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Question: which is best for meta?

pinguadoido.6581
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pinguadoido.6581

pinguadoido.6581

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I am a T4 enthusiast and do them everyday. Been doing with Power Reaper since the major buff it received on last patch, and have always managed to keep the top DPS with pretty good sustain. I changed back to my weaver and my DPS meter is almost the same, unfortunately with MUCH more effort because of the rotation, and a LOT more squishy.Considering that currently both classes do not provide boons for the party and are merely DPS oriented, which one should I focus to play the meta? I am inclined to stay on power reaper due it's MUCH better sustainability.

Appreciate any responses in advance!

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LadyKitty.6120

LadyKitty.6120

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To play in meta-style in fractals, squad needs to have very strong burst to phase/kill bosses before they can do anything dangerous. And doing that usually requires a skilled static to fractal with. If squad doesn't have that dps due to bad support/dpsers, reaper should perform better due to superior sustain with Soul Eater as it can often dps through the mechanics while weaver needs to be very careful to avoid strong hits.

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Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

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DT has power reaper benching 29k (small hitboxes) and power weaver at 35k (large). For "just get in done" PUGging, the difference is less important than the baseline: either gets the job done. For CM speed clear, that 20% is massive.

So among friends, I'd recommend you stick with weaver; your partners will notice the difference, even if they don't realize it enough to appreciate it. In PUGs, the reaper has a lot of advantages.

To play in meta-style in fractals,I'm not sure that there's a current consensus on what that means. DT has seven builds they list as 'meta', five as 'great', and another three as merely 'good'.

Then there's the problem that no one really agrees on what "meta" means. Some people use its historical meaning of "what everyone uses" and treat it as synonymous with "optimal." So it's better to be specific about which (if either) of those is appropriate.

And finally, there's the question of "for whom?" What's "meta" (in any sense of the word) varies with context, as it's one thing in PUGs, another for statics, and another pair depending on whether it's CM or non-CM oriented. Is the group "chill" or focused on speed?

And that's without considering anyone's preconceptions, which (from various threads we see on Reddit and here) seem to be widespread.

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Cyninja.2954

Cyninja.2954

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Reaper: anything with PUGs because it is just retarded overpowered in all areas and functions as a mini guardian,just slightly worse utility wise. Projectile destruction, check. Boon removal, check. Stability, check. Good dps with upfront burst, check. Great cc bar damage, check. Insane baseline sustain, check. Can switch to retard proof condi scourge with the most overpowered damage skill in game (Epidemic) for things like Siren's Reef, check.

Dragonhunter: anything semi organized or slightly more challenge. Similar to reaper just better burst, better or similar utility (minus the boon removal).

Weaver: static groups and near perfect play. It has nearly no utility, relies a lot on other classes support and player skill and rewards best dps for fractals.

Warrior: not as required as before. Great cc, boon removal (if required) and damage as well as banners. Can be replaced by a dps with equal or slightly worse cc.

Soulbeast: great for dps and those Firebrigade groups. Works a bit worse in druid+chrono comps due to redundance. Insane burst, great part dps increase, low cc.

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LadyKitty.6120

LadyKitty.6120

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@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:DT has power reaper benching 29k (small hitboxes) and power weaver at 35k (large). For "just get in done" PUGging, the difference is less important than the baseline: either gets the job done. For CM speed clear, that 20% is massive.

So among friends, I'd recommend you stick with weaver; your partners will notice the difference, even if they don't realize it enough to appreciate it. In PUGs, the reaper has a lot of advantages.

To play in meta-style in fractals,I'm not sure that there's a current consensus on what that means.
has seven builds they list as 'meta', five as 'great', and another three as merely 'good'.

Then there's the problem that no one really agrees on what "meta" means. Some people use its historical meaning of "what everyone uses" and treat it as synonymous with "optimal." So it's better to be specific about which (if either) of those is appropriate.

And finally, there's the question of "for whom?" What's "meta" (in any sense of the word) varies with context, as it's one thing in PUGs, another for statics, and another pair depending on whether it's CM or non-CM oriented. Is the group "chill" or focused on speed?

