well established standard because this wasn't a thing until earlier this year. It's also not reasonable of a WvW Mode to have p2w aspects and expect the community to be healthy enough to actually want to support the game.

Players can support the game beyond just buying the expansion pack. If the game has a ton of community interaction itl live and give people a better reason to actually purchase what anet has to sell. But if your pushing away your new customers and not giving them an actual reason or chance to try the game without being screwed, why would they want to spend money in the first place? With all these new games coming out its kind of silly to begin designing your content in this way.

That's ridiculous. You pay, you get and it's ALWAYS been that way, in any game mode ... the entitlement to everything is not a sustainable business model. If you don't want to pay for an expansion, you don't get the things that are in it. There isn't any 'spin' here. It's content you pay for and just because you think you can support the game in other ways doesn't mean you are entitled to that paid content or that the game devs should accommodate you to get access to it.

Because this business model is working so well for them currently that they didnt just have a massive layoff ?.

That's an absurd correlation there ... you don't know why those people were laid off and it's not really relevant to the discussion anyways.

It's also absurd to imply we need to throw free content at non-paying players and charge paying players for the same content to make their business model work. I mean, nothing you are going to say is going to convince anyone that their business model is a failure that needs these kinds of dumb ideas to fix it. It's worked for 7 years and based on the fact that they continue to follow it, it's obviously working.

I'm not arguing business with someone that obviously knows so little about it. Giving non-paying people free content that others have paid for is NOT how you build a loyal customer base and a service with integrity. That kind of logic is ridiculous and smacks of entitlement. You want, you pay. If that means you fall behind in competitive content ... too bad.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Obtena.7952 said:

That's an absurd correlation there ... you don't know why those people were laid off.

Obviously due to not generating enough revenue to please the people on top, or even keep a office full of workers.

It's also absurd to imply we need to throw free content at non-paying players and charge paying players for the same content to make their business model work.You do know that lots of people paid way more then just recent PoF adopters to play the base game and even HoT right? Saying that its only non-playing players effected shows how much you obviously dont know about the situation.

I mean, nothing you are going to say is going to convince anyone that their business model is a failure that needs these kinds of dumb ideas to fix it. It's worked for 7 years and based on the fact that they continue to follow it, it's obviously working.

Delusional. If you believe that the current system of WvW is whats keeping this game afloat then you are beyond reasoning with. This game is being carried by its PvE alone.

[Obtena.7952]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

That's an absurd correlation there ... you don't know why those people were laid off.

Obviously due to not generating enough revenue to please the people on top, or even keep a office full of workers.

... and even if that's true (It's irrelevant to argue if it is), it's ridiculous to come to the conclusion that doling out paid content for free to people that don't want to pay is the solution to that.

It's also absurd to imply we need to throw free content at non-paying players and charge paying players for the same content to make their business model work.You do know that lots of people paid way more then just recent PoF adopters to play the base game and even HoT right? Saying that its only non-playing players effected shows how much you obviously dont know about the situation.

I mean, nothing you are going to say is going to convince anyone that their business model is a failure that needs these kinds of dumb ideas to fix it. It's worked for 7 years and based on the fact that they continue to follow it, it's obviously working.

Delusional. If you believe that the current system of WvW is whats keeping this game afloat then you are beyond reasoning with. This game is being carried by its PvE alone.

I never made ANY claim that the current WvW system is what is keep this game afloat ... now your just inventing things I never said. Besides ... if WvW isn't important enough a game mode to keep this game afloat, why in the hell would anyone make paid PVE content free to players that don't want to pay to enable WvW players like you are suggesting? That would be dumb.

It's complete nonsense to conclude Anet needs to make paid content free for people that want it because they have a failing business model. You need to take a step back here.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

That's an absurd correlation there ... you don't know why those people were laid off.

Obviously due to not generating enough revenue to please the people on top, or even keep a office full of workers.

... and even if that's true (It's irrelevant to argue if it is), it's ridiculous to come to the conclusion that doling out paid content for free to people that don't want to pay is the solution to that.

The solution is to bring new players in to the game and persuade them to spend money. If your mode is garbage, why would they want to spend money on a feature to even give the garbage a chance? Lost revenue and useless labor.

