Nerf Mantra Mesmers and Revenants

[Vague Memory.2817]

I can't believe people are still complaining about mesmers. Mes have been the most nerfed class of them all. Some specs are not even viable in sPvP any more. Power chrono is a joke compared to other elites. The devs have even nerfed several core traits to uselessness which has affected all builds. Mirage literally revolves around two skills now, that's it! I seen core burn guards, warr, thieves and hold there own against elite specs, where core mes is a liability in PvP only fit for open world PvE. Seriously I think the problem some people have with Mes is they just can't distinguish the player from clones, which is what the whole base core mechanic of the class is about since the start of gw2. So what I think some people are really saying is that they won't be happy until the whole class is deleted.

[Gamble.4580]

@Vague Memory.2817 said:I can't believe people are still complaining about mesmers. Mes have been the most nerfed class of them all. Some specs are not even viable in sPvP any more. Power chrono is a joke compared to other elites. The devs have even nerfed several core traits to uselessness which has affected all builds. Mirage literally revolves around two skills now, that's it! I seen core burn guards, warr, thieves and hold there own against elite specs, where core mes is a liability in PvP only fit for open world PvE. Seriously I think the problem some people have with Mes is they just can't distinguish the player from clones, which is what the whole base core mechanic of the class is about since the start of gw2. So what I think some people are really saying is that they won't be happy until the whole class is deleted.

You hit the nail on its head with this comment.I feel mes is fine don’t bother me on any class as op but I can understand how new players would react to them. Maybe delete all clones and make mes have just auto attack? But some may still get kills vs new players so maybe nurf it’s dps by 50% also and see how it goes from there.

[bravan.3876]

@Gamble.4580 said:

@Vague Memory.2817 said:I can't believe people are still complaining about mesmers. Mes have been the most nerfed class of them all. Some specs are not even viable in sPvP any more. Power chrono is a joke compared to other elites. The devs have even nerfed several core traits to uselessness which has affected all builds. Mirage literally revolves around two skills now, that's it! I seen core burn guards, warr, thieves and hold there own against elite specs, where core mes is a liability in PvP only fit for open world PvE. Seriously I think the problem some people have with Mes is they just can't distinguish the player from clones, which is what the whole base core mechanic of the class is about since the start of gw2. So what I think some people are really saying is that they won't be happy until the whole class is deleted.

You hit the nail on its head with this comment.I feel mes is fine don’t bother me on any class as op but I can understand how new players would react to them. Maybe delete all clones and make mes have just auto attack? But some may still get kills vs new players so maybe nurf it’s dps by 50% also and see how it goes from there.

Jawgeous the mesmer and balance pro already mentioned, that sword autoattack chain is op and has too much of everything. You are onto something buddy! /s

[Math.5123]

@Heartpains.7312 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Dueling illusion is stronger than domination anyway, double mind wrack and quickness is too valuable. I do agree with lost time getting the glacial hammer / shattered aegis / smiters boon treatment.

Talking about Mirage or?If mirage this is not correct for sure in wvw at least

Yes, I'm talking about mirage from a PvP perspective. > @praqtos.9035 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Dueling illusion is stronger than domination anyway, double mind wrack and quickness is too valuable. I do agree with lost time getting the glacial hammer / shattered aegis / smiters boon treatment.Everything you mentioned is nothing alike.I alrdy said that if you want to nerf lost time then lightning rod should be nerfed as well. Two similar traits with an exception lrod hit twice as much. If they do then compensate its loss(both traits)Imagine complain about full zerk mesmer when mesmer viability depends on chaos interruption... Nerf threads soon

tm

Guard got no compensation. Lost time still has a very strong slow tied to it.

[praqtos.9035]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Heartpains.7312 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Dueling illusion is stronger than domination anyway, double mind wrack and quickness is too valuable. I do agree with lost time getting the glacial hammer / shattered aegis / smiters boon treatment.

Talking about Mirage or?If mirage this is not correct for sure in wvw at least

Yes, I'm talking about mirage from a PvP perspective.You are pretty questionable mesmer expert :joy:@praqtos.9035 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Dueling illusion is stronger than domination anyway, double mind wrack and quickness is too valuable. I do agree with lost time getting the glacial hammer / shattered aegis / smiters boon treatment.Everything you mentioned is nothing alike.I alrdy said that if you want to nerf lost time then lightning rod should be nerfed as well. Two similar traits with an exception lrod hit twice as much. If they do then compensate its loss(both traits)Imagine complain about full zerk mesmer when mesmer viability depends on chaos interruption... Nerf threads soon

tm

Guard got no compensation.Ok, what guardian had to do with your comment then ?Lost time still has a very strong slow tied to it.Lrod does nothing except doubled damage? Do you need my help how to use google now ? Are you?

[ZhouX.8742]

@Solori.6025 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@"Chorazin.4107" said:How the kitten did this thread arise with Holosmiths running around?

A soulbeast main got mad that someone said his 2 shot pew pew build was doing too much unblockable damage so he made a thread targeting mes and Rev to distract from the fact soulbeast globals someone from 1800r.

Except he's actually a good player with valid points lol

I mean let's be real he would probably kitten on you with most classes regardless of the class he mains so what's your point?