And that's without considering anyone's preconceptions, which (from various threads we see on Reddit and here) seem to be widespread.

META is usually used as acronym for "Most Efficient Tactic Available" and thus is usually used for optimized speedclear comps and builds, at least in raid scene. To the point that majority of raid players only acknowledge the speed aspect and don't even consider the safety aspect (though ensuring the kill should be the PUG meta but ppls...)Probably everyone knows that acronym already but Kitty specified. And though META and what everyone runs were almost synonymous some time ago, they're not anymore as META has changed but lots of raiders (and PUGmanders) are still sticking to old, outdated metacomps.

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BRNBRITO.9624

BRNBRITO.9624

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If you're always pugging then i'd likely stick to Reaper, and maybe try a different dps if you feel like switching sometimes.

Played Reaper for 1-2 months and swapped to Soulbeast and honestly on pug parties there's close to no difference on dps, Reaper feels a lot better when you have bad supports. When filling for statics/semi-statics where people actually insta-CC every single bar then yeah Soulbeast bursts higher and helps with spirit/stance share.

I wouldn't go by benchmark only as someone said above, specially considering most or at least a bunch of bosses are small hitbox, phase times/party dps matters more on class choice so you can sync your burst better IMO (mostly for MAMA/Siax).

Also i believe Reaper is benching around 31-32k and Weaver is around 34k right now, Reaper can also use Lich Form on some bosses to get higher burst, stack more AR for pot conversion etc.

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Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

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@"LadyKitty.6120" said:META is usually used as acronym for "Most Efficient Tactic Available"Actually, no. That's a "backronym," an abbreviation invented after the word was in use.

The original meaning comes from the psychological part of gaming: everyone runs rock because who doesn't like smashy-smashy. Then someone realizes that if everyone is running rock, Paper will be OP'd... and now Paper dominates. Then scissors.

Playing the build is "the game;" trying to stay ahead of the builds everyone is using is the "game beyond the game" or "meta game" for short.

Over time, the term came to mean "what everyone is running" rather than the original meaning. As the term entered the language for PvE, it started out meaning "what everyone runs" and slowly evolved into "what everyone should run because it's optimal," i.e. "most efficient tactic available."

Regardless of the history of the term, my key point is that there is no generally agreed upon definition. Different people use the term differently.

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melandru.3876

melandru.3876

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reaper for randoms, you hardly need othersweaver without randoms, you do need others

in perfect conditions, weaver/dh still the 2 best dps picks

the current meta comp is not without reason weaver, rene, qfb, war and slbdamage report 100cm first boss yesterday (frailty and we bleed fire)https://dps.report/Slp5-20190518-215333_skor

video report, 100cm second boss also yesterday (frailty and we bleed fire)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFHQn7Y79mQas you can see, damage only comp (no healer needed) with a weaver, is beyond broken

weaver, only bested by the best of the best power chronos/dh's

i personally received training from 2 of those 5, so i take their words above most others as i know what they are capable off, and i know they have their opinions backed up by results

you probably ask "why is this relevant?" i did mention frailty twice now, didn't i?

both qfb and weaver had 8k health. we bleed fire (if it hits) does 6k dmg.this means near a 1 shott on those 2 characters, right?

that would happen in bad groups, no doubt.here? they hardly take any incomming damage.

mechanics, and positioning is the best "babysitter" there is

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Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

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Do not ask what you can do for meta. Ask what meta can do for you. Basically, do not pick "the best" build just because someone says you should always run best - look at all the "good" builds, and pick the one you will like the most. In your case, if you feel so much more comfortable on reaper, stay on it. It's good enough - and you won't have to depend on others for survival.

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Asum.4960

Asum.4960

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Unless you have a static with a good support I would just stick with your Reaper, especially if it's more fun for you and you get about the same results.

Just like with the no heal comp, there is really no need to push yourself that much for extremely minor timegains in the grand scheme when it comes to daily clears, unless that's precisely what you enjoy doing with the content.

Alternatively give DH a shot, as it kind of is a mix between the two with more utility than both and higher burst sustain than even Reaper in the short moments you usually actually need it with Litany of Wrath.The addpull of GS5 and capability to bring reflects, directional block and aegis is especially useful.

