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Thoughts on Warrior Support

Lan Deathrider.5910

By Lan Deathrider.5910
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Sobx.1758

Sobx.1758

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@Opopanax.1803 said:You said it wasn't inherent, yet made that claim clearly above, as quoted.

You are now going way off track to try to defend yourself. You are not worth replying to. No wonder you have so many people you argue with on these forums!. Carry on!

Yes, the ability being a supportive ability doesn't mean that it's limited strictly to full support builds, what are you even trying to say here? Nothing I said contradicts what I said earlier. Also you still failed to even acknowledge this post, probably because you know you're wrong:

According to your logic support can't deal dmg and dmg dealers can't heal/buff anyone else, because that makes them... what exactly?

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Lan Deathrider.5910

Lan Deathrider.5910

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

What I am saying is let Might Makes Right give its benefits to the people you grant might to. What you did was heal yourself while giving out might to others.

if they are specced to heal themselves when getting a boon, then its almost the same thing.

What I was mentioning was for the trait to heal others as well when you give them might.

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

The endurance would be the one issue I agree. Of course it does nothing if their endurance is full. Would granting half the healing and endurance the warrior receives make it not broken in your opinion? Again this was just a random idea I had to create a more viable warrior support role, and it seemed like a simple change to one trait could do it.

mirage and daredevil will never have full endurance, it's part of their dps. daredevil does +5% damage per endurance bar that is empty (so that is +15%)not only will their bars allways be empty, to upkeep said +15%

they would albe be able to dodge alot more, which is another dps gain (+10% from bounding dodger, lasts 4 seconds)in fractals with vigor (easy perma upkept) and mist mobility pot you have 90% endurance regen (cap is 100%) now add to that your idea off endurance distribution and you can see why this would be beyond broken

even to a point where instead of dragonhunters i could see 2-3 daredevils per group this would require hevay testing to see effective burst dmg as that's where dragonhunter is king, for now

And if the benefits are halved to other players? Or if the endurance gained is instead on an ICD of 1 second? You haven't commented on the healing aspect yet, so what are you thoughts on that part?

didn't comment on the healing because it's irrelevant, it's weaker then regeneration with zero healing power. it's the endurance that would be the issue

entire thread is kinda odd. warrior have nothing besides banner and might?

what about empower allies?what about amongst the highest amount off cc (the highest if you add in consumables where warrior get unique skill)

those, with bannners are your support. might generation was useful, somewhere before 2014 i guess

Control isn't support though. I was implying more support role like what a Firebrand or Druid can offer.

how exactly is control no support?

the best way to deal with incomming damage is to prevent the damage from happening at all.that's literally the point of the breakbar

the difference between good groups, and bad groups.once you make it into the tiers where shait phases the moment you look at it, a whole new world will open for you

those tiers that run only 1 healer, you should see the dps on those comps that are now able to take 1 extra dps

Control and support are distinct roles in GW2.

Said who exactly? Control is part of support, both in gw2 and in other games. Just because you don't like it or it doesn't exactly cover areas you'd like them to (which seems to be strictly buffs and heals), doesn't really mean much.

Also this thread/buff idea seems a bit random, but ok.

Anet circa 2013. When GW2 was launched instead of focusing on tank, spank, healer (lol look at where raids are now), their focus was on Control, Support, and Damage as distinct roles in a group. Warrior hammer is quintessential Control, Warrior Greatsword is quintessential Damage. For support warrior has warhorn, banners, shouts, empower allies, and to a much lesser extent now Phalanx Strength.

Here are the wiki articles on control and support since many of you are conflating them:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Controlhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Support

Warhorn is so lackluster that no one takes it. Banners have been taken since day one, but have been nerfed recently, and frankly probably deserve a broad rework such as each banner pulsing a distinct boon when traited (3 stacks of might 8s for strength banner for example). Shouts are useful, but even traited they do not usually see play. I spent some time toying in gw2skills.net, and you can get a 5k shout heal if go all in with monk runes and clerics/magi stats. (5k after all outgoing healing modifiers).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNBhOD7knDoyDszDwUQgOEMYEU6W88tQ2E9wRYBQDkzA-jBCBQB1UJoW2fIBHEAmp8bQ6GqwFAAAPBgQp+TAgDg3fP37ew7v/+7v/ed/93f/93f/93fvUA+NzC-e

Perhaps that is good enough? You have 3 heals that heal for 5k on others, 1 on a 24s CD that also gives them endurance. One heal gives offensive boons, one clears condi, and another debuffs the enemy, each of which can in an emergency be put on a longer CD and be used again.