If the point was too hard for you to understand they have online english classes for you.I stated what the point of the thread was. I don't care if he was a World Tournament player. He made the thread in spite. It's pretty obvious given the OP and the unranked screen shot to try and prove a point.If you wish to debate the points he made. Go back to page 1 and reply to any of the counter points.If you wish to sit here and make pointless attacks on my person for calling out why the thread is made without giving any actual feedback then be my guest. Reply and continue.I don't have the energy to go back and forth with some random whose first response is " Nah ah he'll beat you he better" like some kind of neanderthal.

The point is he's a much better player explaining valid points to you that you want to fail to understand because you're too blinded by ... what? That scourge was nerfed repeatedly?

Let's take class bias out of the equation here and focus on the facts.

To guys who constantly play against top players and do inners and 1v1s with the best players in the game, it's a big difference from arguing with silvers in a forum. Different game experience entirely and you realize class potential on that level so I'm not expecting a different response other than what I've seen when a top player comes in with some points being made about 2 classes and the majority of the forums responds with nothing really substantial at all other than "holo is busted! mes has been repeatedly nerfed!".

I get it though, it's the forums and this is probably unfortunately the worst place to vent valid frustrations about class mechanics at the top level because people are so tied to their main class that they get butthurt and defensive everytime someone even mentions nerf and their class in the same sentence.

We understand Holo is busted, this post is about 2 classes (with 2 specific builds) specifically though.

Most of the people in this thread , let's be real 95% of the people in this thread probably don't even know what top tier gameplay is in this game, but have a plethora of excuses to make involving a class they most likely haven't even reached a full potential on or truly understand yet or even touched a duel with a top player or did inners before, so when they get farmed on it repeatedly they automatically assume the class itself is bad and don't want to take a responsibility in simply getting better mechanically and looking toward multi-classing as a solution, that's alright everybody has their own method of playing.

I got tilted back in the day around 2014 when Backpack and other top players were exposed forming up group spreadsheet balance propositions and giving them to the PvP team directly in an attempt to balance PvP out in the game. It stopped of course as I'm sure the PvP team is entirely different now and half of those players don't even play anymore but in retrospect , it was probably the best way to do it because they just listen to any and everybody on the forums now and further degrade this game mode even more because it's too hard to balance between the massive divide in top players vs typical forum players.

[mortrialus.3062]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Gamble.4580 said:

@"Vague Memory.2817" said:I can't believe people are still complaining about mesmers. Mes have been the most nerfed class of them all. Some specs are not even viable in sPvP any more. Power chrono is a joke compared to other elites. The devs have even nerfed several core traits to uselessness which has affected all builds. Mirage literally revolves around two skills now, that's it! I seen core burn guards, warr, thieves and hold there own against elite specs, where core mes is a liability in PvP only fit for open world PvE. Seriously I think the problem some people have with Mes is they just can't distinguish the player from clones, which is what the whole base core mechanic of the class is about since the start of gw2. So what I think some people are really saying is that they won't be happy until the whole class is deleted.

You hit the nail on its head with this comment.I feel mes is fine don’t bother me on any class as op but I can understand how new players would react to them. Maybe delete all clones and make mes have just auto attack? But some may still get kills vs new players so maybe nurf it’s dps by 50% also and see how it goes from there.

Jawgeous the mesmer and balance pro already mentioned, that sword autoattack chain is op and has too much of everything. You are onto something buddy! /s

About Mirage Axe Auto Attack Chain

"IT DOES (710) POWER DAMAGE AND (224) BLEED. THAT'S 710 POWER! FLAT! AND ITS THREE TARGETS!"

Anet:

[Solori.6025]

@ZhouX.8742 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@"Chorazin.4107" said:How the kitten did this thread arise with Holosmiths running around?

A soulbeast main got mad that someone said his 2 shot pew pew build was doing too much unblockable damage so he made a thread targeting mes and Rev to distract from the fact soulbeast globals someone from 1800r.

Except he's actually a good player with valid points lol

I mean let's be real he would probably kitten on you with most classes regardless of the class he mains so what's your point?

If the point was too hard for you to understand they have online english classes for you.I stated what the point of the thread was. I don't care if he was a World Tournament player. He made the thread in spite. It's pretty obvious given the OP and the unranked screen shot to try and prove a point.If you wish to debate the points he made. Go back to page 1 and reply to any of the counter points.If you wish to sit here and make pointless attacks on my person for calling out why the thread is made without giving any actual feedback then be my guest. Reply and continue.I don't have the energy to go back and forth with some random whose first response is " Nah ah he'll beat you he better" like some kind of neanderthal.

The point is he's a much better player explaining valid points to you that you want to fail to understand because you're too blinded by ... what? That scourge was nerfed repeatedly?

Mhmm...still riding that horse yea?Also ,Yay someone was dumb enough to make an assumption based on an avatarIt's why I changed it, so thanks for that :D

Let's take class bias out of the equation here and focus on the facts.

Go to page 1-5 then. People pretty much presented facts even through the outrageous claims made by the OP..

