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It is definitely time to end duo q.


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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:then when proven guilty the thread and video is removed

Or just email the video to Anet as instructed...

so its easier to hide and delete?you can send anet a video of someone hacking season after season and nothing gets done about it... I dont know what a video of match manipulation will accomplish to be honest. its so lame in comparison.a friend of mine was caught hacking a few years back, video evidence and all sorts were posted (and deleted).. I still play with him weekly. He still hacks but only in PvE now.

To be honest ive recently hit a spot where ive stopped caring and im genuinely thinking of pulling this crap myself on an alt because I know nothing will be done about it.not too mention I know half the people on the forums will blindly defend me because match manipulation only happens at top tiers or so the common belief is.Anet mods will ignore the videos and forum mods will delete the evidence, some forum users will belittle players for calling out match manipulation even though the evidence is clear as day... its literally a haven if you choose to indulge.

this is where my saltiness on the subject comes from... Trying to do the right thing surrounded by players who dont and are allowed to do so in an environment that protects such players.

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@"sephiroth.4217"

Anet bans the accounts of players AFTER they investigate the matter and find evidence of them match manipulating.

Witch hunting players on the forums just because people "think" they're cheating is stupid. If the same players (especially high profile ones) that have gotten reported for match manipulating in the past are still playing on that specific account, it means they didn't do anything wrong.

Plus, there are plenty of examples when people have been caught. So, I don't get what the big fuss is about.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:@"sephiroth.4217"

Anet bans the accounts of players AFTER they investigate the matter and find evidence of them match manipulating.

Witch hunting players on the forums just because people "think" they're cheating is stupid. If the same players (especially high profile ones) that have gotten reported for match manipulating in the past are still playing on that specific account, it means they didn't do anything wrong.

Plus, there are plenty of examples when people have been caught. So, I don't get what the big fuss is about.

you're right... just like my friend who has been using ESP hacks for years cant be proven otherwise.

Think I might get it for myself, no big fuss.

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@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:yea no if u want to q solo do your thing let those that want to play with friends or coordinate as a duo to win do their thing. anet already tried it. it was terrible there was 0 structure no1 enjoyed the matches every game was a clown fiesta and they reverted it back. and for what lol? so those bitter about duos can stop crying? no thanks

If you wanted to SoloQ you can't just "do your thing" because the queues are merged together.

The "I just want to play with friends excuse" is little more than an overused victim card. A quick search on Twitch and you can find the majority of streamers DuoQing in the top 1% aren't coordinating any more than a SoloQ player, heck; they aren't even talking to eachother most the time. It's just creating a numbers advantage really, and that's hardly different from teamstacking in other competitive games.

And why does DuoQ have to be the standard for coordination and playing with friends? That's only guaranteeing one other person that you know to be on your team, or in comms. In a 5v5 gamemode that leaves at least 2 people to play alone every game, creating an unfair environment regardless. If the reptiles in the top 1% really wanted to play and coordinate with friends they'd have cried for TeamQ to come back and not DuoQ.

Not only would split TeamQ be more competitive, being closer to how ATs are played, but you'd be able to play with a full team of friends rather than just one other. You eliminate the ease of wintrading that comes with merged queues, you stop upsetting SoloQ players, and you're able to play ranked 5v5 at the same level of coordination.

Why DuoQ?

Lmao its like you don't even read but just reply for the sake of replying. I JUST SAID don't look at ranked from your own experiences but as a whole, instead you're using me specifically and how I choose to play as a model for everyone else? Just because me and my friends are competitive and coordinate doesn't mean most of those who duo are doing the same, the majority just want to play with friends. People who play a specific class or role want to make sure theyre duo'd with someone who compliments them(firebrand/scourge) which is why I said look at ranked as a whole instead of crying about the top 1% of players. Solo and duo should be in the same pool, if you dont like it then grab a duo partner and play to win you always have that option but just know those who win as duos will still win as solos, its just not fun because match quality is lower and anytime match quality sucks no one is happy. So who are you to tell all those players who enjoy duo they cant or shouldnt because you choose to only solo?As for team q I can't even take your comments seriously.

None of those matches are us stat padding in unranked or daily ats. We ONLY q as a team during monthly tournaments. You have to be a mad man to think 5 q in this game would work. There just isnt a playerbase for it.

Consider me a "mad man" then for expecting a TEAM queue for a TEAM game. I'm with multicolorhipster, "The population is too low!" and "I just want to play with friends!" are convenient excuses. Apparently, friends greater than 2 don't even exist!

You are also dead wrong about duo queues. Duo queues, like all merged queues, mess up matches. We see this time and time again every...single...season. Strict solo or 5-person queues do not. The distorting factor(duo) is taken out of the equation. Another thing, 5-mans cut out the player shenanigans. It's stuff you can actually CONTROL.

To hammer out my point about the inferiority of merged queues, imagine you had 4-man queues instead of duo. That means that, most of the time, the 4-man + 1 team will WIPE the opposing solo team.

