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Nerf Mantra Mesmers and Revenants


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@toxic.3648 said:ye lets nerf the underperforming mes even more since ppl cant be bothered to dodge \o/ kitten mes to the ground ppl ! get the pitchforks and kitten , lets do this !!!

If they nerf mesmer any further..you can jump on ele lightning rod or fire weaver and become even more victorious than before, in fact you'll be sitting top 100 with all the other 99 eles

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Chorazin.4107" said:How the kitten did this thread arise with Holosmiths running around?

Holo can't be OP because Holo loses to Holo depending on who has stab.Holo loses to a lot of matchups... Fire weaver...and ....emm...holo vs holo depends on who has the stab © - Guess who said that on previous monthlyOkay thats not really about the mesmer now :D

Holosmith: Being an easy spec means that all kind of players will abuse it.....
skill level in a matchup is a thing
You must be genius! /sLets assume holo facerollers by default are way more skilled than others ?:DJustify spec being broken asf because in mirror matchup it wins itself?

The more I read the forum...the more I realize how lost is its userbase, I was not referring to holo vs holo but..whatever. ....I still don't understand how people can spend all day on the forum asking for nerfs left and right....do people think that Anet will sit and say : "ok let's nerf to the ground everything so that Mister X can win always 1v1 and against everything from now till the end of times"....lol ridiculous as it sounds I am starting to think that's the case.

One thing I have always wished to see is those asking for nerfs being forced to play the target of their cries...and except them to reach top positions in all modes within months, with videos showcases of them facing skilled players on other professions...would they fail to do so...I would punish them,
may they stop believe to be all knowing masters of the universe
lol

.....Arent you the same person who made " nerf mirage and holo" threads? And a scourge complaint thread? Pot calling kettle.

I mean...are we seriously stating that nerf threads for mesmers/holos and scourge were unwarranted? In this same thread some have claimed that a
lightning rod ele
is far stronger than a mantra shatter mesmer....the statement was one of the most funny comments I read in the last couple of years on this forum..I'd make a celebration thread but...the mod police is around you know...Why wouldnt you quote me directly, mister Punisher?In this same thread some have claimed that a
lightning rod ele
is far stronger than a mantra shatter mesmer.^ Straight up lie, never did that. You want to celebrate that? Can you get even more ridiculous ?
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@"shadowpass.4236" said:The season I got r2 I played around 20-25% of my games on mesmer. It's also my third most played class, so I understand how it works.

Also, it's not really a L2P issue on my part either. I guess EU mesmers can't land instant cast bursts? lol and you guys say NA players are badits not that the mesmers cant land burst cuz they suck. ppl just know how to dodge a combo used since 2012 in EU by now.

  1. Funnily enough, for @"Xstein.2187" asking me to get top 10 in ranked with it... In the first and second screenshots, Mur is r7 and r10 respectively and uses the mantra mesmer build religiously to farm the leaderboards. So clearly, it's been a viable build at high ratings for at least several PvP seasons.if burst dosnt come from stealth, u dodge when u see the giant greatsword come flying. its that simple rly. i wouldnt call a build which burst get ez negated like that "high tier"
  2. Zeromis, the best mesmer on NA (and probably the best mesmer in general) also thinks mantras are ez mode. You can see how easy the burst is to land in this clip and Shorts isn't even on mirage.landing burst from stealth is ez. u can do that on sic'em soulbeast too.
  3. Realistically, the mantra combos should land 100% of the time. The build doesn't insta die in longer fights either as shown in this clip. The fight lasted about 30-40 seconds and went back and forth. You can see nearly, if not all, mantra charges landing consistently against one of the best players in the game running a well-rounded build that has won him several monthlies.try pit that mesmer up against a war/holo/herald, heck any of the real overperforming specs with same player skill and ull see mez is ez farmable
  4. Furthermore, Mantra of Distraction + Power Block is hands down THE strongest interaction in the game. The combination of the two can effectively prevent a player from casting their heal skill indefinitely.i agree with that one, that cd interrupt/prolonging is stupid
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@"shadowpass.4236" said:The season I got r2 I played around 20-25% of my games on mesmer. It's also my third most played class, so I understand how it works.

