Can we stop with the updates RIGHT at reset time?

[gateless gate.8406]

Dear ANet,Releasing updates directly at reset wreaks havoc on people's reset activities. "Is my squad on the old build or new build? Should I update now and run the risk of getting to the meta too late, or try to find a map using the old build? If I update will I see more groups in LFG?" Etc. I really am baffled as to why updates are so frequently released right at reset. If there is some reason why you must do this, I would love to know what that is.

[Randulf.7614]

Because hotfixes go out when ready. There is never a time when something isn’t happening so it’s easier just to launch when ready

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I much prefer they patch the game sooner rather than later.

[Blocki.4931]

Doesn't matter either way because there will always be a lot of people who finish what they want to do before patching

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

I’d prefer bug fixes be pushed out promptly. I’d rather not be playing and encounter a bug that’s still in game because they’re waiting for a “better time” to fix it.

[Metasynaptic.1093]

Just because it's inconvenient for you, doesn't mean moving it won't be inconvenient for someone else.

[gateless gate.8406]

Some quick counterpoints:

"Because hotfixes go out when ready." -- well, no. They go out when developers choose to release them. Considering just how many times ANet chooses to update +/- 10 minutes within reset time, I would bet that time is being purposely selected.

"There is never a time when something isn’t happening so it’s easier just to launch when ready." -- certainly reset is more busy than other times.

"I much prefer they patch the game sooner rather than later." -- both of the issues they patched at today's reset are non-gameplay affecting. Indeed, I always check the patch notes and these post-update hotfixes are many, many times not gameplay affecting. I suppose this is simply a matter of opinion, but I would rather they not mess with reset activities and simply delay a few hours.

"There will always be a lot of people who finish what they want to do before patching" -- to a certain extent yes, but this also affects players in the reverse way: There is a map/squad in LFG doing your selected reset activity, but it is the only one (all the other squads have updated), and its map is full. That exact scenario occurred tonight.

"Just because it's inconvenient for you, doesn't mean moving it won't be inconvenient for someone else." -- the goal of moving these hotfixes away from +/- 10 minutes within reset time is not to eliminate all inconvenience. It is to disrupt as few players as possible. Disrupting reset time is practically a guarantee that you are not doing so.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

Reset is the end of the day for ANet (5PM Pacific Time) and most ANet staff will be going home. If it’s not pushed out before they leave for the day then it probably won’t be for another 16 hours (9AM Pacific Time). Regardless of whether or not the bugs are gameplay breaking, having bugs sit for an additional 16 hours can cause problems that you might not anticipate by reading the patch notes as to what got fixed.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:Reset is the end of the day for ANet (5PM Pacific Time) and most ANet staff will be going home. If it’s not pushed out before they leave for the day then it probably won’t be for another 16 hours (9AM Pacific Time). Regardless of whether or not the bugs are gameplay breaking, having bugs sit for an additional 16 hours can cause problems that you might not anticipate by reading the patch notes as to what got fixed.

To add to what JAFW contributed...

I suspect that involved staff don't get to go home until the update is out there, and they've waited around a bit to see if something catastrophic happens (because software). To me, disrupting players' in-game activities for a minute or so is frankly trivial. I'd prefer ANet finish what they need to do and go home.

[Metasynaptic.1093]

Most patches occur for me at 3am, so broadly I'm unaffected by patch day. A few times I've been mid raid with the ominous 'a new patch is available, you have 30 seconds to comply' and it's almost never a big deal.

[mindcircus.1506]

Guild Wars 2 is one of the few MMORPGs that doesn't go down for several hours at a time every week or two for regularly scheduled maintenance. Most MMOs when a large expansion or content drop is delivered go down for a half day or more.When PoF launched, I had to restart. My downtime was probably about 7 minutes.

From a service delivery standpoint, this product is a real cut above.I suggest that if a few minutes of downtime to ensure that the people you game with are patched somehow "wreaks havoc" on your activities, that you may be a little too sensitive to cope with the realities of the genre.

It really isn't a big deal.

