Disable switching toons before match starts — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Disable switching toons before match starts

YtseJam.9784YtseJam.9784 Member ✭✭

I feel it is really unfair that people are allowed to switch toons at the beginning of the match before everyone hits "ready", bypassing the Matchmaking algorithm part of matching to keep the duplicate professions to a minimum. Every time someone switches classes, they switch from a crappy class to one of those "meta" OP classes/builds from metabattle, manipulating the matchmaking algorithm. I constantly end up fighting 2 engis, 2 scourges, 2 mirages, etc, because of the switching and it's nearly impossible to win matches when something like this is allowed.

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Comments

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes but when you go against a very counter-heavy comp, you should be able to change. It's not a luck game.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2019

    @YtseJam.9784 said:
    I feel it is really unfair that people are allowed to switch toons at the beginning of the match before everyone hits "ready", bypassing the Matchmaking algorithm part of matching to keep the duplicate professions to a minimum. Every time someone switches classes, they switch from a crappy class to one of those "meta" OP classes/builds from metabattle, manipulating the matchmaking algorithm. I constantly end up fighting 2 engis, 2 scourges, 2 mirages, etc, because of the switching and it's nearly impossible to win matches when something like this is allowed.

    Not denying that there are ppl using it to manipulate teamcomps into their favor, on the other side when you not allow class switching before matchstart you punish everyone being able to multiclass and switch to something for a better teamcomp. That can't be the solution.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    match maker cant tell the difference between a DH and FB which is why we sort of need it.

    2 reapers face off against 2 scourges for example.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • Sojourner.4621Sojourner.4621 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DoomNexus.5324 said:
    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 I always read "the community voted this or that". Honestly I've literally never seen or heard about any official poll ever since I've started the game 7 years ago.

    Because I'm almost never on the forums, only very occasionally when I'm at work and got nothing to do atm.

    The second of these is definitely a factor, but another factor is the forum migration. Many of these polls are on the old forums, which would ergo be impossible to pin. When they were up in official capacity they were pinned. I was here for this particular vote, though I had no opinion one way or another. I can assure you that at least this poll did happen and that character swapping during the lead-up was pretty well agreed upon.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2019

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    The community voted to keep the ability to swap classes prematch. In addition to the reasons people stated already (fixing a bad comp, or wanting to exploit a weakness in the enemy team comp), people also sometimes like to play a different character in PvE while they wait for their match. People often have different characters for PvE and PvP, so this allows them that flexibility.

    There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one. But I think the positives outweigh the negatives overall.

    hey ben what if class switching was disabled 30 seconds to match start? sounds like a decent middle ground to me, idk.

    edit
    as in everyone is already in game.

  • YtseJam.9784YtseJam.9784 Member ✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    The community voted to keep the ability to swap classes prematch. In addition to the reasons people stated already (fixing a bad comp, or wanting to exploit a weakness in the enemy team comp), people also sometimes like to play a different character in PvE while they wait for their match. People often have different characters for PvE and PvP, so this allows them that flexibility.

    There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one. But I think the positives outweigh the negatives overall.

    I think something like that should be ok for unranked which is more casual, but it shouldn't be allowed for ranked matches. From everything I read in this PVP forum, there is a lot of manipulation going on already in ranked matches and things should be a bit more strict when it comes to ranked. I've been playing this game for over 6 years and decided to give PvP a try this season for the legendary back piece and achievements. The only thing I've noticed is a lot of manipulation and toxicity in ranked matches and it is not an enjoyable or pleasant experience and can't wait to be done with the achievements to not do it again.

  • I think that in ranked pvp, we should be allowed to choose our entire team if we like, but not be allowed to switch classes. It isn't right to get a pvp rank that is based sometime solely on being placed in bad teams who then manipulate the match on top of it by switching classes.

    The reason we shouldn't be allowed to switch class is because the matchmaker creates teams based on class and it seems to be exploited every time I join. We end up with only "meta" classes when what signed up was all "non-meta."

    Unranked could be "anything goes" as it's supposed to be a learning arena - doesn't make sense you can choose your team there but not in ranked. Switching anytime til match starts seems fine there where it's primarily for fun and for practice.