However, is this sufficient as a support build relative to the meta?

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Sobx.1758

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

What I am saying is let Might Makes Right give its benefits to the people you grant might to. What you did was heal yourself while giving out might to others.

if they are specced to heal themselves when getting a boon, then its almost the same thing.

What I was mentioning was for the trait to heal others as well when you give them might.

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

The endurance would be the one issue I agree. Of course it does nothing if their endurance is full. Would granting half the healing and endurance the warrior receives make it not broken in your opinion? Again this was just a random idea I had to create a more viable warrior support role, and it seemed like a simple change to one trait could do it.

mirage and daredevil will never have full endurance, it's part of their dps. daredevil does +5% damage per endurance bar that is empty (so that is +15%)not only will their bars allways be empty, to upkeep said +15%

they would albe be able to dodge alot more, which is another dps gain (+10% from bounding dodger, lasts 4 seconds)in fractals with vigor (easy perma upkept) and mist mobility pot you have 90% endurance regen (cap is 100%) now add to that your idea off endurance distribution and you can see why this would be beyond broken

even to a point where instead of dragonhunters i could see 2-3 daredevils per group this would require hevay testing to see effective burst dmg as that's where dragonhunter is king, for now

And if the benefits are halved to other players? Or if the endurance gained is instead on an ICD of 1 second? You haven't commented on the healing aspect yet, so what are you thoughts on that part?

didn't comment on the healing because it's irrelevant, it's weaker then regeneration with zero healing power. it's the endurance that would be the issue

entire thread is kinda odd. warrior have nothing besides banner and might?

what about empower allies?what about amongst the highest amount off cc (the highest if you add in consumables where warrior get unique skill)

those, with bannners are your support. might generation was useful, somewhere before 2014 i guess

Control isn't support though. I was implying more support role like what a Firebrand or Druid can offer.

how exactly is control no support?

the best way to deal with incomming damage is to prevent the damage from happening at all.that's literally the point of the breakbar

the difference between good groups, and bad groups.once you make it into the tiers where shait phases the moment you look at it, a whole new world will open for you

those tiers that run only 1 healer, you should see the dps on those comps that are now able to take 1 extra dps

Control and support are distinct roles in GW2.

Said who exactly? Control is part of support, both in gw2 and in other games. Just because you don't like it or it doesn't exactly cover areas you'd like them to (which seems to be strictly buffs and heals), doesn't really mean much.

Also this thread/buff idea seems a bit random, but ok.

Anet circa 2013. When GW2 was launched instead of focusing on tank, spank, healer (lol look at where raids are now), their focus was on Control, Support, and Damage as distinct roles in a group. Warrior hammer is quintessential Control, Warrior Greatsword is quintessential Damage. For support warrior has warhorn, banners, shouts, empower allies, and to a much lesser extent now Phalanx Strength.

Here are the wiki articles on control and support since many of you are conflating them:

Warhorn is so lackluster that no one takes it. Banners have been taken since day one, but have been nerfed recently, and frankly probably deserve a broad rework such as each banner pulsing a distinct boon when traited (3 stacks of might 8s for strength banner for example). Shouts are useful, but even traited they do not usually see play. I spent some time toying in gw2skills.net, and you can get a 5k shout heal if go all in with monk runes and clerics/magi stats. (5k after all outgoing healing modifiers).

Perhaps that is good enough? You have 3 heals that heal for 5k on others, 1 on a 24s CD that also gives them endurance. One heal gives offensive boons, one clears condi, and another debuffs the enemy, each of which can in an emergency be put on a longer CD and be used again.

However, is this sufficient as a support build relative to the meta?

