5 main reasons why PvP died/ everyone quit — Guild Wars 2 Forums

5 main reasons why PvP died/ everyone quit

Skyronight.6370Skyronight.6370 Member ✭✭
edited June 22, 2019 in PVP

I tried checking out gw2 pvp again after getting bored of battle royale games and I just got reminded again why I left in the first place. Nowadays silver players get paired with rank 1-10 players from leaderboard because the population has never been lower and theres reasons for that.

  1. lack of updates towards pvp, it has never changed and stayed the same, couple of new maps and no other changes

  2. power creep from elite specs, basically arena net has turned everyone into a super hero while having no downsides in their build like pre hot, theres no more giving up damage for sustain or for mobility, every build has everything and large AoE spam resulting in low skill floor which creates unbalanced matches since everyone is a God that means nobody is a god. Its like playing CS GO and everyone has aim bot and wall hacks on, how do you determinate who is the better player?

  3. Casual friendly mechanics such as passive traits and the overtuned downstate mechanics, when a player get downed they should be punished for the misplay but instead gw2 is the only game that gives really overpowered abilities in the downstate making it near impossible to win outnumbered fights since its so easy to res and interrupt the stomp, basically its easier to play defensively than offensively thus favoring the casual player more. Imagine playing PUBG squads and the downed player could throw smokes or molotovs at you etc, why is it so hard to kill someone that has already been partially defeated, to balance downstate there should be no abilities available aside from self res and it should take at least 2 other players to get the full res when 1 person is cleaving. Do not reward people for misplays. Same applies to passive traits like passive aegis, passive invul etc, basically making PvP too casual friendly made all the hardcore pvpers quit that are looking for a competitive game which brings me to reason number 4.

  4. The competitive scene of gw2 has always been a niche instead of being the main focus, players were never incentivized to make teams because there was no tournaments and no rewards aside from ESL cups back then. This the game only stayed in a " yolo Q" only state and was never growing as a competitive game and its always been dominated by the same 2-3 teams because of lack of competition. PvP cannot survive without a competitive environment and gw2 never offered that environment except with ESL cups that had great rewards.

  5. Lack of advertisment of the PvP part of the game, basically the PvP population stayed rather low at all times because there was incentive to try it and all the focus was mainly on the living story and the expansions, its like pvp was just a mini game and was something that was not important, even introducing a basic tutorial and giving people a few gold for trying out PvP would have made the population so much bigger and alot of players would end up staying and try to improve and be competitive but instead some people dont even know that pvp exists in gw2 because it was not being talked about.

    1. Edit: Forgot an important one is lack of frequent balance patches . When it takes several months to fix an over performing build, people are not willing to wait till it gets fixed they will just quit and probably will not come back.

Theres alot more reasons but those are the main ones, its kinda sad to see this because this game had potential but it never reached it.

<1

Comments

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    I tried checking out gw2 pvp again after getting bored of battle royale games and I just got reminded again why I left in the first place. Nowadays silver players get paired with rank 1-10 players from leaderboard because the population has never been lower and theres reasons for that.

    1. lack of updates towards pvp, it has never changed and stayed the same, couple of new maps and no other changes

    2. power creep from elite specs, basically arena net has turned everyone into a super hero while having no downsides in their build like pre hot, theres no more giving up damage for sustain or for mobility, every build has everything and large AoE spam resulting in low skill floor which creates unbalanced matches since everyone is a God that means nobody is a god. Its like playing CS GO and everyone has aim bot and wall hacks on, how do you determinate who is the better player?

    3. Casual friendly mechanics such as passive traits and the overtuned downstate mechanics, when a player get downed they should be punished for the misplay but instead gw2 is the only game that gives really overpowered abilities in the downstate making it near impossible to win outnumbered fights since its so easy to res and interrupt the stomp, basically its easier to play defensively than offensively thus favoring the casual player more. Imagine playing PUBG squads and the downed player could throw smokes or molotovs at you etc, why is it so hard to kill someone that has already been partially defeated, to balance downstate there should be no abilities available aside from self res and it should take at least 2 other players to get the full res when 1 person is cleaving. Do not reward people for misplays. Same applies to passive traits like passive aegis, passive invul etc, basically making PvP too casual friendly made all the hardcore pvpers quit that are looking for a competitive game which brings me to reason number 4.

    4. The competitive scene of gw2 has always been a niche instead of being the main focus, players were never incentivized to make teams because there was no tournaments and no rewards aside from ESL cups back then. This the game only stayed in a " yolo Q" only state and was never growing as a competitive game and its always been dominated by the same 2-3 teams because of lack of competition. PvP cannot survive without a competitive environment and gw2 never offered that environment except with ESL cups that had great rewards.

    5. Lack of advertisment of the PvP part of the game, basically the PvP population stayed rather low at all times because there was incentive to try it and all the focus was mainly on the living story and the expansions, its like pvp was just a mini game and was something that was not important, even introducing a basic tutorial and giving people a few gold for trying out PvP would have made the population so much bigger and alot of players would end up staying and try to improve and be competitive but instead some people dont even know that pvp exists in gw2 because it was not being talked about.

      1. Edit: Forgot an important one is lack of frequent balance patches . When it takes several months to fix an over performing build, people are not willing to wait till it gets fixed they will just quit and probably will not come back.

    Theres alot more reasons but those are the main ones, its kinda sad to see this because this game had potential but it never reached it.

    +1

    Well said

  • Silinsar.6298Silinsar.6298 Member ✭✭✭

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    I tried checking out gw2 pvp again after getting bored of battle royale games and I just got reminded again why I left in the first place. Nowadays silver players get paired with rank 1-10 players from leaderboard because the population has never been lower and theres reasons for that.

    1. lack of updates towards pvp, it has never changed and stayed the same, couple of new maps and no other changes

    Yeah, PvP has been getting less and less attention. You don't need change for change's sake (aka don't unbalance what isn't broken), but some new maps or game modes would have been nice. ANet tried with the siege thing (don't even remember the name) and death match arena, but then didn't give them a q and just left them in the dust. Removing the water combat from sPvP also was an early indicator that they just didn't want to put in the effort to fix / balance it.