  • ChromaKey.9763ChromaKey.9763 Member
    edited June 27, 2019

    There are a lot of times in ranked matches that people AFK to make your team fail. The sometimes just AFK and sometimes just disconnect after the match starts. And yes, I've reported multiple times, but from what people in the team had said when this happens, is that nothing is done about these players. I once had the same AFKer twice in a row after everyone reported.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2019

    @ChromaKey.9763 said:
    There are a lot of times in ranked matches that people AFK to make your team fail. The sometimes just AFK and sometimes just disconnect after the match starts. And yes, I've reported multiple times, but from what people in the team had said when this happens, is that nothing is done about these players. I once had the same AFKer twice in a row after everyone reported.

    Totally off topic.

    To the OP.

    Class switching is necessary. Sometimes matchmaker throws on 2 reapers or 2 supportd, when that happens, I switch class.

    I never like to scourge without good support so if I see a support class I switch to scourge.

    Instead of complaining about it why don't you also, learn multiple classes and start switching?

    Tho, ime, class switching is rarely utilized.

  • DoomNexus.5324DoomNexus.5324 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sojourner.4621 said:

    @DoomNexus.5324 said:
    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 I always read "the community voted this or that". Honestly I've literally never seen or heard about any official poll ever since I've started the game 7 years ago.

    Because I'm almost never on the forums, only very occasionally when I'm at work and got nothing to do atm.

    The second of these is definitely a factor, but another factor is the forum migration. Many of these polls are on the old forums, which would ergo be impossible to pin. When they were up in official capacity they were pinned. I was here for this particular vote, though I had no opinion one way or another. I can assure you that at least this poll did happen and that character swapping during the lead-up was pretty well agreed upon.

    Well I won't deny this poll actually happened and I don't argue against its outcome. It's just that I'd also like to vote on such things in the future as well but if I don't get notified I'll probably miss it and I'm almost 100% certain that only a very small portion of players regularly check forums. So I'd probably not be alone or in the minority.

    I mean there are tons of topics where the be-all-end-all shut down argument is "there has been a poll about this" and I find it really frustrating that I couldn't share my view because I can't or don't want be active enough on the forums to constantly browse and check for new polls (they aren't in a dedicated subforum either so looking them up is also a pain) but have to endure the decisions that were made based on them.

  • Sojourner.4621Sojourner.4621 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2019

    @DoomNexus.5324 said:

    @Sojourner.4621 said:

    @DoomNexus.5324 said:
    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 I always read "the community voted this or that". Honestly I've literally never seen or heard about any official poll ever since I've started the game 7 years ago.

    Because I'm almost never on the forums, only very occasionally when I'm at work and got nothing to do atm.

    The second of these is definitely a factor, but another factor is the forum migration. Many of these polls are on the old forums, which would ergo be impossible to pin. When they were up in official capacity they were pinned. I was here for this particular vote, though I had no opinion one way or another. I can assure you that at least this poll did happen and that character swapping during the lead-up was pretty well agreed upon.

    Well I won't deny this poll actually happened and I don't argue against its outcome. It's just that I'd also like to vote on such things in the future as well but if I don't get notified I'll probably miss it and I'm almost 100% certain that only a very small portion of players regularly check forums. So I'd probably not be alone or in the minority.

    I mean there are tons of topics where the be-all-end-all shut down argument is "there has been a poll about this" and I find it really frustrating that I couldn't share my view because I can't or don't want be active enough on the forums to constantly browse and check for new polls (they aren't in a dedicated subforum either so looking them up is also a pain) but have to endure the decisions that were made based on them.

    They have always been pinned while the poll is active, they also are listed in the dev feed at the top of the page when you log on to the forums so that you don't even have to browse through the individual sub-forums to find them. They also tend to be up for about two weeks at a time. If someone is not willing to log in to the forums once every two weeks and check that feed up top (which includes using the dots to scroll through it in case dev comments pushed it off the front couple slides) then that's on the player and not ANet. They're not obligated to email or personally reach out to everyone who couldn't be bothered to make the effort.

  • ZeroTheCat.2684ZeroTheCat.2684 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2019

    @Daishi.6027 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    The community voted to keep the ability to swap classes prematch. In addition to the reasons people stated already (fixing a bad comp, or wanting to exploit a weakness in the enemy team comp), people also sometimes like to play a different character in PvE while they wait for their match. People often have different characters for PvE and PvP, so this allows them that flexibility.