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its funny that so many ppl equate duo's with match manipulation, I mean sure it happens, but I bet most of the time some one on the opposing side just gives up and afks. what would fix pvp the most is everyones attitude going from toxic to relaxed. there are problems, we should bring them up, but you don't gotta go all ballistic and cry bloody murder every minute of every day.

I blame rewards. everyone is on a constant dopamine high and our brain cells are turning to mush at an alarming rate.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:its funny that so many ppl equate duo's with match manipulation, I mean sure it happens, but I bet most of the time some one on the opposing side just gives up and afks. what would fix pvp the most is everyones attitude going from toxic to relaxed. there are problems, we should bring them up, but you don't gotta go all ballistic and cry bloody murder every minute of every day.Wintrading would be eradicated long ago if they permaban people who was caught but look at it now, absolutely dont care (NA top1 rofl)If you remember HoT expansion people were way less toxic, even when matches been like 500-100 people wrote GG in mapchat.What happened after PoF release? Legit worst balance gw2 ever had, matchmaking manipulation (they just dont care about it anymore), lack of any support of the game mode, bots(0 pips for losing and u have no bots anymore) . Most of people left and still leaving, I'm not surprised at all that people who is left are super mad about it.I blame rewards. everyone is on a constant dopamine high and our brain cells are turning to mush at an alarming rate.Anet and lack of care, not rewards

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@"JTGuevara.9018" said:Consider me a "mad man" then for expecting a TEAM queue for a TEAM game. I'm with multicolorhipster, "The population is too low!" and "I just want to play with friends!" are convenient excuses. Apparently, friends greater than 2 don't even exist!

You are also dead wrong about duo queues. Duo queues, like all merged queues, mess up matches. We see this time and time again every...single...season. Strict solo or 5-person queues do not. The distorting factor(duo) is taken out of the equation. Another thing, 5-mans cut out the player shenanigans. It's stuff you can actually CONTROL.

To hammer out my point about the inferiority of merged queues, imagine you had 4-man queues instead of duo. That means that, most of the time, the 4-man + 1 team will WIPE the opposing solo team.

Yes, exactly! It's like, they say "We just want to play with friendsssssss."

"Well okay Mr. Top10Snakeman, how about good ol' TeamQ? For sake of fairness and playing with the max amount of friends and coordination?"

"But the population isssss too low!"

So the obvious solution is to party with the least amount of friends possible; both top 10, and roll across the majority of uncoordinated SoloQ players, a lot of which are golds with no way to opt out of it.

Yeah, on second thought; I can see how that'd bring in players new and old. That definitely doesn't make it the least bit self-perpetuating. Kappa.

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@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@"JTGuevara.9018" said:Consider me a "mad man" then for expecting a TEAM queue for a TEAM game. I'm with multicolorhipster,
"The population is too low!"
and
"I just want to play with friends!"
are convenient excuses. Apparently, friends greater than 2 don't even exist!

You are also dead wrong about duo queues. Duo queues, like all merged queues, mess up matches. We see this time and time again every...single...season. Strict solo or 5-person queues do not. The distorting factor(duo) is taken out of the equation. Another thing, 5-mans cut out the player shenanigans. It's stuff you can actually CONTROL.

To hammer out my point about the inferiority of merged queues, imagine you had 4-man queues instead of duo. That means that, most of the time, the 4-man + 1 team will WIPE the opposing solo team.

Yes, exactly! It's like, they say
"We just want to play with friendsssssss."

"Well okay Mr. Top10Snakeman, how about good ol' TeamQ? For sake of fairness and playing with the max amount of friends and coordination?"

"But the population isssss too low!"

So the obvious solution is to party with the least amount of friends possible; both top 10, and roll across the majority of uncoordinated SoloQ players, a lot of which are golds with no way to opt out of it.

Yeah, on second thought; I can see how that'd bring in players new and old. That definitely doesn't make it the least bit self-perpetuating. Kappa.

Yup! Meanwhile, nothing changes. I've been on these forums for seasons and years and I've heard the same dam talking points, since season 1. It's like people don't want to learn. Or more accurately, duos like the current state of affairs because they were/are successful at milking the system for all it's worth. People can use the population excuse all they want, but they can't avoid facts. Merged queues ruin matches and it's a terrible matchmaking system.

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Duo legendary players cue late at night, Hmm this match making seems to be taking a long time. "No other legendary player available gets put with gold players. Player says "This match making is off." well maybe the solution is how about you and youre friend don't duo and fight each other to really see whos the legendary player instead. whats the fun in killing gold players when you can have all the fun you want fighting each other and maybe go a step close to balancing matches fairly instead of stacking the odd's in youre favour ? Nothing legendary about stacking the odds to youre advantage.

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There is ZERO logic for allowing duos to que with solos. They had it right from the start...a que for teams and a que for solo players. The current hybrid system is strictly a bandaid because they screwed up PvP and everyone left making que times too long for teams.