Also, it's not really a L2P issue on my part either. I guess EU mesmers can't land instant cast bursts? lol and you guys say NA players are bad

  1. Funnily enough, for @"Xstein.2187" asking me to get top 10 in ranked with it... In the first and second screenshots, Mur is r7 and r10 respectively and uses the mantra mesmer build religiously to farm the leaderboards. So clearly, it's been a viable build at high ratings for at least several PvP seasons.
  2. Zeromis, the best mesmer on NA (and probably the best mesmer in general) also thinks mantras are ez mode. You can see how easy the burst is to land in this clip and Shorts isn't even on mirage.
  3. Realistically, the mantra combos should land 100% of the time. The build doesn't insta die in longer fights either as shown in this clip. The fight lasted about 30-40 seconds and went back and forth. You can see nearly, if not all, mantra charges landing consistently against one of the best players in the game running a well-rounded build that has won him several monthlies.
  4. Furthermore, Mantra of Distraction + Power Block is hands down THE strongest interaction in the game. The combination of the two can effectively prevent a player from casting their heal skill indefinitely.

Mirages (and mesmers in general) are still ridiculously strong. The people who say otherwise simply don't know how to play the class. As for the people saying I'm making this thread to detract from Sic Em ranger nerf threads, that's not the case. I've stated multiple times in the past that I do not use that skill and couldn't care less if it was removed from the game. Sic Em is a bad, gimmicky utility tied to an easily mitigated burst that doesn't work against good players unlike builds/classes like (mantra) mesmers and power heralds.

Dude, you don't get it. I'm not saying you are bad at PvP. I'm just saying what you posted earlier in the forums by itself was not good evidence. You can continue to argue all you want about mesmer, but it doesn't change the bases of what you posted earlier. I could say the earth is round, which is true. However, if I say the earth is round because the sky is blue, it is a bad argument. You could throw in all the evidence that earth is round you can think of but it doesn't make the argument "the earth is round because the sky is blue" a good argument. What my point was is what you posted up was not good evidence and Anet should have collected all the evidence they need on their own since they collect statistics.

However, just for fun, lets go through what you said:

  1. You post a screenshot of you at rank 2 from a year ago on soalbeast. Ok, the screenshot doesn't have anything to do with mesmer or your previous argument obviously buuuuut, I get it, you wanted to show that you are good at PvP. I understand that if you took the time to look for that screenshot that I must have damaged your ego a bit. However, that was not my intention. I never questioned weather or not you were good at PvP or weather or not you knew how to play mesmer. I questioned the validity of your argument.

  2. In the screenshot you pulled up, Mur only had 11 games. I just checked the leaderboards right now and he is ranked number 20. I am ok with nerfing mesmer as long as every single other type of class that is in ranked above him is also nerfed by at least the same, if not more based on the # of profession types above and their rank. Once again, if a person being rank #20 is your best argument, then I don't know what else to tell you.

  3. I mean, what the ?????? Did you just post the video and expect no one to actually watch it? I'll invite anyone to watch the video you just posted because I did indeed see bursts that were missed, and the video was of shorts, one of the best mesmers, and he still missed contrary to what you said when you posted the video here. Additionally, did you see how many times shorts died in the video you posted? Now compare it to how often Helseth used to die in his videos.

  4. Yes, power block with mantra of distractions is good. Its one of the only reason people take the domination trait line anymore. However, it is not all powerful and the be all end all. A good example is at 9 min of the video you posted how the mesmer shorts was playing against interrupted him with focus so he couldn't use mantra. lo and behold, shorts ended up dying in that fight afterwards.