Since you obviously failed to read the thread in its entirety let me quote the summary for you.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:So we began with all mesmers who can't land the burst are bad, burst is easy to land 100% of times, mesmers should get nerfed.And now we are with only mur can one shot me if I don't see him coming because I'm awesome rank 2 and trash all those op mesmers, nerf mesmers still.@"praqtos.9035" said:

So we came to a source of this rant... Finally ... A perfectly executed burst by a very good player... IF YOU DONT KNOW HE IS COMING.....So basically admit all your "cant LoS,cant dodge,cant block and only invul saves you" is nothing but to make your "agument" looks better? While also 100% confirmed my first post of the thread.You just buried yourself with your own words

[Crab Fear.1624]

This must be one of those top tier problems. I don't see these guys (mantra or good revs) down here at the bottom.

[viquing.8254]

Hey, I missed you :3 .I will not comment all posts on this thread but again there is points I'm against or at least didn't understand. (I answer this because you seems to be serious..)

@"bravan.3876" said:

• I think it is in terms of logic quite clear that Mantra of Pain is a braindead mechanic, max range instant and nearly permanent spammable too high dmg. It should get a cd on recharge and inbetween uses at least and should make less dmg. Or rework into something else.As I totally agree that a mantra with no CD who can be chain cast can be improved, saying that mantra of pain is braindead and spammable with his 2.25 cast time is quite exaggerated. (And I didn't activelly use MoP since 2 years.) If you braindead spam this mantra in fight, chances are hudge that you will get insta CC/killed.... (aside from a use with CI)... With a balanced trait like Powerblock it is neither broken nor easy to play...
• I agree that Mantra of Distraction indeed becomes a problem when it is combined with broken traits, as there are Lost Time and Chaotic Interruption atm.Ok then can you explain me, because in the last discussions we had you never answer why Power Block is fine and Chaotic interruption is broken while they have exactly the same operating mode.Difference is that with power block, the opponent will just use other skill and condiclear weakness while being able to use dodges. Whereas with chaotic interruption, the opponent have to use condiclear before evade.Talking about efficiency there is a trait who is more efficient than the second.Talking about skill, it take exactly (again same operating mode) the same skill to use.

With Powerblock you need to interrupt big skills otherwise you will not have a lot of impact or dmgAgain, no good players, nobody, nada, aucun, will free cast big skills without security. If you wait a window to lock the "big skills" against a good player, it's what we call a unicorn, everyone know what it mean but nobody see them. If you never put some lock pressure to reduce their security, there is no ways that a lock build work because the lock window never exist.

[bravan.3876]

@viquing.8254 said:Hey, I missed you :3 .I will not comment all posts on this thread but again there is points I'm against or at least didn't understand. (I answer this because you seems to be serious..)

@"bravan.3876" said:

• I think it is in terms of logic quite clear that Mantra of Pain is a braindead mechanic, max range instant and nearly permanent spammable too high dmg. It should get a cd on recharge and inbetween uses at least and should make less dmg. Or rework into something else.As I totally agree that a mantra with no CD who can be chain cast can be improved, saying that mantra of pain is braindead and spammable with his 2.25 cast time is quite exaggerated. (And I didn't activelly use MoP since 2 years.) If you braindead spam this mantra in fight, chances are hudge that you will get insta CC/killed.... (aside from a use with CI)... With a balanced trait like Powerblock it is neither broken nor easy to play...
• I agree that Mantra of Distraction indeed becomes a problem when it is combined with broken traits, as there are Lost Time and Chaotic Interruption atm.Ok then can you explain me, because in the last discussions we had you never answer why Power Block is fine and Chaotic interruption is broken
  while they have exactly the same operating mode
  .Difference is that with power block, the opponent will just use other skill and condiclear weakness while being able to use dodges. Whereas with chaotic interruption, the opponent have to use condiclear before evade.Talking about efficiency there is a trait who is more efficient than the second.Talking about skill, it take exactly (
  again same operating mode
  ) the same skill to use.

With Powerblock you need to interrupt big skills otherwise you will not have a lot of impact or dmgAgain,

no good players, nobody, nada, aucun,

will free cast big skills without security. If you wait a window to lock the "big skills" against a good player, it's what we call a unicorn, everyone know what it mean but nobody see them. If you never put some lock pressure to reduce their security, there is no ways that a lock build work because the lock window never exist.

Cannot deny i waited for you :)

Instant range dmg that high should not exist, no matter if it has cd or not. That Mantra of Pain doesn't even have cd, only a recharge is only the cake on top of its retardedness. Its a skill easy to hit and the more random you spam it the easier you hit it, because only combined with the oneshot combo it is evaded by dodging the gs2 burst. On chrono combined with Mantra of Distraction i even got bursted half HP with my Necro after i blinded his GS2 hit but the follow up with the 2 Mantras he hit with Lost Time added took 6k hp. Adding a zero clone Mind Wrack with 6k. Means with failing the complete combo and only hit not interruptable instant skills he still took 12k hp from me.

The reward from Chaotic Interruption is way higher than Powerblock and CI is a Lock Down, secure that you hit your follow up like a hard cc (stun, knockdown...). Meanwhile Powerblock is not a killer, its a support skill. Annoying to fight against when used well. But you need to use it well, not spam your interrupts and hope to get 1-2 on an autoattack for an immob what ends the fight most likely in your favor. For Powerblock it is not enough to interrupt autoattacks. I do not restart to argue that it is possible to time your interrupts on big skills, like heals, cc and burst skills also vs good player when you know how to bait and outplay and when you have a good reaction time. That is proven in the video we talked about and other videos on the same channel. CI needs an ICD at least, better a rework. I mean you also stack might like crazy in a defensive traitline, also that should get addressed.

