Anet, please, do something about the EotM map. Turn it into a new border map

[XenesisII.1540]

@acdspydar.8920 said:

@"Zephyra.4709" said:You have to let it go...

Ain't nobody ever working on that map again. What is the point? To draw people away from WvW when everyone was complaining that eotm was taking players out of WvW? You can still exploit into towers with certain professions, the items sold by vendors are archaic and abuse LoS, let alone a couple objectives basically being permanent wall destroyer(s). That would require an awful lot of attention to rework... may as well just make an entire new map and do we really want DBL 2.0? Can we trust them?

eotm will stay as it is since it's tied to AP + serves as an overflow map for when WvW has it's queues. I just don't see any point "reworking" something that has long been a debate.. let it rest in it's grave already.

With that logic, shouldn't we all just give up on WvW in general? Every point you made can be applied to any of the current maps (archaic vendors, abuse of LoS, and exploits for tower and keeps). Of course "do we really want DBL 2.0" suggests there's a massive problem with DBL in the first place. DBL requires skill to play on. Should it be Red server's home bl? Lol, no make it green's. Still, every time there's something that "probably requires too much work," the default excuse is "well, ANet wont fix it, so I guess to hell with it." Which brings me to my main point, with that attitude, why not just give up on the game?

It's called managing your expectations. Some of us have played wvw since day one and been on the forums since day one. The veterans know how anet operates in the wvw section of the game and forums, how long it takes for development and fixes. It took them like a year to develop eotm and probably another year to develop desert back when they had more staff on hand, imagine today when they've trimmed the staff down especially the wvw section, how long would it take to rework eotm? even desert could still use some extra development, four years later, heck I'm sure people are still exploiting into the keeps still.

This suggestion to convert eotm into a regular wvw map is also not the first time it's been brought up, it's probably been a dozen times by now, with just about the same conclusions in the end, anet is not going to pour time into this, they might as well make a new one, but the two new ones they made were the least liked wvw maps.Also playing on DBL doesn't require skill, it just more patience for it's annoying terrain.

[acdspydar.8920]

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@acdspydar.8920 said:

@"Zephyra.4709" said:You have to let it go...

Ain't nobody ever working on that map again. What is the point? To draw people away from WvW when everyone was complaining that eotm was taking players out of WvW? You can still exploit into towers with certain professions, the items sold by vendors are archaic and abuse LoS, let alone a couple objectives basically being permanent wall destroyer(s). That would require an awful lot of attention to rework... may as well just make an entire new map and do we really want DBL 2.0? Can we trust them?

eotm will stay as it is since it's tied to AP + serves as an overflow map for when WvW has it's queues. I just don't see any point "reworking" something that has long been a debate.. let it rest in it's grave already.

With that logic, shouldn't we all just give up on WvW in general? Every point you made can be applied to any of the current maps (archaic vendors, abuse of LoS, and exploits for tower and keeps). Of course "do we really want DBL 2.0" suggests there's a massive problem with DBL in the first place. DBL requires skill to play on. Should it be Red server's home bl? Lol, no make it green's. Still, every time there's something that "probably requires too much work," the default excuse is "well, ANet wont fix it, so I guess to hell with it." Which brings me to my main point, with that attitude, why not just give up on the game?

It's called managing your expectations. Some of us have played wvw since day one and been on the forums since day one. The veterans know how anet operates in the wvw section of the game and forums, how long it takes for development and fixes. It took them like a year to develop eotm and probably another year to develop desert back when they had more staff on hand, imagine today when they've trimmed the staff down especially the wvw section, how long would it take to rework eotm? even desert could still use some extra development, four years later, heck I'm sure people are still exploiting into the keeps still.

This suggestion to convert eotm into a regular wvw map is also not the first time it's been brought up, it's probably been a dozen times by now, with just about the same conclusions in the end, anet is not going to pour time into this, they might as well make a new one, but the two new ones they made were the least liked wvw maps.Also playing on DBL doesn't require skill, it just more patience for it's annoying terrain.