    There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one. But I think the positives outweigh the negatives overall.

    I recall this, but have a vague concept of time regarding it, and correct me if I'm wrong; but this was quite a while ago wasn't it? Like HoT Days?

    The biggest issue I mostly see is if the balance isn't accommodating for it, and/or doesn't remain consistent across game builds; the possible issues presented by character swapping can sometimes be inflated.

    Again I can't recall how far back such a change was, and although I don't think a seasonal "re-vote" is reasonable, or makes any sense. I don't think a "re-vote" from time to time would be a bad option since as time changes so does the game, and what made sense, or was healthy before may not be so now.

    On the other hand I'm staunch believer of "being right isn't a democracy", and for PvP in particular, I would implore decisions be made objectively for the health of the game. In spite of whatever players vote on.

    Yeah here we go again... ”The commuinty voted x amount of years ago bla bla..” The same lame exuse that is always used right now to justify that they don’t give a kitten about this game mode. The fact that they keep pointing to several years old polls is a mockery to the whole community..

    Edit: with that said. Changing this now is a bad idea. The matchmaking right now is so f-d up you need the ability to change the class to not get totally ripped off during matchmaking. So fix the matchmaking first then disable this.

  • The issue with character swapping is that it's not obvious it's a thing and the algorithm uses it when matching people

    I just learned about it now and i've been pvping on and off for years. And then the orher problem is that the matchmaker uses it and os obviously broken. Gonna have some fun with this later.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    The issue with character swapping is that it's not obvious it's a thing and the algorithm uses it when matching people

    I just learned about it now and i've been pvping on and off for years. And then the orher problem is that the matchmaker uses it and os obviously broken. Gonna have some fun with this later.

    The pvp matchmaker does not use it.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    The pvp matchmaker does not use it.

    Scroll up to what Ben said or just play a few games. The matchmaker most definitely uses it.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • Miyu.8137Miyu.8137 Member ✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    The community voted to keep the ability to swap classes prematch. In addition to the reasons people stated already (fixing a bad comp, or wanting to exploit a weakness in the enemy team comp), people also sometimes like to play a different character in PvE while they wait for their match. People often have different characters for PvE and PvP, so this allows them that flexibility.

    There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one. But I think the positives outweigh the negatives overall.

    People also voted for solo queue only, yet we have a duo queue allowed :-). Why not give it a try for a season or two? Would be interesting to see how that works.

  • Bazooka.3590Bazooka.3590 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    The community voted to keep the ability to swap classes prematch. In addition to the reasons people stated already (fixing a bad comp, or wanting to exploit a weakness in the enemy team comp), people also sometimes like to play a different character in PvE while they wait for their match. People often have different characters for PvE and PvP, so this allows them that flexibility.

    There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one. But I think the positives outweigh the negatives overall.

    Agree. Sadly it's a must have with this catastrophic piece of kitten match maker what you guys can't fix since the beginning of the game.
    And when I add all to this the catastrophic class/build balance the result is miserable and total intolerable.

  • Just wait till you end up with something like, double deadeye, double scourge + rev against a metacomp. You'll be glad you can reroll.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Ouk.5914Ouk.5914 Member ✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    The community voted to keep the ability to swap classes prematch. In addition to the reasons people stated already (fixing a bad comp, or wanting to exploit a weakness in the enemy team comp), people also sometimes like to play a different character in PvE while they wait for their match. People often have different characters for PvE and PvP, so this allows them that flexibility.

    There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one. But I think the positives outweigh the negatives overall.

    why do we have the system reading a Core Guardian, DH, and Fb all being the same in roles? I seen Games where we'll get Core Ranger vs Enemy Soul Beast.

    Can we Do something with Class match ups? Another Example would be having 1 Necro On enemy team but then your Team having 2 necros. Stuff like this is what really kills the match making more then what it already is.

  • Allarius.5670Allarius.5670 Member ✭✭✭

    If the game is free to change overtime, I don't know why anyone would think the player base and their preferences doesn't. Maybe it'd be better to revisit game defining player polls on an annual basis to keep up with the times. Claiming the player poll as an excuse but being unwilling to revisit player preference feels ... bad? If we are going to be democratic about it, then be democratic about it. If there are other reasons then don't use the poll as an excuse, just be straight up with it.