It is even worse when you combine this trait with Mantra of Distraction. Want Warriors Shield Bash or Bullscharge or Hammerskills to be instant? That is exactly the lvl of brokenness we talk about here. Lock Downs/ Hard CC should never be instant and even less instant on range. Mantra of Distraction is instant ranged, can only be random evaded or sometimes predicted (mostly on Powermesmers when they want to GS burst, not even on the spammy Staff, Scepter Pistol build). It is only balanced when it isn't a lock down and the reward isn't too high, in particular the reward for just spamming it should be low. What leads to Lost Time. Lost Time doesn't even need an interrupt. To make Lost Time balanced it needs to proc only on interrupts, can not crit like Powerblock and maybe (not necessary) 1 sec reduced slow uptime.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"toxic.3648" said:no u are dealing with ppl trying to tell u that its not a problem landing the burst if ur enemy dont dodge and u need to learn how to dodge this it seems.besides, stick a good player behind any class and they will do well. mantra mes included, that dosnt mean it suddenly becomes broken because a godtier player is behind the wheels, just means he is godtier player.

that is all

Nope, I'm dealing with a bunch of EU mesmers telling me the mantra burst is hard to land lmao...Shorts himself addresses all of your concerns in his videos.

1. "You're not trying to out-skill someone. You're one-shotting someone from stealth. This build is the ultimate carry. There is no interaction, there is no response when you play this build correctly."
2. "Lots of people are blink -> burst one-tricks. You burst with your blink. The only times you actually get kills are when you blink in from 1200 range with stealth and getting a one-shot or missing it. However, there is a more consistent way to kill someone. Use sword 3 and wait. Either they dodge or they don't. If they dodge, immobilize them after. If they don't dodge within the first second, immobilize, and go for your burst. So pretty much what happens is that you immobilize with sword 3 which puts you in combat, you swap to greatsword to gain quickness from agility sigil, and your target CANNOT EVADE because you cannot use endurance evades while immobilized. And what you're doing is keeping your opponent permanently dazed and immobilized while doing this burst which creates it so that they have the least counterplay potential possible."

Even if they dodge the immobilize from sword 3, it is incredibly easy to just diversion as soon as the evade frame ends and land your burst that way.

So, even the dude who plays mantra mesmer builds almost exclusively is saying the exact same stuff I've been saying. The burst is extremely reliable, easy to execute, does a ridiculous amount of damage that can one-shot multiple heavy targets in a team fight, and doesn't give your opponent any chance to counterplay or room to react if you play it correctly.

[viquing.8254]

The reward from Chaotic Interruption is way higher than Powerblock and CI is a Lock Down, secure that you hit your follow up like a hard cc (stun, knockdown...). Meanwhile Powerblock is not a killer, its a support skill. Annoying to fight against when used well. But you need to use it well, not spam your interrupts and hope to get 1-2 on an autoattack for an immob what ends the fight most likely in your favor. For Powerblock it is not enough to interrupt autoattacks. I do not restart to argue that it is possible to time your interrupts on big skills, like heals, cc and burst skills also vs good player when you know how to bait and outplay and when you have a good reaction time. That is proven in the video we talked about and other videos on the same channel. CI needs an ICD at least, better a rework. I mean you also stack might like crazy in a defensive traitline, also that should get addressed.That's basically what I say about efficiency.For the same skill => rupt skills. There is one who has little to no impact while the second do something.And about the vid, I will not detail again the difference between a montage who highligh beautifull moments and stream/realtime where beautifull moments happened 5% of times. (Neither the fact that in the said vid, mosts Power block aren't on key-skill against good players.) But It prove litterally nothing than yes occasionnaly you can do something with useless traits.It is even worse when you combine this trait with Mantra of Distraction. Want Warriors Shield Bash or Bullscharge or Hammerskills to be instant? That is exactly the lvl of brokenness we talk about here.Ho come on, we are far to have a 3 sec CC who do 5k while evading plus being a gap closer like bullcharge (who is nearly instant btw under quickness.). And condiclear have far easier access than breakstunt.Lock Downs/ Hard CC should never be instant and even less instant on range.It is on 3/4 class actually, more or less random and more or less aoe, dunno why mesmer (who is supposyvly "the lock class by design" shouldn't did it".And yeah, I count a 0.25 sec cast time hard CC as instant. You can give mantra of distraction 0.25 cast time to be on same level as much hard CC if you want, it will not change much.

[Sampson.2403]

Can someone list out the current one shot chrono build top players are using?

There's one on Metabattle test builds, but it's using superiority complex and mmental anguish, so I'm not sure if that's the same one being discussed in this thread.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Sampson.2403 said:Are these mantra mes guys using zerker and scholar?

Marauder amulet works as well but you'd only be able to one-shot light and medium targets. Heavy armored ones will take a few seconds longer to kill.

