AntiToxin Fire Sw/D Weaver gameplay + discussion — Guild Wars 2 Forums

AntiToxin Fire Sw/D Weaver gameplay + discussion

SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
edited June 20, 2019 in Elementalist

Build:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsYncMAFNgF5C+4CM5iFBAr4N0GSD3v6a9tOIAMBeAA-j1hAABop8zU1fgUJ45PAAAOBAZv/wi6JCAgA4m38m38m3srbzbezbezbezbezbWKgtWGB-w

PvP Variant:
https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Weaver_-_Fire_Weaver

Gameplay:
The relevant clips occur from: 00:00 to 02:56, and 07:58 to 09:53. If you have no interest in the staff DPS clips please skip them. I release these videos as semi-weekly compilations, usually with no preference for one single build.

notes
- saffron bread is a nice option on this build

-attune to fire cleanses 2 condis, water 5 is a condi cleanse, swapping weapon cleanses every 9 seconds, have negative condi duration which also helps fight condi.

-your might is generated by getting hits off in fire, thus if you're good at cleaving with fire 1 autoattack you will be at an advantage. also important to get some autoattacks off because you burn with the 3rd consecutive hit in fire.

-use air 2 and air 4 when mobility is needed

-be aware you're more vulnerable to power damage than you are condi, although with your burst & evade potential, fighting power builds is usually not too hard

-remember attuning to earth will proc protection, your most valuable boon besides might. attuning to air is good sometimes if you can manage it because it will give you swiftness which shouldn't be underestimated, and also air/fire dual attack burns but its hard to hit so use it carefully.

-remember your elite skill gives you a temporarily 20% buffed condi burst potential, as well as -20% incoming power damage, +20% boon duration and +50% movement speed

-good burst opener is to hit your glyph + primordial stance while leaping with fire 2 and then fully attuning. sometimes you may also want to pop your elite as a fight begins, mostly for the -20% incoming damage to avoid their burst.

-don't rely on riptide, but make sure you use it every 12 seconds or so to keep heals up

-remember your primordial stance, twist of fate and elite will give you stability

Discussion:
STARTS AT 18:30. Note: some mature language. not a tutorial, just a discussion / outline of the build. Fire Weaver portion begins at 22:30, but if you're new to the build entirely, it will be best to start earlier at 18:30.
https://youtu.be/3rF59QjE_00?t=1111

| Solemn [PAL][shrd][wHo][DoM][BOZ] |
| Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part II |
| Fire Weaver Isn't Unfair You Just Need To Understand It |
| Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part III |
| Ex-Anvil Rock (RIP) |
| NSP (main) | CD (alt) |

Comments

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think you would get more out of water fire weaver remember every reg is 2 clears with that rune. You could even give up using fire and go water arcain weaver for a bit of aoe support clears for a more grouped aimed play.

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsYncMAFNgF5C+4CM5iFTAjoCEAaAFTxC4V8+M3mfzA-j1BEABLv/Amq/AwDAQQlgap87hTAQf6JCAgA4m38m38m3srbzbezbezbezbezbWKAWXGB-w

    At the end of the day your still going to be lacking in big group fights sadly its just not there most of the time.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • solemn.9608solemn.9608 Member ✭✭
    edited June 20, 2019

    Hey thanks for the feedback! You’re right, I’ve tried both and they are good options. Fire-water seems to be better for team fights in my experience, while arcane/water is best for bunker play style.

    However, Arcane/fire provides burn duration, might Gen through two sources, +10% pwr dmg to burning targets as well as some condi cleanse + all the benefits of arcane including reduced attunement cd, vigor and a passive block/Stunbreak. I realize I am preaching to the choir by saying this, but I am emphasizing my point that I believe it to be optimal for roaming. See below, final paragraph.

    Arcane/water sw/d Weaver is a very different play style - almost not even comparable to fire weaver play style. Fire weaver does not need to heal as much because of the incredible pressure it allows the player to output. It also catches a lot of people off guard when trey receive a full 25 night stack hybrid condi/power DPS burst.

    I don’t like to bunker down too much and as for group play I will, personally, just use staff for anything over 5 players in WvW. Despite people saying staff is bad for small group play (though this attitude is slowly changing as more monkeys realize what staff can do in small groups) it is very objectively the best option assuming you can utilize evades/defensive utilities to stay alive and predict enemy ganks by knowing their build and play style WHILE utilizing good movement techniques and strategies. I mention this only because I think if group play is the ideal, sw/d is not the optimal choice anyway unless we are talking about ranked PvP which is an entirely different and nuanced conversation for another time.

    The biggest critique I often receive against this build, actually almost any build I play, is that it doesn’t excel in x or y regard because it is vulnerable. I need to humbly remind folks that ele is similar to thief in regards to the skill ceiling, what may be true for one player is definitely not the case for another.