    1. power creep from elite specs, basically arena net has turned everyone into a super hero while having no downsides in their build like pre hot, theres no more giving up damage for sustain or for mobility, every build has everything and large AoE spam resulting in low skill floor which creates unbalanced matches since everyone is a God that means nobody is a god. Its like playing CS GO and everyone has aim bot and wall hacks on, how do you determinate who is the better player?

    I don't think powercreep has reduced the skill requirement of the game. There are just more situations now that are decided by builds / team composition IF everyone has reached a certain skill level. And fights tend to be more one sided, so there generally are lesser moments in which to apply skill. But you'll still need experience to be consistently successful. And in some matchups the difference really shows.
    While a good expansion spec might carry a player in some situations, those in which it doesn't become the deciding ones. And those are harder than before, because more stuff gets thrown around in less time while compared to that you could take time to really ponder how to use your skills pre hot. That also makes PvP less noob friendly compared to pre hot, imo. It became more action + reaction heavy and less tactical but the tactical part didn't get removed, it's still there somehow, you just have less time to think about it :) If you want to get into the "good" tactical part of PvP you basically have to automatize the mechanical part (which takes a lot of practice).

    1. Casual friendly mechanics such as passive traits and the overtuned downstate mechanics, when a player get downed they should be punished for the misplay but instead gw2 is the only game that gives really overpowered abilities in the downstate making it near impossible to win outnumbered fights since its so easy to res and interrupt the stomp, basically its easier to play defensively than offensively thus favoring the casual player more. Imagine playing PUBG squads and the downed player could throw smokes or molotovs at you etc, why is it so hard to kill someone that has already been partially defeated, to balance downstate there should be no abilities available aside from self res and it should take at least 2 other players to get the full res when 1 person is cleaving. Do not reward people for misplays. Same applies to passive traits like passive aegis, passive invul etc, basically making PvP too casual friendly made all the hardcore pvpers quit that are looking for a competitive game which brings me to reason number 4.

    I think the downed / res mechanic itself is fine in sPvP. The skills around it that allow near zero risk and/or fast ressing, and the fact that ANet never really got to balance the skills of the downed state itself. And I'd have liked to see them trying to scrap rally. I get the idea to make an exciting comeback, but when you got a very even and balanced team fight, 2 people down on every side, one of them just dies while one of the other team has 1% and it turns the whole thing around so much that what could continue as a even fight is now a complete blowout... it just ends a good fight midway.

    1. The competitive scene of gw2 has always been a niche instead of being the main focus, players were never incentivized to make teams because there was no tournaments and no rewards aside from ESL cups back then. This the game only stayed in a " yolo Q" only state and was never growing as a competitive game and its always been dominated by the same 2-3 teams because of lack of competition. PvP cannot survive without a competitive environment and gw2 never offered that environment except with ESL cups that had great rewards.

    I've never had any tournament ambitions, but from what I read and experienced myself (from those openly indicating they're part of it) many of the players engaging in the short ESL scene were downright toxic. You don't just need tournaments and rewards, you need a community people actually want to be part of.

    1. Lack of advertisment of the PvP part of the game, basically the PvP population stayed rather low at all times because there was incentive to try it and all the focus was mainly on the living story and the expansions, its like pvp was just a mini game and was something that was not important, even introducing a basic tutorial and giving people a few gold for trying out PvP would have made the population so much bigger and alot of players would end up staying and try to improve and be competitive but instead some people dont even know that pvp exists in gw2 because it was not being talked about.

    Kinda like the chicken / egg problem. What was there before: Few players because of little resources invested from ANet or little resources invested from ANet because there were so few payers?
    In GW1 there are low level arenas that would ease new players into PvP, you always play in a team (heros / henchies), mobs are set up in groups with reasonable compositions (frontline, casters, healers...) and use the same skills players can. The PvE in GW1 is basically teaching you PvP by letting you play vs bots with your own bots. And it felt very dynamic and tactical to me because of that. Imo GW1 is the better PvE and PvP game, but GW2 is newer, it's the better MMO and has a better combat system.

    1. Edit: Forgot an important one is lack of frequent balance patches . When it takes several months to fix an over performing build, people are not willing to wait till it gets fixed they will just quit and probably will not come back.

    Balance often is subjective. Sometimes an OP build seems less OP 2 months later because people figure out to fight it or adjust some things to bring more counters. Sometimes "OP" builds pop out of nowhere (without following a buff) because someone just discovered it handles the current meta well. Overhasty nerfs can be necessary in some cases, but I wouldn't say that was THE problem about ANet's balancing. ANet always tried slow and steady, to continuously gravitate towards the unreachable perfect balance. And it was just that, it worked, imo, it just wasn't good for keeping impatient players. And then they threw the whole thing, years of slow and steady balancing, a pretty well balanced state of the game, into the gutter with the trait overhauls & expansions. And they still stick to slow, but became less sensible (personal opinion) about how they handle things. And they scrapped the "steady" part, suddenly reworking things here or there (that might not need it to begin with) while doing nothing or almost irrelevant number changes in other spots.

    Theres alot more reasons but those are the main ones, its kinda sad to see this because this game had potential but it never reached it.

    Imo, GW2 PvP (and also WvW) could have benefited massively from dedicated community managers (and balance/dev teams in the background). Discussing in detail (as much as I appreciate them, not just a post every couple of months) why things don't change fast, how they're handling it, what their view on it and the data is, previewing and opening up changes to discussions, do some weekend-event tests (like for pof) for greater balance updates, ... The PvP development is basically below an indie-dev level (at least the impression of how much dedicated resources they provide for it is) and those HAVE to engage with their communities to keep them interested and invested and to make more people take a look at it. As sad as the layoffs were, the restructuring would have been the chance to make PvP a little bit more of a priority.

    And while the devs should have really upped their game in some areas, the community should have done so too. Matchmaking mixes plat with low golds, so don't ask of others what you couldn't achieve yourself (and be toxic about it), be willing to teach people. Welcome noobs. Don't expect the devs to specifically cater to your ideas of balance. Be a little patient or try to adjust a bit. Make your own tournaments. Don't shout "OP!" without giving any real arguments as soon as you encounter something new, a better player or 1 day after a patch.

    SD Engi / Holo roaming videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/algeyr

  • Ziggityzog.7389Ziggityzog.7389 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    I tried checking out gw2 pvp again after getting bored of battle royale games and I just got reminded again why I left in the first place. Nowadays silver players get paired with rank 1-10 players from leaderboard because the population has never been lower and theres reasons for that.