  • slasc.3260slasc.3260 Member ✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    The community voted to keep the ability to swap classes prematch. In addition to the reasons people stated already (fixing a bad comp, or wanting to exploit a weakness in the enemy team comp), people also sometimes like to play a different character in PvE while they wait for their match. People often have different characters for PvE and PvP, so this allows them that flexibility.

    There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one. But I think the positives outweigh the negatives overall.

    If this is intended behavior, I would love to see a shortcut character swap button introduced. I don't know what is involved in that, but it would:
    a.) lend some legitimacy to this feature (which, until I saw this thread, I had always thought was a bit of exploitation as well)
    b.) help streamline this process to avoid long loading screens which can cause a player to show up late if they swap.

  • Chilli.2976Chilli.2976 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    The community voted to keep the ability to swap classes prematch.

    Ben this was a very long time ago, maybe its time to do a new poll.

  • rwolf.9571rwolf.9571 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2019

    @Chilli.2976 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    The community voted to keep the ability to swap classes prematch.

    Ben this was a very long time ago, maybe its time to do a new poll.

    Community helped killed their own game mode.

  • @rwolf.9571 said:
    Community helped killed their own game mode.

    Idk about that. It's more like a teensy percentage of the community.

    Tinfoil hats on, third eyes open. I got a question for you. If that small percentage of that community is willing to manipulate the game mode to death, would it really be beyond them to rig a poll that benefits them in doing it?

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    The pvp matchmaker does not use it.

    Scroll up to what Ben said or just play a few games. The matchmaker most definitely uses it.

    "There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one."

    Aw^ This right?

    Then it just leaves me with more questions.
    We've all been in games where one team will have double of one class, while the other team has none of that class.

    Or two scourges on one team
    and two necros on the other.
    Same with Rangers/Soulbeasts.

    Never understood, why they just wouldn't split them between the teams.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • ZhouX.8742ZhouX.8742 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2019

    @YtseJam.9784 said:
    I feel it is really unfair that people are allowed to switch toons at the beginning of the match before everyone hits "ready", bypassing the Matchmaking algorithm part of matching to keep the duplicate professions to a minimum. Every time someone switches classes, they switch from a crappy class to one of those "meta" OP classes/builds from metabattle, manipulating the matchmaking algorithm. I constantly end up fighting 2 engis, 2 scourges, 2 mirages, etc, because of the switching and it's nearly impossible to win matches when something like this is allowed.

    The matchmaking system isn't for the classes or class matchups though, you're talking about matchmaking but that's for the account level matchmaking based on the "rating" (even though in this population it's heavily mixed). I could be wrong here though, and anyways, if people are doing this to "bypass" matchmaking algorithms in some way, I promise most are just using this ability to swap for class matchup situationals than abusing something. Most people just win trade to get ahead in ranked so it's more blatant than you think and even then that's such a small percentage that it's irrelevant anyway.

    A solution would be character selection DURING the prep phase after matchmaking has occurred and people have "locked in" their characters similar to LoL , but this presents so many more problems outside of just the matchmaking and char selection (is the char even rdy for pvp with runes, amulet, etc).

    It's actually encouraged to be able to swap , because usually people who swap are people who actually know the class matchups... It's not a luck game as someone has stated, and while it's RNG at this point given the population in terms of matchmaking, to be stuck being RNG'd into a counter comp on TOP OF a low population and being RNG queued against people who may be a massively higher division than you already?

    No, swapping before the match starts is a good thing and I encourage it so people actually understand what classes best other classes. This isn't a game of just being RNG paired with somebody and deal with it, you need to know what you can kill and can't and adjust based on within the timer window before the match starts.

    Either way, there has to be some way to adjust prior to a match... I'm sorry but that is only healthy for the PvP game prep phase as it currently as a whole and removing it puts you behind 2 RNG pigeonholes and greatly reduces the QoL especially as you get towards the top end of the divisions and you start playing better players more consistently.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    The pvp matchmaker does not use it.

    Scroll up to what Ben said or just play a few games. The matchmaker most definitely uses it.