[Ellegon Mcleod.5931]

I think the fact that these updates are know to usually be at this time and fact that you have a 2 hour window after the update has allowed many people to plan their events around it. I know that usually the 6:20pm (UCT+2) ley line the commanders remind people not to reset until after the event. Also some of the updates help start off an event and I think many people would rather get in as fast as possible. Part of reset is that we know patches are close to it and can thus plan accordingly.

[Danikat.8537]

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:Reset is the end of the day for ANet (5PM Pacific Time) and most ANet staff will be going home. If it’s not pushed out before they leave for the day then it probably won’t be for another 16 hours (9AM Pacific Time). Regardless of whether or not the bugs are gameplay breaking, having bugs sit for an additional 16 hours can cause problems that you might not anticipate by reading the patch notes as to what got fixed.

That was my thought too. I know in my job if I have the choice between sending something out at the end of the day before I go home or waiting until the next morning I'll do everything I can to send it that day. Especially because I know a lot of the recipients will be online in the evening and then at their own jobs during the day, so if I leave it the delay before they get it is more like 24 hours. That and it means it's done and when I come in the next day I can move on to the next thing which needs doing instead of trying to remember where I left off.

@"mindcircus.1506" said:Guild Wars 2 is one of the few MMORPGs that doesn't go down for several hours at a time every week or two for regularly scheduled maintenance. Most MMOs when a large expansion or content drop is delivered go down for a half day or more.When PoF launched, I had to restart. My downtime was probably about 7 minutes.

From a service delivery standpoint, this product is a real cut above.I suggest that if a few minutes of downtime to ensure that the people you game with are patched somehow "wreaks havoc" on your activities, that you may be a little too sensitive to cope with the realities of the genre.

It really isn't a big deal.

Agreed. My other MMO is one of those which still goes down for a few hours every week or two just for server maintenance, and it's even longer if there's an actual update to install. And if any bugs are found after the release and need to be fixed that means taking the servers offline for another few hours to do it...or more likely leaving them in-game until the next scheduled maintenance period because they can't justify keeping the game offline that long. Which leads to things like a 2-week dungeon event where the LFG tool doesn't work for the first week and the answer is "oh well, we fixed it as soon as we could".

By comparison having to choose between logging out now to get the update or waiting, and wondering which one everyone else will choose is a very minor problem. It is still annoying when it happens, especially when I don't have much time to play. But at least I can play - whether I get the update now or later - instead of being kicked out of the game completely until they're done updating it.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:Reset is the end of the day for ANet (5PM Pacific Time) and most ANet staff will be going home. If it’s not pushed out before they leave for the day then it probably won’t be for another 16 hours (9AM Pacific Time). Regardless of whether or not the bugs are gameplay breaking, having bugs sit for an additional 16 hours can cause problems that you might not anticipate by reading the patch notes as to what got fixed.

To add to what JAFW contributed...

I suspect that involved staff don't get to go home until the update is out there, and they've waited around a bit to see if something catastrophic happens (because software). To me, disrupting players' in-game activities for a minute or so is frankly trivial. I'd prefer ANet finish what they need to do and go home.

If that is correct (and sounds logical to me), then wouldn't it make more sense to launch the patch 1 hour before reset, thereby giving the devs an hour to monitor the changes and make sure there are no other issues?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Sure, if it is done an hour before reset. Perhaps, the testers and others hurry as fast as they can to get it done before quitting time. It's not like the Devs go, "Oh, here, this hotfix is done; let's wait until 5pm to release it!" :confounded:

[TheGrimm.5624]

Forum is also making a lot of assumptions about the underlying tech in place with the virtual servers that GW 2 is using that allows us not to go offline for the updates. Sorry I prefer the no offline mode so patch whenever versus all of us being down for hours on end. A few seconds is a small price to pay for that infrastructure. Keep up the good work ANet!

[mindcircus.1506]

@"Danikat.8537" said:Agreed. My other MMO is one of those which still goes down for a few hours every week or two just for server maintenance, and it's even longer if there's an actual update to install. And if any bugs are found after the release and need to be fixed that means taking the servers offline for another few hours to do it...or more likely leaving them in-game until the next scheduled maintenance period because they can't justify keeping the game offline that long. Which leads to things like a 2-week dungeon event where the LFG tool doesn't work for the first week and the answer is "oh well, we fixed it as soon as we could".