  5. I have said multiple times on the forums that 'lost time' could use a nerf because one shots don't allow counter-play. However, is the build as a whole OP? No, for example, they could potentially nerf lost time to make it less bursty and then buff power chrono with sustain instead and it will be perfectly fine and not the OP wonder you seem to make it out to be. For god sakes though, even with lost time, the video you literally posted as proof shows that bursts don't land all the time and not every burst leads to an automatic kill, and you posted that as your best evidence.

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@"toxic.3648" said:

  1. its not that the mesmers cant land burst cuz they suck. ppl just know how to dodge a combo used since 2012 in EU by now.
  2. if burst dosnt come from stealth, u dodge when u see the giant greatsword come flying. its that simple rly. i wouldnt call a build which burst get ez negated like that "high tier"
  3. landing burst from stealth is ez. u can do that on sic'em soulbeast too.
  4. try pit that mesmer up against a war/holo/herald, heck any of the real overperforming specs with same player skill and ull see mez is ez farmable
  1. Nah that's exactly what I'm saying lmao. You guys aren't dodging instant cast mantras... the other players are simply missing them. It's literally impossible to whiff MoP and MoD if your timing isn't garbage, hence what I mean when I say EU mesmers don't know how to play properly.
  2. Not really... Blink + Diversion has no animation and it can be used whilst casting GS2. If EU mesmers are chucking mirror blades across the map from max range with no setup/cc then yeah I can see why they can't kill anything xd
  3. The Worldly Impact SE build is actually a meme and any competent player can just walk away when they see the ranger stealth and they can't hit you. The longbow damage on rapid fire can be avoided by going invuln sometime during the cast and/or walking behind LoS.
  4. Mesmer wins against warrior, soulbeast, and herald. The only losing matchup it has in the 4 you listed is holo but even then the holo would never be able to kill the mes unless they over-commit.
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Mantras don't have animations, which I am not too fond of either. However, they are almost always used with mirror blade and therefore very easy to predict.That by itself doesn't make it OP IMO, especially based on other evidence. However, I agree that no animations are bad. On the other hand though, I think they balanced and designed mantras with knowing they didn't have cast times in mind.

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@"shadowpass.4236" said:The season I got r2 I played around 20-25% of my games on mesmer. It's also my third most played class, so I understand how it works.

Also, it's not really a L2P issue on my part either. I guess EU mesmers can't land instant cast bursts? lol and you guys say NA players are bad

  1. Funnily enough, for @"Xstein.2187" asking me to get top 10 in ranked with it... In the first and second screenshots, Mur is r7 and r10 respectively and uses the mantra mesmer build religiously to farm the leaderboards. So clearly, it's been a viable build at high ratings for at least several PvP seasons.
  2. Zeromis, the best mesmer on NA (and probably the best mesmer in general) also thinks mantras are ez mode. You can see how easy the burst is to land in this clip and Shorts isn't even on mirage.
  3. Realistically, the mantra combos should land 100% of the time. The build doesn't insta die in longer fights either as shown in this clip. The fight lasted about 30-40 seconds and went back and forth. You can see nearly, if not all, mantra charges landing consistently against one of the best players in the game running a well-rounded build that has won him several monthlies.
  4. Furthermore, Mantra of Distraction + Power Block is hands down THE strongest interaction in the game. The combination of the two can effectively prevent a player from casting their heal skill indefinitely.

