GW2 on Raspberry Pi 4

[Tekoneiric.6817]

The Raspberry Pi 4 was just released and it got me thinking that it's getting good enough specs that it or some future version might be good enough to for a direct port of GW2 on it. One advantage they would have is that the GW2 devs could do their own boot image based on Linux and have control over the OS environment on that image. A stand alone GW2 gaming box would be interesting.

At the very least it should be capable of running a port of GW1. That in itself would breathe some new life in GW1.

Raspberry Pi 4 Model B

A 1.5GHz quad-core 64-bit ARM Cortex-A72 CPU (~3× performance)1GB, 2GB, or 4GB of LPDDR4 SDRAMFull-throughput Gigabit EthernetDual-band 802.11ac wireless networkingBluetooth 5.0Two USB 3.0 and two USB 2.0 portsDual monitor support, at resolutions up to 4KVideoCore VI graphics, supporting OpenGL ES 3.x4Kp60 hardware decode of HEVC video

[LaGranse.8652]

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:The Raspberry Pi 4 was just released and it got me thinking that it's getting good enough specs that it or some future version might be good enough to for a direct port of GW2 on it. One advantage they would have is that the GW2 devs could do their own boot image based on Linux and have control over the OS environment on that image. A stand alone GW2 gaming box would be interesting.

At the very least it should be capable of running a port of GW1. That in itself would breathe some new life in GW1.

Raspberry Pi 4 Model B

A 1.5GHz quad-core 64-bit ARM Cortex-A72 CPU (~3× performance)1GB, 2GB, or 4GB of LPDDR4 SDRAMFull-throughput Gigabit EthernetDual-band 802.11ac wireless networkingBluetooth 5.0Two USB 3.0 and two USB 2.0 portsDual monitor support, at resolutions up to 4KVideoCore VI graphics, supporting OpenGL ES 3.x4Kp60 hardware decode of HEVC video

I doubt the profit is there to make it happen.

[mindcircus.1506]

The twelve hobbyists running these things would thank you, Arenanet.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

@mindcircus.1506 said:The twelve hobbyists running these things would thank you, Arenanet.

Joke all you want but that doesn't negate the fact that they are going to sell a LOT of R.Pi 4s.

[Aeolus.3615]

Wouldn’t the nvidia one be a better option???

[Cyninja.2954]

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:The twelve hobbyists running these things would thank you, Arenanet.

Joke all you want but that doesn't negate the fact that they are going to sell a LOT of R.Pi 4s.

and how many of those buyers will be gamers without access to a more powerful gaming PC who have been playing GW2? How many of those R.Pi 4 users are going to get a 14 year old port? Me thinks that number might drop even below 12.

I'm not sure you understand the target audience of R.Pi 4.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:The twelve hobbyists running these things would thank you, Arenanet.

Joke all you want but that doesn't negate the fact that they are going to sell a LOT of R.Pi 4s.

and how many of those buyers will be gamers without access to a more powerful gaming PC who have been playing GW2? How many of those R.Pi 4 users are going to get a 14 year old port? Me thinks that number might drop even below 12.

I'm not sure you understand the target audience of R.Pi 4.

I fully understand the target audience. In addition to it's use in the maker market it's also large in retro-gaming market. At this point GW1 is so old it should be considered retro. As for GW2; if R.Pi 4 is capable of running a target ported version of GW2 it could potentially open up a spot in living room TV gaming without ANet having to pay license fees to a console manufacturer. I wonder if licensing fees is the reason it hasn't been ported to consoles. Even if it wouldn't run on there a GW1 port to R.Pi 4s would point a lot of people towards playing GW2. A direct port to it would be big news in the gaming and maker market.

[mindcircus.1506]

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:The twelve hobbyists running these things would thank you, Arenanet.

Joke all you want but that doesn't negate the fact that they are going to sell a LOT of R.Pi 4s.

They say this every revision. Every revision they sell a new copy to every egghead and tweaker who bought the last version.They are poor consumer entertainment devices, suitable only for dedicated tinkerers who do not value their own time.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:The twelve hobbyists running these things would thank you, Arenanet.

Joke all you want but that doesn't negate the fact that they are going to sell a LOT of R.Pi 4s.

and how many of those buyers will be gamers without access to a more powerful gaming PC who have been playing GW2? How many of those R.Pi 4 users are going to get a 14 year old port? Me thinks that number might drop even below 12.

I'm not sure you understand the target audience of R.Pi 4.

I fully understand the target audience. In addition to it's use in the maker market it's also large in retro-gaming market.

