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LI > LD Removal - Updates?


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Hi,

You not so kindly removed my post in the other thread and gave me a warning. I think you are a bit over-zealous in your responses. It's akin to shutting down any dissenting opinion. Since that comment can no longer get a reply, I will post my question here.

What is the status of the change? When are you going to add the exchange back in? How long will it be available for? Thank you in advance.

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@Roquen.5406 said:Hi,

You not so kindly removed my post in the other thread and gave me a warning. I think you are a bit over-zealous in your responses. It's akin to shutting down any dissenting opinion. Since that comment can no longer get a reply, I will post my question here.

What is the status of the change? When are you going to add the exchange back in? How long will it be available for? Thank you in advance.

I don't want to be alarmist, but I'm afraid they will bring the exchange back in the moment they will bring back the exchange of Badge of Honor for Gift of Battle in WvW.

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@Cristalyan.5728 said:

I don't want to be alarmist, but I'm afraid they will bring the exchange back in the moment they will bring back the exchange of Badge of Honor for Gift of Battle in WvW.

It is not the same since for the gift of battle we were told that the exchange was going to be removed and not coming back. With the LI to LD the exchange was removed without telling anyone and now we have been told that it will come back temporarily.

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They will probably want to wait it out as long as possible, and then suddenly enable it back for a very short time, so many people interested in it will miss it. Honestly, they clearly do not want (for some reason they haven't explained, but what is probably associated with low population of PoF wings) people exchanging LIs for LDs. If they didn't feel disabling it was really important, they would not think of going back on a clearly made promise (and if they forgot about the promise, they would have simply enabled it back, without the "temporarily" added in).As such, i doubt they would want to make it easy for us to make use of the exchange. That would go against the reason why they disabled it in the first place.

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We have to take into account that some people may have spent their LI in legendary armor. Therefore, if they add the exchange soon, people with only a few LI won't be able to farm many. Since, it seems that they think the less people use the exchange the better, I think they will add it soon. Maybe as a part of the 2 weeks of Dragon Bash.

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@"Astralporing.1957" said:They will probably want to wait it out as long as possible, and then suddenly enable it back for a very short time, so many people interested in it will miss it. Honestly, they clearly do not want (for some reason they haven't explained, but what is probably associated with low population of PoF wings) people exchanging LIs for LDs. If they didn't feel disabling it was really important, they would not think of going back on a clearly made promise (and if they forgot about the promise, they would have simply enabled it back, without the "temporarily" added in).As such, i doubt they would want to make it easy for us to make use of the exchange. That would go against the reason why they disabled it in the first place.

Unfortunately, this is what I believe too. I have no idea why they do this. As to me it seems to break faith with their playerbase...but someone somewhere decided this is the "right" thing to do. Which once again is weird to me, the only people that lost out this time are those that took Anet for their word. From this I personally gather that I can no longer trust what they say, since they can go back on it at any time without any notice.

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@Talindra.4958 said:Dev already mentioned they will bring it back temporary. All you need to do is sit back relax and wait. :)Im sure you can do tht.

The Dev said this:

@Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:After talking to the team, we want to make clear that we intended to communicate this change before the update so that the community is aware. Unfortunately this didn’t happen and we apologize for this miscommunication.

The team is now looking into temporarily bringing back this conversion option via the vendor. This functionality will be brought back in a future planned build and we will tell you ahead of time when it will be removed.

That is the part that is worrying people. It is very vague and could mean a year from now, at which point the conversion would be worthless. Once again, it's the lack of communication here that caused an issue in the first place. There was never any legitimate reason to remove the exchange. It also went against their statement that the exchange is not limited in time but quantity.

There's a bigger issue here in that it sets a precedent for not trusting Anet.

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Wow, it sounds like that is such a major issue although it's not. =)

Lack of communication? Yes, but nothing new if you have played the game since release. Even after the recent layoffs communication only became better punctually because they had to do this to not lose a big chunk of their player base.Veterans know about the situation: You get things in GW2 when they are done and implemented into the game. Fixes can take up to months till they are realized. Is it a problem? No, just if you make it one to yourself. As Talindra said: Relax and wait. It's a game not a job.

At the moment players can earn 10 divinations per week so if somebody has 0 LD today he only needs 15 weeks of full clearing to get the 150 for Coalescence. Most of the raiders already swim in LDs anyways so I'm sure their metrics show that there is an issue to some people but not a one with a high priority.According to the past it's not useful to bump posts every day/week. It's done when it's done and you do yourself a favor --> Your own nerves and maybe your ability to post in the forums ("removed my post in the other thread and gave me a warning").