Never said warrior has some kind of perfect support build, all I said is that cc is a support ability, from your own wiki link:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Support#Conditions

Managing and using different conditions ties support close together with the other aspect of combat, control. Since most conditions act as counterparts to boons, applying a condition on an enemy can have the same result as providing a boon to an ally. For example, crippled and swiftness directly oppose each other, and while the method and purpose of applying them differ greatly, either can be used to allow an ally to escape damage dealt by an enemy.

I guess they try to differentiate support and conditions while at the same time overlap both of them.

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melandru.3876

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

What I am saying is let Might Makes Right give its benefits to the people you grant might to. What you did was heal yourself while giving out might to others.

if they are specced to heal themselves when getting a boon, then its almost the same thing.

What I was mentioning was for the trait to heal others as well when you give them might.

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

The endurance would be the one issue I agree. Of course it does nothing if their endurance is full. Would granting half the healing and endurance the warrior receives make it not broken in your opinion? Again this was just a random idea I had to create a more viable warrior support role, and it seemed like a simple change to one trait could do it.

mirage and daredevil will never have full endurance, it's part of their dps. daredevil does +5% damage per endurance bar that is empty (so that is +15%)not only will their bars allways be empty, to upkeep said +15%

they would albe be able to dodge alot more, which is another dps gain (+10% from bounding dodger, lasts 4 seconds)in fractals with vigor (easy perma upkept) and mist mobility pot you have 90% endurance regen (cap is 100%) now add to that your idea off endurance distribution and you can see why this would be beyond broken

even to a point where instead of dragonhunters i could see 2-3 daredevils per group this would require hevay testing to see effective burst dmg as that's where dragonhunter is king, for now

And if the benefits are halved to other players? Or if the endurance gained is instead on an ICD of 1 second? You haven't commented on the healing aspect yet, so what are you thoughts on that part?

didn't comment on the healing because it's irrelevant, it's weaker then regeneration with zero healing power. it's the endurance that would be the issue

entire thread is kinda odd. warrior have nothing besides banner and might?

what about empower allies?what about amongst the highest amount off cc (the highest if you add in consumables where warrior get unique skill)

those, with bannners are your support. might generation was useful, somewhere before 2014 i guess

Control isn't support though. I was implying more support role like what a Firebrand or Druid can offer.

how exactly is control no support?

the best way to deal with incomming damage is to prevent the damage from happening at all.that's literally the point of the breakbar

the difference between good groups, and bad groups.once you make it into the tiers where shait phases the moment you look at it, a whole new world will open for you

those tiers that run only 1 healer, you should see the dps on those comps that are now able to take 1 extra dps

Control and support are distinct roles in GW2.

Said who exactly? Control is part of support, both in gw2 and in other games. Just because you don't like it or it doesn't exactly cover areas you'd like them to (which seems to be strictly buffs and heals), doesn't really mean much.

Also this thread/buff idea seems a bit random, but ok.

Anet circa 2013. When GW2 was launched instead of focusing on tank, spank, healer (lol look at where raids are now), their focus was on Control, Support, and Damage as distinct roles in a group. Warrior hammer is quintessential Control, Warrior Greatsword is quintessential Damage. For support warrior has warhorn, banners, shouts, empower allies, and to a much lesser extent now Phalanx Strength.

Here are the wiki articles on control and support since many of you are conflating them:

Warhorn is so lackluster that no one takes it. Banners have been taken since day one, but have been nerfed recently, and frankly probably deserve a broad rework such as each banner pulsing a distinct boon when traited (3 stacks of might 8s for strength banner for example). Shouts are useful, but even traited they do not usually see play. I spent some time toying in gw2skills.net, and you can get a 5k shout heal if go all in with monk runes and clerics/magi stats. (5k after all outgoing healing modifiers).

Perhaps that is good enough? You have 3 heals that heal for 5k on others, 1 on a 24s CD that also gives them endurance. One heal gives offensive boons, one clears condi, and another debuffs the enemy, each of which can in an emergency be put on a longer CD and be used again.

