Drop In Population - Discussion - Suggestions

[Avatar.3568]

i think we should completly ban alle elite spez in pvp, it was never balanced since they gotten intreduced

[ChillyKoti.1928]

This sort of thread has been brought multiple times, but ArenaNet simply doesn't care.

It's baffling to see a video game company not caring at all about its community and then after some time, losing players out of control.I know this is their game, but they still should listen to the community (other than nerf X and buff Y)

[zoopop.5630]

i'm close to quiting rank in general. Noting has been done to help improve it in almost a year now?

All i got left is the Monthly Tournament and even that is a 50/50 for me at the moment. All I ask for is some sort of support for teams to get better with 5 players. I don't want to 5 man Unrank, and I don't want to wait 4-5 hours for a Random tournament at 3:05am.

Give ME or US a REASON to play as a 5 man team, Give us a REASON to rep a Guild for Spvp, Give us bette rewards for 5 man Parties , and Give us a better hours for tournaments. Stop supporting the players that been asking for some sort of 5 man Que for teams....Please.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I'm curious as to what people think about the idea of having a beta season where ranked is a 3 man que, 3 players per team only.

3 person teams would be so boring. if anything they should increase the team sizes, maybe by just 1 so two 3 man premades are put together.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

PvP is just not enjoyable for anyone but the few who enjoy their gimmcky spammy builds.
Players should be able to last a few more seconds on average. There's too much burst, and not enough attrition.
Reducing damage only gets you people to get more bunkery, and removing that bunkery only brings back the damage.

PvP needs a better rythm, but that would mean reworking a lot of skills and giving aftercast delays to many instant cast skills and other changes that players who enjoy 1s bursts would despise.
Battles should feel like the players use skills to the rythm of a waltz. 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-kill, Finish.Instead things have gone all the way to playing full speed Darude Sandstorm.But we could still try and see how things are when they are not as fast without letting people get too bunkery: I'd say they should at least try a week-long event during an off-season, in which we get things toned down drastically with the following changes in unranked matches with an effect that forces the changes regardless of builds equipped:

• Reduce overall maximum critical damage outputs to 1/3.
• Reduce non-critical damage to 4/5.
• Reduce all forms of healing to 1/5.
• Remove out of combat healing, or keep players permanently in combat as soon as they leave the base, but add a few objects that act like 'healing fountains' in strategic spots. These fountains should heal about 10K, and take 90s to refresh. All these healing spots would be far enough from capture points, but still visible from them.

During that weekly event, I assure you a lot of players would enjoy PvP way more and way less would go "Screw this kitten, I'm out" before they can even begin to get acquainted with the mode.

[Reikou.7068]

Been saying this since the beginning, but there needs to be, or even just an option for players to opt in/out of, hard limits on how far the matchmaker will search.

I believe that the matchmaker should only put together matches with players within a 100 MMR range for example, with everyone in the match being <100 MMR of each other.

This would mean at some mmr ranges, matchmaking would take longer. Additionally, While this would also mean that some more extreme ranges matches may simply not pop at certain timezones.

However i believe that this would mean that matches that get put together will be a lot more enjoyable to play in.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I'm curious as to what people think about the idea of having a beta season where ranked is a 3 man que, 3 players per team only.

I'm game.

So long as it isn't a merged queue. Anything but merged queues like the one we have now. Maybe that'l help keep some of the top players out of games with golds and silvers, or at the very least; spread them out evenly among teams.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"coro.3176" said:I can only offer my opinion on why I personally don't play PvP any more. It's quite simple:

I want to play condi engi. I don't want to play bunker scrapper or holosmith.

Condi engi is not viable .. at all. like, not even a little.

So I don't play.

In the past, the difference between the "meta" builds and "off-meta" builds was small. Like, sure there was one best spec, but the rest of the possibilities were all roughly 80-90% as effective as the meta spec.

Now, it feels like the meta builds are a full 200% better than off-meta builds. It's a difference that can't really be overcome except by extreme skill differential, and that doesn't make for fun gameplay.

Trying to make condi engi work in today's meta is like pulling teeth. I know, because I've seen people try it and I always feel bad when I wreck them on a meta engi build. :-\

Not really, just make pistol skills overpowered and make tool kit do much more conditions than just confusion and bleed.