    "There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one."

    Aw^ This right?

    Then it just leaves me with more questions.
    We've all been in games where one team will have double of one class, while the other team has none of that class.

    Or two scourges on one team
    and two necros on the other.
    Same with Rangers/Soulbeasts.

    Never understood, why they just wouldn't split them between the teams.

    I wonder if people swap chars as the map is being selected so you think the matchmaker put 2 of x on one team.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    Bring back Impending Dhuum.
    No FotM for me, only thief, weak or strong.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    The pvp matchmaker does not use it.

    Scroll up to what Ben said or just play a few games. The matchmaker most definitely uses it.

    "There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one."

    Aw^ This right?

    Then it just leaves me with more questions.
    We've all been in games where one team will have double of one class, while the other team has none of that class.

    Or two scourges on one team
    and two necros on the other.
    Same with Rangers/Soulbeasts.

    Never understood, why they just wouldn't split them between the teams.

    I wonder if people swap chars as the map is being selected so you think the matchmaker put 2 of x on one team.

    Huh? As the map is being selected?

    So your suggesting, that after they picked the map, and its spinning to pick which one, without even seeing what the enemy team is playing, they log out to switch characters.

    1-It doesnt make sense to switch characters before you see what your up against.
    2-who has the time to log out in that short space of time?

    Your scenario is highly unlikely for as many times as I've seen this happen.

    Imo, it's more than likely, the matchmaker want one team to lose--gotta keep that 50 percent win/loss ratio.
    That's the only reason I can see why one team has stronger classes (meta POF classes) and one has Core classes.

    If they wanted more balanced fights, you would see classes spread between the two teams much more equally.
    They must do it to some degree. I don't know if I've ever seen two firebrands on one team. And it's not because firebrand isn't a popular class.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2019

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    The pvp matchmaker does not use it.

    Scroll up to what Ben said or just play a few games. The matchmaker most definitely uses it.

    "There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one."

    Aw^ This right?

    Then it just leaves me with more questions.
    We've all been in games where one team will have double of one class, while the other team has none of that class.

    Or two scourges on one team
    and two necros on the other.
    Same with Rangers/Soulbeasts.

    Never understood, why they just wouldn't split them between the teams.

    I wonder if people swap chars as the map is being selected so you think the matchmaker put 2 of x on one team.

    Huh? As the map is being selected?

    So your suggesting, that after they picked the map, and its spinning to pick which one, without even seeing what the enemy team is playing, they log out to switch characters.

    1-It doesnt make sense to switch characters before you see what your up against.
    2-who has the time to log out in that short space of time?

    Your scenario is highly unlikely for as many times as I've seen this happen.

    Imo, it's more than likely, the matchmaker want one team to lose--gotta keep that 50 percent win/loss ratio.
    That's the only reason I can see why one team has stronger classes (meta POF classes) and one has Core classes.

    If they wanted more balanced fights, you would see classes spread between the two teams much more equally.
    They must do it to some degree. I don't know if I've ever seen two firebrands on one team. And it's not because firebrand isn't a popular class.

    Like when I am setting up some rp scenes in pve world and I am queued, I see the map pop up and go to the char select to be on what I want.

    I got decent internet and a decent computer so I make it in the match as if nothing happened.

    an edit I almost exclusively play thief in pvp so I don't care who I fight.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    Bring back Impending Dhuum.
    No FotM for me, only thief, weak or strong.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    The pvp matchmaker does not use it.

    Scroll up to what Ben said or just play a few games. The matchmaker most definitely uses it.

    "There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one."

    Aw^ This right?

    Then it just leaves me with more questions.
    We've all been in games where one team will have double of one class, while the other team has none of that class.

    Or two scourges on one team
    and two necros on the other.
    Same with Rangers/Soulbeasts.

    Never understood, why they just wouldn't split them between the teams.

    I wonder if people swap chars as the map is being selected so you think the matchmaker put 2 of x on one team.

    Huh? As the map is being selected?

    So your suggesting, that after they picked the map, and its spinning to pick which one, without even seeing what the enemy team is playing, they log out to switch characters.

    1-It doesnt make sense to switch characters before you see what your up against.
    2-who has the time to log out in that short space of time?