However, is this sufficient as a support build relative to the meta?

false, warhorn is used by every plenty warriors for pre-buffing, and horn 5 still has a blast finnisher which u will need for 25 might in no druid compsafter that, rev takes care off might (requires kalla fervor)

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Opopanax.1803

Opopanax.1803

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@melandru.3876 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

What I am saying is let Might Makes Right give its benefits to the people you grant might to. What you did was heal yourself while giving out might to others.

if they are specced to heal themselves when getting a boon, then its almost the same thing.

What I was mentioning was for the trait to heal others as well when you give them might.

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

The endurance would be the one issue I agree. Of course it does nothing if their endurance is full. Would granting half the healing and endurance the warrior receives make it not broken in your opinion? Again this was just a random idea I had to create a more viable warrior support role, and it seemed like a simple change to one trait could do it.

mirage and daredevil will never have full endurance, it's part of their dps. daredevil does +5% damage per endurance bar that is empty (so that is +15%)not only will their bars allways be empty, to upkeep said +15%

they would albe be able to dodge alot more, which is another dps gain (+10% from bounding dodger, lasts 4 seconds)in fractals with vigor (easy perma upkept) and mist mobility pot you have 90% endurance regen (cap is 100%) now add to that your idea off endurance distribution and you can see why this would be beyond broken

even to a point where instead of dragonhunters i could see 2-3 daredevils per group this would require hevay testing to see effective burst dmg as that's where dragonhunter is king, for now

And if the benefits are halved to other players? Or if the endurance gained is instead on an ICD of 1 second? You haven't commented on the healing aspect yet, so what are you thoughts on that part?

didn't comment on the healing because it's irrelevant, it's weaker then regeneration with zero healing power. it's the endurance that would be the issue

entire thread is kinda odd. warrior have nothing besides banner and might?

what about empower allies?what about amongst the highest amount off cc (the highest if you add in consumables where warrior get unique skill)

those, with bannners are your support. might generation was useful, somewhere before 2014 i guess

Control isn't support though. I was implying more support role like what a Firebrand or Druid can offer.

how exactly is control no support?

the best way to deal with incomming damage is to prevent the damage from happening at all.that's literally the point of the breakbar

the difference between good groups, and bad groups.once you make it into the tiers where shait phases the moment you look at it, a whole new world will open for you

those tiers that run only 1 healer, you should see the dps on those comps that are now able to take 1 extra dps

Control and support are distinct roles in GW2.

Said who exactly? Control is part of support, both in gw2 and in other games. Just because you don't like it or it doesn't exactly cover areas you'd like them to (which seems to be strictly buffs and heals), doesn't really mean much.

Also this thread/buff idea seems a bit random, but ok.

Anet circa 2013. When GW2 was launched instead of focusing on tank, spank, healer (lol look at where raids are now), their focus was on Control, Support, and Damage as distinct roles in a group. Warrior hammer is quintessential Control, Warrior Greatsword is quintessential Damage. For support warrior has warhorn, banners, shouts, empower allies, and to a much lesser extent now Phalanx Strength.

Here are the wiki articles on control and support since many of you are conflating them:

Warhorn is so lackluster that no one takes it. Banners have been taken since day one, but have been nerfed recently, and frankly probably deserve a broad rework such as each banner pulsing a distinct boon when traited (3 stacks of might 8s for strength banner for example). Shouts are useful, but even traited they do not usually see play. I spent some time toying in gw2skills.net, and you can get a 5k shout heal if go all in with monk runes and clerics/magi stats. (5k after all outgoing healing modifiers).

Perhaps that is good enough? You have 3 heals that heal for 5k on others, 1 on a 24s CD that also gives them endurance. One heal gives offensive boons, one clears condi, and another debuffs the enemy, each of which can in an emergency be put on a longer CD and be used again.

However, is this sufficient as a support build relative to the meta?

false, warhorn is used by every plenty warriors for pre-buffing, and horn 5 still has a blast finnisher which u will need for 25 might in no druid compsafter that, rev takes care off might (requires kalla fervor)

Far better ways of getting might than warhorn blast, especially with the dps you lose by not taking OH axe or torch.

It's simply not a worthy trade off.

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@Opopanax.1803 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

What I am saying is let Might Makes Right give its benefits to the people you grant might to. What you did was heal yourself while giving out might to others.

if they are specced to heal themselves when getting a boon, then its almost the same thing.