Chrono mantras use Mesmer Runes.Mirage/Core mantras use Eagle Runes.Scholar would probably only work for Core but Eagle Runes are way more consistent and far superior.

[bravan.3876]

@Sampson.2403 said:Can someone list out the current one shot chrono build top players are using?

There's one on Metabattle test builds, but it's using superiority complex and mmental anguish, so I'm not sure if that's the same one being discussed in this thread.

Onehsot mesmer use every passive dmg trait they can find. Not totally sure about scholar after the last nerf but i think it is still the best oneshot rune. They also use Berserker Amulet while it is not needed the dmg difference between Marauder and Berserker isn't remarkable.

@"viquing.8254" said:

The reward from Chaotic Interruption is way higher than Powerblock and CI is a Lock Down, secure that you hit your follow up like a hard cc (stun, knockdown...). Meanwhile Powerblock is not a killer, its a support skill. Annoying to fight against when used well. But you need to use it well, not spam your interrupts and hope to get 1-2 on an autoattack for an immob what ends the fight most likely in your favor. For Powerblock it is not enough to interrupt autoattacks. I do not restart to argue that it is possible to time your interrupts on big skills, like heals, cc and burst skills also vs good player when you know how to bait and outplay and when you have a good reaction time. That is proven in the video we talked about and other videos on the same channel. CI needs an ICD at least, better a rework. I mean you also stack might like crazy in a defensive traitline, also that should get addressed.That's basically what I say about efficiency.For the same skill => rupt skills. There is one who has little to no impact while the second do something.And about the vid, I will not detail again the difference between a montage who highligh beautifull moments and stream/realtime where beautifull moments happened 5% of times. (Neither the fact that in the said vid, mosts Power block aren't on key-skill against good players.) But It prove litterally nothing than yes occasionnaly you can do something with useless traits.It is even worse when you combine this trait with Mantra of Distraction. Want Warriors Shield Bash or Bullscharge or Hammerskills to be instant? That is exactly the lvl of brokenness we talk about here.Ho come on, we are far to have a 3 sec CC who do 5k while evading plus being a gap closer like bullcharge (who is nearly instant btw under quickness.). And condiclear have far easier access than breakstunt.Lock Downs/ Hard CC should never be instant and even less instant on range.It is on 3/4 class actually, more or less random and more or less aoe, dunno why mesmer (who is supposyvly "the lock class by design" shouldn't did it".And yeah, I count a 0.25 sec cast time hard CC as instant. You can give mantra of distraction 0.25 cast time to be on same level as much hard CC if you want, it will not change much.

Before we both guess until the world ends, just ask him how hard it is for him to get interrupts on big skills vs good player. Even i can do that with an instant range skill also on good player. I am just not good enough to stay high ranked with a Powermesmer, but i can play a match with it sometimes without instantly dropping out of P3. The few times i play Mesmer i mostly play the meta, no problem to stay high ranked with Chaos Interrupt. Means even from my own experience it is no problem to interrupt good players big skills with an ranged instant skill. It just needs more skill and brain to do it than random spam cc until you hit an autoattack for CI.

That is exactly the point, the difference between Powerblock and CI is that CI has a higher reward that is easier to get, means it has a way lower skill floor and ceiling. It is just as broken as most low effort - high reward metabuilds in this noobfriendly casual game. It is a lock down (just like Hammerwarrior is a lock down build) and for that it is too strong with that massive might stacks, no ICD and combined with Mantra it gets completely ridiculous. The way you talk about Warrior skills make me think even more that you maybe just have a too low reaction time for an interrupt build that isn't broken. No offense.

Mantra of Distraction doesn't need a cast time it would even be bad for the skillful reactive gameplay, they just need to nerf/ rework traits that are already overperforming even without it, so it cannot be combined with broken traits. Interrupt/ disable traits need to be balanced with Mantra in mind because Mantra is the main interrupt skill in the skillbar for mesmers.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"Sampson.2403" said:Can someone list out the current one shot chrono build top players are using?

There's one on Metabattle test builds, but it's using superiority complex and mmental anguish, so I'm not sure if that's the same one being discussed in this thread.

This is the build for chrono mantra. Mass Invisibility and Gravity Well are interchangeable.

[Pengu.7481]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

Nope, I'm dealing with a bunch of EU mesmers telling me the mantra burst is hard to land lmao...Shorts himself addresses all of your concerns in his videos.for starters im not a mes. im holo main(maybe thats why i dont see the problem that u do, even tho u are pretty much as tanky as i am on boonbeast so go figure)

1. ["You're not trying to out-skill someone. You're one-shotting someone from stealth. This build is the ultimate carry. There is no interaction, there is no response when you play this build correctly."]everyone will have alot easier time bursting from stealth, myself included. this interraction has always been there, dosnt mean its not kitten but this is true for most dps classes with acces to stealth. u urself stated that u wont die to a mes unless u dont see him comming. so if u see him comming its literally ez mode and np right?
2. ["Lots of people are blink -> burst one-tricks. You burst with your blink. The only times you actually get kills are when you blink in from 1200 range with stealth and getting a one-shot or missing it. However, there is a more consistent way to kill someone. Use sword 3 and wait. Either they dodge or they don't. If they dodge, immobilize them after. If they don't dodge within the first second, immobilize, and go for your burst. So pretty much what happens is that you immobilize with sword 3 which puts you in combat, you swap to greatsword to gain quickness from agility sigil, and your target CANNOT EVADE because you cannot use endurance evades while immobilized. And what you're doing is keeping your opponent permanently dazed and immobilized while doing this burst which creates it so that they have the least counterplay potential possible."]immobed? condi clear and dodge, or use stunbreak/block/invul. on holo we got it ez tho, elixir S ftw and mes is free food.