I haven't been a solid forum warrior, but I have been around WvW since day one. I don't expect them to listen, or even care. However, I will voice my opinion (as will most everyone) in hopes maybe one day someone will get an inspiration to create something potentially fantastic. Though, I agree they won't do anything with EotM, which will sit in desolation (and it is a shame). I hope they do something radical though to change it (it being the state of WvW) sooner rather than too much later, like it's not already too late... The population who plays WvW becomes thinner every week it seems.Regardless,Here's hoping to ....something

[TheGrimm.5624]

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:You guys realize there's a big difference between eotm and borderland maps and even ebg right? You can't just plug eotm in, it would require a lot of rework, work they might as well put to another new map instead.

No, I actually don't see what you mean here and I think I have guessed at it from few directions. Its less biased to a side but there is nothing saying it has to be biased toward any side. The keeps all have their own strengths and weaknesses, so would give the homeside the strongest one to defend and maybe spawn towers at reset but wouldn't see it needing any layout changes, IMO.

Yes borderlands are made to favor the home side.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World#Map-based_differences

But there is a difference in the number of structures therefore an imbalance to points scoring on the map compared to alpine and desert, and for borderland maps they all need to have equal amount of structures and scoring to make it fair for all 3 teams. There is also no blood lust ruins, that would have to be built in.

The map can be plugged in for ebg because it's the same concept and it's equal for all 3 sides in terms of structures, but then you run into the second problem of not having the proper wvw upgrades of structures and guild upgrades. But that could be ignored since it's just the one map and it affects everyone equally.

But how many people are going to be happy about losing ebg for eotm? With no structure or guild upgrades it's going to make it a lot easier for trains to just roll through the map.

Don't get me wrong, I think the one thing most people would agree upon across servers is that EB draws numbers so I wouldn't be on the side of swapping it out. Getting rid of an alpine, if not clear I see that map as dull, was over it years ago. In regards to points and structures EoTM could be adjusted to bring it in line with the others, would not see this as roadblock. If still out of balance give it slightly more points and then red gets it since they are already usually the 3rd place side so a little edge wouldn't hurt. Shrines, they could either be added or rolled into the resource generators. So no, still not seeing a vast investment on ANet's part to make this happen, its a player mindset thing. People need to learn to adjust. We lost so many players over time due to staleness, we need more diversity in maps. Been a game time ago now but one of the things that keep people in a WvW environment in past games were a variety in the maps to contest over. Different maps, different tactics keep fights fresh. So for me, no still not seeing why this is a big change to implement.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Caveat: If ANet does consider this, there should a posting online and an in game email sent to the player base to please visit the forums for a poll to vote on it. Again the forum goers are a vocal group but I am sure we are a minority of the player base and changes like this should cover the majority of players versus us playing Forum Wars 2.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

EOTM can't be used as a BL map, just stop it. It is bad enough with the differences in size and defense of DBL and ABL. EOTM would need full redesign to be used as a BL map with even a hint of balance. I never liked the idea of red BL always being DBL, I think they should have rotated all BLs between ABL and DBL for balance reasons.

Not only that but lots of mechanics would need to be changed and redesigned, you might as well start over with a whole new map for the work that would end up going into it. If you want to play EOTM, go play it, it's there, it has not gone anywhere.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:EOTM can't be used as a BL map, just stop it. It is bad enough with the differences in size and defense of DBL and ABL. EOTM would need full redesign to be used as a BL map with even a hint of balance. I never liked the idea of red BL always being DBL, I think they should have rotated all BLs between ABL and DBL for balance reasons.

Not only that but lots of mechanics would need to be changed and redesigned, you might as well start over with a whole new map for the work that would end up going into it. If you want to play EOTM, go play it, it's there, it has not gone anywhere.