    1. lack of updates towards pvp, it has never changed and stayed the same, couple of new maps and no other changes

    2. power creep from elite specs, basically arena net has turned everyone into a super hero while having no downsides in their build like pre hot, theres no more giving up damage for sustain or for mobility, every build has everything and large AoE spam resulting in low skill floor which creates unbalanced matches since everyone is a God that means nobody is a god. Its like playing CS GO and everyone has aim bot and wall hacks on, how do you determinate who is the better player?

    3. Casual friendly mechanics such as passive traits and the overtuned downstate mechanics, when a player get downed they should be punished for the misplay but instead gw2 is the only game that gives really overpowered abilities in the downstate making it near impossible to win outnumbered fights since its so easy to res and interrupt the stomp, basically its easier to play defensively than offensively thus favoring the casual player more. Imagine playing PUBG squads and the downed player could throw smokes or molotovs at you etc, why is it so hard to kill someone that has already been partially defeated, to balance downstate there should be no abilities available aside from self res and it should take at least 2 other players to get the full res when 1 person is cleaving. Do not reward people for misplays. Same applies to passive traits like passive aegis, passive invul etc, basically making PvP too casual friendly made all the hardcore pvpers quit that are looking for a competitive game which brings me to reason number 4.

    4. The competitive scene of gw2 has always been a niche instead of being the main focus, players were never incentivized to make teams because there was no tournaments and no rewards aside from ESL cups back then. This the game only stayed in a " yolo Q" only state and was never growing as a competitive game and its always been dominated by the same 2-3 teams because of lack of competition. PvP cannot survive without a competitive environment and gw2 never offered that environment except with ESL cups that had great rewards.

    5. Lack of advertisment of the PvP part of the game, basically the PvP population stayed rather low at all times because there was incentive to try it and all the focus was mainly on the living story and the expansions, its like pvp was just a mini game and was something that was not important, even introducing a basic tutorial and giving people a few gold for trying out PvP would have made the population so much bigger and alot of players would end up staying and try to improve and be competitive but instead some people dont even know that pvp exists in gw2 because it was not being talked about.

      1. Edit: Forgot an important one is lack of frequent balance patches . When it takes several months to fix an over performing build, people are not willing to wait till it gets fixed they will just quit and probably will not come back.

    Theres alot more reasons but those are the main ones, its kinda sad to see this because this game had potential but it never reached it.

    +1

    Well said

    slow clap. Here here.

    A game mode like pvp should not be allowed to go stale like it did with lack of anything but the same copy paste format of everything.

  • Lala.8752Lala.8752 Member ✭✭

    personally, i stopped because i don't like playing every time the same build and balance with good change in gw2 are too rare

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Game was doomed from released. No skill diversity, no risk imbued into skills, every skill has a safety net. Some renowned gw1 players warned ANet about this before release, it didn't change anything.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Game was doomed from released. No skill diversity, no risk imbued into skills, every skill has a safety net. Some renowned gw1 players warned ANet about this before release, it didn't change anything.

    The warrior from the team of ''War Mach...ette'' from GW1 . called this game an un-meele game , and they where still bitter that the company didnt inv them in the closed beta to give their opinion ....

    The newers ppl like mesmer Xer ..Xerxes from the top pvp teams , told the bold balance guy to not bother so much , becuase balance dont matter and ''as long there are athletes , ppl will flock in the stadium'' ....

    Let me find for a sec , the street fight videos , where ''buffing up is more benificial to the game , rather than nerfing'' , where ppl where so fond of to link here...

    No wonder we had 3-5k viewers for 2 years without increase , even with ESL using thier platform to advertise it ...

    PPl defend their ,class , other dont like it and bail out , new ppl come in ., and in the end the ppl that defended their class get older and whine..
    Same circle

  • @BadMed.3846 said:
    Ability to duo queue making an absolute mockery of the leaderboard system. Making the game enjoyable for only title abusing elitists who manipulate the game mode to death.

    ^ This

    DuoQ's are no more or less competitive than SoloQ's in GW2's 5v5 gamemode, they only encourage what is essentially team stacking and match manipulation.

    To go along with what the OP said, killing off GW2's competitive scene started a long time ago, but the finishing blow was definitely DuoQ and Season 13.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • SPESHAL.9106SPESHAL.9106 Member ✭✭✭

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    I tried checking out gw2 pvp again after getting bored of battle royale games and I just got reminded again why I left in the first place. Nowadays silver players get paired with rank 1-10 players from leaderboard because the population has never been lower and theres reasons for that.

    1. lack of updates towards pvp, it has never changed and stayed the same, couple of new maps and no other changes

    Technically, they DID do updates. The problem is that they REMOVED things. They used to have underwater combat, but instead of fixing it, they decided to waste all that programming for PvP and remove it from the maps. They had a coliseum style group map that they gave up on too. They quasi gave up on stronghold while other maps stay in beta forever. SERIOUSLY, how long does it take for a map to be in beta before they figure out the issues????

    The real killer though was the worthless leaderboards. First, they took forever to implement the right scoring system that wasn't a grind and was consistent with other game...however, they then sabotaged it by allowing premades mix with solo players. On top of that, they ignore the obvious problems with cheaters and manipulators such that people don't even bother to report anymore.

    The coup de grace though is these rare patches cause just as much problems as they solve. They "reworked mesmers" and it resulted in such an OP profession that they are still viable after a full year of nerfs. They recently did the same to scrappers and revenants such that double revs are a thing. In short, they break as much as they fix...not to mention...every patch they have to hotfix embarrassing things that should have been caught with 5 minutes of internal testing.

  • KidRoleplay.3615KidRoleplay.3615 Member ✭✭✭

    It's been seven years, and I've tried SPvP over and over again on and off and have never been able to enjoy it outside of the initial illusion of thrill due to its fast pace. I just came to the conclusion that it wasn't for me. Loved it in GW1, but in GW2, it feels like "he who can spin in circles the best wins" (if you don't just outright get bursted from something lame).

    Not saying there isn't strategy involved, but the feeling of strategy, and especially variety, feels much less than its predecessor. Not even commentators have been able to tell what's going on.