    @Jski.6180 said:
    I think you would get more out of water fire weaver remember every reg is 2 clears with that rune. You could even give up using fire and go water arcain weaver for a bit of aoe support clears for a more grouped aimed play.

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsYncMAFNgF5C+4CM5iFTAjoCEAaAFTxC4V8+M3mfzA-j1BEABLv/Amq/AwDAQQlgap87hTAQf6JCAgA4m38m38m3srbzbezbezbezbezbWKAWXGB-w

    At the end of the day your still going to be lacking in big group fights sadly its just not there most of the time.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sadly bunker is the only real way to play sword weaver in wvw setting and i guess other pvp game types. Its too easy to die on ele to fight real human AI if the mobs had better AI you could not play ele at all.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Sadly bunker is the only real way to play sword weaver in wvw setting and i guess other pvp game types. Its too easy to die on ele to fight real human AI if the mobs had better AI you could not play ele at all.

    Not to sound sassy, but did you really watch my video? This is just blatantly untrue, at least in the way you worded it. I will say that you may be correct if you mean that sw/d bunker is most viable for plat ranked pvp, as this is generally an accepted norm (but not necessarily true...). However I am not running a bunker build in that video and many of the people I fought were at least reasonably competent (but definitely not top tier players, I will admit). Just like thief, it's high risk high reward, and you get what you give.

    It's difficult, and it's supposed to be difficult. Again man, I mean all due respect, please don't think I'm intending to be rude, but it is genuinely irritating that so many people actually think that sw/d bunker is the only way to play sw/d.

    Fire weaver is on metabattle for a reason (I realize this is technically a logical fallacy/appeal to popularity & authority, but I will still make this point). Just because it is not viable for you does not mean that other players can't make it viable for themselves.

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Weaver_-_Fire_Weaver

    The community gave this build a rating, making it top-tier: Great.
    Focused on: Condition Damage.
    Designed for: Conquest

    Vs ...

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Weaver_-_Mender's_Sword

    The community gave this build a rating, making it second-tier: Good.
    Focused on: Direct damage, Mobility, Control.
    Designed for: Conquest

    edit - see next response

    | Solemn [PAL][shrd][wHo][DoM][BOZ] |
    | Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part II |
    | Fire Weaver Isn't Unfair You Just Need To Understand It |
    | Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part III |
    | Ex-Anvil Rock (RIP) |
    | NSP (main) | CD (alt) |

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Sadly bunker is the only real way to play sword weaver in wvw setting and i guess other pvp game types. Its too easy to die on ele to fight real human AI if the mobs had better AI you could not play ele at all.

    Not to sound sassy, but did you really watch my video? This is just blatantly untrue, at least in the way you worded it. I will say that you may be correct if you mean that sw/d bunker is most viable for plat ranked pvp, as this is generally an accepted norm (but not necessarily true...). However I am not running a bunker build in that video and many of the people I fought were at least reasonably competent (but definitely not top tier players, I will admit). Just like thief, it's high risk high reward, and you get what you give.

    It's difficult, and it's supposed to be difficult. Again man, I mean all due respect, please don't think I'm intending to be rude, but it is genuinely irritating that so many people actually think that sw/d bunker is the only way to play sw/d.

    Fire weaver is on metabattle for a reason (I realize this is technically a logical fallacy/appeal to popularity & authority, but I will still make this point). Just because it is not viable for you does not mean that other players can't make it viable for themselves.

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Weaver_-_Fire_Weaver

    The community gave this build a rating, making it top-tier: Great.
    Focused on: Condition Damage.
    Designed for: Conquest

    Vs ...

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Weaver_-_Mender's_Sword

    The community gave this build a rating, making it second-tier: Good.
    Focused on: Direct damage, Mobility, Control.
    Designed for: Conquest

    Most ppl would call cele as bunker gear. That and every thing your taking in weaver is bunker aimed. That is what most ppl mean by bunker.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 21, 2019

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Sadly bunker is the only real way to play sword weaver in wvw setting and i guess other pvp game types. Its too easy to die on ele to fight real human AI if the mobs had better AI you could not play ele at all.

    Not to sound sassy, but did you really watch my video? This is just blatantly untrue, at least in the way you worded it. I will say that you may be correct if you mean that sw/d bunker is most viable for plat ranked pvp, as this is generally an accepted norm (but not necessarily true...). However I am not running a bunker build in that video and many of the people I fought were at least reasonably competent (but definitely not top tier players, I will admit). Just like thief, it's high risk high reward, and you get what you give.

    It's difficult, and it's supposed to be difficult. Again man, I mean all due respect, please don't think I'm intending to be rude, but it is genuinely irritating that so many people actually think that sw/d bunker is the only way to play sw/d.