Mirages (and mesmers in general) are still ridiculously strong. The people who say otherwise simply don't know how to play the class. As for the people saying I'm making this thread to detract from Sic Em ranger nerf threads, that's not the case. I've stated multiple times in the past that I do not use that skill and couldn't care less if it was removed from the game. Sic Em is a bad, gimmicky utility tied to an easily mitigated burst that doesn't work against good players unlike builds/classes like (mantra) mesmers and power heralds.I cant even.... After your ridiculous claims at the start of the post and your proofs from unranked... Now start of the season is a solid proof... of NA....where gold2 player got GOD OF PVP with 90% winrate.... Wasnt there eternal defender (not seller of top titles 100%,not accusing anyone) occupying top 5 places of NA leaderboard singlehandedly, according to one famous streamer and many rumors spreading around? All classes he play are valid to get smitersbooned?If its true that ONE person SINGLE HANDEDLY hold top5 places... that leaderboard is a JOKE.The game you linked its a solid proof for my posts, @Lincolnbeard.1735 , @bravan.3876 and so on.Made a link where Zeromis loses once but didnt link where Zeromis left him not a single chance later, where Shorts approached from stealth as well.That holo had utility googles as utility... what is that...1400 rating holo? Even then Shorts loses badly to him in a 1x1 that you also didnt show, each time engi is on shorts, he cant do anything but run away, his attempt to oneshot at bell was met with a block and his death later as he tried.There was 2-3 moments where he blow up zeromis and end up dying himself and Zeromis getting revived, as he cant get away anywhere after that.You didnt want to argue anymore, what changed?

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@"Xstein.2187"

I don't really have any interest in going back and forth like this so I'll just say a bit and leave it at that.

  1. The leaderboards aren't always a great indicator of what specs are overperforming. Just because the top spots aren't completely dominated by mantra mesmers doesn't mean the builds aren't chock-full of unhealthy mechanics (high impact, instant cast abilities) with frequent one-shot potential and high mobility.
  2. Whilst Shorts is probably considered decent at mesmer I wouldn't consider him a top, top player. I've played with/against him enough times to know that his rotations and communication on VC aren't the best. Even combat-wise the clips and videos he posts are him cherry-picking good fights/matches.
    • Personally, I think CJ and Mur are both way scarier to fight on mantras than Shorts. CJ has fought me in the finals of a 1v1 tourny and he gave me one of the longest, most intense fights against a core mesmer I've ever had. It lasted for over 15 minutes, streamed on twitch to over 100 people, and I had to play/predict perfectly or I would've gotten one-shot.
    • Mur can time his bursts well and I can say that against all of the mantra mesmers I've fought, Mur is the only one who has been able to consistently one-shot me if I don't know he's coming.
  3. That fight at 9 minutes into the video is a perfect example of what I'm talking about...
    • Top players like Zeromis have very good awareness. He would've easily seen Short's name pop out from behind that corner as well as the animation for Mass Invisibility and Torch 4. Shorts also wasted his Blurred Frenzy on nothing and simply played that fight extremely poorly.
    • The first clip I posted is a good execution of the burst and it's one of the most reliable combos to land in the game. There was nothing Zeromis could've done differently in that situation as he had no idea Shorts was there.
  4. Again, I don't have personal footage of myself playing mesmer so Shorts was an easy-to-find, decent example of how to hit mantras. Like I said before, he's not the best player so I wouldn't expect him to land every one of his bursts.
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@shadowpass.4236 said:

  1. Nah that's exactly what I'm saying lmao. You guys aren't dodging instant cast mantras... the other players are simply missing them. It's literally impossible to whiff MoP and MoD if your timing isn't garbage, hence what I mean when I say EU mesmers don't know how to play properly.i can understand that would land when mantras actually stunned ppl so u couldnt dodge. now not so much. dodge 4head
  2. Not really... Blink + Diversion has no animation and it can be used whilst casting GS2. If EU mesmers are chucking mirror blades across the map from max range with no setup/cc then yeah I can see why they can't kill anything xdye lets use one of the only stuns on 40sec cd to land the burst, if that fails then what? stab/invul/dodge counters this build so hard i have no idea why a highrated player is even complaining about this crap at this point. i honestly thought it was a meme first time i saw the thread. now im just sad ._.
  3. The Worldly Impact SE build is actually a meme and any competent player can just walk away when they see the ranger stealth and they can't hit you. The longbow damage on rapid fire can be avoided by going invuln sometime during the cast and/or walking behind LoS.this exact argument can be used against mes burst too u know.
  4. Mesmer wins against warrior, soulbeast, and herald. The only losing matchup it has in the 4 you listed is holo but even then the holo would never be able to kill the mes unless they over-commit.ive only lost to 3 powermesmers in all the time ive dueled ppl. either because they were that good or i misplayed. everyone else gets farmed when u know the burst is comming. imho powermes is the last somewhat viable build mes has, lets not nerf them out of existense now
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@praqtos.9035

I have no interest in talking with you. Shorts isn't the best player so don't take his gameplay videos as the end-all-be-all of what mesmer is capable of.