Powercreeping everything up to the existing powercreep is kind of the opposite idea from the OP. If you want defined roles, that is not how you do it.

Buffing something that was always below the power curve to begin with and thus was hardly uses isn't power creep by definition.

[Vagrant.7206]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"coro.3176" said:I can only offer my opinion on why I personally don't play PvP any more. It's quite simple:

I want to play condi engi. I don't want to play bunker scrapper or holosmith.

Condi engi is not viable .. at all. like, not even a little.

So I don't play.

In the past, the difference between the "meta" builds and "off-meta" builds was small. Like, sure there was one best spec, but the rest of the possibilities were all roughly 80-90% as effective as the meta spec.

Now, it feels like the meta builds are a full 200% better than off-meta builds. It's a difference that can't really be overcome except by extreme skill differential, and that doesn't make for fun gameplay.

Trying to make condi engi work in today's meta is like pulling teeth. I know, because I've seen people try it and I always feel bad when I wreck them on a meta engi build. :-\

Not really, just make pistol skills overpowered and make tool kit do much more conditions than just confusion and bleed.

Powercreeping everything up to the existing powercreep is kind of the opposite idea from the OP. If you want defined roles, that is not how you do it.

Buffing something that was always below the power curve to begin with and thus was hardly uses isn't power creep by definition.

Pre-HoT, condi engi was fine.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"coro.3176" said:I can only offer my opinion on why I personally don't play PvP any more. It's quite simple:

I want to play condi engi. I don't want to play bunker scrapper or holosmith.

Condi engi is not viable .. at all. like, not even a little.

So I don't play.

In the past, the difference between the "meta" builds and "off-meta" builds was small. Like, sure there was one best spec, but the rest of the possibilities were all roughly 80-90% as effective as the meta spec.

Now, it feels like the meta builds are a full 200% better than off-meta builds. It's a difference that can't really be overcome except by extreme skill differential, and that doesn't make for fun gameplay.

Trying to make condi engi work in today's meta is like pulling teeth. I know, because I've seen people try it and I always feel bad when I wreck them on a meta engi build. :-\

Not really, just make pistol skills overpowered and make tool kit do much more conditions than just confusion and bleed.

Powercreeping everything up to the existing powercreep is kind of the opposite idea from the OP. If you want defined roles, that is not how you do it.

Buffing something that was always below the power curve to begin with and thus was hardly uses isn't power creep by definition.

Pre-HoT, condi engi was fine.

Didn't it still use Rifle for the Quality of Life and get most of it's damage out of kits though? It's been a while but I think that was how it worked.

[Vagrant.7206]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"coro.3176" said:I can only offer my opinion on why I personally don't play PvP any more. It's quite simple:

I want to play condi engi. I don't want to play bunker scrapper or holosmith.

Condi engi is not viable .. at all. like, not even a little.

So I don't play.

In the past, the difference between the "meta" builds and "off-meta" builds was small. Like, sure there was one best spec, but the rest of the possibilities were all roughly 80-90% as effective as the meta spec.

Now, it feels like the meta builds are a full 200% better than off-meta builds. It's a difference that can't really be overcome except by extreme skill differential, and that doesn't make for fun gameplay.

Trying to make condi engi work in today's meta is like pulling teeth. I know, because I've seen people try it and I always feel bad when I wreck them on a meta engi build. :-\

Not really, just make pistol skills overpowered and make tool kit do much more conditions than just confusion and bleed.

Powercreeping everything up to the existing powercreep is kind of the opposite idea from the OP. If you want defined roles, that is not how you do it.

Buffing something that was always below the power curve to begin with and thus was hardly uses isn't power creep by definition.

Pre-HoT, condi engi was fine.

Didn't it still use Rifle for the Quality of Life and get most of it's damage out of kits though? It's been a while but I think that was how it worked.

It was usually dual pistols, flamethrower kit, tool kit, elixir s, and Supply Crate, I believe. I think Healing Turret too.

[coro.3176]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"coro.3176" said:I can only offer my opinion on why I personally don't play PvP any more. It's quite simple:

I want to play condi engi. I don't want to play bunker scrapper or holosmith.

Condi engi is not viable .. at all. like, not even a little.

So I don't play.

In the past, the difference between the "meta" builds and "off-meta" builds was small. Like, sure there was one best spec, but the rest of the possibilities were all roughly 80-90% as effective as the meta spec.