The best is to come back in a month if things haven't changed and ask again politely.

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@Vinceman.4572 said:At the moment players can earn 10 divinations per week so if somebody has 0 LD today he only needs 15 weeks of full clearing to get the 150 for Coalescence.

Not all people can or want to get 10LD/week. Moreover, many people who are writing had enough LD with the exchange, so telling to farm more LD is like saying that all the work they did getting the LI for the ring does worth nothing. People deserve the exchange without being asked to farm more LD if they already had enough.

@Vinceman.4572 said:

According to the past it's not useful to bump posts every day/week. It's done when it's done and you do yourself a favor

I disagree with you. If people hadn’t posted in reddit/forum we wouldn’t have got anything. And now that we have got an answer, it is a matter of when we will have the exchange back. If people write here asking when, it shows to the developers that we are interested in this feature and that we are waiting. When the developers have to choose between bringing this back and solving another bug, because they can’t do all at the same time, they can give priority at something that many people are asking. What is more important? They have to make that choice every time they solve something. Therefore, it is not bad to show that we are interested in this so they don’t forget that we are here waiting.

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@Robles.7458 said:Not all people can or want to get 10LD/week. Moreover, many people who are writing had enough LD with the exchange, so telling to farm more LD is like saying that all the work they did getting the LI for the ring does worth nothing. People deserve the exchange without being asked to farm more LD if they already had enough.

You don't need to be done in 15 weeks. They won't shut down the servers that fast.Also I disagree they deserve nothing. They had an option. Anet deleted this option due to reasons they haven't told us yet. Maybe they never will. Not a huge issue at all because we can still farm those 150 LD + they told us they will give the option back.

I disagree with you. If people hadn’t posted in reddit/forum we wouldn’t have got anything. And now that we have got an answer, it is a matter of when we will have the exchange back. If people write here asking when, it shows to the developers that we are interested in this feature and that we are waiting. When the developers have to choose between bringing this back and solving another bug, because they can’t do all at the same time, they can give priority at something that many people are asking. What is more important? They have to make that choice every time they solve something. Therefore, it is not bad to show that we are interested in this so they don’t forget that we are here waiting.

Wrong train of thought. It's ok to make a post and get people together - totally fine. But they already answered and adressed that they'll work on a fix/change. Daily bumping is just ridiculous for such a minor thing. And not managing to exchange LI --> LD definitely is a minor issue compared to bugs. So, it's more than just my hope that this little problem doesn't have a higher priority over bugfixing since players are not excluded from anything.I can feel with you, you cannot brag with your new ring (probably together with Vision + Aurora) at the moment. What a pity. ^^

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@Vinceman.4572 said:And not managing to exchange LI --> LD definitely is a minor issue compared to bugs.

For many this is not a minor bug, that’s why posts are happening daily. When LI exchange was removed Anet developers lost all the trust many of us had in them (maybe due to a mistake, but it happened, nevertheless) and the only way to repair it is to bring the exchange back. You are asking people to trust in some words about a future update so people stop writing. And I think we all want to trust, but right now, it's not easy, not when we have seen what happens to words.

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@"Vinceman.4572" said:You don't need to be done in 15 weeks. They won't shut down the servers that fast.Also I disagree they deserve nothing. They had an option. Anet deleted this option due to reasons they haven't told us yet. Maybe they never will. Not a huge issue at all because we can still farm those 150 LD + they told us they will give the option back.

Wrong train of thought. It's ok to make a post and get people together - totally fine. But they already answered and adressed that they'll work on a fix/change. Daily bumping is just ridiculous for such a minor thing. And not managing to exchange LI --> LD definitely is a minor issue compared to bugs. So, it's more than just my hope that this little problem doesn't have a higher priority over bugfixing since players are not excluded from anything.I can feel with you, you cannot brag with your new ring (probably together with Vision + Aurora) at the moment. What a pity. ^^

See I don't understand your viewpoint. This is such a simple fix. They already had the code in there...they went ahead and "removed" it. Which unless I'm mistaken could mean that they just made the line of code inactive, rather than actually deleting it. They also have the reverse code in there currently LD > LI. Also, since this was a recent change the person(s) that worked on it still have it fresh in their mind, making it even easier to go back and adjust. In the grand scheme of things this is such a simple fix, the only thing they need to be careful with is that they don't mess things up when putting it back in. That's where the testing would come in. You act as if this is a huge undertaking...