At 9 minutes, it would've been pretty easy to see Shorts coming. It's not really surprising that Zeromis was expecting the burst. These things should be obvious. Your belief that Short's awful stealth opener is indicative of the build's potential is why I feel like I'm wasting my time explaining concepts/situations that will go right over your head.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:@"praqtos.9035"

I have no interest in talking with you. Shorts isn't the best player so don't take his gameplay videos as the end-all-be-all of what mesmer is capable of.

At 9 minutes, it would've been pretty easy to see Shorts coming. It's not really surprising that Zeromis was expecting the burst. These things should be obvious. Your belief that Short's awful stealth opener is indicative of the build's potential is only one reason why I feel like I'm wasting my time explaining concepts/situations that will go right over your head.Then dont create whine-threads and dont respond to anyone who you dont like with a meme "proof" from unranked/NA memeboard of 15 games .Is that what you capable of ? Insults and "I dont want to argue with people who proved me wrong" ?

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@toxic.3648 said:

  1. i can understand that would land when mantras actually stunned ppl so u couldnt dodge. now not so much. dodge 4head
  2. ye lets use one of the only stuns on 40sec cd to land the burst, if that fails then what? stab/invul/dodge counters this build so hard i have no idea why a highrated player is even complaining about this kitten at this point. i honestly thought it was a meme first time i saw the thread. now im just sad ._.
  3. this exact argument can be used against mes burst too u know.
  4. ive only lost to 3 powermesmers in all the time ive dueled ppl. either because they were that good or i misplayed. everyone else gets farmed when u know the burst is comming. imho powermes is the last somewhat viable build mes has, lets not nerf them out of existense now
  1. lol what... MoD being a daze has no impact on how easy it is to land instant cast mantras. Do you think a thief needs to stun before they steal? Nope.
  2. So you just hold onto diversion because you can't time it properly and are afraid it'll miss? It shouldn't fail, Genius. It's instant cast. The skill is literally impossible to miss unless you have garbage timing.
  3. Lmao no. You want to walk away from a mantra mesmer attempting to burst you? Congratulations he just blinked to you and you died. You want to LoS the burst? Congratulations he just blinked around the wall and you died.
  4. I don't doubt it. Not that the build is hard to play, but there are only 2-3 players that I'd consider good at power mes. 99.5% of the players in this game have no idea what they're doing.

I don't have an issue with power mesmer. I have an issue with mantras. MoD + MoP is like having 4 steals on half the cooldown with double the damage. These skills shouldn't exist. Zeromis' build on the other hand takes a lot of skill to play properly and I respect him for that.

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@praqtos.9035 said:

I have no interest in talking with you. Shorts isn't the best player so don't take his gameplay videos as the end-all-be-all of what mesmer is capable of.

At 9 minutes, it would've been pretty easy to see Shorts coming. It's not really surprising that Zeromis was expecting the burst. These things should be obvious. Your belief that Short's awful stealth opener is indicative of the build's potential is only one reason why I feel like I'm wasting my time explaining concepts/situations that will go right over your head.Then dont create whine-threads and dont respond to anyone who you dont like with a meme "proof" from unranked/NA memeboard of 15 games .Is that what you capable of ? Insults and "I dont want to argue with people who proved me wrong" ?

It's a public forum, Brainiac. I can create threads if I want to and respond to who I'd like.