    I remember sucking at fighting so much that I started playing a tanky healing core guardian and found my love with that--helping out my team. Then that stat combo was removed... I've never gone back.

  • Sovari.7246Sovari.7246 Member ✭✭

    I know a lot pf people who stopped playing pvp because they finished their backpack and don't have a goal anymore to lure them back. so.. I think if they added another backpack with achievements more casuals will probably return

  • imahich.8415imahich.8415 Member ✭✭

    Last 7 rank games we lost with less than 100 points no one on my team talked except like 1 person until i said something about my team being bots then another would talk but no one would do anything win trading guilds queuing up together to let the other win?? Like come on i just came back from 2017 and this is what this game is going through right now?

  • ilonlie.4316ilonlie.4316 Member ✭✭

    I do not PVP since the game auto-changes my build.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭

    @LaGranse.8652 said:
    Still confused why people whose priority is balanced player vs player combat look for it in MMO's. There are games specifically designed for this while an MMO has many elements that complicate fully balancing the game.

    GW2 caters more the the casual side of games and the ranked PvP mode does not interest many 1 bit. I myself played unranked and never considered playing ranked because my guildies all told me I will have more fun in unranked. More build diversity, less 100% tryhards etc.

    I, too, share your confusion. I mean, it would be nice if we could magically get balanced spvp within our mmo, but I'm not sure pvp was ever really a priority for this game. More importantly, I'm not sure that it really needs to be, either.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @LaGranse.8652 said:
    Still confused why people whose priority is balanced player vs player combat look for it in MMO's. There are games specifically designed for this while an MMO has many elements that complicate fully balancing the game.

    GW2 caters more the the casual side of games and the ranked PvP mode does not interest many 1 bit. I myself played unranked and never considered playing ranked because my guildies all told me I will have more fun in unranked. More build diversity, less 100% tryhards etc.

    I, too, share your confusion. I mean, it would be nice if we could magically get balanced spvp within our mmo, but I'm not sure pvp was ever really a priority for this game. More importantly, I'm not sure that it really needs to be, either.

    Yeah, they might as well just dump one of their core elements.

    I really think that will bring in more players and convince the veterans to stay.

    I mean there can't be any other better PVE experience out there, can there?

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The problem is also community
    Ppl will try to force you into playing a ceratin build in a certain style
    You may get results with your stuff you may be okay with how you are and where you are
    but ppl will simply salt you and be complete kittenface about the fact you do not follow their standards of a game which is atm a POWER builds

  • Thx for this thread. There have been a lot of very thoughtful and measured comments. I’ve been wrestling with whether to continue on with GW2 sPVP and this has been very helpful. Cheers.

  • beatthedown.2651beatthedown.2651 Member ✭✭✭

    Personally I don't think PvP is as bad, as the average silver rank forum poster likes the readers to think.

    The problem is that anet sees this gamemode as "finished" and barely adds new stuff. They drop season after season without any changes. When you look at other games, they change stuff up each season or swap rewards. It's just not appealing anymore at this point.

    If they continue like this, the community is going to bleed out which will cripple matchmaking even further.

    They don't even need to try hard. All they need to do is put one of the new skins, instead of the gemstore, into the last pip chest. And change them up each season. We have seen ppl go crazy over new limited rewards in the world boss event.

    I know we are now getting new armor skins, but I'm guessing most players will just instagrab them, since there aren't many currency sinks...

  • Sileeent.5861Sileeent.5861 Member ✭✭
    edited June 24, 2019

    A lot of text here... I haven't read a single word;
    but I can tell you quickly why PvP isn't dying:

    Loot

  • ROMANG.1903ROMANG.1903 Member ✭✭✭

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    3. Casual friendly mechanics such as passive traits and the overtuned downstate mechanics, when a player get downed they should be punished for the misplay but instead gw2 is the only game that gives really overpowered abilities in the downstate making it near impossible to win outnumbered fights since its so easy to res and interrupt the stomp, basically its easier to play defensively than offensively thus favoring the casual player more. Imagine playing PUBG squads and the downed player could throw smokes or molotovs at you etc, why is it so hard to kill someone that has already been partially defeated, to balance downstate there should be no abilities available aside from self res and it should take at least 2 other players to get the full res when 1 person is cleaving. Do not reward people for misplays. Same applies to passive traits like passive aegis, passive invul etc, basically making PvP too casual friendly made all the hardcore pvpers quit that are looking for a competitive game which brings me to reason number 4.

    I just have to answer this. If you're not in a 1v1 fight, your best chance to finish someone is to just keep damaging them with your abilities instead of trying to stomp them. And if their team regroups around them to rez? That's the best case scenario! You have 2-3 ennemies stunning themselves for several seconds in the exact same spot, for you to throw all of your damaging abilities.

  • TamX.1870TamX.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sovari.7246 said:
    I know a lot pf people who stopped playing pvp because they finished their backpack and don't have a goal anymore to lure them back. so.. I think if they added another backpack with achievements more casuals will probably return

    I would be very careful adding such rewards, which are mainly meant for PvE side. It does not hurt that if you like PvP, you can also gear up your toon for PvE side, but such rewards most probably would not change anything. PvP side should be exciting enough on its own to keep the players.

    @ilonlie.4316 said:
    I do not PVP since the game auto-changes my build.

    Yes, both PvP and WvW "auto build swap" is incomplete and thus unusable. You will anyways need to use ArcDPS build templates or go through gears manually, because those built-in swappers do not remember gears (like weapons) and such. Would be great if they'd finish that, or even better, implement game-wide build swapping tool. It is really strange it has not been there already.


    I can agree with many of the comments in this thread. Personally, I usually like PvP side in games like GW2. But for some reason, even that I liked PvP quite much at the beginning, it has become more and more a chore instead of enjoyment. I really don't have any good answers, but I could try to list down few things I find problematic.

    First, I think the main problem is the main game mode, ranked 5vs5 matches. Personally I feel it strange that a game mode where teams fight against each other, give you personal rewards and rankings, and even forces you to go with random people on your own team. Queuing and MMR mechanics fit well to unranked, and they could fit well to low ranks, but for competitive perspective high tier ranked matches should IMO be played between premades. So, you could queue to unranked and low ranks with 1 to 5 players, but when reaching certain ranking you would always go with premade teams.