It's also absurd to imply we need to throw free content at non-paying players and charge paying players for the same content to make their business model work.You do know that lots of people paid way more then just recent PoF adopters to play the base game and even HoT right? Saying that its only non-playing players effected shows how much you obviously dont know about the situation.

I mean, nothing you are going to say is going to convince anyone that their business model is a failure that needs these kinds of dumb ideas to fix it. It's worked for 7 years and based on the fact that they continue to follow it, it's obviously working.

Delusional. If you believe that the current system of WvW is whats keeping this game afloat then you are beyond reasoning with. This game is being carried by its PvE alone.

I never made ANY claim that the current WvW system is what is keep this game afloat ... now your just inventing things I never said. Besides ... if WvW isn't important enough a game mode to keep this game afloat, why in the hell would anyone make paid PVE content free to players that don't want to pay to enable WvW players like you are suggesting? That would be dumb.

??? Who said anything about free PvE content? You do know this is a WvW issue right? No one was ever asking for free PvE content in any of this discussion. If anything about cash games has shown anything, its that if there is a large population of players, players will whale the cash shop to look cool to impress other players. Evidence shows that these actually make a company way more money. So im not sure how what im suggesting is dumb.

It's complete nonsense to conclude Anet needs to make paid content free for people that want it because they have a failing business model. You need to take a step back here.

Actually its Anet that needs to take a step back here. Rethink the model of business, refocus their design of WvW and PvP in general, and understand that they have to stop listening to people like you who continuously carry this game into the ground. Seriously, is the way you think currently helping Anet out in any way? Where has the current business model been leading them? Has the population increased? Has PvP somehow magically become a populated game mode? Has WvW received any amazing updates that bring players to their game?

[Dawdler.8521]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Has WvW received any amazing updates that bring players to their game?What, you mean like mounts?

[Obtena.7952]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

That's an absurd correlation there ... you don't know why those people were laid off.

Obviously due to not generating enough revenue to please the people on top, or even keep a office full of workers.

... and even if that's true (It's irrelevant to argue if it is), it's ridiculous to come to the conclusion that doling out paid content for free to people that don't want to pay is the solution to that.

The solution is to bring new players in to the game and persuade them to spend money. If your mode is garbage, why would they want to spend money on a feature to even give the garbage a chance? Lost revenue and useless labor.

That has nothing to do with what we are talking about specifically in this thread. The fact is that if I can get mounts in WvW without purchasing PoF ... where is the persuasion to spend the money? You just gave it away! What you are saying makes no sense in this case. If the content of PoF isn't enough to get people to pay for it, then it's reasonable that the requirement to 'be even' in competitive modes does.

It's also absurd to imply we need to throw free content at non-paying players and charge paying players for the same content to make their business model work.You do know that lots of people paid way more then just recent PoF adopters to play the base game and even HoT right? Saying that its only non-playing players effected shows how much you obviously dont know about the situation.

I mean, nothing you are going to say is going to convince anyone that their business model is a failure that needs these kinds of dumb ideas to fix it. It's worked for 7 years and based on the fact that they continue to follow it, it's obviously working.

Delusional. If you believe that the current system of WvW is whats keeping this game afloat then you are beyond reasoning with. This game is being carried by its PvE alone.

I never made ANY claim that the current WvW system is what is keep this game afloat ... now your just inventing things I never said. Besides ... if WvW isn't important enough a game mode to keep this game afloat, why in the hell would anyone make paid PVE content free to players that don't want to pay to enable WvW players like you are suggesting? That would be dumb.

??? Who said anything about free PvE content?

Well, let me be more clear, that's what I am talking about ... so I can only assume if you are replying to me, you aren't having your own conversation about something else. We are talking about mounts that require PoF to obtain ... and how people think you should be able to have them without it. That IS talking about free PVE content. But of course, if you don't think we are talking about easy mounts for people that don't have expansions, feel free to redirect the conversation and I will decide if I want to reply to you.

It's complete nonsense to conclude Anet needs to make paid content free for people that want it because they have a failing business model. You need to take a step back here.

Actually its Anet that needs to take a step back here.

I don't get it ... this kind of statement implies you know more about the state of Anet's business than they do. I'm pretty sure that's not true. Without question, catering to free or thrifty players with free paid content isn't the answer to Anet solving whatever business model problem you are imagining they are having.