At this point GW1 is so old it should be considered retro

. As for GW2; if R.Pi 4 is capable of running a target ported version of GW2 it could potentially open up a spot in living room TV gaming without ANet having to pay license fees to a console manufacturer. I wonder if licensing fees is the reason it hasn't been ported to consoles. Even if it wouldn't run on there a GW1 port to R.Pi 4s would point a lot of people towards playing GW2. A direct port to it would be big news in the gaming and maker market.

You are entitled to your opinion and I want to to tell you that you are wrong to call out Guild Wars as a 'retro game' 'so old'

https://www.engadget.com/amp/2008/04/22/its-never-too-late-to-start-playing-guild-wars/

[Tekoneiric.6817]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:The twelve hobbyists running these things would thank you, Arenanet.

Joke all you want but that doesn't negate the fact that they are going to sell a LOT of R.Pi 4s.

They say this every revision. Every revision they sell a new copy to every egghead and tweaker who bought the last version.They are poor consumer entertainment devices, suitable only for dedicated tinkerers who do not value their own time.

The last part of that sounds very similar to things non-gamers say about gamers and people who obsess over MMOGs. It seems wrong to put down how people spend their time in this life as long as they aren't hurting anyone else.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

You are entitled to your opinion and I want to to tell you that you are wrong to call out Guild Wars as a 'retro game' 'so old'

The minimum OS requirements for GW1 is Windows 98. Support for Win 98 was terminated in 2006. To me old and retro are not negative terms. Retro usually has a element of endearment to it.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

You are entitled to your opinion and I want to to tell you that you are wrong to call out Guild Wars as a 'retro game' 'so old'

The minimum OS requirements for GW1 is Windows 98. Support for Win 98 was terminated in 2006. To me old and retro are not negative terms. Retro usually has a element of endearment to it.

Thank You! for clarifying

[Kanok.3027]

There's just one BIG problem with this: Pi is ARM and Guild Wars is not. Remaking the game to run on the ARM CPU arch would be hell. On top of what's already done, they'd have to ensure it works and even then, I mean, we're talking about a LOT of reprogramming for a very niche market. Now, don't get me wrong. I have two Pi's (2 & 3) powering my personal server and retro gaming box respectively, but even with the Pi 4, unless it's running an x86 processor, converting GW1 to ARM would be a monumental and difficult task, and not worth it.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

@Kanok.3027 said:There's just one BIG problem with this: Pi is ARM and Guild Wars is not. Remaking the game to run on the ARM CPU arch would be hell. On top of what's already done, they'd have to ensure it works and even then, I mean, we're talking about a LOT of reprogramming for a very niche market. Now, don't get me wrong. I have two Pi's (2 & 3) powering my personal server and retro gaming box respectively, but even with the Pi 4, unless it's running an x86 processor, converting GW1 to ARM would be a monumental and difficult task, and not worth it.

A lot of companies are going to ARM including Apple. It won't be long before ARM based laptops running Windows will be flooding the market.

[Ayrilana.1396]

I don’t think the Pi 4 has the processor speed, GPU, or memory capabilities to run GW2. It doesn’t appear to have been built for gaming or at least not with the more ‘modern’ games.

I also found a review on it.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/raspberry-pi-4-b,6193.html

[Hesacon.8735]

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:

@Kanok.3027 said:There's just one BIG problem with this: Pi is ARM and Guild Wars is not. Remaking the game to run on the ARM CPU arch would be hell. On top of what's already done, they'd have to ensure it works and even then, I mean, we're talking about a LOT of reprogramming for a very niche market. Now, don't get me wrong. I have two Pi's (2 & 3) powering my personal server and retro gaming box respectively, but even with the Pi 4, unless it's running an x86 processor, converting GW1 to ARM would be a monumental and difficult task, and not worth it.

A lot of companies are going to ARM including Apple. It won't be long before ARM based laptops running Windows will be flooding the market.

This has been a talking point for years and hasn't seen widespread adoption.

[gateless gate.8406]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:The twelve hobbyists running these things would thank you, Arenanet.

Joke all you want but that doesn't negate the fact that they are going to sell a LOT of R.Pi 4s.

They say this every revision. Every revision they sell a new copy to every egghead and tweaker who bought the last version.They are poor consumer entertainment devices, suitable only for dedicated tinkerers who do not value their own time.

So, being as you (obviously) live your life with perfect time efficiency and zero leisure activities, I'm wondering how you posted this message on a videogame forum?

[Zohane.7208]

Apple could have a business case for switching to ARM since iPhone runs them - there would be synergy there. Apple also has a lot tighter Control over their software market, so they can dictate more what runs on Mac.