    I think that for solo PvP, there should be a different game mode, where you are on your own. Either pure 1vs1 duels, or for example 5 or 10 person all vs all deathmatch. I know this system would benefit greatly those strong 1vs1 builds, but that's the purpose. For any competitive people it would not be too much to roll a mesmer, thief or ranger for solo matches. Furthermore, this game mode would help balance team to adjust solo capabilities of the professions, if needed - personally, I really would not mind if solo fights are dominated by certain classes, and group fights are dominated by some other classes. Only if one class dominates the entire scene, then there would be a problem.

    That 2vs2 game mode may be promising. It is not that hard to make a "premade" duo, and you can together hone your co-operation to fight against other competitive duos.

    So, my first suggestion for PvP side would be refine the game modes so that support competitive nature of the PvP, and your rewards are not up to MMR randomness, something like this, coarsely in order of increasing rewards:

    • unranked 5vs5; As today, queue with 1 to 5 players for practising 5vs5 team fights. No need for much rewards, just enough to lure people to PvP lobby and get involved to game mode.
    • ranked 5 or 10 player all vs all deathmatch: solo queue (obviously) - this game mode would be more for fun, because the fights would be chaotic and there would be lots of random things deciding the winner and loosers.
    • ranked 1vs1: solo queue (obviously) - PvPers will duel, no matter if there is game mode for that or not. I am pretty sure this kind of game mode would be very popular. And not only that. Having leaderboards and ratings would give hard fact about which classes are the strongest duelers, and who are the players who master them best. In a duel, there is no-one else to blame but you if you don't win. There is just you and your build and your skills on that build, against competent opponent. PvP in its most pure form. Because of this, no need for overwhelming rewards, rating is a reward on its own, as well as your position in leaderboards.
    • ranked 2vs2: queue with 2 player premade duo. It is much easier to form premade duos with your friend, that trying to get 5 people to form a team.
    • ranked 5vs5, low tiers: queue with 1 to 5 players to get rankings for high tier fights. This is basically just for getting high enough ratings to take part to "high tier 5vs5", so no need for extensive rewards.
    • ranked 5vs5, high tiers: queue with 5 player premade (similar to automated tournamets, may be merged) for PvP season rewards.

    Second, I think one of the problems at PvP side is lack of tools to build community. In fact, the entire game suffers this. For an MMO with quite large player base, it is surprising how little social interaction there is between players in close every game mode: landscape, fractals and PvP. Only WvW and (even PuG) raids encourage people to talk more with each other. Your social interactions are pretty much entirely closed inside guilds. I think one of the reason is that when you randomly meet people (landscape, fractal PuGs, ranked/unranked teams), it is rare that you meet the same persons again, and thus it does not encourage building social relationships to other players.

    I feel that the game would need more tools and opportunities for bringing like-minded people together for building communities. I would develop PvP lobby as a place where people can take fights against each other, others could watch them, and then you could analyze the fight. Something like having like 5 to 10 duel arenas, bit similar to Queen's Gauntlet, and maybe also some small 2vs2 arenas. I would improve the custom arena mechanism so that people could easier advertise their arena events, and people could go watching the action.

    Just anything that puts PvPers together and make them talk to each other outside the competition. In the current lobby, there is nothing to talk about. You are waiting your match to start, and at most you tell how bad your latest match was.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2019

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    Yeah, they might as well just dump one of their core elements.

    I get that you were being sarcastic here, but I never really called for pvp to be dumped entirely. I just think the game as a whole, as a revenue earning product, will likely continue to do fine with pvp sputtering along the way it currently is.

    This is not to say that I'm satisfied with the current state of spvp. I'm just guessing it probably doesn't make much business sense (given the nature of the game, where it stands in its life cycle, how much effort it takes Anet to actually fix things without further breaking them, etc.) to really do a pvp overhaul.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2019

    1.) Leaderboards and ranking rewards that foster a toxic competitive environment, and a matchmaking system that forces people to play with the aforementioned toxic players.
    2.) The removal of premades from ranking, which disincentivised PVP for people who had friends they wanted to play/train with, and forced the remainder of the community to queue with people they would never match up with.
    3.) Builds that utilize toxic mechanics or a toxic combination of mechanics running rampant in the aforementioned environment not being actively or frequently vetted by any developers for excessively long periods of time. Patch changes in the middle of competitive seasons that could cause any training done beforehand to be useless.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Wolfey.3407Wolfey.3407 Member ✭✭

    My biggest gripe with the current state of PvP is that there is nothing to keep me in the lobby or to queue up after my dailies.

    When the game launched, there was incentive a grind and people to hang out with.
    Grind wise you had things you could work on. Even as a solo Q brand new player.

    Good Example of one that can easily be revived:
    1) You had the animal ranks you can grind out
    a1) Animal Rank Account Medal
    b1) Animal Rank Finisher & emote update

    Anet did try with the finisher aspect with Heart of Thorns by having Jungle equivalence of them.
    Yet, as is tradition with ANET they realized there's no money in it and if 1 person complains then everyone hates it, so they abandoned it in PoF.

    Is it a big deal? no.
    But, it was at least SOMETHING to grind and work towards.
    For myself, if I know i'm close to unlocking a new finisher or account medal, i'm going to try and push on and get it.

    WvW has a grind-able system in place with with the Rank Titles being Invader - Diamond Legend.
    It's something to work towards.

    With a WvW equivalence being put in place, we are done at Bronze Invader.

    The last time we (populace not minority sponsored few) were able to EARN a new finisher was The Mordrem Dragon Finisher back with the launch of HoT.

    What do we have to grind and work towards now?
    Recolored LLama minis that are gated based on how many laurels you are able to acquire for the essence?
    Legendary Back Piece which is a very very short term goal and once done...well... you're done.
    Legendary Armor which if you only PvP is laughable.... it's not even an unique skin or really animated.

    I guess if you have 4 friends who are willing to hang out and no life the game and are able to quit your job to do tournaments you can have a special floaty icon over your characters head.... but then again i could just go to a certain streaming website and pay one of the affiliated streamers to just unlock it for me on my account soo....

    Everything that is offered in PvP as rewards and as incentives i can get way faster, most cases cheaper, and 90% less salt in PvE or WvW.

    tdlr: There is no carrot on the stick.