The current system is even worse though and defies logic. There's no way an algorithm can determine if a duo que has coms and synergistic builds, so the "weight" they give to duos has almost no chance of being accurate. Giving the wrong weight to XYZ duo will sink or swim a match more than anything else.

That being said, it's not even the biggest problem with the current system. The biggest problem is that they relax the algorithm based on wait times and, thus, it's super easy to game the system EVEN MORE with coordinated duos. Plus, they allow profession swapping so that's 2 people who can coordinate a change to give themselves even bigger advantages.

This isn't even debatable. Even Anet KNOWS who's going to win with almost 99% certainty when they match teams and that's why the reward is so low for winning. They know most matches are a waste of time before they even start. Granted...this happens with all solo players too, but duos amplify the problem and give them more ways to exploit.

It's just a corrupt system no matter how you look at it. Ironically, they made a good compromise by disallowing duos near the top of the leaderboard such that someone had to earn their spot solo at the top and guess what...we didn't see ANYBODY with 90% winrates. You still had some wintrading and ways to time ques to help, but it was much better representation of individual skill compared to what you have now which is a total sham.

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"I wanna play with friends!""You can do that in unranked anytime you want!""The matchmaker sucks!""It is basically the same one as in ranked, there are only a few changes in the variables.""But I want to climb rankings!""Buy it is an unfair system mixing everyone in one Q.""But... I WANNA PLAY WITH FRIENDS!!!"

€: I should mention the mess is based on the lack of on-demand tournaments. Once they come, remove duoQ. Until then, we shouldn't focus on hating each other but make Anet understand that gamemode is dearly missed.

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Generally I'd say that SoloQ makes for more balanced matches and high level Duos can distort the matchmaking a lot, because the only way to equalize the matches is to give them Gold Players, making for a bad experience for everyone (including the high lvl duo). However at this point the match quality is beyond dogshit anyway, so it probably doesn't matter anymore if we have Solo or Duo Q. Might aswell reintroduce full premades and get this kind of leaderboard again, maybe people are happy then:

bild-857526-1561738119.jpg.html

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@"Falan.1839" said:Generally I'd say that SoloQ makes for more balanced matches and high level Duos can distort the matchmaking a lot, because the only way to equalize the matches is to give them Gold Players, making for a bad experience for everyone (including the high lvl duo). However at this point the match quality is beyond kitten anyway, so it probably doesn't matter anymore if we have Solo or Duo Q. Might aswell reintroduce full premades and get this kind of leaderboard again, maybe people are happy then:

bild-857526-1561738119.jpg.html

Nope. Premades change nothing. Duo is basically a premade of 2 instead of 5. Yeah, it's less of a threat than a full team, that's why I think people are duped into supporting it. ("It's not that bad!") --tsk tsk--

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May be good to increase the pvp comunity and the quality of the pvp, allow 2, 3, 4 and 5 queue on ranked. The MMR just needs queue squads(2, 3, 4 or 5) against squads or send a message to the queued squads that didn't found any other squad to queue against(in this case, they need undo de squad).

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@"JETWING.2759" said:May be good to increase the pvp comunity and the quality of the pvp, allow 2, 3, 4 and 5 queue on ranked. The MMR just needs queue squads(2, 3, 4 or 5) against squads or send a message to the queued squads that didn't found any other squad to queue against(in this case, they need undo de squad).

I think merged queues should just be removed altogether. If you increase how many people can queue together and match them against SoloQ players, you just amplify all the problems DuoQ creates by 3x, 4x, or 5x respectively.

5v5 split TeamQ on the other hand would solve just about every problem, including the age-old "I just want to play with friends" excuse that Arenanet itself buys into.

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  • 6 months later...

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Gundam Style.8495" said:Yeah, because everyone is totally enjoying it now. Looking back at the earlier seasons we can see there are no players with 90% win rates, nor players of legendary rank in games with golds. What kind of kitten is causing this? Low population? It can't be that it is worsened when mysterious players dc at inconvenient moments, or PvP deities duo with "low rank friends" for "fun".

A lot of people I knew came back to the game once duo que was brought back. It's also way better for twitch streams when the streamer is having fun and talking to a friend. Solo que just pisses everyone off 24/7 cause we can go above and beyond, winning several 1vXs on a neutral node over the course of the match but still lose because the only person we can count on is ourselves and 95% of our pugs are incompetent.

Solo-que-only made match manipulation WAY worse and drove the PvP population into the ground. And this is coming from someone who prefers to/primarily solo ques at high ratings.

Low population =/= high win rates. Skill = high win rates.

Watch some of Naru's or Helio's streams (or any other top player) and you can clearly see them carrying matches.

agree 100%.there is NO way to stop match manipulation other then permanently baning people.If they care they will find a way to cheat, shooting your playerbase in the foot just so trolls get shoot too is stupid.tryhards play duos to have better quality games, casuals due with friends/guildies for shits and giggles.removing duoQ wont fix anything with match manipulation, if anything it will get worse.

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