   Even if they dodge the immobilize from sword 3, it is incredibly easy to just diversion as soon as the evade frame ends and land your burst that way.again, stunbreaks/stability exists ...So, even the dude who plays mantra mesmer builds almost exclusively is saying the exact same stuff I've been saying. The burst is extremely reliable, easy to execute, does a ridiculous amount of damage that can one-shot multiple heavy targets in a team fight, and doesn't give your opponent any chance to counterplay or room to react if you play it correctly.ye the "top player" which brings me back to my main argument , feeling like im beating a dead horse here but wth. just because the player playing the class is godtier dosnt mean the class is broken, it just means the player is godtier

heck instead of repeating the same shit and getting the same responses u should look at what other ppl are sayinglooking at "bravan.3876" "Lincolnbeard.1735" "praqtos.9035" "Vague Memory.2817" .

[shadowpass.4236]

@"toxic.3648" said:

1. for starters im not a mes. im holo main(maybe thats why i dont see the problem that u do, even tho u are pretty much as tanky as i am on boonbeast so go figure)
2. everyone will have alot easier time bursting from stealth, myself included. this interraction has always been there, dosnt mean its not kitten but this is true for most dps classes with acces to stealth. u urself stated that u wont die to a mes unless u dont see him comming. so if u see him comming its literally ez mode and np right?
3. immobed? condi clear and dodge, or use stunbreak/block/invul. on holo we got it ez tho, elixir S ftw and mes is free food.
4. again, stunbreaks/stability exists ...
5. ye the "top player" which brings me back to my main argument , feeling like im beating a dead horse here but wth. just because the player playing the class is godtier dosnt mean the class is broken, it just means the player is godtier

heck instead of repeating the same kitten and getting the same responses u should look at what other ppl are sayinglooking at "bravan.3876" "Lincolnbeard.1735" "praqtos.9035" "Vague Memory.2817" .

1. Holo is the only spec atm that has a potentially winning matchup against a mesmer in a straight up 1v1 if the mes doesn't just port away when they get low. Also, boonbeast is one of the worst meta side noder builds atm. It loses against strength spellbreaker, tools holo, and mes. It wins against weaver but that's about it. And no, I don't play boonbeast.
2. I think you missed what I said earlier. I fought a core berserker mantra mes for more than 15 minutes in the finals of a 1v1 tournament. I saw him coming, but no, it wasn't "literally ez mode and np." They are some of the strongest dueling specs in the game simply because of how much damage/cc/mobility they have. If you mess up once against a good one, you're dead. INB4 someone says I'm fighting someone that drastically outskills me, that's not the case. The same players can play any other build in the game and won't give me as hard of a time. The only builds I'd ever lose to in a 1v1 where I'm not forced to fight on point are ones like mantras where there are NO animations for the majority of their damage and they can 100-0 me without any chance to counterplay. Also, randomly evading the instant cast charges is so stupid to do against a mantra mes with a brain. They will just time them for the end of the evade frames and you'll still end up dead.
3. Yeah by the time you press the condi clear the mirror blade would've already hit and you would've died. Even on holo after elixir s you shouldn't be able to counter-pressure the mesmer unless they decide to stand next to you and eat damage.
4. Stab is one of the first boons to get stripped by Shattered Concentration. If you use Elixir U preemptively to prevent the stun/daze, it can get removed by sword ambush spam, shattered concentration, mind stab, or any other ccs. A good mantra mes would easily just power block your corona burst. Now you don't have stab, you get locked down by immob/cc, and you eat the burst.
5. Mantra mesmer is one of the easiest, most braindead specs to play. It doesn't take much thought to be able to land instant cast skills. Stick the same players who'd actually stand a chance killing me on mantra mes on any other build and their odds of winning go way down.

[bravan.3876]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"toxic.3648" said:

1. for starters im not a mes. im holo main(maybe thats why i dont see the problem that u do, even tho u are pretty much as tanky as i am on boonbeast so go figure)
2. everyone will have alot easier time bursting from stealth, myself included. this interraction has always been there, dosnt mean its not kitten but this is true for most dps classes with acces to stealth. u urself stated that u wont die to a mes
   unless
   u dont see him comming. so if u see him comming its literally ez mode and np right?
3. immobed? condi clear and dodge, or use stunbreak/block/invul. on holo we got it ez tho, elixir S ftw and mes is free food.
4. again, stunbreaks/stability exists ...
5. ye the "top player" which brings me back to my main argument , feeling like im beating a dead horse here but wth.
   just because the player playing the class is godtier dosnt mean the class is broken, it just means the player is godtier

heck instead of repeating the same kitten and getting the same responses u should look at what other ppl are sayinglooking at "bravan.3876" "Lincolnbeard.1735" "praqtos.9035" "Vague Memory.2817" .