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sovari.7246 said:
    I know a lot pf people who stopped playing pvp because they finished their backpack and don't have a goal anymore to lure them back. so.. I think if they added another backpack with achievements more casuals will probably return

    Then they really didn't enjoy pvp if they were playing just to get a backpack.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I mean, I can still find matches and lobbies bursting with people...

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fenom.9457 said:
    I mean, I can still find matches and lobbies bursting with people...

    You are EU?

    All the hustle and bustle seems to be afk because I see the same 10 players in NA and the occasional legendary tier players in duo in my games.

    So exciting.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Fenom.9457 said:
    I mean, I can still find matches and lobbies bursting with people...

    You are EU?

    All the hustle and bustle seems to be afk because I see the same 10 players in NA and the occasional legendary tier players in duo in my games.

    So exciting.

    Nope I'm NA

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fenom.9457 said:
    I mean, I can still find matches and lobbies bursting with people...

    Lot of those people in the lobby are probably just using the services (bank, TP, ect) and just because you can find games doesnt speak for their quality. I've been having a hell of a time even getting my button to queue for a match to work probably let alone find a decent game where it's a close match.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    few more things to add to the OP's list

    • the match making algorithm, it's horrible how some of the match-ups could be, especially seeing someone who have 'Unyielding Legend' title running around in Silver ranked matches, clearly the current ratings system in ranked isn't working; if dual queue is wrecking the algorithm, then remove it
    • more active suspension and ban hammers, too often i see botters, afkers, join and disconnecters; is free-to-play players able to join ranked? if that's that case, don't know if blocking free-to-play players will help (yeah, they can continue to burn money to buy new accounts, more money for Anet, less incentive for them to play with a paid account)
  • Silinsar.6298Silinsar.6298 Member ✭✭✭

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @Silinsar.6298 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    I tried checking out gw2 pvp again after getting bored of battle royale games and I just got reminded again why I left in the first place. Nowadays silver players get paired with rank 1-10 players from leaderboard because the population has never been lower and theres reasons for that.

    1. lack of updates towards pvp, it has never changed and stayed the same, couple of new maps and no other changes

    Yeah, PvP has been getting less and less attention. You don't need change for change's sake (aka don't unbalance what isn't broken), but some new maps or game modes would have been nice. ANet tried with the siege thing (don't even remember the name) and death match arena, but then didn't give them a q and just left them in the dust. Removing the water combat from sPvP also was an early indicator that they just didn't want to put in the effort to fix / balance it.

    1. power creep from elite specs, basically arena net has turned everyone into a super hero while having no downsides in their build like pre hot, theres no more giving up damage for sustain or for mobility, every build has everything and large AoE spam resulting in low skill floor which creates unbalanced matches since everyone is a God that means nobody is a god. Its like playing CS GO and everyone has aim bot and wall hacks on, how do you determinate who is the better player?

    I don't think powercreep has reduced the skill requirement of the game. There are just more situations now that are decided by builds / team composition IF everyone has reached a certain skill level. And fights tend to be more one sided, so there generally are lesser moments in which to apply skill. But you'll still need experience to be consistently successful. And in some matchups the difference really shows.
    While a good expansion spec might carry a player in some situations, those in which it doesn't become the deciding ones. And those are harder than before, because more stuff gets thrown around in less time while compared to that you could take time to really ponder how to use your skills pre hot. That also makes PvP less noob friendly compared to pre hot, imo. It became more action + reaction heavy and less tactical but the tactical part didn't get removed, it's still there somehow, you just have less time to think about it :) If you want to get into the "good" tactical part of PvP you basically have to automatize the mechanical part (which takes a lot of practice).

    1. Casual friendly mechanics such as passive traits and the overtuned downstate mechanics, when a player get downed they should be punished for the misplay but instead gw2 is the only game that gives really overpowered abilities in the downstate making it near impossible to win outnumbered fights since its so easy to res and interrupt the stomp, basically its easier to play defensively than offensively thus favoring the casual player more. Imagine playing PUBG squads and the downed player could throw smokes or molotovs at you etc, why is it so hard to kill someone that has already been partially defeated, to balance downstate there should be no abilities available aside from self res and it should take at least 2 other players to get the full res when 1 person is cleaving. Do not reward people for misplays. Same applies to passive traits like passive aegis, passive invul etc, basically making PvP too casual friendly made all the hardcore pvpers quit that are looking for a competitive game which brings me to reason number 4.

    I think the downed / res mechanic itself is fine in sPvP. The skills around it that allow near zero risk and/or fast ressing, and the fact that ANet never really got to balance the skills of the downed state itself. And I'd have liked to see them trying to scrap rally. I get the idea to make an exciting comeback, but when you got a very even and balanced team fight, 2 people down on every side, one of them just dies while one of the other team has 1% and it turns the whole thing around so much that what could continue as a even fight is now a complete blowout... it just ends a good fight midway.

    1. The competitive scene of gw2 has always been a niche instead of being the main focus, players were never incentivized to make teams because there was no tournaments and no rewards aside from ESL cups back then. This the game only stayed in a " yolo Q" only state and was never growing as a competitive game and its always been dominated by the same 2-3 teams because of lack of competition. PvP cannot survive without a competitive environment and gw2 never offered that environment except with ESL cups that had great rewards.

    I've never had any tournament ambitions, but from what I read and experienced myself (from those openly indicating they're part of it) many of the players engaging in the short ESL scene were downright toxic. You don't just need tournaments and rewards, you need a community people actually want to be part of.

    1. Lack of advertisment of the PvP part of the game, basically the PvP population stayed rather low at all times because there was incentive to try it and all the focus was mainly on the living story and the expansions, its like pvp was just a mini game and was something that was not important, even introducing a basic tutorial and giving people a few gold for trying out PvP would have made the population so much bigger and alot of players would end up staying and try to improve and be competitive but instead some people dont even know that pvp exists in gw2 because it was not being talked about.

    Kinda like the chicken / egg problem. What was there before: Few players because of little resources invested from ANet or little resources invested from ANet because there were so few payers?
    In GW1 there are low level arenas that would ease new players into PvP, you always play in a team (heros / henchies), mobs are set up in groups with reasonable compositions (frontline, casters, healers...) and use the same skills players can. The PvE in GW1 is basically teaching you PvP by letting you play vs bots with your own bots. And it felt very dynamic and tactical to me because of that. Imo GW1 is the better PvE and PvP game, but GW2 is newer, it's the better MMO and has a better combat system.