Now, it feels like the meta builds are a full 200% better than off-meta builds. It's a difference that can't really be overcome except by extreme skill differential, and that doesn't make for fun gameplay.

Trying to make condi engi work in today's meta is like pulling teeth. I know, because I've seen people try it and I always feel bad when I wreck them on a meta engi build. :-\

Not really, just make pistol skills overpowered and make tool kit do much more conditions than just confusion and bleed.

Powercreeping everything up to the existing powercreep is kind of the opposite idea from the OP. If you want defined roles, that is not how you do it.

Buffing something that was always below the power curve to begin with and thus was hardly uses isn't power creep by definition.

Pre-HoT, condi engi was fine.

Didn't it still use Rifle for the Quality of Life and get most of it's damage out of kits though? It's been a while but I think that was how it worked.

It was usually dual pistols, flamethrower kit, tool kit, elixir s, and Supply Crate, I believe. I think Healing Turret too.

Cele engi used Rifle, and was considered a top tier build, along with cele d/d ele at the time before the cele amulet was removed.

To picture how much power creep has happened, you can think back and pick pretty much any "OP build" from pre-HoT days, imagine that it was never nerfed and had access to all its original stats and traits that no longer exist in pvp.

Those builds were considered the best you could be playing and a formidable opponent in a teamfight or a 1v1. However, they weren't heads and tails better than anything else. They had a slight sustain advantage and tended to win a bit more than they should in a long engagement. They were maybe 10% better than the next best build.

Those builds would be utterly destroyed by the current crop of meta builds. That's where we're at in 2019. Imagine trying to play cele engi now. It wouldn't be able to kill anyone, and it would get deleted in 2s.

Anyway, to bring this back to population and lack of interest in pvp: some builds are fighting at pre-elite-spec levels of power. Others are fighting at post-PoF levels of power. There is a vast difference in that power level, and people who prefer the builds on one side can't compete with those that play builds on the other. If you can't compete fairly, then you tend not to play.

[Zexanima.7851]

This pretty much hits the nail on the head. At least for me these are pretty much the reasons I've decided to no longer play. With this many persistent big issues the mode feels like it's no longer supported. Same goes for WvW really.

[MrAmputatoes.6031]

PvP is practically dead. Botters, AFKS, match manipulation, low population and lack of meaningful balance means run whatever you want and just farm for rewards and easy ascended crap lol. Or play pve and earn infinitely better rewards. If you want to play a balanced pvp game this isnt it anymore.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Also this, might want to be considered at this point:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@witcher.3197 said:Only if they also remove solo

You may as well not even have a ranked Arena at that point.

^ I hate to say It, but this might actually be the way to go.

Remove Ranked, shuffle all associated seasonal rewards into Unranked, let ATs handle the competitive scene.

1. People only go out of their way to cheat for titles & status. No one is going to seriously waste time cheating for a pip farm if there were no rankings & titles attaches.
2. If ATs were the sole remaining competitive mode, it would get a lot more activity. This would encourage guilds to form around spvp again, at least more of them.
3. It condenses population into one mode again, save every 5 hours when AT pops.

Maybe a system could be implemented to display badges based on AT performance.

[Exedore.6320]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Also this, might want to be considered at this point:

Remove Ranked, shuffle all associated seasonal rewards into Unranked, let ATs handle the competitive scene.

1. People only go out of their way to cheat for titles & status. No one is going to seriously waste time cheating for a pip farm if there were no rankings & titles attaches.
2. If ATs were the sole remaining competitive mode, it would get a lot more activity. This would encourage guilds to form around spvp again, at least more of them.
3. It condenses population into one mode again, save every 5 hours when AT pops.

Maybe a system could be implemented to display badges based on AT performance.That would only work if ATs were on-demand (like they were for the first 6 months or so after launch).

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Exedore.6320 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Also this, might want to be considered at this point:

Remove Ranked, shuffle all associated seasonal rewards into Unranked, let ATs handle the competitive scene.

1. People only go out of their way to cheat for titles & status. No one is going to seriously waste time cheating for a pip farm if there were no rankings & titles attaches.
2. If ATs were the sole remaining competitive mode, it would get a lot more activity. This would encourage guilds to form around spvp again, at least more of them.
3. It condenses population into one mode again, save every 5 hours when AT pops.