    Your scenario is highly unlikely for as many times as I've seen this happen.

    Imo, it's more than likely, the matchmaker want one team to lose--gotta keep that 50 percent win/loss ratio.
    That's the only reason I can see why one team has stronger classes (meta POF classes) and one has Core classes.

    If they wanted more balanced fights, you would see classes spread between the two teams much more equally.
    They must do it to some degree. I don't know if I've ever seen two firebrands on one team. And it's not because firebrand isn't a popular class.

    Like when I am setting up some rp scenes in pve world and I am queued, I see the map pop up and go to the char select to be on what I want.

    I got decent internet and a decent computer so I make it in the match as if nothing happened.

    an edit I almost exclusively play thief in pvp so I don't care who I fight.

    I see what your saying. You are in the minority as far as pvp players go.
    Most I know, don't pve while they are waiting 2-3 mins for the next round.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    The pvp matchmaker does not use it.

    Scroll up to what Ben said or just play a few games. The matchmaker most definitely uses it.

    "There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one."

    Aw^ This right?

    Then it just leaves me with more questions.
    We've all been in games where one team will have double of one class, while the other team has none of that class.

    Or two scourges on one team
    and two necros on the other.
    Same with Rangers/Soulbeasts.

    Never understood, why they just wouldn't split them between the teams.

    There's definitely an attempt to mirror team comps, but like you say; it's far from perfect. That's the gist of it.

    The double scourge swap strat is a a perfect example. You queue double scourge to practically guarantee a reaper/scourge to the enemy team, and then you swap to one of the side-noders that absolutely pummel necro; especially when that necro is without a FB or part of FB + Necro pug. The lengths to which people will go to create an unfair advantage in this game are a bit ridiculous.

    As to double SLB. Well that's just because some of the side-noders, SLB included; are really unbalanced. Ime, it's no more or less common to see two Holos, or two Heralds than it is two Soulbeasts. There's just more people playing these classes.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    The community voted to keep the ability to swap classes prematch. In addition to the reasons people stated already (fixing a bad comp, or wanting to exploit a weakness in the enemy team comp), people also sometimes like to play a different character in PvE while they wait for their match. People often have different characters for PvE and PvP, so this allows them that flexibility.

    There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one. But I think the positives outweigh the negatives overall.

    Agreed. If you lock people to specific classes you can end up with far worse comps more likely. Like Double Thief. Or you queue on Support Firebrand but you end up paired with a Support Tempest. Double support isn't very good but you'd be locked into it.

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 actually for fun can you tell us the win ratio of ranked teams with two thieves on them?

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Vague Memory.2817Vague Memory.2817 Member ✭✭✭

    I think the increased massive class imbalances has made this problem much worse than when the vote was taken. Having class specs that absolutely dominate a complete PvP aspect like cc, condition generation, obscene power damage, unkillable bunker etc. makes double that spec in a team almost unbearable. Especially if the opposing team comp randomly has no good counter to it.

  • Loki.1763Loki.1763 Member ✭✭

    A lot of people have a lot of gripes with the state of PvP these days. While many gripes are L2P issues, there are just as many genuine complaints. Rather than be sulky and salty, why don't we as a community put together our Top 10 or Top 5 issues for Anet to run a poll? Keeping in mind the issue must be something you can vote yes/no.

    If we can present Anet with a list of priority issues, we have more of a chance of them being addressed. As opposed to our current system of crying boo-hoo on a multitude of different threads.

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    match maker cant tell the difference between a DH and FB which is why we sort of need it.

    2 reapers face off against 2 scourges for example.

    The thread is about switching professions at the beginning of the match - not about being hard locked into your specialisation or build.

    I agree with the original poster, you must play with what you que with, but can change your build before the match starts

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    The community voted to keep the ability to swap classes prematch. In addition to the reasons people stated already (fixing a bad comp, or wanting to exploit a weakness in the enemy team comp), people also sometimes like to play a different character in PvE while they wait for their match. People often have different characters for PvE and PvP, so this allows them that flexibility.

    There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one. But I think the positives outweigh the negatives overall.