    1. Edit: Forgot an important one is lack of frequent balance patches . When it takes several months to fix an over performing build, people are not willing to wait till it gets fixed they will just quit and probably will not come back.

    Balance often is subjective. Sometimes an OP build seems less OP 2 months later because people figure out to fight it or adjust some things to bring more counters. Sometimes "OP" builds pop out of nowhere (without following a buff) because someone just discovered it handles the current meta well. Overhasty nerfs can be necessary in some cases, but I wouldn't say that was THE problem about ANet's balancing. ANet always tried slow and steady, to continuously gravitate towards the unreachable perfect balance. And it was just that, it worked, imo, it just wasn't good for keeping impatient players. And then they threw the whole thing, years of slow and steady balancing, a pretty well balanced state of the game, into the gutter with the trait overhauls & expansions. And they still stick to slow, but became less sensible (personal opinion) about how they handle things. And they scrapped the "steady" part, suddenly reworking things here or there (that might not need it to begin with) while doing nothing or almost irrelevant number changes in other spots.

    Theres alot more reasons but those are the main ones, its kinda sad to see this because this game had potential but it never reached it.

    Imo, GW2 PvP (and also WvW) could have benefited massively from dedicated community managers (and balance/dev teams in the background). Discussing in detail (as much as I appreciate them, not just a post every couple of months) why things don't change fast, how they're handling it, what their view on it and the data is, previewing and opening up changes to discussions, do some weekend-event tests (like for pof) for greater balance updates, ... The PvP development is basically below an indie-dev level (at least the impression of how much dedicated resources they provide for it is) and those HAVE to engage with their communities to keep them interested and invested and to make more people take a look at it. As sad as the layoffs were, the restructuring would have been the chance to make PvP a little bit more of a priority.

    And while the devs should have really upped their game in some areas, the community should have done so too. Matchmaking mixes plat with low golds, so don't ask of others what you couldn't achieve yourself (and be toxic about it), be willing to teach people. Welcome noobs. Don't expect the devs to specifically cater to your ideas of balance. Be a little patient or try to adjust a bit. Make your own tournaments. Don't shout "OP!" without giving any real arguments as soon as you encounter something new, a better player or 1 day after a patch.

    I'm sorry, but powercreep has most certainly lowered the skill requirement. This is not even a contest. When I can smash keys and get results on a new profession...that's a problem. It simply should not happen. There is no "tactical" part, it's all reaction based. Elite specs just stuff everything in one build--evades, damage, cc, defenses with basically no tradeoffs. All you really get are glass cannons and bunkers, there's nothing in between.

    If you smash keys and get results, your enemy's probably caught unaware, in a bad situation for that matchup, has CDs, a build that's ill suited to fight yours, or simply is worse than you. You probably won't be doing this for long vs different enemies with different builds unless they are just smashing keys as well. You need some mechanical skill, intuition and reactions to even have a chance, yes, but if you think reactions are all there is I have to disagree. If you never keep track of what skills your enemy still has off CD, what skill sequences he might use, plan your stun break use, bait / wait out dodges etc., use skills, defenses, and/or mobility when appropriate you might still get lucky and win, but those are still errors that cost you.
    The last two sentences kind of contradict themselves, you argue there's only 2 extremes, glassy damage builds and bunker builds, but what you describe before is the thing inbetween: bruisers. They opt for a combination of continued DPS and survival and do that to varying degrees. They excel at different situations and have different tools.

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Also, balance is not subjective, it has a clear meaning: the opposite of imbalance! And I'm seeing a LOT of imbalance. Examples are glass cannon builds like GS berserker with double axe which can one-shot professions. I'm sorry, but that simply should not exist in any structured pvp game unless it's a first-person shooter. Same goes with soulbeast, holo, rev, mirage, deadeye which are nothing but pve-centric glass cannon gimmicks.

    I see some imbalances, but probably not where you do and not so many. Your perception of (im)balance is different than mine. Sounds pretty subjective to me. GS/Axe berserker has clear weaknesses. It's melee only, telegraphed, can stealth or port, misses the SB and shield block, has no or very little CC ... That's not OP, that's an example of the concept of a highly damaging straight forward melee fighter. If you run into that and just smash your buttons, yeah, then might seem OP to you. But there are various counter play options.
    Saying one shots shouldn't exist is a preference for combat pacing. Having or not having one shots and higher TTK doesn't mean there's less or more balance. If you complain about gimmicks chances are they aren't as simple as you think and/or you just need a little more practice to deal with them.

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    I'm sorry, but current pvp caters to the pvers and pvp elitists. It is NOT pvp. There's nothing to defend here.

    How do you know the current state of PvP specifically caters to anyone? If PvErs would like it, PvP should have lots of new players. How do you define "pvp elitists"?
    Expansions were made for PvE while PvP & WvW took collateral damage from the e spec introductions.

    SD Engi / Holo roaming videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/algeyr

  • DoomNexus.5324DoomNexus.5324 Member ✭✭✭

    Quite a few people are criticising the lack of goal or reward they can grind for.
    For me this is so nonsensical I don't even know where to start. If your only motivation to play a certain game mode is purely because you want that juicy loot at the end of the journey, please just leave the game mode and do something else.
    Shiny stuff or text-labels below your name would be like the least interesting aspect I'd invest my resources into when there's still class and spec imbalance, a lack of updates in general (I honestly can't take Djinn's Dominion serious, that map is just SO underwhelming, really bad design gameplay wise), lack of basically everything.

    I'd like to see Anet actually making the game mode itself more enjoyable by fixing their stuff (aka balance, condition system against players, power-/heal creep, ... - I don't really care about build diversity tbh as long as every class has at least 1 viable build to play I'm fine) and introducing some new features like the swiss system everybody has been looking forward for ages, 2v2 tournaments, on-demand ATs, maybe even a reworked version of Stronghold mode or Spirit Watch for ranked.. There was also a 10v10 deathmatch mode under discussion if I'm not wrong (not for ranked tho but would still be a nice addition to the game mode itself)..
    Not another reward everybody is grinding for in this messy state we are currently in and have been for too long already. I'd even argue that new rewards would actually be detrimental. Just look at what was going on in WvW when Warclaw came out. Literally everybody was suddenly flooding WvW without any motivation to actually accomplish anything whatsoever, just to get the collection done and leave. You will for sure attract a lot of ppl but won't catch them in this PvP environment we currently have, unless there are some big changes first which make it enjoyable. Maybe if a lot of ppl get introduced to PvP who weren't interested before because of yet another shiny bling bling, they won't ever come back after having such a messy start.