What I was mentioning was for the trait to heal others as well when you give them might.

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

The endurance would be the one issue I agree. Of course it does nothing if their endurance is full. Would granting half the healing and endurance the warrior receives make it not broken in your opinion? Again this was just a random idea I had to create a more viable warrior support role, and it seemed like a simple change to one trait could do it.

mirage and daredevil will never have full endurance, it's part of their dps. daredevil does +5% damage per endurance bar that is empty (so that is +15%)not only will their bars allways be empty, to upkeep said +15%

they would albe be able to dodge alot more, which is another dps gain (+10% from bounding dodger, lasts 4 seconds)in fractals with vigor (easy perma upkept) and mist mobility pot you have 90% endurance regen (cap is 100%) now add to that your idea off endurance distribution and you can see why this would be beyond broken

even to a point where instead of dragonhunters i could see 2-3 daredevils per group this would require hevay testing to see effective burst dmg as that's where dragonhunter is king, for now

And if the benefits are halved to other players? Or if the endurance gained is instead on an ICD of 1 second? You haven't commented on the healing aspect yet, so what are you thoughts on that part?

didn't comment on the healing because it's irrelevant, it's weaker then regeneration with zero healing power. it's the endurance that would be the issue

entire thread is kinda odd. warrior have nothing besides banner and might?

what about empower allies?what about amongst the highest amount off cc (the highest if you add in consumables where warrior get unique skill)

those, with bannners are your support. might generation was useful, somewhere before 2014 i guess

Control isn't support though. I was implying more support role like what a Firebrand or Druid can offer.

how exactly is control no support?

the best way to deal with incomming damage is to prevent the damage from happening at all.that's literally the point of the breakbar

the difference between good groups, and bad groups.once you make it into the tiers where shait phases the moment you look at it, a whole new world will open for you

those tiers that run only 1 healer, you should see the dps on those comps that are now able to take 1 extra dps

Control and support are distinct roles in GW2.

Said who exactly? Control is part of support, both in gw2 and in other games. Just because you don't like it or it doesn't exactly cover areas you'd like them to (which seems to be strictly buffs and heals), doesn't really mean much.

Also this thread/buff idea seems a bit random, but ok.

Anet circa 2013. When GW2 was launched instead of focusing on tank, spank, healer (lol look at where raids are now), their focus was on Control, Support, and Damage as distinct roles in a group. Warrior hammer is quintessential Control, Warrior Greatsword is quintessential Damage. For support warrior has warhorn, banners, shouts, empower allies, and to a much lesser extent now Phalanx Strength.

Here are the wiki articles on control and support since many of you are conflating them:

Warhorn is so lackluster that no one takes it. Banners have been taken since day one, but have been nerfed recently, and frankly probably deserve a broad rework such as each banner pulsing a distinct boon when traited (3 stacks of might 8s for strength banner for example). Shouts are useful, but even traited they do not usually see play. I spent some time toying in gw2skills.net, and you can get a 5k shout heal if go all in with monk runes and clerics/magi stats. (5k after all outgoing healing modifiers).

Perhaps that is good enough? You have 3 heals that heal for 5k on others, 1 on a 24s CD that also gives them endurance. One heal gives offensive boons, one clears condi, and another debuffs the enemy, each of which can in an emergency be put on a longer CD and be used again.

However, is this sufficient as a support build relative to the meta?

false, warhorn is used by every plenty warriors for pre-buffing, and horn 5 still has a blast finnisher which u will need for 25 might in no druid compsafter that, rev takes care off might (requires kalla fervor)

Far better ways of getting might than warhorn blast, especially with the dps you lose by not taking OH axe or torch.

It's simply not a worthy trade off.

you obviously change out the warhorn, after you've used it.