Maybe a system could be implemented to display badges based on AT performance.That would only work if ATs were on-demand (like they were for the first 6 months or so after launch).

For sure, 100% agree.

If they would make 5 man tourney que maybe every 2 hours, and then fill the middle with some duo 2v2s, that'd be amazing. At least something to that effect.

[ArcanistSeven.8720]

i play for daily rewards now and with the poor balance im glad i left pvp if i want to play really competitive ill go play siege but it seems anet is content with letting content and gamemodes rot so why should i even care to play if they dont.

[Sindrener.1592]

CaNt SaVe PvP cUs oF tHiS MASSIVE wInTrAdInG AnD mAtChMaNiPuLaTioN eVeRy 3 GaMeS.I fOrGoT tO sAy ThIeF nEeDs MaSsIvE mObIlItY iNcReAsE

On a serious note i do actually agree on many things you are saying.

Meta is boring as hell, been the same since pof launch pretty much. For some classes (like thief) you are playing a meta build of S/D that has existed since the launch of the game, do you know how boring it is to play the same playstyle/weaponset going back 7 years? This is why a lot of people are asking for huge meta shakeup revamps, either by revamping complete weaponsets/utilities to actually make them playable in pvp, or nerf current meta specs so hard that they dont see the light of the day. OR just new elite specs alone even if they might be hella broken

I also encourage them to add 2v2 ats on a daily basis to lure more wvw people into pvp, perhaps that could make them start playing 5v5 conquest. I have also stated remove unranked to funnel more people into ranked the hard way, hate it or love it this is my opinion

on demand ats as well.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I'm curious as to what people think about the idea of having a beta season where ranked is a 3 man que, 3 players per team only.

Premade? kitten sure.Pug? Hit or miss.

@"sephiroth.4217" said:maybe just allow team queue again..

punish win traders and throwers.. they are speeding up the death of this mode. used to be a plat problem but now it happens from silver upwards.no one wants to play with that and appears most havent.

+1 for this. The sole reason Ive been skipping ranking is because I have to pray that 4 people:

dont get tilteddont get bribeddont have hardware issuesknow what theyre doing

before I even have a shot at actually figuring out how to win the damn match.

And given that almost everyone in pvp is tilted one way or another, its almost a guarantee that someone will AFK or throw to boost opposing team because they're tired of people on their team afking and want the title real bad.

Not worth my time. I have so many other things I can do with 15 minutes that aren't "trusting 4 people I don't know will do their jobs when there is incentive for them to not do so".

also BuFf ThIeF

[Stand The Wall.6987]

death match is definitely the best way to save pvp. 5v5 and 10v10. have ppl vote on how many ppl they want to vs just like map vote. make unranked death match and ranked conquest. gg ezpz.

[Sovarica.4368]

Some ideas..2v2 Tournament every Thurs/Friday a bit after reset maybe few hours after reset (this mode is a lot of fun yet hardly utilized and infinitely less toxic)New Backpack collectionReset all of the PvP Achievements for AP hunters

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:death match is definitely the best way to save pvp. 5v5 and 10v10. have ppl vote on how many ppl they want to vs just like map vote. make unranked death match and ranked conquest. gg ezpz.

Would love to see a 10v10 death match in a new map that was not Courtyard. Maybe something more akin to Obsidian Sanctum.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:A Thief could literally have its weapon skills removed, and it would still be relevant in matches due to its decap role through sheer mobility alone.

Buff thief

What if when Thief stole skills from transformation forms, it received new types of stolen skills?

For example, if a Thief steals from a Warrior in Rampage, it gets a stolen skill that lets the Thief go into Rampage for like 10s. The stolen skill could be a "Can Of Spinach" and feature special music when used.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:A Thief could literally have its weapon skills removed, and it would still be relevant in matches due to its decap role through sheer mobility alone.

Buff thief

What if when Thief stole skills from transformation forms, it received new types of stolen skills?

For example, if a Thief steals from a Warrior in Rampage, it gets a stolen skill that lets the Thief go into Rampage for like 10s. The stolen skill could be a "Can Of Spinach" and feature special music when used.

And if he stole off an Engineer in transformation, he would apply Olive Oyl to himself and be all jelly like, wobbly and distressed but hard to hit or catch.