Sorry you can't land instant cast skills o/

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@shadowpass.4236

Sounds good,I originally planned to post just because of the argument and nothing more.I agree that full on reliably 100-0 one shooting is unhealthy.I just think there is a difference between unhealthy and OP, or that they are different concepts.I believe the leaderboards is one of the very good ways to determine OP. However, I agree that it can't determine unhealthy, especially when 'unhealthy' at times can be a somewhat arbitrary concept that the players themselves may disagree on. For example, I don't think mesmers having clones or putting multiple targets on the screen has anything to do with unhealthy (on its own). It is just a different play style.

Not fun to play against doesn't automatically mean 'unhealthy' either. Though, unhealthy can frequently mean not fun.I just don't want people to misconstrue the two.

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@Xstein.2187 said:@shadowpass.4236

Sounds good,I originally posted just because of the argument.I agree that full on reliably 100-0 one shooting is unhealthy.I just think there is a difference between unhealthy and OP, or that they are different concepts.I believe the leaderboards is one of the very good ways to determine OP. However, I agree that it can't determine unhealthy, especially when 'unhealthy' at times can be a somewhat arbitrary concept that the players themselves may disagree on.

Thanks for your feedback mate. I'm not saying my opinions are correct, but I've been playing long enough to understand what works and what doesn't against a variety of skill ranges. I only come on the forums if I see severe misinformation/there are actually pretty big balance issues which is why you'll see me occasionally on threads like these.

Again, I appreciate constructive discussions with people who are willing to take and give new ideas and perspectives. And, whilst I agree with your distinction between the definitions for unhealthy versus overpowered, I'd like to add that there are occasionally/frequently overlaps. Cheers

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

  1. i can understand that would land when mantras actually stunned ppl so u couldnt dodge. now not so much. dodge 4head
  2. ye lets use one of the only stuns on 40sec cd to land the burst, if that fails then what? stab/invul/dodge counters this build so hard i have no idea why a highrated player is even complaining about this kitten at this point. i honestly thought it was a meme first time i saw the thread. now im just sad ._.
  3. this exact argument can be used against mes burst too u know.
  4. ive only lost to 3 powermesmers in all the time ive dueled ppl. either because they were that good or i misplayed. everyone else gets farmed when u know the burst is comming. imho powermes is the last somewhat viable build mes has, lets not nerf them out of existense now
  1. lol what... MoD being a daze has no impact on how easy it is to land instant cast mantras. Do you think a thief needs to stun before they steal? Nope.and again , mes burst wont land unless they lock ppl in place. again dodge the burst and ull be golden(its not the mantras killing u, its the gs burst + shatter)
  2. So you just hold onto diversion because you can't time it properly and are afraid it'll miss? It shouldn't fail, Genius. It's instant cast. The skill is literally impossible to miss unless you have garbage timing.ye only problem is most stunbreaks are on shorter cd than that stun, stab also exist, so does invul. so again dodge 4head
  3. Lmao no. You want to walk away from a mantra mesmer attempting to burst you? Congratulations he just blinked to you and you died. You want to LoS the burst? Congratulations he just blinked around the wall and you died.dud they will be no attempt to burst since it wont land due to beforementioned reasons
  4. I don't doubt it. Not that the build is hard to play, but there are only 2-3 players that I'd consider good at power mes. 99.5% of the players in this game have no idea what they're doing.tbh i tried being nice about it but it sounds like a l2p issue on ur end if u are dying to this. it rly does. i cant fathom how u cant predict the burst and just dodge. brings the question how high tier NA is compared to EU if this is what a hightier player is complaining about.I don't have an issue with power mesmer. I have an issue with mantras. MoD + MoP is like having 4 steals on half the cooldown with double the damage. These skills shouldn't exist. Zeromis' build on the other hand takes a lot of skill to play properly and I respect him for that.ye except these mantras dosnt stun/steal ur boons. seems like legit steals mate /s

edit: thought id mention this. if u died to a burst like this it means u got outplayed or the mes player is simply better than u. it does NOT mean that its broken, that is all

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@toxic.3648

Aight like I've said to several other people, I have no interest in going back and forth like this.