    Fire weaver is on metabattle for a reason (I realize this is technically a logical fallacy/appeal to popularity & authority, but I will still make this point). Just because it is not viable for you does not mean that other players can't make it viable for themselves.

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Weaver_-_Fire_Weaver

    The community gave this build a rating, making it top-tier: Great.
    Focused on: Condition Damage.
    Designed for: Conquest

    Vs ...

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Weaver_-_Mender's_Sword

    The community gave this build a rating, making it second-tier: Good.
    Focused on: Direct damage, Mobility, Control.
    Designed for: Conquest

    Most ppl would call cele as bunker gear. That and every thing your taking in weaver is bunker aimed. That is what most ppl mean by bunker.

    Ok. I sincerely apologize if I misinterpreted you, or if any of my reply was unwarranted. I feel a bit silly now, thank you for your patience.

    Just to be clear. I don't think it's possible to utilize a bunker playstyle on fire weaver due to Fire traitline not contributing anything to a bunker playstyle. Can still blast waters with high effectiveness because of cele gear, but if you try to ' bunker ' with it it does not end well due to relatively low sustain. But ... this is semantics anyway right?

    Cheers

    | Solemn [PAL][shrd][wHo][DoM][BOZ] |
    | Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part II |
    | Fire Weaver Isn't Unfair You Just Need To Understand It |
    | Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part III |
    | Ex-Anvil Rock (RIP) |
    | NSP (main) | CD (alt) |

  • I've notice they players fighting him don't know how to cc or boon strip him properly hehee. Those are rare fights and are fun to watch. Most metas can face tank eles. If you are fighting skilled warriors or SB or even perm chill Revs, you will have a problem.

    Also you don't have to play bunker you can use a full glass builds and use water or fire and still yield simiar results. Ele damage has low damage coefficients so your real damage is having ferocity, decent crit chance and might stacking.

    Very fun build nonthless but watch out for CC /chills and damage exchanges. Also opponents on equal skill level.

    Sword Weavers are decent 1v1 vs non POF metas in wvw. Sadly sword still has low packet damage, very small range and is easy to read. Good luck catching holo, mirage, or firebrand if fleeing from battle. You will never catch the others. And chill from Reapers gibs you so hard.

  • Waisenpai.6028Waisenpai.6028 Member ✭✭
    edited June 24, 2019

    reminds me of G00DIH has the same overall idea as you but uses durability runes and can go scholar. Stil both of your builds requires idea situations better when not alone or vs only specific non toxic builds.

    Sword Weavers are decent 1v1 vs non POF metas in wvw. Sadly sword still has low packet damage, very small range and is easy to read. Good luck catching holo, mirage, or firebrand if fleeing from battle. You will never catch the others. And chill from Reapers gibs you so hard.

  • Hehe good observation and thanks for being a sport about it, plenty of folks on this forum that would jump straight into "this noob is fighting noobs" territory lol. Yeah vs competent players on good builds it is much more difficult of course, but this is also why I run hybrid power/condi - I no longer need to worry so much about protection because I can just stack 3000 (more if I'm lucky / they're kinda bad) burn ticks in a few seconds -- which gets cleansed of course, but the re-application rate is pretty good and the cele stats allow for reasonable Effective Damage through power to fill in the gaps.

    Thanks for linking that video, he's very good and yes his 'style' is certainly similar. Not very predictable, knows when to use what, jerks the camera around a lot lol.

    I don't know if it's worth noting or not, but I've toyed around with pretty much everything that is reasonably viable on weaver --- which doesn't mean I know what is best, because I don't, but, I've tried mostly every build going around hehe, most are good choices. My second favourite is Pack rune cele running primordial stance and lightning flash, but I find that antitoxin gives me the least vulnerability from my biggest weakness (condi mirage) while optimizing my biggest strength (insane burst condi damage through burning). That's just why I run it, but I'm not saying it's better/best.

    @Waisenpai.6028 said:
    I've notice they players fighting him don't know how to cc or boon strip him properly hehee. Those are rare fights and are fun to watch. Most metas can face tank eles. If you are fighting skilled warriors or SB or even perm chill Revs, you will have a problem.

    Also you don't have to play bunker you can use a full glass builds and use water or fire and still yield simiar results. Ele damage has low damage coefficients so your real damage is having ferocity, decent crit chance and might stacking.