    When and how did the community vote for this? I am pretty sure i wasnt included in this vote

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZhouX.8742 said:

    @YtseJam.9784 said:
    I feel it is really unfair that people are allowed to switch toons at the beginning of the match before everyone hits "ready", bypassing the Matchmaking algorithm part of matching to keep the duplicate professions to a minimum. Every time someone switches classes, they switch from a crappy class to one of those "meta" OP classes/builds from metabattle, manipulating the matchmaking algorithm. I constantly end up fighting 2 engis, 2 scourges, 2 mirages, etc, because of the switching and it's nearly impossible to win matches when something like this is allowed.

    The matchmaking system isn't for the classes or class matchups though, you're talking about matchmaking but that's for the account level matchmaking based on the "rating" (even though in this population it's heavily mixed). I could be wrong here though, and anyways, if people are doing this to "bypass" matchmaking algorithms in some way, I promise most are just using this ability to swap for class matchup situationals than abusing something. Most people just win trade to get ahead in ranked so it's more blatant than you think and even then that's such a small percentage that it's irrelevant anyway.

    A solution would be character selection DURING the prep phase after matchmaking has occurred and people have "locked in" their characters similar to LoL , but this presents so many more problems outside of just the matchmaking and char selection (is the char even rdy for pvp with runes, amulet, etc).

    It's actually encouraged to be able to swap , because usually people who swap are people who actually know the class matchups... It's not a luck game as someone has stated, and while it's RNG at this point given the population in terms of matchmaking, to be stuck being RNG'd into a counter comp on TOP OF a low population and being RNG queued against people who may be a massively higher division than you already?

    No, swapping before the match starts is a good thing and I encourage it so people actually understand what classes best other classes. This isn't a game of just being RNG paired with somebody and deal with it, you need to know what you can kill and can't and adjust based on within the timer window before the match starts.

    Either way, there has to be some way to adjust prior to a match... I'm sorry but that is only healthy for the PvP game prep phase as it currently as a whole and removing it puts you behind 2 RNG pigeonholes and greatly reduces the QoL especially as you get towards the top end of the divisions and you start playing better players more consistently.

    You could also make it one step easier: only let players que in ranked games with a meta profession (soul beast, spell breaker holo, rev, scourge and mirrage) that will take all the need for RNG out as well as not needing to character swop...

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @James.1065 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    match maker cant tell the difference between a DH and FB which is why we sort of need it.

    2 reapers face off against 2 scourges for example.

    The thread is about switching professions at the beginning of the match - not about being hard locked into your specialisation or build.

    I know.

    You misread my comment quite badly to be honest.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • pukish.5784pukish.5784 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    This information is path of light.
    And now I need to find the time zone when to join ranked queue.
    To minimize my bad player skills and awareness.

  • Maddog.3716Maddog.3716 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @James.1065 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    match maker cant tell the difference between a DH and FB which is why we sort of need it.

    2 reapers face off against 2 scourges for example.

    The thread is about switching professions at the beginning of the match - not about being hard locked into your specialisation or build.

    I agree with the original poster, you must play with what you que with, but can change your build before the match starts

    I completely agree. You should try to move away from meta if you feel weak instead of jumping to another meta build. It will be a small droplet of variety.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @James.1065 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    The community voted to keep the ability to swap classes prematch. In addition to the reasons people stated already (fixing a bad comp, or wanting to exploit a weakness in the enemy team comp), people also sometimes like to play a different character in PvE while they wait for their match. People often have different characters for PvE and PvP, so this allows them that flexibility.

    There are of course some negatives, as you mentioned. Bypassing the matchmaker being a big one. But I think the positives outweigh the negatives overall.

    When and how did the community vote for this? I am pretty sure i wasnt included in this vote

    Season 5 or 6.

    Shortly after the removal of team queue.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    Just remember kids, this is your pvp checklist

    1. Check the Class power rankings.
    2. Queue up as the weakest class or the class that your preferred class counters.
    3. Matchmaker will try to put one of those classes on other team
    4. Switch classes when map loads
    5. PROFIT.

    Don't worry the community VOTED for it and ANET approved it.

    And your "excuse" is always "i wanted to PVE on "insert class here" but pvp on "insert class here"

    Oh and just for reference i personally voted for "No class switching" in the poll.

    I personally only wvw now but always hope for pvp improvements.

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