Don't feel too pressured by the "META". Effort you have to put in is usually something that's overlooked, even if the gains with sometimes vastly more effort are extremely marginal to a point where it only makes sense on a DPS golem to reach maximum performance, or to show off in a YT video or something, not for smooth daily clears.

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melandru.3876

melandru.3876

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@"pinguadoido.6581" said:Thank you all for sharing your opinions, personal experience and what not. This has been very helpful. I will probably stick with reaper a lil more then, I just finished Frostfang so it will be a good choice to show it off as well lol.

frostfang would be good on firebrand!

does firebrand have utility? yes it hasdoes firebrand have good dps? well it sits at 22k which is 7k below reaper, but a firebrand carries a group harder

take a look at this https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/guardian/firebrand/power%20quickness/and if your group does not need the support (another firebrand, or a chronomancer) you can just switch to dragonhunter as it uses the exact same gear even the rotations have alot in common

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BRNBRITO.9624

BRNBRITO.9624

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"BRNBRITO.9624" said:No idea where people are getting 29k from Reaper benchmark, maybe checking 1 year old videos?

"good build" at the bottom, from 5 months ago

"Published on Dec 20, 2018"

It's just outdated, as posted above Reaper CURRENTLY is around 31.5-32.5k and current Weaver bench is 34k~, Reaper went up and Weaver went down, so the difference is not as big as it used to be.Also remember Reaper uses small hitbox while Weaver uses large, and there's many bosses with small hitbox (he's asking about fractals only), on pugs you'll have better dps/survivability/utility on Reaper most of the time.

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Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

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@BRNBRITO.9624 said:

@BRNBRITO.9624 said:No idea where people are getting 29k from Reaper benchmark, maybe checking 1 year old videos?

"good build" at the bottom, from 5 months ago

"Published on Dec 20, 2018"

It's just outdated, as posted above Reaper CURRENTLY is around 31.5-32.5k and current Weaver bench is 34k~, Reaper went up and Weaver went down, so the difference is not as big as it used to be.Also remember Reaper uses small hitbox while Weaver uses large, and there's many bosses with small hitbox (he's asking about fractals only), on pugs you'll have better dps/survivability/utility on Reaper most of the time.

5 months is not "just as outdated" as 12 months. And best as I can tell, there are no more recent fractal-oriented benchmarks for Reaper.

In any case, if you read above, you'll see that people, including myself, aren't dissing Reaper. Many of us have said it's a fine choice. In my strong opinion, even 29k vs 35k isn't a strong enough reason except in situations in which every point counts, and there just aren't many of those. And in situations in which every point counts, 32k vs 34k matters, depending on how well the person plays.

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BRNBRITO.9624

BRNBRITO.9624

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It really isn't as outdated but it's just not up-to-date with current balance patches is what i mean, stuff changed a bit since then, afaik there aren't 'fractal oriented benchmarks' as people are just pushing for highest dmg on golem/highest dmg rotation on a sandbag, and on fractals you have to adjust your rotation/cd's to the breakbar/party cc speed most of the time, and maybe utilities/traits depending on instabs.

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Nephalem.8921

Nephalem.8921

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"BRNBRITO.9624" said:No idea where people are getting 29k from Reaper benchmark, maybe checking 1 year old videos?

"good build" at the bottom, from 5 months ago

Wasn't that from before the reaper buffs? There was a buff happening 2 months ago, adding another 10% modifier with almost no downside in fractals. Some of the dT guides are outdated like the revenant one.

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phs.6089

phs.6089

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@Nephalem.8921 said:

@"BRNBRITO.9624" said:No idea where people are getting 29k from Reaper benchmark, maybe checking 1 year old videos?

"good build" at the bottom, from 5 months ago

Wasn't that from before the reaper buffs? There was a buff happening 2 months ago, adding another 10% modifier with almost no downside in fractals. Some of the dT guides are outdated like the revenant one.

It is from before the Soul Eater rework, that got reaper 10% damage and real lifesteal.If you check reaper traits, it still on decimate defenses setup. Meaning it hasn't been updated and tested by discretize team.

https://imgur.com/a/NhxEP9d

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