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melandru.3876

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if i had known my comment would create such a fest, i'd kept it for myselfi thought it was beyond logical that the best way to support your teams, is by preventing their incomming damage

we have aegis, we have distortion share and we have breakbars

warrior, king of breakbars.

aegis that blocks 1 attack,

OR

5 seconds (or 10 seconds, depending on boss) damage immunity with a +50% outgoing damage bonus

i can't believe this is even a discussion

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Opopanax.1803

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@melandru.3876 said:

@zionophir.6845 said:just did that yesterday on Triple Double metaevent

Strength 1-2-2Tactics 3-3-3

What I am saying is let Might Makes Right give its benefits to the people you grant might to. What you did was heal yourself while giving out might to others.

if they are specced to heal themselves when getting a boon, then its almost the same thing.

What I was mentioning was for the trait to heal others as well when you give them might.

@melandru.3876 said:would be broken in plenty of scenarios

at the rate a warrior can pump out might with traited greatsword and sigil of strength and food..the endurance gain alone to a whole group would be beyond broken

this is for pve offcourse, doesn't make it any less true.

imagine condi mirages who are allready the top condi raid build, now with a warrior fueling them even more endurance?? yea no thank you! the opposite should happen, more condi builds should be made better

or power daredevil, would also drastically improve and become the dominant burst build

The endurance would be the one issue I agree. Of course it does nothing if their endurance is full. Would granting half the healing and endurance the warrior receives make it not broken in your opinion? Again this was just a random idea I had to create a more viable warrior support role, and it seemed like a simple change to one trait could do it.

mirage and daredevil will never have full endurance, it's part of their dps. daredevil does +5% damage per endurance bar that is empty (so that is +15%)not only will their bars allways be empty, to upkeep said +15%

they would albe be able to dodge alot more, which is another dps gain (+10% from bounding dodger, lasts 4 seconds)in fractals with vigor (easy perma upkept) and mist mobility pot you have 90% endurance regen (cap is 100%) now add to that your idea off endurance distribution and you can see why this would be beyond broken

even to a point where instead of dragonhunters i could see 2-3 daredevils per group this would require hevay testing to see effective burst dmg as that's where dragonhunter is king, for now

And if the benefits are halved to other players? Or if the endurance gained is instead on an ICD of 1 second? You haven't commented on the healing aspect yet, so what are you thoughts on that part?

didn't comment on the healing because it's irrelevant, it's weaker then regeneration with zero healing power. it's the endurance that would be the issue

entire thread is kinda odd. warrior have nothing besides banner and might?

what about empower allies?what about amongst the highest amount off cc (the highest if you add in consumables where warrior get unique skill)

those, with bannners are your support. might generation was useful, somewhere before 2014 i guess

Control isn't support though. I was implying more support role like what a Firebrand or Druid can offer.

how exactly is control no support?

the best way to deal with incomming damage is to prevent the damage from happening at all.that's literally the point of the breakbar

the difference between good groups, and bad groups.once you make it into the tiers where shait phases the moment you look at it, a whole new world will open for you

those tiers that run only 1 healer, you should see the dps on those comps that are now able to take 1 extra dps

Control and support are distinct roles in GW2.

Said who exactly? Control is part of support, both in gw2 and in other games. Just because you don't like it or it doesn't exactly cover areas you'd like them to (which seems to be strictly buffs and heals), doesn't really mean much.

Also this thread/buff idea seems a bit random, but ok.

Anet circa 2013. When GW2 was launched instead of focusing on tank, spank, healer (lol look at where raids are now), their focus was on Control, Support, and Damage as distinct roles in a group. Warrior hammer is quintessential Control, Warrior Greatsword is quintessential Damage. For support warrior has warhorn, banners, shouts, empower allies, and to a much lesser extent now Phalanx Strength.

Here are the wiki articles on control and support since many of you are conflating them:

Warhorn is so lackluster that no one takes it. Banners have been taken since day one, but have been nerfed recently, and frankly probably deserve a broad rework such as each banner pulsing a distinct boon when traited (3 stacks of might 8s for strength banner for example). Shouts are useful, but even traited they do not usually see play. I spent some time toying in gw2skills.net, and you can get a 5k shout heal if go all in with monk runes and clerics/magi stats. (5k after all outgoing healing modifiers).

Perhaps that is good enough? You have 3 heals that heal for 5k on others, 1 on a 24s CD that also gives them endurance. One heal gives offensive boons, one clears condi, and another debuffs the enemy, each of which can in an emergency be put on a longer CD and be used again.