This game, on the other hand identified a problem with a collection that it's highest paying customers were impacted by (the new BL weapon skins collection) and had it patched less than ten hours later.... in a way that resulted in just about no real interference with the service other than a hiccup with teaming for a few minutes.And the OP wants to cry foul.That's the GW2 community for you.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:Reset is the end of the day for ANet (5PM Pacific Time) and most ANet staff will be going home. If it’s not pushed out before they leave for the day then it probably won’t be for another 16 hours (9AM Pacific Time). Regardless of whether or not the bugs are gameplay breaking, having bugs sit for an additional 16 hours can cause problems that you might not anticipate by reading the patch notes as to what got fixed.

To add to what JAFW contributed...

I suspect that involved staff don't get to go home until the update is out there, and they've waited around a bit to see if something catastrophic happens (because software). To me, disrupting players' in-game activities for a minute or so is frankly trivial. I'd prefer ANet finish what they need to do and go home.

If that is correct (and sounds logical to me), then wouldn't it make more sense to launch the patch 1 hour before reset, thereby giving the devs an hour to monitor the changes and make sure there are no other issues?

Reset is 5:00 PM in Seattle. Maybe there are staff scheduled 9:00 AM -- 6:00 PM (1 hour lunch).

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

my favorite forced restart:Friday shortly after wvw reset.bug fixed: clipping issue on male charr with certain gemstore outfit.

There are game breaking bugs, there are severe bugs and then there are cosmetic bugs that could wait another week.

Forcing people to restart after such an important reset because of some minor cosmetic issue is not only rage inducing, it is superfluos. They should wait for a time window when hardly anyone is playing before pushing those. At least for EU that would be easy.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:Reset is the end of the day for ANet (5PM Pacific Time) and most ANet staff will be going home.All the more reason not to push an update then. You don't make patches just before leaving the building, because if you missed something and have to fix it right away (which is always a risk after a patch), there won't be anyone to do it anymore. It's better to make patches in the first half of the work day, when you are in control and can react if something goes wrong.The only exception should be if it's a critical fix that simply cannot wait - the patches we're talking about do not seem to be of that kind.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:Reset is the end of the day for ANet (5PM Pacific Time) and most ANet staff will be going home.All the more reason

not

to push an update then. You don't make patches just before leaving the building, because if you missed something and have to fix it right away (which is

always

a risk after a patch),

there won't be anyone to do it anymore

. It's better to make patches in the first half of the work day, when you are in control and can react if something goes wrong.The only exception should be if it's a critical fix that simply cannot wait - the patches we're talking about do not seem to be of that kind.

This assumes there isn’t a night crew.

Edit: They might have a skeleton crew that babysits the game during the night with the ability to either turn off an update or contact someone who can. It’s also been suggested that the end of the day is 6PM not 5PM, in which case they have an hour to see if there are problems before leaving for the day.

[mindcircus.1506]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:Reset is the end of the day for ANet (5PM Pacific Time) and most ANet staff will be going home.All the more reason

not

to push an update then. You don't make patches just before leaving the building, because if you missed something and have to fix it right away (which is

always

a risk after a patch), there won't be anyone to do it anymore. It's better to make patches in the first half of the work day, when you are in control and can react if something goes wrong.The only exception should be if it's a critical fix that simply cannot wait - the patches we're talking about do not seem to be of that kind.

Clearly you are:-A Software/game developer yourself with knowledge of the patching process.-In complete knowledge of Arenanet's work flow including knowing how long it takes for a Gw2 build to cook.-In possession of the names of all the stakeholders who need to sign off on a new build.-A member of Arenanet's QA team who bug sweeps and knows exactly what to look for and how long it takes.-In contact with someone in Arenanet's employee scheduling department and in possession of the programming department's hours.or...you are none of those things and just talking about the way you think things "should be" to justify your entitlement.

It's a puzzler.

[Zaklex.6308]

Of course you can also just keep playing until that 2 hour timer runs out and the game auto-updates for you, unless you absolutely need to be on the same page as others, it's fine as it is, as worked for ArenaNet since the beginning so there's no need to change the process now.