1. Holo is the only spec atm that has a potentially winning matchup against a mesmer in a straight up 1v1 if the mes doesn't just port away when they get low. Also, boonbeast is one of the worst meta side noder builds atm. It loses against strength spellbreaker, tools holo, and mes. It wins against weaver but that's about it. And no, I don't play boonbeast.
2. I think you missed what I said earlier. I fought a core berserker mantra mes for more than 15 minutes in the finals of a 1v1 tournament. I saw him coming, but no, it wasn't "literally ez mode and np." They are some of the strongest dueling specs in the game simply because of how much damage/cc/mobility they have. If you mess up once against a good one, you're dead. INB4 someone says I'm fighting someone that drastically outskills me, that's not the case. The same players can play any other build in the game and won't give me as hard of a time. The only builds I'd ever lose to in a 1v1 where I'm not forced to fight on point are ones like mantras where there are NO animations for the majority of their damage and they can 100-0 me without any chance to counterplay. Also, randomly evading the instant cast charges is so stupid to do against a mantra mes with a brain. They will just time them for the end of the evade frames and you'll still end up dead.
3. Yeah by the time you press the condi clear the mirror blade would've already hit and you would've died. Even on holo after elixir s you shouldn't be able to counter-pressure the mesmer unless they decide to stand next to you and eat damage.
4. Stab is one of the first boons to get stripped by Shattered Concentration. If you use Elixir U preemptively to prevent the stun/daze, it can get removed by sword ambush spam, shattered concentration, mind stab, or any other ccs. A good mantra mes would easily just power block your corona burst. Now you don't have stab, you get locked down by immob/cc, and you eat the burst.
5. Mantra mesmer is one of the easiest, most braindead specs to play. It doesn't take much thought to be able to land instant cast skills. Stick the same players who'd actually stand a chance killing me on mantra mes on any other build and their odds of winning go way down.

You rly make weird wannabe logical assumtions. Have you tried to duel one of the best mantra mesmer after they put the same amount of time into another build? I doubt that because they would need years to get on the same skill lvl with another class if we don't consider that a lot fo meta builds are even easier to play than a oneshot double mantra mes.

[viquing.8254]

@bravan.3876 said:Before we both guess until the world ends, just ask him how hard it is for him to get interrupts on big skills vs good player. Even i can do that with an instant range skill also on good player. I am just not good enough to stay high ranked with a Powermesmer, but i can play a match with it sometimes without instantly dropping out of P3. The few times i play Mesmer i mostly play the meta, no problem to stay high ranked with Chaos Interrupt. Means even from my own experience it is no problem to interrupt good players big skills with an ranged instant skill. It just needs more skill and brain to do it than random spam cc until you hit an autoattack for CI.

That is exactly the point, the difference between Powerblock and CI is that CI has a higher reward that is easier to get, means it has a way lower skill floor and ceiling. It is just as broken as most low effort - high reward metabuilds in this noobfriendly casual game. It is a lock down (just like Hammerwarrior is a lock down build) and for that it is too strong with that massive might stacks, no ICD and combined with Mantra it gets completely ridiculous. The way you talk about Warrior skills make me think even more that you maybe just have a too low reaction time for an interrupt build that isn't broken. No offense.So with your reasonment why there is litterally zero mesmer playing power block in EU top 100 or mAt ?2 choice answer :1) The reward isn't here.2) There is no good mesmers.

[praqtos.9035]

@viquing.8254 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Before we both guess until the world ends, just ask him how hard it is for him to get interrupts on big skills vs good player. Even i can do that with an instant range skill also on good player. I am just not good enough to stay high ranked with a Powermesmer, but i can play a match with it sometimes without instantly dropping out of P3. The few times i play Mesmer i mostly play the meta, no problem to stay high ranked with Chaos Interrupt. Means even from my own experience it is no problem to interrupt good players big skills with an ranged instant skill. It just needs more skill and brain to do it than random spam cc until you hit an autoattack for CI.

That is exactly the point, the difference between Powerblock and CI is that CI has a higher reward that is easier to get, means it has a way lower skill floor and ceiling. It is just as broken as most low effort - high reward metabuilds in this noobfriendly casual game. It is a lock down (just like Hammerwarrior is a lock down build) and for that it is too strong with that massive might stacks, no ICD and combined with Mantra it gets completely ridiculous. The way you talk about Warrior skills make me think even more that you maybe just have a too low reaction time for an interrupt build that isn't broken. No offense.So with your reasonment why there is litterally zero mesmer playing power block in EU top 100 or mAt ?2 choice answer :1) The reward isn't here.2) There is no good mesmers.You are wrong, some meh mesmer being carried by chaos/inspiration/chrono with chaos interrupt/lost time bunker in top25 last season. mAT Mes ritu singlehandedly carried by condi chaos interrupt as it does 3s immob on full condi duration mirage. Its annoying to deal with only because of immob, if they would give more boons/more condis for interrupt without immob, it would be more bearable

[bravan.3876]

@viquing.8254 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Before we both guess until the world ends, just ask him how hard it is for him to get interrupts on big skills vs good player. Even i can do that with an instant range skill also on good player. I am just not good enough to stay high ranked with a Powermesmer, but i can play a match with it sometimes without instantly dropping out of P3. The few times i play Mesmer i mostly play the meta, no problem to stay high ranked with Chaos Interrupt. Means even from my own experience it is no problem to interrupt good players big skills with an ranged instant skill. It just needs more skill and brain to do it than random spam cc until you hit an autoattack for CI.