We've already waited what, a year now since the precursor was first introduced. Now for some odd reason those that trusted Anet's word, have to wait almost another 4 months just because they decided for some unknown reason to pull it? That makes no sense.

And I personally don't want Coalescence to "Show Off", I want it for the stat swap and because I like how it looks. Me having it now after waiting this long does not take away from you at all, so not sure why you are opposed.

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@Vinceman.4572 said:Wow, it sounds like that is such a major issue although it's not. =)

Lack of communication? Yes, but nothing new if you have played the game since release.

Are you defending something like that? It is not a minior thing if YOU dont care about it. This is something that effect the enjoyment of people who love this game and it should get adressed with every communication possible.

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@Robles.7458 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:And not managing to exchange LI --> LD definitely
is
a minor issue compared to bugs.

For many this is not a minor bug, that’s why posts are happening daily. When LI exchange was removed Anet developers lost all the trust many of us had in them (maybe due to a mistake, but it happened, nevertheless) and the only way to repair it is to bring the exchange back. You are asking people to trust in some words about a future update so people stop writing. And I think we all want to trust, but right now, it's not easy, not when we have seen what happens to words.

I don't have trust in Anet. I just know from the past how things are evolving here in this game. There's no need to panic about an online item. See, it definitely is a minor bug because we are talking about a trinket of which you had the right one before due to already raiding. The leggy thingy only gives you the stat swapping advantage and the shiny outfit.The fact that you are barking so loud is obvious: You cannot show the shiny to others and some of those were more clever and/or diligent than you. And I repeat myself, they addressed it. A fix/change will come soon so they will take care and according to the statement it's not that you have to wait for months, maybe just weeks. That's totally fine.

@Chelu.2095 said:Are you defending something like that? It is not a minior thing if YOU dont care about it. This is something that effect the enjoyment of people who love this game and it should get adressed with every communication possible.

I defended Anet rarely but complained about a lot in the past. Here in this forum and in the german one.This here is different. If you read the passage above maybe you'll understand, maybe you won't. Having real bugs in the game is a major issue. Not being able to craft a leggy thing due to an event bugging out is a major issue. Having server crashes is a major issue. Not having the currency to craft an item while you can (easily - depending on your skill) farm it via playing but cannot exchange from another one IS NOT a major issue. Is it ok that they reverted the change? No, not at all. Is it a problem? No, not at all either because you can go ahead and play this game + still succeed or you just wait for the fix/chang which will come soon. Really no reason to rant or in case of the OP get a warning via forum mods. ^^

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just ignore that guys who keep saying remove LI>LD is not a fault. Keep warning to anet and let them return it quickly. It's anet responsibility to return it. They should notice to everyone if they want to remove it. And now they don't did it. I don't care what another people say. Just know it if they don't return it, i will quit this fucking game. I will wait until dragon bash patch, just don't want to play the game which will deceive players and failure to keep promises.

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@Vinceman.4572 said:Having real bugs in the game is a major issue. Not being able to craft a leggy thing due to an event bugging out is a major issue. Having server crashes is a major issue. Not having the currency to craft an item while you can (easily - depending on your skill) farm it via playing but cannot exchange from another one IS NOT a major issue.True. On the other hand, devs breaking trust without any sensible explanation is also a major issue. It was not something critical to the game (or at least i don't think so - and if it was, they certainly didn't say so), something they just had to change. And it was something they promised to not do before. So, the devs apparently thought that it was worth sacrificing trust with the player community for something relatively trivial. And when they got called on it, they are unwilling to fully revert the change.That is anything but minor.

Compared to that, the exchange itself is trivial.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:Having real bugs in the game is a major issue. Not being able to craft a leggy thing due to an event bugging out is a major issue. Having server crashes is a major issue. Not having the currency to craft an item while you can (easily - depending on your skill) farm it via playing but cannot exchange from another one IS NOT a major issue.True. On the other hand, devs breaking trust without any sensible explanation is
also
a major issue. It was not something critical to the game (or at least i don't think so - and if it was, they certainly didn't say so), something they just
had
to change. And it was something they promised to not do before. So, the devs apparently thought that it was worth sacrificing trust with the player community for something relatively trivial. And when they got called on it, they are unwilling to fully revert the change.That is anything but minor.