It should be pretty obvious by my previous/current rankings that it's not a L2P issue. I have no issues dealing with the majority of mantra mesmers because they can't time their skills properly. However, stick a good player on the build and they will have no problems landing the one-shots.

Instead, I'm dealing with a bunch of people from EU telling me that mantra bursts are hard to land. Like... really?? lmaoo

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

I have no interest in talking with you. Shorts isn't the best player so don't take his gameplay videos as the end-all-be-all of what mesmer is capable of.

At 9 minutes, it would've been pretty easy to see Shorts coming. It's not really surprising that Zeromis was expecting the burst. These things should be obvious. Your belief that Short's awful stealth opener is indicative of the build's potential is only one reason why I feel like I'm wasting my time explaining concepts/situations that will go right over your head.Then dont create whine-threads and dont respond to anyone who you dont like with a meme "proof" from unranked/NA memeboard of 15 games .Is that what you capable of ? Insults and "I dont want to argue with people who proved me wrong" ?

It's a public forum, Brainiac. I can create threads if I want to and respond to who I'd like.Such a compliment, thank you!Sorry you can't land instant cast skills o/
Mur can time his bursts well and I can say that against all of the mantra mesmers I've fought, Mur is the only one who has been able to consistently one-shot me if I don't know he's coming.So we came to a source of this rant... Finally ... A perfectly executed burst by a very good player... IF YOU DONT KNOW HE IS COMING.....So basically admit all your "cant LoS,cant dodge,cant block and only invul saves you" is nothing but to make your "agument" looks better? While also 100% confirmed my first post of the thread.You just buried yourself with your own words
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@shadowpass.4236 said:@toxic.3648

Aight like I've said to several other people, I have no interest in going back and forth like this.

It should be pretty obvious by my previous/current rankings that it's not a L2P issue. I have no issues dealing with the majority of mantra mesmers because they can't time their skills properly. However, stick a good player on the build and they will have no problems landing the one-shots.

Instead, I'm dealing with a bunch of people from EU telling me that mantra bursts are hard to land. Like... really?? lmaoo

no u are dealing with ppl trying to tell u that its not a problem landing the burst if ur enemy dont dodge and u need to learn how to dodge this it seems.besides, stick a good player behind any class and they will do well. mantra mes included, that dosnt mean it suddenly becomes broken because a godtier player is behind the wheels, just means he is godtier player.

that is all

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@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Dueling illusion is stronger than domination anyway, double mind wrack and quickness is too valuable. I do agree with lost time getting the glacial hammer / shattered aegis / smiters boon treatment.Everything you mentioned is nothing alike.I alrdy said that if you want to nerf lost time then lightning rod should be nerfed as well. Two similar traits with an exception lrod hit twice as much. If they do then compensate its loss(both traits)Imagine complain about full zerk mesmer when mesmer viability depends on chaos interruption... Nerf threads soon tm

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@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Dueling illusion is stronger than domination anyway, double mind wrack and quickness is too valuable. I do agree with lost time getting the glacial hammer / shattered aegis / smiters boon treatment.

Talking about Mirage or?If mirage this is not correct for sure in wvw at least

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:So we began with all mesmers who can't land the burst are bad, burst is easy to land 100% of times, mesmers should get nerfed.And now we are with only mur can one shot me if I don't see him coming because I'm awesome rank 2 and trash all those op mesmers, nerf mesmers still.He don't want to admit if someone is simply better than him. And ofc nerf good players that kills him... He shouldnt die to good players so Anet must nerf a build they use

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Not sure why i still get notifications from this thread, i wasn't even quoted :astonished:

It is hard to deal with all the biased opinions (in both directions) i had to read during searching the one directed to me ( which i couldn't find).