Actually, no. It can be. Just saying it can't does not make it so. If ANet says they can't then will go with it, but will err on the side that they can versus assuming they can't. That's not the same as people saying would prefer not, but hiding behind thinking they can't do a thing is not something will side with.

Size: We already have different size maps so that's mote. And we have mounts.Balance: It was already designed with balance else it wouldn't have been an overflow.Mechanics: Assuming what you mean here. So shrines, we would need to add or set some objectives to be dual purpose. No yaks, doesn't matter that much since we have supply generators, people just wouldn't be able to run guild missions for yak kills. Different keeps, that's fine. Don't think mounts would bypass the structure but that could be tested. Scoring, aka points would need to be brought in line with other home borderlands, that's a database value. Structure ranking up, if it needs changed don't see that as a roadblock.Play EoTM today if we like the map: It doesn't roll into the weekly score so that's not a great fit, no reason not to support our servers.

The point of this is we need to replace one of the ABLs and we have a map already. Put it into play so that we have 4 unique maps for people to play on. That make it a fifth map in the fight, that would work as well.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:EOTM can't be used as a BL map, just stop it. It is bad enough with the differences in size and defense of DBL and ABL. EOTM would need full redesign to be used as a BL map with even a hint of balance. I never liked the idea of red BL always being DBL, I think they should have rotated all BLs between ABL and DBL for balance reasons.

Not only that but lots of mechanics would need to be changed and redesigned, you might as well start over with a whole new map for the work that would end up going into it. If you want to play EOTM, go play it, it's there, it has not gone anywhere.

Actually, no. It can be. Just saying it can't does not make it so. If ANet says they can't then will go with it, but will err on the side that they can versus assuming they can't. That's not the same as people saying would prefer not, but hiding behind thinking they can't do a thing is not something will side with.

Size: We already have different size maps so that's mote. And we have mounts.Balance: It was already designed with balance else it wouldn't have been an overflow.Mechanics: Assuming what you mean here. So shrines, we would need to add or set some objectives to be dual purpose. No yaks, doesn't matter that much since we have supply generators, people just wouldn't be able to run guild missions for yak kills. Different keeps, that's fine. Don't think mounts would bypass the structure but that could be tested. Scoring, aka points would need to be brought in line with other home borderlands, that's a database value. Structure ranking up, if it needs changed don't see that as a roadblock.Play EoTM today if we like the map: It doesn't roll into the weekly score so that's not a great fit, no reason not to support our servers.

The point of this is we need to replace one of the ABLs and we have a map already. Put it into play so that we have 4 unique maps for people to play on. That make it a fifth map in the fight, that would work as well.

No, it can't, not hiding behind anything other than simple fact.

Number of structures is not the same, size is more than just running distance. As such potential points for the map is far higher and is closer to an EBG map than a BL map. Balance has to do with lots of PvE balance in things like scorpions etc. that are totally broken. The map would need a full rework and design to be able to be mixed in with the other BL maps, so much so that they might as well make a new one, like I said above.

[schlake.2718]

People used to play EotM because it was fun. You earned levels, and killed people. Then they added pips and reward tracks, and EotM was left out. All EotM offers now is fun, and apparently people don't want fun. They want pips and reward tracks.

If ANET should do anything, they should remove rewards tracks from WVW.

[Voltekka.2375]

@schlake.2718 said:People used to play EotM because it was fun. You earned levels, and killed people. Then they added pips and reward tracks, and EotM was left out. All EotM offers now is fun, and apparently people don't want fun. They want pips and reward tracks.

If ANET should do anything, they should remove rewards tracks from WVW.

Let me rephrase that a bit:People used to play eotm because it was an endless ktrain with both pve and wvw rewards. You powerlevelled toons and avoided fights 24/7 to keep the ktrain alive. Then they added pips and skirmish tickets (eotm had and has reward tracks itself), they removed the pve element of power levelling and eotm was left out. All eotm offers now is what it was meant to offer, meaning a waiting room to kill time until your queue pops without all wvw and many pvp rewards. Apparently, people dont want fewer rewards. They want pips exclusive skins, skirmish tickets.