Compared to that, the exchange itself is trivial.

Given that the exchange was hilariously generous:

the ability to exchange 168+ LI into LD for simply killing 1 boss before the change date was way over the top. Yes, that was the true maximum a player could have gained in LD up to that point in time. The chance is high of players at that cap (who are the only ones who should complain) to have continued raiding for a while and would be close to the required LD or way above it (I myself was not very active when the exchange was added, and am at over 200 LD without exchanging more than 3 LI).

Here is the very sad reality:The vast majority of players who want the exchange so badly are stocked up on easy LI and have been inactive on wings 5+6 for a vast majority of the time since LD were introduced and have likely at most cleared a few bosses a couple of times at best (knowing they could simply exchange LI into LD if required, but not clearing any content which provided LD). Those same players are now complaining because they would rather get the required LD with exchanging their easy gained LI into LD instead of actually clearing the content required a certain amount of times (because If you were clearing this content, you'd be rich on LD given how the maximum LDs is at 454, which is over 250 LD beyond the exchanged amount).

Now I do agree that it is a breach of trust to go back on a word given, and I have said so in this thread. I absolutely disagree with this action.

Yet, I have to wonder how many of these so vocal players here simply fear that they might actually have to play the required content because they can't skip it thanks to an overgenerous exchange.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:Yet, I have to wonder how many of these so vocal players here simply fear that they might actually have to play the required content because they can't skip it thanks to an overgenerous exchange.

Problem is that we have been 2 years waiting for the ring. In the last 8 months of these 2 years LD appeared and players who were farming had the possibility to choose what to do, w1-4 or w5-6. The option of w1-w4 was better, LI were more useful, you could get more faster and you could exchange them, so many players farmed those wings for months.

Players could choose how to farm for the ring, they had freedom in that and they were 8 months farming. Now the exchange is removed but players have already been at least 8 months (maybe even more, since we have been 2 years with the ring) faming LI thinking that it was the same than a LD because they were told that.

Now people say that players don’t want to farm w5-w7 and why should they farm it now? They were farming their LI for at least 8 months because they were told that the exchange would be a possibility. Nobody is asking for a free legendary ring (we all have to do w5-7), but it is not players fault if they are given different options to farm the ring.

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@Robles.7458 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Yet, I have to wonder how many of these so vocal players here simply fear that they might actually have to play the required content because they can't skip it thanks to an overgenerous exchange.

Problem is that we have been 2 years waiting for the ring. In the last 8 months of these 2 years LD appeared and players who were farming had the possibility to choose what to do, w1-4 or w5-6. The option of w1-w4 was better, LI were more useful, you could get more faster and you could exchange them, so many players farmed those wings for months.

So you skipped 2 years of wing 5+6. Wasn't that what I just said? So you actually did NOT play the content required to have the materials for the ring banking on the ability to exchange LI into LD from W1-4.

@Robles.7458 said:Players could choose how to farm for the ring, they had freedom in that and they were 8 months farming. Now the exchange is removed but players have already been at least 8 months (maybe even more, since we have been 2 years with the ring) faming LI thinking that it was the same than a LD because they were told that.

Most players who have the 150+ LD for the ring and who did not exchange, did the content required. Most player who exchanged and did the content required are sitting on 350-450 LD.

The only players who have a right to complain are raiders who did a lot of raiding of wing 5, completely quit shortly after LD were introduced without exchanging their LI and are now back. I'd wager the actual amount of these players is insignificantly small.

@Robles.7458 said:Now people say that players don’t want to farm w5-w7 and why should they farm it now? They were farming their LI for at least 8 months because they were told that the exchange would be a possibility. Nobody is asking for a free legendary ring (we all have to do w5-7), but it is not players fault if they are given different options to farm the ring.

You were not intended to farm LI. The ring is a reward for wing 5-7. The exchange of LI into LD was only to compensate players who were doing wing 5 for 1 year and had a theoretical maximum of 172 LI which could have been LD. If you farmed LI but refused to exchange them hoping you don't have to do wing 5-7, you have almost no ground to stand on to complain besides the fact that Anet went back on their word. You did NOT do the content required.

To then get this worked up over not getting rewards which you should not be entitled to in the first place is embarassing.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

So you skipped 2 years of wing 5+6. Wasn't that what I just said? So you actually did NOT play the cotnent required to have the materials for the ring banking on the ability to exchange LI into LD from W1-4.