That is exactly the point, the difference between Powerblock and CI is that CI has a higher reward that is easier to get, means it has a way lower skill floor and ceiling. It is just as broken as most low effort - high reward metabuilds in this noobfriendly casual game. It is a lock down (just like Hammerwarrior is a lock down build) and for that it is too strong with that massive might stacks, no ICD and combined with Mantra it gets completely ridiculous. The way you talk about Warrior skills make me think even more that you maybe just have a too low reaction time for an interrupt build that isn't broken. No offense.So with your reasonment why there is litterally zero mesmer playing power block in EU top 100 or mAt ?2 choice answer :1) The reward isn't here.2) There is no good mesmers.

I don't get why you are saying that when we already talked about a mesmer using only Powerblock interrupt playing in Plat3/Legend EU from the shown rating in some videos. Means he is at least Top100 and from reading his gameplay he is not only good but EU top lvl. I never said it is easy to play and that everyone can do it. I can't, you can't, probably most ppl can't but it is possible when played very well. Ppl just like to go the easy way and most other builds are way easier, that is the reason you barely see it not because it is unplayable in high ranks.

[viquing.8254]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Before we both guess until the world ends, just ask him how hard it is for him to get interrupts on big skills vs good player. Even i can do that with an instant range skill also on good player. I am just not good enough to stay high ranked with a Powermesmer, but i can play a match with it sometimes without instantly dropping out of P3. The few times i play Mesmer i mostly play the meta, no problem to stay high ranked with Chaos Interrupt. Means even from my own experience it is no problem to interrupt good players big skills with an ranged instant skill. It just needs more skill and brain to do it than random spam cc until you hit an autoattack for CI.

That is exactly the point, the difference between Powerblock and CI is that CI has a higher reward that is easier to get, means it has a way lower skill floor and ceiling. It is just as broken as most low effort - high reward metabuilds in this noobfriendly casual game. It is a lock down (just like Hammerwarrior is a lock down build) and for that it is too strong with that massive might stacks, no ICD and combined with Mantra it gets completely ridiculous. The way you talk about Warrior skills make me think even more that you maybe just have a too low reaction time for an interrupt build that isn't broken. No offense.So with your reasonment why there is litterally zero mesmer playing power block in EU top 100 or mAt ?2 choice answer :1) The reward isn't here.2) There is no good mesmers.You are wrong, some meh mesmer being carried by chaos/inspiration/chrono with chaos interrupt/lost time bunker in top25 last season. mAT Mes ritu singlehandedly carried by condi chaos interrupt as it does 3s immob on full condi duration mirage. Its annoying to deal with only because of immob, if they would give more boons/more condis for interrupt without immob, it would be more bearable

Yeah I know that, we are talking about power block fine here.Btw, about CI, it's just because players didn't adapt their builds to counter it, because I can ensure you that there is many way to make this kind of build useless like they were during thoses past years.

[viquing.8254]

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Before we both guess until the world ends, just ask him how hard it is for him to get interrupts on big skills vs good player. Even i can do that with an instant range skill also on good player. I am just not good enough to stay high ranked with a Powermesmer, but i can play a match with it sometimes without instantly dropping out of P3. The few times i play Mesmer i mostly play the meta, no problem to stay high ranked with Chaos Interrupt. Means even from my own experience it is no problem to interrupt good players big skills with an ranged instant skill. It just needs more skill and brain to do it than random spam cc until you hit an autoattack for CI.

That is exactly the point, the difference between Powerblock and CI is that CI has a higher reward that is easier to get, means it has a way lower skill floor and ceiling. It is just as broken as most low effort - high reward metabuilds in this noobfriendly casual game. It is a lock down (just like Hammerwarrior is a lock down build) and for that it is too strong with that massive might stacks, no ICD and combined with Mantra it gets completely ridiculous. The way you talk about Warrior skills make me think even more that you maybe just have a too low reaction time for an interrupt build that isn't broken. No offense.So with your reasonment why there is litterally zero mesmer playing power block in EU top 100 or mAt ?2 choice answer :1) The reward isn't here.2) There is no good mesmers.

I don't get why you are saying that when we already talked about a mesmer using only Powerblock interrupt playing in Plat3/Legend EU from the shown rating in some videos. Means he is at least Top100 and from reading his gameplay he is not only good but EU top lvl. I never said it is easy to play and that everyone can do it. I can't, you can't, probably most ppl can't but it is possible when played very well. Ppl just like to go the easy way and most other builds are way easier, that is the reason you barely see it not because it is unplayable in high ranks.

It's a MONTAGE ROFL.If I make a vid playing inspiration focus trait while owning top player 2% of time but just showing theses moments, you will ask to nerf focus trait ? (or find it fine/balanced and so on ?)Continue dreaming about the possibility of play like the best moment during a montage if you want but don't use it as proof please.And I'm not even sure he ending top 100.