[Dawdler.8521]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:Caveat: If ANet does consider this, there should a posting online and an in game email sent to the player base to please visit the forums for a poll to vote on it. Again the forum goers are a vocal group but I am sure we are a minority of the player base and changes like this should cover the majority of players versus us playing Forum Wars 2.No they should just flip EB map for EoTM map one reset without any kind of warning.

That's about as reasonable as people demanding that the warclaw is to be removed, but so many seems fine with that so tbh it makes sense. The forums are always right after all.

[acdspydar.8920]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:Caveat: If ANet does consider this, there should a posting online and an in game email sent to the player base to please visit the forums for a poll to vote on it. Again the forum goers are a vocal group but I am sure we are a minority of the player base and changes like this should cover the majority of players versus us playing Forum Wars 2.No they should just flip EB map for EoTM map one reset without any kind of warning.

That's about as reasonable as people demanding that the warclaw is to be removed, but so many seems fine with that so tbh it makes sense. The forums are always right after all.

The salt factory would be delightful.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@acdspydar.8920 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:Caveat: If ANet does consider this, there should a posting online and an in game email sent to the player base to please visit the forums for a poll to vote on it. Again the forum goers are a vocal group but I am sure we are a minority of the player base and changes like this should cover the majority of players versus us playing Forum Wars 2.No they should just flip EB map for EoTM map one reset without any kind of warning.

That's about as reasonable as people demanding that the warclaw is to be removed, but so many seems fine with that so tbh it makes sense. The forums are always right after all.

The salt factory would be delightful.

As I said above, like EoTM but no I think EB is the only map that is most queued across most tiers and server groups where as I have seen/heard mixed results for the DBL and ABL. Hence the reason I lean toward replacing one of the ABL since they are less frequently queued be that there is two of them or some other reason.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@schlake.2718 said:People used to play EotM because it was fun. You earned levels, and killed people. Then they added pips and reward tracks, and EotM was left out. All EotM offers now is fun, and apparently people don't want fun. They want pips and reward tracks.

If ANET should do anything, they should remove rewards tracks from WVW.

No reward tracks ands Pips were/are needed so that WvW isn't just a gold sync. If we could get those added to EoTM and EoTM added to Warscore we might be onto something. It was a fun map but if you play it over a map that is scored its a very selfish way to play. Not that winning a week impacts much but it's more frustrating knowing you have numbers that could aid in a fight but they are fighting in a WvW area that isn't connected to the rest so they really aren't out helping your side.

[joneirikb.7506]

Remove HomeBL, make tweaks to AlpineBL and DesertBL and change them into BG maps like Eternal.

Then you can have EBG and cycle in AlpineBG, DesertBG, and EdgeBG back and forth as you wish, even rotate maps, without the whole "tree maps must be identical!" handicap.

You could even add a mechanic for opening and closing maps depending on the population at the time. So you could possibly have 2 EBG+Alpine+desert+Edge at the same time, or middle of night on wednesday only a single EBG.

I would personally rather enjoy that each map had some slightly different mechanics, like only Alpine had bloodlust, Edge didn't have tactivators and guild claiming or tier3 stuff, etc. Make them more unique/different.

[hunkamania.7561]

They fired 100+ devs and alliances will be pushing 2 years soon without release since bringing it up. the 1-2 guys working on wvw are busy with mounts so i doubt they'll do anything with the EoTM wasteland. It would be cool to make eotm CORE only but goodluck with that.