First the ring is a reward for W5-W7 and you know what? We have been more time with bosses giving LI in w5-w8 that we have been with LD ( more than 1 year giving each week LI). So, are you telling me that I skipped 2 years of w5 cleaning? When I was 1 year getting LI in that wing,xD.

You were not intended to farm LI. The ring is a reward for wing 5-7. The exchange of LI into LD was only to compensate players who were doing wing 5 for 1 year and had a theoretical maximum of 172 LI which could have been LD. If you farmed LI but refused to exchange them hoping you don't have to do wing 5-7, you have almost no ground to stand on to complain besides the fact that Anet went back on their word. You did NOT do the content required.To then get this worked up over not getting rewards which you should not be entitled to in the first place is embarassing.

Ohh but there is a problem here. I had spent my 750LI in 3 legendary sets, so I needed to farm more for the ring. I didn't have my w5 LI of 1 year farming it (all spent). So I had to farm LI or LD again. Remember that a developer told us that you could spend your LI and then after farming more LI use the exchange in some months.

It is not players fault if this was done incorrectly. And second, when the exchange was introduced with the rules we were told, we were supposed to farm the ring as we wanted because we are free and we were given 2 options that you can like or not.

You can say that you don't like how I farmed the ring, but did I farm for it? Yes. Was I told that my LI farm was the same than a LD farm? Yes. It is my fault for choosing how to farm it when I am given freedom? No. Do you like how the exchange was done? No. Then your problem is with the developers, not with the people as me who trusted in which we were told and farmed according with that.

Players didn't add LD 1 year later, players didn't add the exchange and didn't break the word given, so I can't really understand how you can have a problem with the people who used their freedom to farm the ring.

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@Robles.7458 said:

So you skipped 2 years of wing 5+6. Wasn't that what I just said? So you actually did NOT play the cotnent required to have the materials for the ring banking on the ability to exchange LI into LD from W1-4.

First the ring is a reward for W5-W7 and you know what? We have been more time with bosses giving LI in w5-w8 that we have been with LD ( more than 1 year giving each week LI). So, are you telling me that I skipped 2 years of w5 cleaning? When I was 1 year getting LI in that wing,xD.

Untrue, the maximum amount of LD available when LD were introduced was 172 (hence the maximum exchange). The current maximum is now 454, do the math.

No, in your case I'm quite sure you did some wing 5 kills, then stuck to wing 1-4 and didn't bother with wing 5+6 at all or at most for one time clears. How close am I?

You were not intended to farm LI. The ring is a reward for wing 5-7. The exchange of LI into LD was only to compensate players who were doing wing 5 for 1 year and had a theoretical maximum of 172 LI which could have been LD. If you farmed LI but refused to exchange them hoping you don't have to do wing 5-7, you have almost no ground to stand on to complain besides the fact that Anet went back on their word. You did NOT do the content required.To then get this worked up over not getting rewards which you should not be entitled to in the first place is embarassing.

Ohh but there is a problem here. I had spent my 750LI in 3 legendary sets, so I needed to farm more for the ring. I didn't have my w5 LI of 1 year farming it (all spent). So I had to farm LI or LD again. Remember that a developer told us that you could spend your LI and then after farming more LI use the exchange in some months.

It is not players fault if this was done incorrectly. And second, when the exchange was introduced with the rules we were told, we were supposed to farm the ring as we wanted because we are free and we were given 2 options that you can like or not.

None of this changes the fact that you are banking on a system which was likely introduced for players who had way more clears than you on content and which was over generous implemented.

You can say that you don't like how I farmed the ring, but did I farm for it? Yes. Was I told that my LI farm was the same than a LD farm? Yes. It is my fault for choosing how to farm it when I am given freedom? No. Do you like how the exchange was done? No. Then your problem is with the developers, not with the people as me who trusted in which we were told and farmed according with that.

Players didn't add LD 1 year later, players didn't add the exchange and didn't break the word given, so I can't really understand how you can have a problem with the people who used their freedom to farm the ring.

I already said I disagree with Arenanet going back on their word.

In your case I simply dislike the over the top complaining for not being able to use a feature which allowed you to literally skip the intended content. You complain as though you actually had a right to the ring based on appropriate content cleared, when all you were robbed of was a method to circumvent this content.

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