  • Wolfey.3407Wolfey.3407 Member ✭✭

    @DoomNexus.5324 said:
    Quite a few people are criticising the lack of goal or reward they can grind for.
    For me this is so nonsensical I don't even know where to start. If your only motivation to play a certain game mode is purely because you want that juicy loot at the end of the journey, please just leave the game mode and do something else.

    "Agree with what I have to say or gtfo"
    So make the player base smaller and make it so everyone only shares your view.

    Not saying that's a bad idea... but ya....

    I do agree with your 2nd point with regards to Anet actually making the game mode itself more enjoyable.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    All I have is pepper. I play for the salt.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2019

    I know this is basically a "news from bermuda triangle" post here but..

    Reason i don't play is because of the heatwave. I don't wanna fry my laptop by playing gw2. Hi single core engine...
    Atm i play LoL as atrocious of a game it is, because it can be run on a potato. And while my gaming laptop can handle much more, i prefer not to test it's limits in such heat. Once weather cools down, Krytan Butcher will be back to take some heads in spvp.

  • Crypto.7609Crypto.7609 Member ✭✭
    edited June 26, 2019

    You forgot most important reason:
    Devs think they know what people want better than people themselves, even if we keep screaming into their ears that we want something, they'll keep ignoring it for years years and years, instead force-feeding players with something else that nobody asked for, obviously leading to people leaving after being sick of such "second-class citizen" treatment.

  • DoomNexus.5324DoomNexus.5324 Member ✭✭✭

    @Wolfey.3407 said:

    @DoomNexus.5324 said:
    Quite a few people are criticising the lack of goal or reward they can grind for.
    For me this is so nonsensical I don't even know where to start. If your only motivation to play a certain game mode is purely because you want that juicy loot at the end of the journey, please just leave the game mode and do something else.

    "Agree with what I have to say or gtfo"
    So make the player base smaller and make it so everyone only shares your view.

    No I'm not saying new rewards and stuff are a bad idea per se, but if people only play the game to get the reward at the end I honestly don't know why to even start playing the game mode in the first place.
    This is a very common problem especially in games like Call of Duty or Battlefield (at least in my experience). There are tons of ppl who only play the game (after a certain point where - apparently - it's not enjoyable anymore I dunno) until they've unlocked everything. Why even bother spending time playing a game (mode) which you don't enjoy playing for the sake of gameplay, just so you unlock things you'll never use because you leave the game afterwards?
    Sure, in GW2 you can also use/show rewards and titles and stuff elsewhere but still. I don't see the point.
    This is just a thing I'll never understand but on the other hand ofc I don't have to understand everything and everybody and it's not my business, so if this is what makes them happy, they should go for it. But where it starts to be my business is when ppl demand for new rewards which requires resources which - in my opinion - could be better spent somewhere else.

    Maybe I'm completely wrong here but I'd even argue that such people are not a healthy part of the competitive community, so the "make the player base smaller"-argument isn't really valid in my opinion. Let me explain:
    If your only interest is to get that shiny legendary backpiece and nothing else, would you even bother tryharding in a match if it's not an easy win or just afk in the base, wait until it's over and try your luck in the next match? Or if your only interest is to get that new title/gizmo and abandon the game mode until something new is released, would you really try to get it all by yourself, probably failing season after season just to get it at the 4th try (like.. 4th season ending which is approx. 1 year - or maybe even not at all) or would you rather just wintrade for a weekend towards the end of a season and get it like the next week.
    Since wintrading (especially during ~the last week before a season ends) and afk-ing is already a HUGE problem in sPvP and the gw2 community isn't really known for its patience when it comes to getting into new content once it's been released (like.. a lot of the players want everything just handed over to them with 0 effort, let's be honest here), I'd bet a not-so-neglectable portion of the playerbase would in both cases described above pick the second, easy option.

    Again. I don't say titles and rewards are bad, ofc I also enjoy something to display when I have accomplished something or when I'm getting some value out of it, but then again there are just too many issues that have to be fixed first urgently.

  • TamX.1870TamX.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    @DoomNexus.5324 said:
    If your only interest is to get that shiny legendary backpiece and nothing else, would you even bother tryharding in a match if it's not an easy win or just afk in the base, wait until it's over and try your luck in the next match? Or if your only interest is to get that new title/gizmo and abandon the game mode until something new is released, would you really try to get it all by yourself, probably failing season after season just to get it at the 4th try (like.. 4th season ending which is approx. 1 year - or maybe even not at all) or would you rather just wintrade for a weekend towards the end of a season and get it like the next week.

    I fully agree with this.

    I would like to emphasize how this is entirely dictated by the game mode and its mechanics. Let's say GW2 PvP would be bit similar to Runescape, where when you loose, winners will loot your gears and gold. That game mode would benefit by luring newbies in the arena by rewards, just for them to find out that they keep loosing their resources if they don't either stop or start working harder for winning. Another example could be Travian, where you will need weaker players around you to make them your resource farms, and thus being able to compete for round victory.

    I would like to say again, that I see the solo/duo queueing in to competitive 5vs5 fight one of the main problems. IIRC, for example World of Tanks has such game mode (was it 10vs10 or so, and you queue to matches like you do here), but it is not for compete, but for daily grinding stuff to get you to competitions, which are meant for premade teams, usually formed by guilds.

    That is why I would put my money for building all competitive game modes around premade teams: (1) solo queue to 1vs1 and all vs all arenas, (2) duo queue to 2vs2 matches, (3) queue with full 5-man team to 5vs5 matches. Solo/duo/trio queueing to 5-man team fights, where team will then be completed by matchmaker, should IMO only be for practicing or possibly a way for pro teams to search for potential reinforcements to their team base. I find it really, really difficult that here at PvP side such a mode is the main game mode, and I expect it to have all sorts of nasty side effects (bots, wintrading etc).

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