  • I think it is in terms of logic quite clear that Mantra of Pain is a braindead mechanic, max range instant and nearly permanent spammable too high dmg. It should get a cd on recharge and inbetween uses at least and should make less dmg. Or rework into something else.
  • Mantra of Distraction itself is not a problem, because it needs to be combined with other skills to make dmg, when a mesmer just spam it for daze he will not be annoying at all nor will he win any fights vs any other build in the game. Without the stun everything that is combined with this mantra can be dodged. For a non-reactive oneshot playstyle it is not useful anymore. And this was the only use it was op at. The stun is gone, means no problem with this mantra anymore. It also needs to be instant and ranged to make any sense for a reactive interrupt build. You cannot predict everything to precast interrupt skills which have a casttime themself. With only daze it is only an interrupt skill not a lockdown skill (aside from a use with CI). Predicting is only possible for heals often and very few other big skills in duels sometimes (even there not always and in conquest in teamfights mostly not) and only vs ppl not good enough to be unpredictable. This mantra is even one of the most skilled and reactive utilities Mesmer has. With a balanced trait like Powerblock it is neither broken nor easy to play. It doesn't reward the player enough to only random interrupt autoattacks. With Powerblock you need to interrupt big skills otherwise you will not have a lot of impact or dmg and Mental Anguish would be more rewarding as a trait. Ofc it is annoying to fight against but only when it is played very well. A mesmer not remarkable above my skill lvl will not kill me with it on any other build in the meta (1 exceptions because it simply gets countered by it is my Necro). Zeromis Signet spam build, in particular Signet of Illusion is way easier and more spammy to play compared to this Mantra. And from the PoV of someone mostly on the receiving side of Powermesmer skills i find it way harder to fight against because it can dodge for days (with double mirrors from f4) + double Distortion. It might be harder to play than non-reactive oneshot double mantra Mesmer but not harder than interrupt Mesmer with only Mantra Of Distraction and only Powerblock.
  • I agree that Mantra of Distraction indeed becomes a problem when it is combined with broken traits, as there are Lost Time and Chaotic Interruption atm. Lost Time turns Mantra of Distraction into the same braindead instant range dmg stuff as Mantra of Pain. These traits need a nerf or rework. I already explained why these traits are overperforming, i don't do it again.
  • I also explained why you find way more Powermesmer, in particular oneshot Mesmer in NA, also in high ranks, than in EU and don't do that again either. In general i think NA simply has too less competition to be an indicator for what is op or for the skill lvl of ppl. I am not biased vs NA and i don't say that NA doesn't have good player or even top player. I know they have. Still, make Zeromis come EU, i would like to see how he does vs several power Mesmer here. Guessing from what i have seen of him in streams, I am very sure quite a few would stomp him.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Dueling illusion is stronger than domination anyway, double mind wrack and quickness is too valuable. I do agree with lost time getting the glacial hammer / shattered aegis / smiters boon treatment.

I would not say it is stronger, it is just easier to play because you don't rly have to do anything reactive than spamming lower cd skills. A very well played interrupt Mesmer peeling for teammates, interrupting big skills, applying weakness and so on can do way more for the team than a raw dmg spam build. I would go that far to say that on higher skill lvl of the Mesmer a domination interrupt Mesmer outperforms an illusion duelling build in conquest.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:So we began with all mesmers who can't land the burst are bad, burst is easy to land 100% of times, mesmers should get nerfed.And now we are with only mur can one shot me if I don't see him coming because I'm awesome rank 2 and trash all those op mesmers, nerf mesmers still.

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:So we began with all mesmers who can't land the burst are bad, burst is easy to land 100% of times, mesmers should get nerfed.And now we are with only mur can one shot me if I don't see him coming because I'm awesome rank 2 and trash all those op mesmers, nerf mesmers still.He don't want to admit if someone is simply better than him. And ofc nerf good players that kills him... He shouldnt die to good players so Anet must nerf a build they use

I had a good laugh, yes hypocrite lvl is high in this thread

@shadowpass.4236

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