    Very fun build nonthless but watch out for CC /chills and damage exchanges. Also opponents on equal skill level.

    | Solemn [PAL][shrd][wHo][DoM][BOZ] |
    | Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part II |
    | Fire Weaver Isn't Unfair You Just Need To Understand It |
    | Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part III |
    | Ex-Anvil Rock (RIP) |
    | NSP (main) | CD (alt) |

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    I run Antitoxin on my Fire Weaver, it's less HP and Toughness but one tanky gear piece seemed enough for a trade. I tried crafting a lot around Fire Weaver and though the stats I am running aren't exactly the same, as the Healing Power is less while focusing on almost double that amount of Condi Damage. To be honest, the build is good if you can use it, I was once 1v3'ing a roaming guild and was able to down 2 of them, before it was 1v6 and the stalling to sustain for over a minute with evade frames and Focus... and it was around their NPCs so I kind of rallied up twice from that, until their Scrapper came in... and... you know... I was completely denied...

    Surely, Ele is well known for its PvP/dueling side... not so good... but I like this build and I feel that it's unexpected in terms of burns, and is lethal vs less mobile/cleansing builds, it forces the enemy to hold on their cleanses which can also hold onto something else helpful for them in the fight other than cleansing. It falls though in XvX if there is high condi cleanse or low condi pressure on your side to allow you to put in the damage.

    I am trying to let go of Healing Power and maybe let the Food be the only source so I can hit that 1700+ Condi damage while still maintaining Power, but bursty classes become a problem. Another problem is the lack of chasing when I play Focus, yet the lack of burst sustain when on Dagger.

    Overall, it's the offensive side of Water-Arcane. Kind of a model for what Ele should achieve from combining Water-Arcane build with Fire Weaver's.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Force.2841Force.2841 Member
    edited June 26, 2019

    First fight thief was not competent, legit stood in your primordial stance...first sign of a noob.
    2nd thief was just spamming kitten kitten who plays like that these days.
    Necro again clearly a noob..standing again all day in your primordial stance.
    Warrior fight was okay but i can also see your just randomly spamming kitten a times, like you used your elite cc randomly lol.
    Thief fight he was doing everything right but you got him good with that fire grab so cant really judge how kitten he was, that 7k burst damage is just a deadly mistake on their side.
    LMAO that weaver...cmon you cant expect me to think he's good, he just straight up got destroyed.
    Having fought tons of scary just a bit OP revs, that rev was barely decent, he was slow on his combos, you shoulda been dead those few seconds you had no stun breakers or evades but he took forever to do kitten and worst of all hes running hammer....must be a zerg build that got tempted to fight you.
    That last warrior...oh god worst warrior ever lol.

    That said I have also taken interests in fireweaver build in wvw. I have my own but feels like it lacks at keeping up with people. If a ranger or Rev want to escape, they can. Hell any class can escape againts weavers.

    What I would love to see is seeing your damage againts scrappers or FBs or holos. Currently my fire weaver build melts even tanky class in 2-3 rotations but lacks in keeping up with classes that can kite all day like mesmers or rangers/revs that are aware of primordial stance pulsing. Not trashing the build as some of the damage I saw was nice but won't really trust it until i see you at least killing a scrapper, any decent scrapper currently cant die againts Cellofrags build so little dmg so I do think fireweaver is the way to go. If I wasnt lazy id test out your build lol but im already busy trying to perfect mine which in itself could be a waste of time so who knows.

    Also would like to ask have you fought a decent condi mesmer yet? Cellofrags build cant do kitten to em unless they suck at mobility. Fire weaver can kill em but again they just panick and run away only to come back and keep it up so again hit hard by weavers weakness of keeping up with class that move all over the place. Wondering how effective your condi cleanse and -duration is againts condi mesmers .

  • zencow.3651zencow.3651 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2019

    @Force.2841 said:
    killing a scrapper

    If it's a heal scrapper it's impossible even with a full pve sw/d dps build, they can just stand still and tank it all even without dodging.

  • @zencow.3651 said:

    @Force.2841 said:
    killing a scrapper

    If it's a heal scrapper it's impossible even with a full pve sw/d dps build, they can just stand still and tank it all even without dodging.

    Have you tried fire weaver yet? Even in spvp have yet to find a scrapper that can tank the burn dmg, have met a few that made the mistake of standing still thinking they were unkilleable and bam dead. The smart ones leave and enter circle but i gain the circle anyways and they just leave if they dont get help.

  • zencow.3651zencow.3651 Member ✭✭✭

    @Force.2841 said:

    @zencow.3651 said:

    @Force.2841 said:
    killing a scrapper

    If it's a heal scrapper it's impossible even with a full pve sw/d dps build, they can just stand still and tank it all even without dodging.

    Have you tried fire weaver yet? Even in spvp have yet to find a scrapper that can tank the burn dmg, have met a few that made the mistake of standing still thinking they were unkilleable and bam dead. The smart ones leave and enter circle but i gain the circle anyways and they just leave if they dont get help.

    sure the bandwagon scrappers that run hammer die fast, however the better ones know pistol/shield is the way and save the extra cleanses for your primordial stance

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