For Microsoft, the case is the reverse; there's virtually no synergy to be found and a switch of processor architecture would invalidate the enormous volume of Windows-based software that's out there, and still being used.If I had to choose between a new processor technology where I would have to re-invest thousands and thousands of Euros in re-acquiring my old software stack, or buying one with a compatible architecture, and not having to pay anything at all extra to be able to run my software, well, the choice would be very simple indeed.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Zohane.7208 said:Apple could have a business case for switching to ARM since iPhone runs them - there would be synergy there. Apple also has a lot tighter Control over their software market, so they can dictate more what runs on Mac.

For Microsoft, the case is the reverse; there's virtually no synergy to be found and a switch of processor architecture would invalidate the enormous volume of Windows-based software that's out there, and still being used.If I had to choose between a new processor technology where I would have to re-invest thousands and thousands of Euros in re-acquiring my old software stack, or buying one with a compatible architecture, and not having to pay anything at all extra to be able to run my software, well, the choice would be very simple indeed.

It doesn't invalidate the existing software. They can still run them through stuff like run time translations. Not sure about the efficiency of that but they are already using those techniques to enable backward compatibility for xbox games.

On the other hand porting to a RPi would be a waste of time when they could be porting it to Android and iOS ...

[ArmoredVehicle.2849]

ANet's technical resources would better be spent in more important areas:

• The macOS port for example is pretty much beta quality and still running OpenGL (which eventually will be phased out entirely in favor of Metal.)
• Making the engine able to use more cores efficiently.
• Adding a modern renderer such as Vulkan (which unlike DX12) it would benefit users from Win7/8/10 and Linux.

Raspberry Pi's are good and have their uses but gaming is simply not one of them. According to the reviews, the Rpi4 is barely able to hit 40fps at 720p in OpenArena (Quake 3 clone). Would be a waste to trying to run GW2 on it. On the other hand GW1 would probably work acceptably but development costs would greatly outweigh profit.

Last but not least let's not forget that the RPI4 has a maximum ram of 4GB and running Windows on it is neither supported nor viable, it's a resource hog by itself. At the end ANet would have to: Port the engine to a different architecture (Arm), write a new renderer (OpenGL only since Vulkan is not yet ready) and a different OS (Linux).

Now if GW2 were to come to streaming services such as the upcoming Stadia....well that might be a whole different story.

[Kanok.3027]

@Tekoneiric.6817 said:A lot of companies are going to ARM including Apple. It won't be long before ARM based laptops running Windows will be flooding the market.

Yes, for mobile devices because it's easier to develop for and better than trying to make your own dedicated CPU for your devices. It has a lot better support and it's low-powered, but that doesn't mean a lot of PC programs will be heading down this direction. It's just not viable for the PC space. Like I said, I'm all for ARM-based, portable devices, but it will not happen. Pi has been and always will be a niche device even though it has reached a greater audience due to word of mouth, but at the end of the day, people want either a very powerful mobile phone or a decent PC for their games. The specs are good for lower-end gaming and retro gaming, which might be great for N64 emulation, finally, but that's about it.

If you want a portable version of GW1, get a netbook or some other device with an x86 processor (Atom) and use that. Another thing to note, which I thought about when trying to remember info about the Atom, is that in order for GW1 to run on an ARM device, aside from the CPU rewrite would be a graphics rewrite since those graphics engines are made for PC graphics GPU's and not low-powered ones. Far too much work.

Again, I still agree that the Pi 4 is a great step forward, but until it decides to change it's CPU from ARM to x86/x86-64, then it's a no-go.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

@Kanok.3027 said:

If you want a portable version of GW1, get a netbook or some other device with an x86 processor (Atom) and use that. Another thing to note, which I thought about when trying to remember info about the Atom, is that in order for GW1 to run on an ARM device, aside from the CPU rewrite would be a graphics rewrite since those graphics engines are made for PC graphics GPU's and not low-powered ones. Far too much work.

The novelty of GW1 running on something like the R.Pi 4 would drive a lot of people to become players of the franchise. Besides it wouldn't be for free. The R.Pi 4 gamer would still need to purchase an account since it's not free to play like core GW2. I think there is a lot of life left in GW1 if they wanted to port it to various other devices like Android, IOS, consoles and the R.Pi 4.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

@Hesacon.8735 said:

This has been a talking point for years and hasn't seen widespread adoption.

It's a matter of prices vs processing capability vs power usage. There will be a tipping point hit then you'll see more wide spread adoption. I think that tipping point has been met but the hardware and software is still being developed. A quick search online shows that there are ARM laptops out there already.

[Metasynaptic.1093]

There are x64 small form PCs that would do what you are suggesting without anet having to lift a finger.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

well, some dude at heise.de tried to replace his desktop with a raspberry.

Went as well as expected. That is: not at all.

ARM is SLOW. 1.5GHZ on a slow architecture is still SLOW.