[Lexi.1398]

Tbh my problems with eotm will be resolved whenever/ifever alliances come, i don't mind eotm but i'm both a nub and lazy most of the time and im only on the same side as a few of my friends sometimes (when our servers link)- the only people i trust to be crazy enough to want to every last drop of AP like me! Really, i don't see any other reason to do eotm these days and even if there was ONE guild dedicated to eotm farming for ap, they'd probs not be on my server :p

.... also i personally don't know anyone who idles while queueing in eotm at all, probs cus i've never been in a scenario where all 4 maps were queued.

[Taobella.6597]

i think if it was made in to a core map it would need some balance

[knite.1542]

I am sure that it will be booming again once alliances hit! We just have to be patient.

[RedShark.9548]

@hunkamania.7561 said:They fired 100+ devs and alliances will be pushing 2 years soon without release since bringing it up. the 1-2 guys working on wvw are busy with mounts so i doubt they'll do anything with the EoTM wasteland. It would be cool to make eotm CORE only but goodluck with that.

It was stated that only ppl that worked on other projects (not gw2 related at all) were fired, if that is true then the amount of ppl working on gw2 stayed the same.

[hunkamania.7561]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:They fired 100+ devs and alliances will be pushing 2 years soon without release since bringing it up. the 1-2 guys working on wvw are busy with mounts so i doubt they'll do anything with the EoTM wasteland. It would be cool to make eotm CORE only but goodluck with that.

It was stated that only ppl that worked on other projects (not gw2 related at all) were fired, if that is true then the amount of ppl working on gw2 stayed the same.

They can state whatever they want who knows what's going on. I can tell you this, we are still getting little to no support in wvw and that's facts

[RedShark.9548]

@hunkamania.7561 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:They fired 100+ devs and alliances will be pushing 2 years soon without release since bringing it up. the 1-2 guys working on wvw are busy with mounts so i doubt they'll do anything with the EoTM wasteland. It would be cool to make eotm CORE only but goodluck with that.

It was stated that only ppl that worked on other projects (not gw2 related at all) were fired, if that is true then the amount of ppl working on gw2 stayed the same.

They can state whatever they want who knows what's going on. I can tell you this, we are still getting little to no support in wvw and that's facts

Yes, but that was even before ncsoft told them to actually work on gw2 and not other projects. Going around and saying that wvw has even less devs working on it than before is just an assumption.I was just telling you how they say it is, which is the only thing we have.

[bambi.6214]

I'd love to have more activity on EotM. The map is mostly unexplored and the map design is very unique, so it would be a fresh experience for a lot of players. Figuring out new siege spots to defend/attack is always fun.

[Rod.6581]

Mini EOTM, 20v20v20, so it can actually fill up and serve as a queue time entertainment.

EDIT: And add some PvE event to original one so people who asked for that have something that would resemble PvE map with PvP enabled, since is useless now anyway apart as GvG grounds. And for GvG grounds I'd like something that actually focuses on GvG.

[neven.3785]

Best part about eotm is when you zone in and comment in map acting all excited that they finally enabled gliding last patch.

[SlateSloan.3654]

well EOTM was never meant to be a map, it was meant to be a placeholder for people who where in queue of EBG and Borderlands. When there was still XP Rewards alot people used it for leveling their characters as there was no level up tome spam in rewards.

Nowadays there hardly are any queues on the wvw maps anymore so people always have a chance to just enter one of the 4 maps and no XP Reward needed as normal wvw grants you all you need to quickly level up the next toon with tomes.

It would maybe make sense to alter the map and split it in 3 huge areas and each area got a waypoint and a GvG Stadium.

There could be 3 matches at the same time on the map which would be great regarding GvG Tournaments, people could gather there on matchday.It would be cool if people could gather on a map and watch GvG like a Football match on the terraces of the Stadium then. I did sports myself in the past, nothing better than playing infront a full crowd of people.

Imagine a fight where the rest of the scene is live at the ground ingame instead of twitch.Just skillag and anets old technology would spoil the fun yet again ofc.

There could be indeed good stuff if anet just wanted and stop putting our money in projects which never come alive...