However, is this sufficient as a support build relative to the meta?

false, warhorn is used by every plenty warriors for pre-buffing, and horn 5 still has a blast finnisher which u will need for 25 might in no druid compsafter that, rev takes care off might (requires kalla fervor)

Far better ways of getting might than warhorn blast, especially with the dps you lose by not taking OH axe or torch.

It's simply not a worthy trade off.

you obviously change out the warhorn, after you've used it.

I think the point that we are making is that you are only using horn out of combat. It's not even good enough at its job for you to keep it equipped.

That is why we are saying it lacks as a support weapon. There are simply better options for the class.

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Opopanax.1803

Opopanax.1803

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@melandru.3876 said:if i had known my comment would create such a fest, i'd kept it for myselfi thought it was beyond logical that the best way to support your teams, is by preventing their incomming damage

we have aegis, we have distortion share and we have breakbars

warrior, king of breakbars.

aegis that blocks 1 attack,

OR

5 seconds (or 10 seconds, depending on boss) damage immunity with a +50% outgoing damage bonus

i can't believe this is even a discussion

I'm not sure how you think warhorn is a great damage preventer. Maybe I'm missing what you are trying to convey.

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melandru.3876

melandru.3876

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@Opopanax.1803 said:

@melandru.3876 said:if i had known my comment would create such a fest, i'd kept it for myselfi thought it was beyond logical that the best way to support your teams, is by preventing their incomming damage

we have aegis, we have distortion share and we have breakbars

warrior, king of breakbars.

aegis that blocks 1 attack,

OR

5 seconds (or 10 seconds, depending on boss) damage immunity with a +50% outgoing damage bonus

i can't believe this is even a discussion

I'm not sure how you think warhorn is a great damage preventer. Maybe I'm missing what you are trying to convey.

@melandru.3876 said:if i had known my comment would create such a fest, i'd kept it for myselfi thought it was beyond logical that the best way to support your teams, is by preventing their incomming damage

we have aegis, we have distortion share and we have breakbars

warrior, king of breakbars.

aegis that blocks 1 attack,

OR

5 seconds (or 10 seconds, depending on boss) damage immunity with a +50% outgoing damage bonus

i can't believe this is even a discussion

I'm not sure how you think warhorn is a great damage preventer. Maybe I'm missing what you are trying to convey.

you have to be trolling right now.

not once did i mention warhorn prior to OP bringing up warhorn, i'm very aware that warhorn has no breakbar damage.it was the OP who brought up warhorn, as that was supposed to be the warrior supportive weapon which i do not disagree with. the skills 4 and 5 and the warhorn trait are obvious enough that OP is right.

i said, and i thought i was very clear from the start, that the warrior allready provides support in other forms

-banners-empower allies-boonstrip-cc

the best way to protect your allies, is by preventing every incomming damage for x amount of time as i now have allready said 3 times

it was OP who brought up warhorn, said it was never usedi disagreed, and said that plenty of warriors including myself use warhorn in fractals at mistlock to pre-buff. this is a fact

now you "somehow" (because you ran out of counter-arguements seems the only logical explanation) start to fuse both different topics.

PLEASE DON'T

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Lan Deathrider.5910

Lan Deathrider.5910

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@melandru.3876

Again, control and support distinct roles that you are conflating together, but there is also nothing keeping you from doubling up. I can slot Kick and help break bars with the party just fine, but that this is control not support. If you keep up that logic I'll just take the stance that full dps meme build is the best 'support' spec for warrior because dead things do 0 damage to my party /s

I brought up warhorn simply to go through what is available to the warrior for the support role. Empower, banners, horn, vigorous shouts, phalanx strength are pretty much it. Boonrip and CC are part of control, not support. Banners have been nerfed, PS and VS both were nerfed not long after release, and horn has never been worth keeping equipped. Yeah, you can up party dps with Empower and Phalanx Strength, but might stacking has always been better done by the Elementalist. You can run Vigorous Shouts, but there is little to back it up for support. Now if you could slot BOTH Phalanx Strength and Vigorous Shouts, then you'd have a strong support role, but sadly you cannot.

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